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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
In the garden, and RAIN!!!!
Tuesday, June 22, 2021 10:57 AM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Tuesday, June 22, 2021 1:43 PM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
BRENDA
Tuesday, June 22, 2021 3:41 PM
JEWELSTAITEFAN
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Quote:SIGNYM: Jeezus, JSF, you're lecturing to people who know all about refrigerants, refrigerators, all kinds of coolers (including Peltier coolers), humidity and percent moisture measurements I think I know how to condense moisture and dry gases and how to deal with humidity and moisture calculations for.... home HVAC The fact is that if you cool air but do not reach dew point (ie water does not condense out) relative humidity goes up. JSF: Well, jeez. If you already understood that the Dew Point at the coils is 40 degrees F, and you already understand that the output of the A/C is 60 degrees F with an RH of 70%, which when warmed to 70 degrees F is RH 35%, and that Air Conditioners and Dehumidifiers are functionally the same, then I do not understand why you have been posting as if you are dumbfounded by the concepts. How do I "know" this? Whether the coil condenses out moisture or not depends on the moisture content and temperature of the air coming in, and whether the coil reaches the dew point depends on the efficiency of the AC. But according to the AC guy who came to replace our compressor, you can generally expect a 20 degree drop in temp across the evap coils. So if the temp outside in 100 and the dew point is 40, then the temp coming at the coils is 80F ... far far away from any possible condensation. And if the temp drops at night to 80, and the AC manages to cool the air to 60F, then the temp is STILL above the dew point of 40F. Right?
Quote:SIGNYM: Jeezus, JSF, you're lecturing to people who know all about refrigerants, refrigerators, all kinds of coolers (including Peltier coolers), humidity and percent moisture measurements I think I know how to condense moisture and dry gases and how to deal with humidity and moisture calculations for.... home HVAC The fact is that if you cool air but do not reach dew point (ie water does not condense out) relative humidity goes up. JSF: Well, jeez. If you already understood that the Dew Point at the coils is 40 degrees F, and you already understand that the output of the A/C is 60 degrees F with an RH of 70%, which when warmed to 70 degrees F is RH 35%, and that Air Conditioners and Dehumidifiers are functionally the same, then I do not understand why you have been posting as if you are dumbfounded by the concepts.
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Ok, let me put it this way: Dew point is like temperature: It's a measurement of outdoor air, and has nothing to do with any specific air conditioner. If you go to wunderground.com and do a search on any los angeles zip code, and call up the 10-day forecast, you'll see lines curving up and down for temperature, "feels like", and DEW POINT. If the temperature is 100F and the dew point is 40F, you would have to cool the air all the way down to 40F to get condensation. And unless water is condensed, moisture content will not be reduced. Is a normal AC unit capable of cooling air from 100F to 40F? OTOH, if the temperature is 80F and the dew point is 65F, what are the chances that an AC unit will condense water out of the air? I DID appreciate the discussion, tho.
Quote:Is a normal AC unit capable of cooling air from 100F to 40F?
Quote:OTOH, if the temperature is 80F and the dew point is 65F, what are the chances that an AC unit will condense water out of the air?
Tuesday, June 22, 2021 5:20 PM
Tuesday, June 22, 2021 7:48 PM
Quote:But kiki already admitted she measured 59 degrees F ... In a 70 degree space, the output of a working A/C should be 60 degrees.
Quote:When
Quote: the boiling point of the refrigerant is 40 degrees F, then any air ... which is forced past this Evaporator tube will continue away from the Evaporator at 40 degrees
Quote:Upon reviewing your post, I see you may be confused about Dew Point of A/C output air. The Dew Point of air coming out of a working A/C cannot be 100% RH.
Quote:It was the only calibrated Standard Barometer our airline had in SoCal. I don't recall if the next nearest was SFO, Denver, or Houston.
Tuesday, June 22, 2021 8:31 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1KIKI: JSF - you're missing some vital information. Not all ACs use the refrigerant you listed. A different refrigerant would have a different 'boiling point'. And no, I didn't check my AC unit to see what it uses, because I would have to move it and it's great exactly where it is. But anything you say about boiling point makes an assumption about the refrigerant.
Quote: Another caveat is that 'boiling point' changes with pressure. There is not ONE boiling point for any liquid-vapor transition, there is a continuous series of boiling points depending on pressure.
Quote: Here are some examples of BP curves for different compounds at different pressures: Real life examples of boiling point changing with pressure are 1) water boiling at a lower temperature in Denver, CO due to lower atmospheric pressure, and 2) the increased temperature water boils at in a pressure cooker. I don't know what pressure you're assuming the refrigerant is boiling at, but it's an assumption.
Quote: Another, and very bad, assumption is that AC units routinely ice over. That's only true if the refrigerant is low. That leads to an even lower pressure after the capillary tube, which causes the temp to drop below its normal functional level. But it's not a normal thing. It means something is broken.
Quote: Quote:But kiki already admitted she measured 59 degrees F ... In a 70 degree space, the output of a working A/C should be 60 degrees. So, my measurement was what you claimed it should be, and the dew point - which is around 55F - is still below the AC output. I'm glad you agree. The AC output does not bring the air temp below the dew point, therefore moisture does not condense out! Quote:When IF Quote: the boiling point of the refrigerant is 40 degrees F, then any air ... which is forced past this Evaporator tube will continue away from the Evaporator at 40 degrees Only if heat transfer is 100% efficient with regards to the entire mass of air going past the evaporator coils. Quote:Upon reviewing your post, I see you may be confused about Dew Point of A/C output air. The Dew Point of air coming out of a working A/C cannot be 100% RH. Dew point is the TEMPERATURE at which moisture condenses out of the air. So dew point is reported in degrees, not in relative humidity percent. Or, to put it another way, dew point is the TEMPERATURE at which air becomes saturated with water vapor ie = the TEMPERATURE at which the RH is 100%. FWIW I measured the backside of the evaporator coils 3X in 3 places and got the same measurement. You haven't really shown me that my evap coils go down to 40F because 1) you made a lot of assumptions to come up with that figure - including the type of refrigerant, the level of fill, and the pressure in the evap coils; and 2) you had to throw out actual data to maintain your claim. In addition, you seem to think that there's 100% heat transfer of all the air passing by the coils, and that that air will reach your (assumed) 40F. My measurements show that the coils themselves were at 59F, probably in temperature equilibrium with the air exiting past them. In that case, indeed, the air never got below the dew point.
Quote: Quote:It was the only calibrated Standard Barometer our airline had in SoCal. I don't recall if the next nearest was SFO, Denver, or Houston. JEEZE!!! What airline was THAT? I certainly don't want to fly it! IMO it had dangerously inadequate capabilities for basic important things!
Tuesday, June 22, 2021 9:03 PM
Tuesday, June 22, 2021 11:16 PM
6IXSTRINGJACK
Quote:Originally posted by 1KIKI: It actually DOES keep the bedroom cool, which is a good thing for sleeping! and by experience, I can testify it's far far better than not having anything at all. Anyway, gonna' start my day. ta ta for now
Wednesday, June 23, 2021 2:02 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 1KIKI: JSF - why are you stuck on 40F? You yourself cited a SPECIFIC refrigerant "R-134a". But not all refrigerants 'boil' at 40F, and there are a variety of refrigerants used in AC units. So, unless you can quote me some ASTM standard (or equivalent) that says all compressor/ refrigerant combinations must be designed to an evap coil temp of 40F, I'm going to ignore your 40F mania. Aside from thinking that cooling coil icing is a normal function of any kind of refrigeration (it isn't), you missed one very important fact: As the air passing the coils is cooled down, the coils are warmed up. While coils, at the very, very entry point of the refrigerant, MAY be down to 40F (which is an unproven claim on your part), by the time the refrigerant has moved through the coils, it's warmed up considerably. The coils are no longer at 40F. You yourself mention that evap coils may be different temps in different places, but then you completely ignore what that means. The air will only be made as cold as the evap coil it touches, it can't be made any colder. Given that the evap coils warm up, even if they start at 40F at the very entrance to the coils, they don't stay at 40F. And given the relative masses of the two thermal systems - the mass of room air blowing past the coils v the mass of refrigerant circulating through the evap coils - the coils will ALWAYS warm up more than the air will cool down. So coil temps will rise above 40F. And the air exiting the coils will never be at 40F. That's why my coils measured 59F. And that's why the air doesn't get cool enough to condense moisture, under my conditions. And that's why the room gets more humid as it's cooled down. And no, I don't think every possible small podunk needs a NIST SRM or even a CRM. But if they're taking barometric measurement for anything important, they SHOULD have a robust QC system in place. At the very least they should be checking their barometers(specialized manometers) against a known value (like an altitude-corrected nearby NWS air pressure reading) before they take a measurement, in order to make sure their barometer's working correctly.
Wednesday, June 23, 2021 3:21 AM
Quote:SIGNYM: Jeezus, JSF, you're lecturing to people who know all about refrigerants, refrigerators, all kinds of coolers (including Peltier coolers), humidity and percent moisture measurements I think I know how to condense moisture and dry gases and how to deal with humidity and moisture calculations for.... home HVAC The fact is that if you cool air but do not reach dew point (ie water does not condense out) relative humidity goes up. JSF: Well, jeez. If you already understood that the Dew Point at the coils is 40 degrees F, and you already understand that the output of the A/C is 60 degrees F with an RH of 70%, which when warmed to 70 degrees F is RH 35%, and that Air Conditioners and Dehumidifiers are functionally the same, then I do not understand why you have been posting as if you are dumbfounded by the concepts. SIGNY: How do I "know" this? Whether the coil condenses out moisture or not depends on the moisture content and temperature of the air coming in, and whether the coil reaches the dew point depends on the efficiency of the AC. But according to the AC guy who came to replace our compressor, you can generally expect a 20 degree drop in temp across the evap coils. So if the temp outside in 100 and the dew point is 40, then the temp coming at the coils is 80F ... far far away from any possible condensation. And if the temp drops at night to 80, and the AC manages to cool the air to 60F, then the temp is STILL above the dew point of 40F. Right? JSF: No. Not right. Based upon your prior posted replies, I had considered our exchange on this subject finished, and had not bothered to respond to the above post. I had already ended my attempts towards discussion with kiki about the topic. But then you posted the following, suggesting you enjoyed the discourse. Despite you posting more (repeated, continuing) wrong, and apparently not reading the facts which I have posted, I can try to reply briefly. If you desire to dispute the facts that I am posting and have posted, no need to bother. If you have genuine and valid questions about the facts I post, feel free to entertain those. SIGNYM: Ok, let me put it this way: Dew point is like temperature: It's a measurement of outdoor air, and has nothing to do with any specific air conditioner. If you go to wunderground.com and do a search on any los angeles zip code, and call up the 10-day forecast, you'll see lines curving up and down for temperature, "feels like", and DEW POINT. If the temperature is 100F and the dew point is 40F, you would have to cool the air all the way down to 40F to get condensation. And unless water is condensed, moisture content will not be reduced. Is a normal AC unit capable of cooling air from 100F to 40F? OTOH, if the temperature is 80F and the dew point is 65F, what are the chances that an AC unit will condense water out of the air? I DID appreciate the discussion, tho. JSF: Why you think I implied lack of knowledge about Dew Points, I don't know. I have been adequately familiar with Dew Point since running the Barometer room in the Calibration Lab of our sensor and instrument repair shop for our airline at LAX. It was the only calibrated Standard Barometer our airline had in SoCal. I don't recall if the next nearest was SFO, Denver, or Houston. Even before that, every calibration lab I worked at was required to maintain a humidograph. No, the molecular composition of the refrigerant does NOT change just because external conditions have changed. No external temperature, humidity level, light or brightness, or even "temperature setting" on an Air Conditioner HMI/display will make alterations to the molecular composition of the refrigerant. The system using refrigerants is a closed system. No, external environmental conditions or distractions will not change the boiling point of the stable refrigerant under system compression (pressure). No, the compression does not change based upon external environmental conditions, unless you have a variable compressor for your residential unit, which means a very, very expensive A/C, and thus a very, very expensive abode. Perhaps you can explain to yourself how an Evaporator Coil can freeze water into a solid block while at the same time never dropping below 59 degrees F, or even never dropping below 45 degrees F. Yes, Evaporator Coils are notoriously difficult to get an accurate reading from, and one end of the Evaporator tube may be 40 degrees F while the other end could be 60 degrees F. But kiki already admitted she measured 59 degrees F, so you need not further argue about any Dew Point above 59 unless you are arguing with her. I have no disagreement that HVAC guys, just like auto mechanics, can be stupid, even very stupid. Maybe that guy made a situational comment, or maybe you misunderstood what or how he said. But if he really said that, then I would either A) not let him touch my A/C equipment or B) watch him like a hawk, every thing he did. If he really believed that, then he could be just blissfully ignorant, and only doing what his boss told him to do or say, to make the company money. If he knew better and was just saying that to lie to you, then he should be watched closely to ward from sabotage of your equipment. A Compressor swap is not brain surgery, no matter what algore says. You might check of he charged you for applying Prop Wash to your Fan Blades, or refilling your Blinker Fluid, or replacing your Muffler Belt. Regardless, I would not let such a tard near Ammonia refrigeration, nor nitrogen refrigeration. In a 70 degree space, the output of a working A/C should be 60 degrees. In a 110 degree environment, the output of a working A/C should be 60 degrees. I have seen and measured both - it is part of troubleshooting. The outside temperature has no relation to the output temperature of an A/C. It does affect the efficiency of cooling off the Condenser. If the outside temperature is 120 degrees, and the inside temperature is at 90 degrees, then the 90 degrees is the pertinent factor that the A/C and refrigerant is chewing on. The refrigerant does not change it's own boiling point based upon either the inside temp or the outside temp. When the boiling point of the refrigerant is 40 degrees F, then any air, regardless of temperature (unless something higher than 150 degrees) or humidity, which is forced past this Evaporator tube will continue away from the Evaporator at 40 degrees, and more importantly at 40 degrees Dew Point. You have seen a cold beer can come out of refrigeration on a hot day? If 70 degrees outside, will condensation form on the can? (Yes.) If 110 degrees outside, will condensation form on the can? (Yes.)
Quote:JSF: The only real difference is that, in stagnant (unforced) air, the 110 degrees will condense faster, practically immediately - unless the Dew Point is under 40 or 50 degrees. Upon reviewing your post, I see you may be confused about Dew Point of A/C output air. The Dew Point of air coming out of a working A/C cannot be 100% RH. The critical factor is the INSTANTANEOUS DEW POINT of the air when it encounters the Evaporator tube containing the 40 degree refrigerant inside. The air on the exit side of this tube or Coil cannot have a dew point higher than 40 degrees. By the time it exits the A/C vent, the temp would be 60 degrees, and RH around 70% (or so). You don't need to cool the entire room down to 40F to achieve condensation (think of a cold can), but only the instantaneous point of contact of the forced air across the 40F Evaporator Coil. The room can be 120 degrees, and the 40F coil will still form condensate - and that parcel of air will be dehumidified down to the Dew Point of 40F until it mixes with the rest of the space. SIGNY: Is a normal AC unit capable of cooling air from 100F to 40F? JSF: If you are asking the proper question, then yes. The instantaneous cooling at the Evaporator will produce 40 degree air, and by the time it exits the A/C it will be 60 degrees, and by the time it is a foot away from the vent you can still place your hand and feel sub-70 temp, and by the time this air reaches 15 feet away from to vent in a 100 degree space, it is likely 90 or 95 degrees, largely depending upon the Blower Fan. So if the indoor temperature is 100 degrees, the normal functioning A/C will not make the entire space 60 in an instant, but will after enough time - that amount of time is determined by the capacity or rating of the A/C - like the size of the coils, and the Blower Fan capacity. Even if the outside temp is 120 F, the A/C air will become 90 (most efficiently), then 80, then 70, then 60 (least efficiently). If the indoor temp is much below 60 degrees, then the normal A/C unit will, when running, mostly just freeze up the Evaporator Coil into a solid block of ice. Because the air does not have enough heat in it to supply the heat needed for the refrigerant to boil efficiently in the Evaporator. At all of these temps, the air is being cooled to 40 F on the exit side of the Evaporator, but the physics of the normal residential A/C will not cool the entire space to 40 degrees without freezing up the coil. This is why a refrigerator cooling system is different than an A/C unit. And, if Freezer and Refrigerator are independent, the Freezer cooling is different as well. The targeted temp range is determined by the combination of specific refrigerant and pressure. SIGNY: OTOH, if the temperature is 80F and the dew point is 65F, what are the chances that an AC unit will condense water out of the air? JSF: kiki has already admitted that she measured 59 degrees on her Evaporator Coil (the notoriously error-prone measurements of Evaporators would have her read 59 only if the actual temp was lower, not if the actual temp was higher.) With a temp at lest as low as 59 degrees, I think you should be able to see that any hypothetical Temperature characteristics or Dew Point higher than 59 degrees (exiting the unit) is moot. Obviously, the Dew Point in the conditioned space must be attacked piecemeal, it does not instantly change throughout the entire space. The other argument either you or kiki seems to be having is that you consider a Dew Point of 40F to be too humid - which neither of you explained early on, so we could not know your level of reference. I'll need to finish composing this later.
Wednesday, June 23, 2021 5:07 AM
Quote:1KIKI: JSF - why are you stuck on 40F? You yourself cited a SPECIFIC refrigerant "R-134a". But not all refrigerants 'boil' at 40F, and there are a variety of refrigerants used in AC units. So, unless you can quote me some ASTM standard (or equivalent) that says all compressor/ refrigerant combinations must be designed to an evap coil temp of 40F, I'm going to ignore your 40F mania. Aside from thinking that cooling coil icing is a normal function of any kind of refrigeration (it isn't), you missed one very important fact: As the air passing the coils is cooled down, the coils are warmed up. While coils, at the very, very entry point of the refrigerant, MAY be down to 40F (which is an unproven claim on your part), by the time the refrigerant has moved through the coils, it's warmed up considerably. The coils are no longer at 40F. You yourself mention that evap coils may be different temps in different places, but then you completely ignore what that means. The air will only be made as cold as the evap coil it touches...
Quote:KIKI: it can't be made any colder. Given that the evap coils warm up, even if they start at 40F at the very entrance to the coils, they don't stay at 40F. And given the relative masses of the two thermal systems - the mass of room air blowing past the coils v the mass of refrigerant circulating through the evap coils - the coils will ALWAYS warm up more than the air will cool down. So coil temps will rise above 40F. And the air exiting the coils will never be at 40F. That's why my coils measured 59F. And that's why the air doesn't get cool enough to condense moisture, under my conditions. And that's why the room gets more humid as it's cooled down. And no, I don't think every possible small podunk needs a NIST SRM or even a CRM. But if they're taking barometric measurement for anything important, they SHOULD have a robust QC system in place. At the very least they should be checking their barometers(specialized manometers) against a known value (like an altitude-corrected nearby NWS air pressure reading) before they take a measurement, in order to make sure their barometer's working correctly. JSF: Yes, as I already pointed out, NWS did calibrate off of our Standard.
Quote: JSF: I see that since you cannot understand the concept of Calibration Standard, you should just assume I am special.
Wednesday, June 23, 2021 12:06 PM
Wednesday, June 23, 2021 1:25 PM
Wednesday, June 23, 2021 4:47 PM
Wednesday, June 23, 2021 5:37 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Quote:SIGNYM: Jeezus, JSF, you're lecturing to people who know all about refrigerants, refrigerators, all kinds of coolers (including Peltier coolers), humidity and percent moisture measurements
Quote:SIGNYM: Jeezus, JSF, you're lecturing to people who know all about refrigerants, refrigerators, all kinds of coolers (including Peltier coolers), humidity and percent moisture measurements
Quote: The temperature your AC puts out is relative to the temperature you set on your thermostat.
Quote: I can't imagine why YOU can't imagine a situation in which an AC unit does NOT act as a dehumidifier. If the outside temperature is high enough, and the humidity is low enough, you won't be able to wring water out of the air with a normally-operating AC unit set to typical indoor temperatures (in the 70s). You'd have to use a chemical drier. Theoretically, let's start on the far end of the bell curve: Air with no moisture in it at all. Clearly, you can't dehumidify it any further no matter HOW much you cool it down! As we move along the curve, adding a smidge of water to the air (to approximate, say, the water content of Mars) it's still impossible to dehumidify the air with a normal AC. But by adding more and more moisture to the air, it becomes more and more possible to dehumidify with less and less of a temperature drop until eventually the moisture condenses out on its own and you have fog. So it's obvious to me that under some conditions of temperature and humidity - such as what happens during a Santa Ana in the high deserts and foothills - it's theoretically possible not to be able to dehumidify air with a normally-operating AC unit set to typical indoor temperatures.
Wednesday, June 23, 2021 5:59 PM
Quote:SIGNYM: Jeezus, JSF, you're lecturing to people who know all about refrigerants, refrigerators, all kinds of coolers (including Peltier coolers), humidity and percent moisture measurements JSF: https://georgebrazilhvac.com/blog/what-temperature-should-my-central-air-conditioner-be-putting-out
Quote: I can't imagine why YOU can't imagine a situation in which an AC unit does NOT act as a dehumidifier. If the outside temperature is high enough, and the humidity is low enough, you won't be able to wring water out of the air with a normally-operating AC unit set to typical indoor temperatures (in the 70s). You'd have to use a chemical drier. Theoretically, let's start on the far end of the bell curve: Air with no moisture in it at all. Clearly, you can't dehumidify it any further no matter HOW much you cool it down! As we move along the curve, adding a smidge of water to the air (to approximate, say, the water content of Mars) it's still impossible to dehumidify the air with a normal AC. But by adding more and more moisture to the air, it becomes more and more possible to dehumidify with less and less of a temperature drop until eventually the moisture condenses out on its own and you have fog. So it's obvious to me that under some conditions of temperature and humidity - such as what happens during a Santa Ana in the high deserts and foothills - it's theoretically possible not to be able to dehumidify air with a normally-operating AC unit set to typical indoor temperatures. JSF: Not sure if you are still in mid-edit of your post after a half a day. But i don't understand why you are working so feverishly to push and pull and tug and move the goalposts. The topic was humid air. Mention was made about the air was too humid. Before your edits, you were talking about dry air, which was in no part of the topic except changing humid air to dry air. You two have been proclaiming that air with high Relative Humidity cannot possibly pass through Evaporator Coils of a working, normal residential Air Conditioner (or Dehumidifier) where at least a portion are 40 degrees F and produce a single droplet of water upon the coil.
Quote:I'm not going to bother explaining moisture baffles because you are obviously already overly confused, and now you cannot even stay on topic.
Wednesday, June 23, 2021 6:53 PM
Quote:SignyM - I can't imagine why YOU can't imagine a situation in which an AC unit does NOT act as a dehumidifier. ... Theoretically, let's start on the far end of the bell curve: Air with no moisture in it at all. Clearly, you can't dehumidify it any further no matter HOW much you cool it down!
Quote: JSF: Not sure if you are still in mid-edit of your post after a half a day. But i don't understand why you are working so feverishly to push and pull and tug and move the goalposts. The topic was humid air. Mention was made about the air was too humid. Before your edits, you were talking about dry air, which was in no part of the topic except changing humid air to dry air.
Quote:You two have been proclaiming that air with high Relative Humidity cannot possibly pass through Evaporator Coils of a working, normal residential Air Conditioner (or Dehumidifier) where at least a portion are 40 degrees F and produce a single droplet of water upon the coil.
Wednesday, June 23, 2021 9:00 PM
Wednesday, June 23, 2021 9:38 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Brenda: Back from my walk and not as warm as yesterday. Bit more cloud cover and breeze. But weather is suppose to remain warm to hot until next Tuesday. Now, I have to figure out how to get another hole put into the tv stand so I can run some wires to hook up the VCR I have and see if it still works.
Wednesday, June 23, 2021 11:21 PM
Wednesday, June 23, 2021 11:28 PM
Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN: Quote:Originally posted by Brenda: Back from my walk and not as warm as yesterday. Bit more cloud cover and breeze. But weather is suppose to remain warm to hot until next Tuesday. Now, I have to figure out how to get another hole put into the tv stand so I can run some wires to hook up the VCR I have and see if it still works. Is your wrist better yet?
Wednesday, June 23, 2021 11:30 PM
Thursday, June 24, 2021 8:25 AM
Thursday, June 24, 2021 10:52 AM
Thursday, June 24, 2021 12:36 PM
Thursday, June 24, 2021 1:11 PM
Thursday, June 24, 2021 1:23 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1KIKI: Hey Brenda - is BC in drought yet? The website where I can check it out is a month behind, so I can't seem to find current info. Here's the US picture. They update it Thursdays, so by the end of today it'll be current.
Thursday, June 24, 2021 1:24 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK: I'm very happy with "abnormally dry" here. Sorry about your drought out west there. I guess by now ya'all just call that Summer. Glad your wrist is better Brenda. Hows the new foot stool working out? -------------------------------------------------- Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.
Thursday, June 24, 2021 1:26 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: I think we discussed this before, but has anyone besides me noticed increased grocery prices? I used to be able to stick pretty close to my grocery target, but for the past sevevn shopping trips I was over-budget ($30-$50 per week) for 5 out of 7 trips, and the under-budget didn't average out the over-budget, like it usually did, I think the main culprit is meat, with cheese and fresh vegetables following. I have "target prices': prices above which I won't buy something, and for meat that's $4/lb for lean, trimmed cuts. But used to be there was always a good sale in one of the two stores that I routinely shop, so I could often find meat that was significantly cheaper than that: ground turkey for $2.67/lb, or lean beef (which I ground myself) for $3.99. Now even fatty beef (tri-tip) is $4.99/lb on sale, and sales in general are hard to come by. So where I used to average maybe $2.50/lb for meat, I'm regularly buying closer and closer to my price point-maybe average $3.50/lb. The other price I'm sensitive to is cheese. My price point on that was $5/lb but I used to be able to find cheese on sale for $3.00/lb. No more. All of that gone the way of the dodo and best price I can find is $4/lb. Bread: expensive. Organic fruits and vegetables used to be generically $2/lb. Well, fortunately the garden is going to fill in for some of that. TBH I shop at regular grocery stores, not warehouse or club stores (I can't store the huge quantities that one is required to buy). So, am I the only one? Have prices really gone up, or am I doing something new and different with my menu planning and shopping?? ----------- Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.
Thursday, June 24, 2021 1:55 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: I think we discussed this before, but has anyone besides me noticed increased grocery prices? I used to be able to stick pretty close to my grocery target, but for the past sevevn shopping trips I was over-budget ($30-$50 per week) for 5 out of 7 trips, and the under-budget didn't average out the over-budget, like it usually did, I think the main culprit is meat, with cheese and fresh vegetables following. I have "target prices': prices above which I won't buy something, and for meat that's $4/lb for lean, trimmed cuts. But used to be there was always a good sale in one of the two stores that I routinely shop, so I could often find meat that was significantly cheaper than that: ground turkey for $2.67/lb, or lean beef (which I ground myself) for $3.99. Now even fatty beef (tri-tip) is $4.99/lb on sale, and sales in general are hard to come by. So where I used to average maybe $2.50/lb for meat, I'm regularly buying closer and closer to my price point-maybe average $3.50/lb. The other price I'm sensitive to is cheese. My price point on that was $5/lb but I used to be able to find cheese on sale for $3.00/lb. No more. All of that gone the way of the dodo and best price I can find is $4/lb. Bread: expensive. Organic fruits and vegetables used to be generically $2/lb. Well, fortunately the garden is going to fill in for some of that. TBH I shop at regular grocery stores, not warehouse or club stores (I can't store the huge quantities that one is required to buy). So, am I the only one? Have prices really gone up, or am I doing something new and different with my menu planning and shopping??
Thursday, June 24, 2021 5:37 PM
Thursday, June 24, 2021 8:22 PM
Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN: Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: I think we discussed this before, but has anyone besides me noticed increased grocery prices? I used to be able to stick pretty close to my grocery target, but for the past sevevn shopping trips I was over-budget ($30-$50 per week) for 5 out of 7 trips, and the under-budget didn't average out the over-budget, like it usually did, I think the main culprit is meat, with cheese and fresh vegetables following. I have "target prices': prices above which I won't buy something, and for meat that's $4/lb for lean, trimmed cuts. But used to be there was always a good sale in one of the two stores that I routinely shop, so I could often find meat that was significantly cheaper than that: ground turkey for $2.67/lb, or lean beef (which I ground myself) for $3.99. Now even fatty beef (tri-tip) is $4.99/lb on sale, and sales in general are hard to come by. So where I used to average maybe $2.50/lb for meat, I'm regularly buying closer and closer to my price point-maybe average $3.50/lb. The other price I'm sensitive to is cheese. My price point on that was $5/lb but I used to be able to find cheese on sale for $3.00/lb. No more. All of that gone the way of the dodo and best price I can find is $4/lb. Bread: expensive. Organic fruits and vegetables used to be generically $2/lb. Well, fortunately the garden is going to fill in for some of that. TBH I shop at regular grocery stores, not warehouse or club stores (I can't store the huge quantities that one is required to buy). So, am I the only one? Have prices really gone up, or am I doing something new and different with my menu planning and shopping?? Well, obviously, Californians wanted higher cost of living, higher inflation, and higher food prices - and that is why they vote for Lord Darth Obiden. Everybody has known this for more than a year. So now Californians got what they voted for, so they must be thrilled. Curious that you seemed to gloss over the fact that for the past 4 years, prices have been held in check, or even dipping, during the thriving, bustling Free Market economy.
Thursday, June 24, 2021 8:28 PM
Thursday, June 24, 2021 9:03 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Brenda: From what I can gather Kiki, we aren't quite there yet. But the fire rating for most of BC is in the danger zone. So there are fire bans on across the province.
Thursday, June 24, 2021 9:28 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: So, am I the only one? Have (grocery) prices really gone up, or am I doing something new and different with my menu planning and shopping?? ----------- Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.
Thursday, June 24, 2021 9:35 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Speaking of personal events... been having pain not exactly back pain, but starting to the right of my tailbone, wrapping around my butt, and going down the front of my thigh to my knee. Pinched nerve of some sort.
Thursday, June 24, 2021 10:32 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1KIKI: Quote:Originally posted by 1KIKI: Hey Brenda - is BC in drought yet? The website where I can check it out is a month behind, so I can't seem to find current info. Here's the US picture. They update it Thursdays, so by the end of today it'll be current. Quote:Originally posted by Brenda: From what I can gather Kiki, we aren't quite there yet. But the fire rating for most of BC is in the danger zone. So there are fire bans on across the province.
Thursday, June 24, 2021 11:29 PM
Thursday, June 24, 2021 11:51 PM
Thursday, June 24, 2021 11:55 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1KIKI: You know how I interpret deg C? I remember that normal body temp is 37C, which is 98.6F. Some areas are expecting low 40's, eh? That's way, WAY over 100F.
Friday, June 25, 2021 12:06 AM
Friday, June 25, 2021 10:50 AM
Friday, June 25, 2021 1:25 PM
Friday, June 25, 2021 1:39 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1KIKI: No bueno ... Drought Indicators in Western U.S. Flash Warnings of the ‘Big One’ Summer in the U.S. begins with widespread drought already at historic levels across 11 states. Experts warn of worsening conditions once wildfires start. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-24/historic-drought-slams-entire-western-u-s-as-wildfire-season-looms Record Heat to Scorch Seattle, Then Spread Across Western U.S. Seattle on Sunday could reach 103 degrees Fahrenheit (39 Celsius), tying its all-time hottest reading and breaking the 96-degree mark for its warmest June day, said Bob Oravec, a senior branch forecaster at the U.S. Weather Prediction Center. Portland could also tie its record high of 107 on Saturday, with other parts of the region hitting unprecedented levels. The worst of the heat will be centered on the Northwest and then seep east into Idaho by Monday, though California will also be struck with oppressive conditions. The Golden State’s Independent System Operator, which manages the electric gird, said it’s closely watching the situation. Excessive heat watches stretch the length of California to the suburbs north and west of Los Angeles, where temperatures could reach 110 from Sunday to Monday. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-25/record-heat-to-scorch-seattle-then-spread-across-western-u-s
Friday, June 25, 2021 4:27 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: I'm going to refer back to a post that you made about pump cycles, which implied that the less water that you pump out with each cycle means that the pump will go off less often. But if you pump less water per cycle, the pump will have to go off MORE often in order to keep up with the inflow. It's simple subtraction: water trickling in minus water being pumped out. Maybe you post confusingly, but sometimes your posts sound nonsensical.
Friday, June 25, 2021 5:32 PM
Friday, June 25, 2021 11:16 PM
Saturday, June 26, 2021 12:58 AM
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