In the garden, and RAIN!!!! by SIGNYM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:

Mouse is all good now but I need to dust off the keyboard I see. That is what happens when you buy black things, they show every speck of dust.
YAY on the mouse!
Quote:
We're going to be hot here today but not anything to what you are seeing down there. Stay safe.
THANKS. I definitely have been staying safe. On my list for today was new front tires and long(er) distance bulk shopping.

But the car place I usually go to was jam-packed, so I waited for over 3 hours - in a VERY comfy AC'd waiting room on a VERY comfy couch. So that was cool! (Ha ha! See what I did there?)

Yeah, just have to remind myself to check it every once in a while. Amazing what you can forget in regards to tech.

I did Kiki. Glad you got your car sorted and was comfy while getting it all done.

I hope the AC wasn't turned up too high. I find places do that up here. Crank the AC as high as it will go and then I end up freezing my cahonies off. So I Hate AC.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 19, 2021 11:43 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
We must have more of a sea breeze here. It never did ge to 97 like they predicted. So while KIKI was dealing with 115F it was about 95F here.

But we have a relatively insulated home, so our AC was able to keep the living areas a comfy 76.

KIKI, if you ever want a cool place to sleep, just let me know!

I appreciate the offer! I have A/C in the bedroom though it does sometimes make the room more humid as well. But if I don't want to spend all day hiding out from the heat, it does slow me down some. First of all, the heat just knocks me out! But also, one just moves slower when it's so warm.

Quote:
In the meantime, still busy with "chores', not progress on anything except that dd and I turned her dresser rightside up and she managed to finish spraying the last side of the legs that we couldn't get to before. So now she'll be able to start tidying up, with my help. The veggie garden and the potted plants got their twice-weekly watering, the foundation bushes, back lawn, rose bushes and avocados got their twice a month watering, but the CA native area won't get watered again until the end of the month.

My goal today was to do the rest of my grocery shopping which also included more local heavy-weight stocking-up shopping. So I did that today, but that was about my speed.

I hope to start back up on my 1hr/ day gardening(yardwork) which includes watering which I have to do by hand, not having a sprinkler system.

Quote:
I noticed something interesting: the big butterflies (monarchs, swallowtails, mourning cloaks) like the tall flowers like verbena bonariensis and tall cosmos, while the medium butterflies (white and sulfur butterflies) like the shorter cosmos and verbena lilacina, and the smallest butterflies (skippers) like the shortest flowers: creeping lantana and matchweed.

It must be delightful to have so many different butterflies in the yard!

Quote:
Also, while most of my flowers are pooping out - the CA poppies are dying out and the cosmos are fading - the big California buckwheat is blooming and attracting all kinds of interesting pollinators, many of which I don't even recognize. The bonariensis and purple creeping lantana are also blooming, and the lantana that I so roughly transplanted and looked like it died is also JUST beginning to bloom, with blossom heads that start out butter yellow but turn to pink and lilac from the outside in, so the flower clusters are actually multi-colored with pale yellow centers and pink/lilac surround. Pretty!

In the fall I'll have CA goldenrod (I hope) and two kinds of bright orange-red CA fuchsia.

My garden-thug privet (glossy-leaved) is now blooming after the native evergreen cherry trees (which bloomed after the oxalis), but before the crape myrtles. But this year I've hardly seen any pollinators all year - not on the oxalis, or the evergreen cherry trees, or the privet. My neighbors may be spraying heavily to get rid of the Argentinian ants. I'm worried that it's really hitting everything else.

Quote:
Also, first beets. As I mentioned, first cucumbers, and first tomato - yay! I haven't picked it yet bc it's destined for salad tomorrow, and it'll taste better fresh off the vine. Today we had that ginormous zucchini/turned into zucchini lasagna/ parmigiana, Alfredo-style. This time, instead of mixing chopped spinach into the meat mix I picked a big handful of basil, minced it super-fine (bc it's on the tough side) and cooked it into the meat and the family thought it was tasty. It's still a PITA but at least I don't have an arm-sized zucchini on the countertop.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

Your cooking sounds so good, Signy! and especially with the TASTEEE garden-fresh veges.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 19, 2021 11:49 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
I hope the AC wasn't turned up too high. I find places do that up here. Crank the AC as high as it will go and then I end up freezing my cahonies off. So I Hate AC.

It was QUITE comfortable for me, and de-humidified, which was nice. And it was also quiet. And really, really comfortable.

Do I recollect you have an underactive thyroid? Maybe that's what's making you run so cool compared to most other people. I can see how the cold winter would be a trial for you, besides the dreary lack of sunshine, and the dampness of too-frequent rains.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 19, 2021 11:51 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
In my cleaning of the stove top, I pulled a burner out and thought I had put it back right. Discovered today while trying to make my supper I hadn't. So, I had to stop making my supper to fix my dumb mistake. But all fixed now.

I just irks me when that happens!

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 12:21 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
It's finally supposed to start cooling down there on the west coast, isn't it?

Crap. I just looked. It was supposed to happen Monday, drop to 85, and last for 6 days. Now it's not happening till Wednesday, and Thursday ... and then it starts going back up again. By Sunday it'll be back up to 95F which - if it works out like last time - means ~110F at my house.

Quote:
Now that I've been doing a much better job of just taking a little extra time to do a bit of tidying up in the kitchen and bathroom as I use it, my "chores" have become somewhat less of a chore. If I can keep that habit up this time, the days of letting those two rooms go until they're gross to walk into and take two days to scrub clean should be over.

I read somewhere that if it takes a minute or less to do, then it's worth doing right then. I've been following that, and it really seems to help.

Quote:
I'm not going to say anything about the moles because I don't want to jinx myself, but I'll just say that you haven't heard me talking about moles for a while.

My issue is with gophers. And when I get rid of them, they repopulate from the hill across the street. The coyotes are slacking off! And oh, I'd prefer moles because they only eat bugs. But gophers will eat the roots right off a large tree.

Quote:
There's still two fairly small yet stubborn stains that continue to bleed through the paint on one of the doors directly below the sink. I even put an extra dab of paint around the general area of them in between coats and it's still showing through. There's also a some on the inside border of the frame on the inside of the door that won't go away either. Kind of insane considering they've now had 3 coats of (supposedly) stain sealing primer

Zinsser? oil based?

Quote:
with two coats of cabinet/trim enamel paint that also calls itself a paint and primer in one.

Any idea what the stains are?

Quote:
... I'll probably just hit those two doors with an extra coat or two of paint and hope that it finally seals everything in.

After I stripped the lead paint off the outside of my house, I found out the siding was made of cedar which bleeds tannins through. Aside from the Kilz (water based is all you can get here, and the ppl at Lowes told me Zinsser was better when I asked a few weeks ago) it took 4 coats of exterior paint to (mostly) get rid of the stain. If I was going to do it all over again, I'd try for Zinsser oil-based stain-blocking primer.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 9:03 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

As a complete aside: As you know, I pretty much lost my sense of smell 5+ years ago because of chronic sinus infection. I went from being able to smell things that nobody else could (for example, knitted silk had its own odor which I can only describe as lanolin/fatty-like) to not being able to smell at all. I could taste sweet, salty, bitter, sour, and umami but I couldn't tell you if I was sniffing garlic oil or vanilla extract. And altho I've had two surgeries, several courses of antibiotics (one which left me with chronic pain) and a continuous treatment of rinses and oral medications, my sense of smell have never really been restored. It comes and goes, and when it come back it's only for certain small acohols, esters and aldehydes (the curse of being an analytical chemist!) like dry erase marker and rubbing alcohol. Sulfur-containing compounds (onion, garlic, natgas odorant etc) have NEVER re-entered my repetoire.

But yesterday, I actually tasted strawberries. It was a phenomenal and gratifying surprise, I don't expect it will last because I'm not doing anything new or different, and since it comes and goes on its own I expect it will go. Not a sign of permanent progress, But still, nice when it happens.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 10:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Quote:
It's finally supposed to start cooling down there on the west coast, isn't it?
Crap. I just looked. It was supposed to happen Monday, drop to 85, and last for 6 days. Now it's not happening till Wednesday, and Thursday ... and then it starts going back up again. By Sunday it'll be back up to 95F which - if it works out like last time - means ~110F at my house.

What? You don't have A/C? Keeks, you've got to get yourself at least a window unit. I lived that way for five 8 years. I don't know how hot my house actually got because I only had the thermostat that capped off at 99 degrees but it would be like that for days and it was misery. But I was in my mid-30's.

That window unit I got last year was a life saver. And with a large fan I'm able to cool and dehumidify my whole house with it. Well.. at least you don't have to worry about humidity outside of whatever you're sweating off or cooking, but take up Sigs on her offer to stay at your place until you get some A/C. You're going to end up a statistic.

Quote:
Now that I've been doing a much better job of just taking a little extra time to do a bit of tidying up in the kitchen and bathroom as I use it, my "chores" have become somewhat less of a chore. If I can keep that habit up this time, the days of letting those two rooms go until they're gross to walk into and take two days to scrub clean should be over.

Quote:
I read somewhere that if it takes a minute or less to do, then it's worth doing right then. I've been following that, and it really seems to help.

It makes sense. Nearly my whole life I'd just do nothing and let things just get worse and worse until I couldn't take it anymore then spend days cleaning stuff to make it immaculate.

This year I've had more visitors than usual and my old man was even coming over to the house to shower a few times since they didn't have one for a while. After that first deep clean I've only had to do much, much smaller ones every once in a while because I'm doing my best to keep things clean immediately after I use them. It doesn't take very long, and really doesn't take much effort doing it that way. It's just a habit that you need to develop and stick with.

I wouldn't consider my house currently ready for company, but at least if I knew somebody was coming 2 hours from now it wouldn't be a problem getting it back to where I'd want it to be.

Quote:
I'm not going to say anything about the moles because I don't want to jinx myself, but I'll just say that you haven't heard me talking about moles for a while.

Quote:
My issue is with gophers. And when I get rid of them, they repopulate from the hill across the street. The coyotes are slacking off! And oh, I'd prefer moles because they only eat bugs. But gophers will eat the roots right off a large tree.

I think the moles are doing the same thing at the ditch across the street. I'm glad I don't have gophers around killing the last maple tree that hasn't died, but the moles are always making tracks right up against my foundation, which is something I don't need with all the other issues.

Quote:
There's still two fairly small yet stubborn stains that continue to bleed through the paint on one of the doors directly below the sink. I even put an extra dab of paint around the general area of them in between coats and it's still showing through. There's also a some on the inside border of the frame on the inside of the door that won't go away either. Kind of insane considering they've now had 3 coats of (supposedly) stain sealing primer

Quote:
Zinsser? oil based?

Zinsser 123 Plus. It's water based. And it's supposed to be a great stain blocker. I reject those claims.

I've been doing these doors for a LONG time. We've actually already talked about this before.

Quote:
with two coats of cabinet/trim enamel paint that also calls itself a paint and primer in one.

Quote:
Any idea what the stains are?

Probably a mix of water, mold and grease?

None of the top doors were an issue, and most of the bottom doors that weren't directly below the sink weren't either. I'm assuming it's just decades of stuff splashing out of the sink and sitting on the doors.

I was able to sand down any of the flat surfaces real good with power sanders, but I had to resort to sand paper and sanding sponges for the recessed areas and the nooks and crannies.

The two remaining stains are very tiny at this point, but still very annoying to me.

Quote:
... I'll probably just hit those two doors with an extra coat or two of paint and hope that it finally seals everything in.
After I stripped the lead paint off the outside of my house, I found out the siding was made of cedar which bleeds tannins through. Aside from the Kilz (water based is all you can get here, and the ppl at Lowes told me Zinsser was better when I asked a few weeks ago) it took 4 coats of exterior paint to (mostly) get rid of the stain. If I was going to do it all over again, I'd try for Zinsser oil-based stain-blocking primer.

Kilz oil based primer is certainly better than Zinnser primer. I'm using their "123 Plus" brand, which is their most expensive non-oil based and it's still not masking these stains.

That being said though, back when I was living at my grandmas I used Kilz to prime the joists in the basement when I lived down there. Even their oil based stuff took about 6 coats to cover water stains on a joist that was underneath the toilet upstairs.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 10:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I appreciate the offer! I have A/C in the bedroom though it does sometimes make the room more humid as well. But if I don't want to spend all day hiding out from the heat, it does slow me down some. First of all, the heat just knocks me out! But also, one just moves slower when it's so warm.

Wait... You do have A/C... but it makes the room more humid?

That's not A/C. That's evaporative cooling. A swamp cooler.

You happen to live in one of the only environments where something like that has any benefit at all, but in heat like you're having with no legitimate A/C system in place that's not going to do anything for you but give you a temporary relief and then add to your misery.

There's a reason you don't want to use it. It doesn't work.

Quote:
You know, it's one thing when a product has a limited scope and application. It's another when it's passed off as something greater than what it is. Learn why these fad devices are fad devices in this video.

I can tell you that the A/C purchase was one of the best things I've ever made. And I was shocked how little it actually costs to run.

It feels like I've had it on for at least 12 hours every night this month, but I know that there were some where I didn't need it. I haven't got the bill yet, but yesterday they did the reading and it said I still used 12% less electric than I did last August when I had a $135 electric AND gas bill. $135 was my worst A/C month last year compared to $208 being my worst heat month this winter.

The unit was about $450, so if you want to cool more than one single room you're going to need at least 12,000 BTUs and a good fan to move air around. But I don't think you're as insanely cheap as I am. Maybe you could have two of them on opposite ends of your house and you wouldn't feel like you were stuck in one room.

P.S. If you do go A/C shopping, make sure that your window dimensions will fit the window unit. And also make sure that the plugs are for 120 service. Once you get into the 12,000 and 15,000 BTU range, a lot of the units are for 240 and probably wouldn't work for you without some pretty extensive electrical work being done first.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 12:58 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I have AC. The problem is 'relative humidity' - as the air is cooled it can hold less moisture, so it gets more 'humid'. And since this isn't central AC where the cooled (filtered and dehumidified) air sweeps in through the room and displaces the old air, and I don't let the AC'd air out of the room - I close the door - it does just kind of sit there. Cooler, but more humid.

Tho I appreciate the tips!

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 1:57 PM

No problem.

I've lived through that before, and I say every hot day I've got that A/C running what an asshole I was to put myself through it.

I also know exactly what you're talking about with the feeling trapped in a single room. I had a very old unit from the 80's in my small bedroom one summer that my mom and step dad gave to me. That thing cost a lot of money to run and there was no way it was cooling the whole house, so I was basically stuck inside one room and it was miserable even leaving it to go to the bathroom or use the kitchen. It was that summer where we had 10 straight days of 100 degree temps with the real feel reaching 120 on a few of them.

If you include the basement on my tri-level, there's about 1,500 sq ft. here. Granted, the basement never gets as hot as the higher floors, but with that wide open layout I run my single 12,000 BTU for around 12 to 15 hours overnight with a large circular metal fan (see: loud) and turn them both off during the day. It's nice and dry, the thermostat on the 2nd floor reads between 67 and 69 at that point, and it only ever gets back up to around the high 70's by the time I turn it back on around 6PM. The few times in August last year where we were having several days in the high 90's I actually ran the thing 24/7 and didn't turn it off at all.

I've looked into it and there really wouldn't be any harm in me running the thing 24/7 if I wanted to outside of the extra electric bill. But sometimes at night (and I sleep on the first floor), I feel cold. By the time I turn that thing off in the morning some mornings without my shirt on I'm really cold while turning it off.

Treat yourself to a few other small window units, or buy a big 12,000BTU like mine to augment your existing unit and have a fan or two to move the air around the house. (If you'd like, I'll give you the make and model of mine and how I run it after I'd fiddled with it a bit. I'm very pleased with it after 2 summers).

I don't mean to be spending your money or anything, but I've lived through what you're doing and now that I know better I'd never go back to that.

I thought your thermometer reading 115 the other day was the outside temperature. I had no idea that's the temperature INSIDE your house.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 2:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
I hope the AC wasn't turned up too high. I find places do that up here. Crank the AC as high as it will go and then I end up freezing my cahonies off. So I Hate AC.
It was QUITE comfortable for me, and de-humidified, which was nice. And it was also quiet. And really, really comfortable.

Do I recollect you have an underactive thyroid? Maybe that's what's making you run so cool compared to most other people. I can see how the cold winter would be a trial for you, besides the dreary lack of sunshine, and the dampness of too-frequent rains.

That's good.

And you do remember correctly. My thyroid is slow and why I take meds for it. The cold is very annoying now but I just try and deal with it.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 2:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
In my cleaning of the stove top, I pulled a burner out and thought I had put it back right. Discovered today while trying to make my supper I hadn't. So, I had to stop making my supper to fix my dumb mistake. But all fixed now.
I just irks me when that happens!

It did me too. Had to stop and fiddle with it for a couple of minutes to get it back in place. Putting it in and finding it wrong and pulling it out again. Finally got it right but took a bit.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 7:42 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
But yesterday, I actually tasted strawberries. It was a phenomenal and gratifying surprise ...

I'm so happy for you Signy! Really, truly, very happy!

I know your sense of smell comes and goes, tho almost always goes. But every time it comes back I think: 'it's not dead yet'. And it gives me hope. It makes me feel like the absence is circumstantial. And if you can figure out the circumstances, you can get more of it back more often.

BTW, have you tried smelling things with an N95 on? I feel like once you've had the N95 on for a while , it would give you more humidity. Humidity might be one of the things you need more of.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 7:48 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So yesterday we changed out a light fixture, and today I sprayed weeds and unwanted grasses. That's just what my mom used to call "a swipe and a promise" ... just keeping up with keeping up. But until I chisel out some more free time it'll have to do.

I think tomorrow we're going to reinstall a toilet.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 7:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
As a complete aside: As you know, I pretty much lost my sense of smell 5+ years ago because of chronic sinus infection. I went from being able to smell things that nobody else could (for example, knitted silk had its own odor which I can only describe as lanolin/fatty-like) to not being able to smell at all. I could taste sweet, salty, bitter, sour, and umami but I couldn't tell you if I was sniffing garlic oil or vanilla extract. And altho I've had two surgeries, several courses of antibiotics (one which left me with chronic pain) and a continuous treatment of rinses and oral medications, my sense of smell have never really been restored. It comes and goes, and when it come back it's only for certain small acohols, esters and aldehydes (the curse of being an analytical chemist!) like dry erase marker and rubbing alcohol. Sulfur-containing compounds (onion, garlic, natgas odorant etc) have NEVER re-entered my repetoire.

But yesterday, I actually tasted strawberries. It was a phenomenal and gratifying surprise, I don't expect it will last because I'm not doing anything new or different, and since it comes and goes on its own I expect it will go. Not a sign of permanent progress, But still, nice when it happens.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

Makes me flash to Kaylee with her strawberry gift from Book.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I have AC. The problem is 'relative humidity' - as the air is cooled it can hold less moisture, so it gets more 'humid'. And since this isn't central AC where the cooled (filtered and dehumidified) air sweeps in through the room and displaces the old air, and I don't let the AC'd air out of the room - I close the door - it does just kind of sit there. Cooler, but more humid.
Tho I appreciate the tips!

I'm thinking WTF. Some new A/C technology which does not dehumidify. Defies the physical laws of refrigerant and cooling.
What do you do with the water from your A/C? Where does the water go from your A/C? The condensate?
Can you share the make and model of this Air Conditioner of yours?

Other than at kiki's house, all conditioned air is less humid than air before conditioning - both relative humidity and absolute humidity.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:43 PM

Some folk have been posting about Air Conditioning, and it seems possible that some don't know how Air Conditioning works.

Somebody here seems to always overpower everything, using his sledgehammer when a rubber mallet will do.

If not already known, the output of Air Conditioner is 60 degrees F. If your output vents are away from your unit, your thermometer might read 62 degrees or so.

So if your space is 120 degrees, and your A/C sucks that in, then this is by far the most efficient that your unit can operate. Replacing 120 degree air with 60 degree air.
If your space is 70 degrees, the A/C will be drastically less efficient. It will need to work just as hard, but will have far less effect.

Conjure a open space building, like warehouse, with open rafters or roof structure. If the floor temp is 80 degrees, then the air just under the roof is over 120 degrees under the best of conditions. If a small, "under-powered", overwhelmed, under-rated Air Conditioner is installed in the roof, expelling heated air outside, then you should be able to understand that the peak temp of this air can be dropped at least down to 100 degrees, likely more. Then the floor heat can rise, and the floor temp will start to cool. In this way, a simple, cheap, small A/C unit can easily "chop off" the highest temp, and thereby provide relief for those sweating on a workroom floor.
This example IS NOT the same as a fully-controlled climate monitored Air Conditioning system.
But apply this to an overheated house. If a small, cheap A/C unit is installed in the highest and hottest spot in the house (if attic roof is not insulated, then the highest room other than the attic), then this is the most efficient way to cool the whole house, every minute that A/C is running. Putting the same unit, or even larger unit, in one room and dedicating that unit to maintaining some constantly monitored and climate controlled conditioning, is far less efficient (and, usually, effective).
My current house has water-radiant heating, therefore no Central Air. So I use multi-stage A/C. Specifically for me, 2-stage. My first and only floor has a window A/C (just got it a few weeks ago for $160). That unit cuts the highest heat levels down by about 20-30 degrees, and removes humidity. Sure, it is chilly right next to it, but floor fans disperse the comfy air all over the house. The basement air still rises, so the basement remains cool.
I like to sleep downstairs. I put up a plywood wall in the corner, and left a "window" opening (in the plywood, so discharge is into the basement proper) for an A/C unit. That unit keeps my sleep area wonderfully cool (60 degrees) and jettisons the hot air into the basement. I also have the window blacked out, so I can sleep well in the daytime. So when it is over 90 degrees outside at noon, I am running both units. Most of my house is comfy and about in the 70s, and I'm sleeping as well as in the winter.

I've had other situations where a "summer door" was used, which had a cutout for an A/C unit, and did the same thing - when a window-hanging unit was not allowed. In non-summer, the regular door went back up.

Currently, I sometimes leave my sleeping door open while running the unit, just to pull out more humidity - about 1-4 gallons per day - helping the dehumidifier.

You might think of this like your kitchen can be air conditioned, like down to 70s range, and then your refrigerator further cools down to about 40 degrees, and expels the hot air it collected into your kitchen air.

You often don't need some monster unit to run and minutely control every square foot of your abode. When I run mine, they run constantly, unless the sleep room unit gets down to the 60 degree level it is set at.

The house I had Central Air installed at, I made sure that at noon on the hottest days (100 degrees), my bedroom on the top (2nd) floor was able to be 60 degrees with the door closed. The rest of the house was comfy, even though the standard 10-15 degree difference still applied to 1st floor vs 2nd floor.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:53 PM

I have zero complaints about my A/C setup.

It's comfortable and it's cheap.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 10:56 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

JSF: I'm absolutely certain that KIKI has a good grasp of how an AC unit works, and what happens to air moisture. You have tremendous practical knowledge but missing some basic physics facts.

Saturated air at about 70F can hold 1.47 wt% water. It is at 100% relative humidity.

Saturated air at about 100F can hold 4.41 wt% water. It is also at 100% relative humidity.

If you run that 100F saturated (100% RH) air thru your standard AC (not a swamp cooler) and it comes out at 70F, that extra 2.94% water will indeed condense out, but it will STILL come out at 1.47% moisture (100% RH).

There is a difference between dehumidifiers and air conditioners.

Quote:
In a dehumidifier, humid air is taken in over the evaporator coil. It then goes through the condenser coil and is then released as regular air back into the area. It is warmer air than the room temperature once it passes over the condenser coil.

https://upgradedhome.com/air-conditioner-vs-dehumidifier/ So a dehumidifier condenses out the water, but then it REWARMS the air to reduce the relative humidity.

An AC unit chills the air, and condenses water, but because the air has been chilled its ability to hold moisture has been reduced, and therefore the relative humidity goes up.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 11:13 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

SIX: Your AC is cheap because your electric rates are cheap:

Quote:
Residential electricity rates in IN [1]

Residential electricity rates in Indiana average 10.53¢/kWh, which ranks the state 34th in the nation.

https://www.electricitylocal.com/states/indiana//

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 11:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
JSF: I'm absolutely certain that KIKI has a good grasp of how an AC unit works, and what happens to air moisture. You have tremendous practical knowledge but missing some basic physics facts.

Saturated air at about 70F can hold 1.47 wt% water. It is at 100% relative humidity.

Saturated air at about 100F can hold 4.41 wt% water. It is also at 100% relative humidity.

If you run that 100F saturated (100% RH) air thru your standard AC (not a swamp cooler) and it comes out at 70F, that extra 2.94% water will indeed condense out, but it will STILL come out at 1.47% moisture (100% RH).

There is a difference between dehumidifiers and air conditioners.

Quote:
In a dehumidifier, humid air is taken in over the evaporator coil. It then goes through the condenser coil and is then released as regular air back into the area. It is warmer air than the room temperature once it passes over the condenser coil.

https://upgradedhome.com/air-conditioner-vs-dehumidifier/ So a dehumidifier condenses out the water, but then it REWARMS the air to reduce the relative humidity.

An AC unit chills the air, and condenses water, but because the air has been chilled its ability to hold moisture has been reduced, and therefore the relative humidity goes up.

I don't know why your reading comprehension is faltering.

I already stated that air comes out of an air conditioner at 60 degrees. If not, it is not working.

Let's assume it comes out at 100% RH, which is actually not true. Then it mixes with the 100 degree air, and thus the total humidity of the air is reduced - both RH and AH.
Even if the air is only 70 degrees in the area, and the 60 degree output is 100% RH, then the RH of the 70 degree mixed air is less than 100%, and also less than it was before the AC sucked in the 100 degree air.

Your entire proposal depends upon keeping the 100 degree air you started with separated from the "70 degree" with a humidity barrier. Let alone the actual 60 degree output from AC.
As soon as your defective 70 degree air comes out and mixes with the 100 degree air, that 100 degree air is now less than 100% RH, and the humidity continues to decline as long as the AC continues to run.
In your pretend example, that 70 degree air will quickly warm to 100 degrees, and with the 1.47 wt% which you stated wiil be about 30% RH at 100 degrees.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 11:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SIX: Your AC is cheap because your electric rates are cheap:

Quote:
Residential electricity rates in IN [1]

Residential electricity rates in Indiana average 10.53¢/kWh, which ranks the state 34th in the nation.
https://www.electricitylocal.com/states/indiana//

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

Indiana is a big state. I did the math last year and where I'm at (by Chicago) it was 13.6 cents per kwh.

Also, that's not including the "delivery" charge and whatever other bullshit charges they tack on to both your electric and gas bill even if you didn't use electric and gas for the month. And there are quite a few of those.

According to this website, the national average is 13.19 cents per kwh, making it slightly above average here.

https://www.electricchoice.com/electricity-prices-by-state/

I'll rephrase it to say that considering how much the A/C has improved my quality of life 1/4 of every year, it's extremely cheap, even though we pay slightly more than the national average for electricity in my county.

TBH, now that I've done all this work on the house I couldn't live with it during the summer anymore even if I wanted to. I used to sweat all over the place while just sitting around doing nothing a few months out of every year. There's not a whole lot of things worse for refinished hardwood floors and restored cabinets and new painted trim than human sweat all over the place.

Even if Kiki pays 22 cents per kwh for A/C which seems to be on the high end in California, that's less than 9 cents per kwh more than I'm paying here now.

It could make her bills $50 or $60 higher per month than mine, but at her age I really think it's a necessity.

Like I said, I don't like spending other people's money anymore than I enjoy other people trying to spend mine, but if you didn't save for a retirement where you weren't constantly drenched in sweat in your 115 degree kitchen, what were you saving for?

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 11:44 PM

Foot stool that was given to me last year with sort of reclining chair is breaking. Found another stool at a Winners store that I can carry home but I need to measure the space where I want it. Will do that tonight.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 11:46 PM

I only painted one side of what would have been my final coat for all doors/shelves/discs today. Two of the four doors are good, so I only have the two large doors under the kitchen sink left to work on. One could just use a last coat to finish hiding the damage because it was broke. The other one is STILL bleeding through in two spots.

But I had to switch to only giving those doors 1 coat on one side per day. They're the heaviest of the bunch being so much larger and I noticed that I was getting faint lines of the padded paint cans showing up on the back side when trying to do two sides per day.

That's alright though. I still haven't fleshed out the bottom cabinets so I can give the outsides a final coat anyhow, so those doors aren't going up any time soon.

More importantly, with those being the only two doors still down in the basement for paint shifts, I'll have plenty of room to do the cuts I need to do for the bottom cabinets with my miter saw without risking contaminating the painting station.

I just finally got around to vacuuming out the top cabinets and filling them up with stuff (after dusting everything off).

THERE'S NOTHING ON MY LIVING ROOM FLOOR NOW FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE JANUARY!!!!

I took the time to go through my vitamins and medicine stuff before putting it back in. Most of it had to be tossed. I think half of it had expiration dates before I bought the house. What a waste of money.

Once I get the bottom cabs finished I have to go through the two boxes I packed away in the attic and see what if anything there I'm going to keep, and then go through my cleaning products and pitch some stuff too. I'm sure half of that stuff is at least 10 years old and won't ever get used too. The dollar store cleaners are amazing and I've kind of been using them for everything these days.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 20, 2021 11:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Foot stool that was given to me last year with sort of reclining chair is breaking. Found another stool at a Winners store that I can carry home but I need to measure the space where I want it. Will do that tonight.

Good luck.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 12:49 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Some new A/C technology which does not dehumidify. Defies the physical laws of refrigerant and cooling.

It doesn't get the proper combination of cold/ humid enough to condense water out of the air. For example, right now my AC is set for 73F (for the night. I raise it to 78F during the day.). The dew point according to Wundergound is 57F. Can you understand that the current AC temp is too high to condense water out of the air in the room?

Quote:
I already stated that air comes out of an air conditioner at 60 degrees. If not, it is not working.

60F is still too warm to condense water out of the air at today's dew point.

Anyway, when the AC is on, it reduces the room temp so that it's much more humid. But it doesn't drop the AC temp low enough to dehumidify the air.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 1:08 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Like I said, I don't like spending other people's money anymore than I enjoy other people trying to spend mine, but if you didn't save for a retirement where you weren't constantly drenched in sweat in your 115 degree kitchen, what were you saving for?

Well, my house was built in ~1915 (even before there was indoor plumbing here!). And it doesn't have the duct work for central anything.

What can I say? A few years ago I did work/ had work done - took out all the remaining moldy lathe and plaster and the moldy drywall covering it up (it looks like there was a lot of water damage from whatever caused the charring in the attic framing), removed the exterior lead paint and repainted the house, removed flooring and had new flooring put down, had all the old galvanized pipe replace with copper ... stuff like that. Then a few years after that I had the roof replaced. Then I completely got taken over by pain, and nothing got done while I was still working.

But ductwork and AC - it's on my list! along with a metric crap-ton of other projects that I'm working on.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 1:40 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
SIX: Even if Kiki pays 22 cents per kwh for A/C which seems to be on the high end in California, that's less than 9 cents per kwh more than I'm paying here now.

SIX: Surely you jest!

Here, in SCE territory, we're on a TOU plan. It costs 27cents per KWH during off-peak hours, and 43cents per KWH during peak hours (2PM to 8PM). Rates are going up again this year.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 9:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
SIX: Even if Kiki pays 22 cents per kwh for A/C which seems to be on the high end in California, that's less than 9 cents per kwh more than I'm paying here now.

SIX: Surely you jest!

Here, in SCE territory, we're on a TOU plan. It costs 27cents per KWH during off-peak hours, and 43cents per KWH during peak hours (2PM to 8PM). Rates are going up again this year.

Jesus.

Well, that's not what the internets said. But they were wrong about my price too. But they were only off by about 3.5 cents on mine.

Not trying to spend your money again here, but maybe with the big housing boom and all it's time you and Kiki looked into re-locating from California to a place that's a little more retirement friendly like Arizona or Florida?

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Well, my house was built in ~1915 (even before there was indoor plumbing here!). And it doesn't have the duct work for central anything.

What can I say? A few years ago I did work/ had work done - took out all the remaining moldy lathe and plaster and the moldy drywall covering it up (it looks like there was a lot of water damage from whatever caused the charring in the attic framing), removed the exterior lead paint and repainted the house, removed flooring and had new flooring put down, had all the old galvanized pipe replace with copper ... stuff like that. Then a few years after that I had the roof replaced. Then I completely got taken over by pain, and nothing got done while I was still working.

But ductwork and AC - it's on my list! along with a metric crap-ton of other projects that I'm working on.

I just can't believe that with near-zero rain and constant drought conditions you're living in a situation where humidity would somehow preclude you from being able to adequitely cool your living space with a few decent window A/C units.

Is the one you have really old?

I'm asking because the one my parents gave me was extremely "dumb". The one I got now has temperature sensors. You can have it go off at timed intervals you set, or you can put the "ECO" function on and as soon as the space you're cooling gets to the temp you set it at, it will automatically shut off.

If you had several of the smaller ones around the house and kept all the doors open (at least to rooms you'd want to be cool), you should be able to live comfortably.

Your summer is a LOT longer than mine is. I wish you'd look into it or give it a shot. I put myself through misery for 8 years here because I was stubborn. I thought it would be super expensive to run window units. If you remember, I even put that blower motor in my attic and had it pull air out of my house all night (which actually cost more than running the A/C does and was only 1/4 as effective since it did nothing for the humidity). The days were still miserable.

Not only did it cost more, but I'm sure all that rattling going around 8 to 12 hours every night on my porch overhang didn't do me any favors with my attic walls warping like they have. They were fine up until after I'd done that.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 10:44 AM

Since the thunderstorms last night cooled everything off, I think I'm going to take a break from the kitchen and do some building today.

Last year I built 3 benches out of scrap lumber and some really nice pallets I had from an old job that really saved my butt when the porch floor collapsed. They are easy to stack on top of each other and make a shelving system with. They've been a great way to keep my paint organized inside the house (and off of the floor in case of water) so it doesn't get ruined in the cold winter and out of the way.

I want three more of them.

As I was putting things away yesterday I finally made up my mind that I'm tired of having a bunch of tools filling up the pantry that I'd like to get around to doing work on one of these days, and my entire curio cabinet in the kitchen has basically become my shelving unit for my power tools.

I want to do some repairs to that now and re-paint it before putting on contact paper on the shelves and my new oil rubbed bronze hardware. I could actually start using it for something other than tool storage. It's far too nice looking for that when it's finished.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 1:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Foot stool that was given to me last year with sort of reclining chair is breaking. Found another stool at a Winners store that I can carry home but I need to measure the space where I want it. Will do that tonight.

Good luck.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

Thanks the one in the store has an advantage as it is for storage too.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 1:26 PM

We got a real stretch of good and probably hot weather where I am for this week. So, I am out for my walk and get some stuff done.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 3:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Some new A/C technology which does not dehumidify. Defies the physical laws of refrigerant and cooling.
It doesn't get the proper combination of cold/ humid enough to condense water out of the air. For example, right now my AC is set for 73F (for the night. I raise it to 78F during the day.). The dew point according to Wundergound is 57F. Can you understand that the current AC temp is too high to condense water out of the air in the room?
Quote:
I already stated that air comes out of an air conditioner at 60 degrees. If not, it is not working.
60F is still too warm to condense water out of the air at today's dew point.

Anyway, when the AC is on, it reduces the room temp so that it's much more humid. But it doesn't drop the AC temp low enough to dehumidify the air.

I said 60 degrees F is the OUTPUT of the Air Conditioner.
IF this was at 100% RH (which it never is), then when this air becomes 70 degrees F it would be 70% RH, and when this air becomes 80 degrees F it would be 51% RH.
If somebody could read your mind, they would know which of these theoretical situations applied to you, making you think "humid."

But the Evaporator coils are much cooler. The refrigerant is known to flash-freeze skin on contact, and many folk have seen coils ice up - which would indicate temps below 32 degrees F. R-134a has a boiling point of 40% at around 68 psi - where the compressor keeps the pressure when entering the Evaporation Coils.
So in order for a working Air Conditioner to NOT dehumidify the air, the Dew Point would need to be below 40 degrees F.

For folk who are reading along, whoever thinks that a Dew Point of 40 degrees F is uncomfortably humid can now commiserate with you.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 3:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
JSF: I'm absolutely certain that KIKI has a good grasp of how an AC unit works, and what happens to air moisture. You have tremendous practical knowledge but missing some basic physics facts.

Saturated air at about 70F can hold 1.47 wt% water. It is at 100% relative humidity.

Saturated air at about 100F can hold 4.41 wt% water. It is also at 100% relative humidity.

If you run that 100F saturated (100% RH) air thru your standard AC (not a swamp cooler) and it comes out at 70F, that extra 2.94% water will indeed condense out, but it will STILL come out at 1.47% moisture (100% RH).

There is a difference between dehumidifiers and air conditioners.
Quote:
In a dehumidifier, humid air is taken in over the evaporator coil. It then goes through the condenser coil and is then released as regular air back into the area. It is warmer air than the room temperature once it passes over the condenser coil.

https://upgradedhome.com/air-conditioner-vs-dehumidifier/
So a dehumidifier condenses out the water, but then it REWARMS the air to reduce the relative humidity.

An AC unit chills the air, and condenses water, but because the air has been chilled its ability to hold moisture has been reduced, and therefore the relative humidity goes up.

I tried contorting my mind to conform your post to reality. So much conflict with reality.
Parts of what you said could be interpreted as layman's view, which would be a backwards method of explanation, albeit factually acceptable.

But I cannot blame you. Searching around, I find that the interwebs are awash in lies and fiction about Air Conditioners (and dehumidifiers, which are actually the same thing). The interwebs are a gold mine for the gullibles to believe any lie that Big Tech Media pronounces as the designated Fake Truth. So much I see is absolutely the opposite of truth, with details descriptions and diagrams of how Laws of Physics are suspended and turned upside down. One claimed to be describing a Carrier design, but explained that it functions in the opposite of reality.

Perhaps it would help if I link a couple of fairly accurate descriptions, with mostly minor errors.
One is from Carrier, who invented Air Conditioners.
https://www.carrier.com/residential/en/us/products/air-conditioners/ho
w-do-air-conditioners-work/

And which includes a fairly decent drawing:
https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2016/11/f34/HomeCooling101.
pdf

Air Conditioners and Dehumidifiers are actually the same process, but merely different in how the process is applied.

Linear Function:
1. The secret ingredient is the refrigerant. A refrigerant is key because it has a boiling far lower than what we commonly understand in everyday life. R-134a has a boiling point of -15 degrees F at 1 psi, and -26 at 0 psi. Nitrogen has a boiling point of -320 degrees F.
2. Starting with the Compressor. The Compressor compresses, not expands. The medium being compressed is the refrigerant. The output of the compressor goes to a really long tube called the Condensor.
3. The other end of this really long tube has a restriction, like a capillary tube, or a valve (which is called an Evaporator Valve, at the end of the Condensor tube). This holds compressed refrigerant, pressurized. You can think of it like a radiator or heat exchanger, with parallel channels, maybe heat sink fins - like in a car. Or radiator with linear piping, like in a home. All three versions are pressurized, and must release heat energy. With A/C, the refrigerant as compressed wants to return to liquid form, and must release heat energy to convert from gaseous state to liquid state. This is the condensation of the refrigerant, occurring in the Condenser. To save space and make heat exchange easier, this long tube is coiled in shape, and is commonly called the Condenser Coil.
4. At the capillary tube, the refrigerant is liquid and under pressure, and this refrigerant enters the Evaporator.
5. The Evaporator is a long tube which is not under great pressure or compression. This lack of pressure allows the refrigerant to expand. This expansion causes the refrigerant to convert from liquid to gaseous state, which is called boiling. This change of states requires heat, and heat is sucked from it's immediate environment. To save space and effect air transfer, this long tube is formed into a coil. It is called the Evaporator Coil, and it sucks heat energy in order to evaporate the refrigerant inside the tube.
6. At the end of this long Evaporator tube, the uncompressed refrigerant is available to be sucked into the Compressor intake. This Evaporator tube is also sometimes called the vacuum side of the operation. The diagrams which show this as the Compressed side of the Compressor are dead wrong.

The Condenser Coil must give off heat energy, or the entire system will not work properly. In an Air Conditioner, this heat is dissipated by use of a fan, usually on the outside of the building, and this is the Condenser Fan, which blows hot air to the outside environment.

The Evaporator Coil must consume heat energy, because the compression of the refrigerant has been released. In an Air Conditioner, this heat is provided by indoor air being blown across the Evaporator Coil via a Blower Fan. After this heat has been provided from the indoor air, laymen call this "cool air" - which is then recirculated to the indoor area, to be replaced with more hot or warm air to supply the Evaporator with more heat.

In a Dehumidifier, this entire operation is the same, with one small exception. The Condenser Coils and Evaporator Coils are not on opposite sides of a vapor/temperature barrier, like a building wall. They are both in the same unit. Often, one fan is used to move the air. The removal of humidity still happens on the final stage of the process, the Evaporator Coils, but after this "cool air, less water" has passed through the Evaporator Coil, it is available to cool off the Condenser Coil. The Condenser Coil is still the primary function of the system, behind the Compressor, and it still needs to expel heat energy in order to work properly. So by using the cooled air from the Evaporator, the same fan can pull heat from the Condenser Coils more efficiently - which, in layman's terms, can be though of as "warming the air" instead of it's function of cooling off the Condenser.

So the Air Conditioner has the primary function, hot, pressurized, compressed side of the Condenser on the opposite side of a wall from the vacuum, uncompressed, cold side of the Evaporator.
And the Dehumidifier has the same components, but all in one unit. Now, one might think it more logical to reverse the fan and run the air in the same direction as the functionally linear components, and this would be somewhat true. But when heating the air first over the Condenser and then cooling the air through the Evaporator, would make the critical temperature for pulling the water out of the air much hotter, and less effective.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 4:45 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Jeezus, JSF, you're lecturing to people who know all about refrigerants, refrigerators, all kinds of coolers (including Peltier coolers), humidity and percent moisture measurements, and - in my situation, in any case- have had to convert backwards and forwards between DSCM (dry standard cubic meters) and full- moisture stack gases in cubic feet.

I think I know how to condense moisture and dry gases and how to deal with humidity and moisture calculations for stack gas sampling, home HVAC, and field/meteorological applications.

The fact is that if you cool air but do not reach dew point (ie water does not condense out) relative humidity goes up.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 7:04 PM

Well, I got the foot stool from Winners, it is a little taller than I thought but that is alright. I moved the other one under my computer table. Though I think I pulled my right wrist a little bit.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 7:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Well, I got the foot stool from Winners, it is a little taller than I thought but that is alright. I moved the other one under my computer table. Though I think I pulled my right wrist a little bit.

Glad it fit. Sorry to hear about the wrist though. :(

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 7:59 PM

Built my benches/shelving units today. Got rid of another pallet and a lot of scrap wood I'd taken from somewhere years ago that was just taking up space, so that's always good.

Got most of the stuff out of the pantry and off of the curio cabinet. I'm going to do the rest later.

Now that I'm basically done with the painting of the shelves and the doors except for the last two big ones giving me stain troubles, I can finally go through all that old paint and throw a bunch of it out and take an inventory of what I've got and need. I'd been using a lot of them to rest the doors and shelves on with some padding on top. I know some of that paint was from 9 or so years ago and spent a few winters out in the garage when I didn't know you shouldn't do that, so it's probably bad.

After I get that paint out of there, there should be plenty of room for every tool and material I want to keep in the house on the 6 shelves down there now.

Managed to mow the back yard today too.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 8:28 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

JSF

You know nothing about MY AC, which is NOT an outdoor unit with the coils far far away from the outlet. In fact, it's an indoor on-the-floor semi-portable unit (with a hot-air exhaust vent through the window) with the coils 1.5" from the formal outlet, a set of broad, motor-driven louvers. And while it does have a hookup to drain condensation (also running out through the window) I have never seen moisture by the drain. And there are no plants growing there, indicating there's no long-term moisture either.

With the exception of rare weather events, SoCal for the most part doesn't have the ambient humidity the rest of the country has. Right now, when it's 84F at the nearest Wunderground station and when my AC would be running, the RH is 38%. The dew point is 55F.

Tonight, when the ambient temp drops to 64F, as well as my indoor temp after the house cools down when I open up all the windows etc, and the RH goes up to 48% --- the dew point is STILL 55F, and the AC is NOT running.

The important temp to note here is the dew point, which, you hopefully know is the relevant figure. And not either during the day when the AC is running, or during the night when the AC happens to not be running, do the coils drop below the dew point.

FWIW I measured the cooling coils backside temp. It was 59F. And that's close to the 55F dewpoint, but still not below it. (I could measure the cooling coil backside temp because the wide louvers allowed me to get a sensor down to them.)

Please, stop flogging a POV that doesn't match the data or my situation. SoCal isn't like your area, its conditions aren't like your conditions, and my AC isn't identical to your theoretical AC.

Unless the cooling coils get below the dew point, they won't act as a dehumidifier. And so my AC does cool down the room, but at the expense of the room RH going up.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 10:41 PM

Oh.......

Portable A/C....

Watch the video. This guy is great, BTW.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 10:50 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

My old windows are from ~1915. (Oh just as aside, my house appears to be a 'kit' house because there is one exactly like it down the street.)

As I found out when taking down the walls, the windows are literally not attached to any framing. Instead, they're nailed into the siding. They would never support an AC unit. Hence, the portable.

Updated framing around the windows. On my list! But since the house became 'historic' during my ownership, I'll probably not be able to replace them. Confirming restrictions on new windows. On my list!

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 10:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Jeezus, JSF, you're lecturing to people who know all about refrigerants, refrigerators, all kinds of coolers (including Peltier coolers), humidity and percent moisture measurements

I think I know how to condense moisture and dry gases and how to deal with humidity and moisture calculations for.... home HVAC

The fact is that if you cool air but do not reach dew point (ie water does not condense out) relative humidity goes up.

Well, jeez. If you already understood that the Dew Point at the coils is 40 degrees F, and you already understand that the output of the A/C is 60 degrees F with an RH of 70%, which when warmed to 70 degrees F is RH 35%, and that Air Conditioners and Dehumidifiers are functionally the same, then I do not understand why you have been posting as if you are dumbfounded by the concepts.
When you keep posting clear info that you don't understand, don't expect others to infer that the polar opposite applies.

Even with this reply post of yours, you both claim to know everything, yet still announce that your confusion regarding how 40 degree F coils do not pull out humidity from 57 dew point air. And you still did not explain that you consider 35% RH at 70 degrees F to be "too humid"
Now we can all understand your confusion.

Among the many types of Air Conditioners that kiki did not inform us about which she had, included Peltier coolers - so I did not infer that she had one for home use.

Even kiki finally admitted that she confirmed her coil is at least down to 59 degrees F, meaning at 70 degrees she has under 70% RH, at 80 degrees she has 50% RH, at 90 degrees she has 35% RH - at least until kiki opens the windows to replentish the humidity.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 11:31 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Under my conditions, with my AC, it still doesn't act as a dehumidifier. And when the room is cooled down, the room gets more humid.

Those are the facts, and all of your snark doesn't change the facts.

You made blanket assumptions that my AC would dry the air, because you erroneously believe all AC dries the air, everywhere. Or else I had, as you said, "Some new A/C technology which does not dehumidify. Defies the physical laws of refrigerant and cooling."

No, I have no new technology that "Defies the physical laws of refrigerant and cooling." . Just a set of conditions and a particular AC that does NOT, in fact, dehumidify when I used it.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 21, 2021 11:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Well, I got the foot stool from Winners, it is a little taller than I thought but that is alright. I moved the other one under my computer table. Though I think I pulled my right wrist a little bit.

Glad it fit. Sorry to hear about the wrist though. :(

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

The old one fits great under my computer table which is good for me putting my feet up on.

The wrist is already feeling a little better. I let it have a good rest after I did all that and I think it will be okay.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 22, 2021 12:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

My old windows are from ~1915. (Oh just as aside, my house appears to be a 'kit' house because there is one exactly like it down the street.)

As I found out when taking down the walls, the windows are literally not attached to any framing. Instead, they're nailed into the siding. They would never support an AC unit. Hence, the portable.

Updated framing around the windows. On my list! But since the house became 'historic' during my ownership, I'll probably not be able to replace them. Confirming restrictions on new windows. On my list!

Uncle Bob lived in California too!!!

How handy are you???

Perhaps you could build a support unit outside of the window to shoulder the bulk of the weight of the window unit?

It was something I was considering doing for my unit when I purchased a bigger one, but it would have required a huge platform since I put it on the 2nd floor and it turned out that I was able to mount it just fine without one.

If yours is on the first floor, a few 4'x4's a flat top and some minor support brackets halfway down the legs ought to do ya.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 22, 2021 2:54 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
SIGNYM:
Jeezus, JSF, you're lecturing to people who know all about refrigerants, refrigerators, all kinds of coolers (including Peltier coolers), humidity and percent moisture measurements

I think I know how to condense moisture and dry gases and how to deal with humidity and moisture calculations for.... home HVAC

The fact is that if you cool air but do not reach dew point (ie water does not condense out) relative humidity goes up.

JSF: Well, jeez. If you already understood that the Dew Point at the coils is 40 degrees F, and you already understand that the output of the A/C is 60 degrees F with an RH of 70%, which when warmed to 70 degrees F is RH 35%, and that Air Conditioners and Dehumidifiers are functionally the same, then I do not understand why you have been posting as if you are dumbfounded by the concepts.

How do I "know" this? Whether the coil condenses out moisture or not depends on the moisture content and temperature of the air coming in, and whether the coil reaches the dew point depends on the efficiency of the AC. But according to the AC guy who came to replace our compressor, you can generally expect a 20 degree drop in temp across the evap coils. So if the temp outside in 100 and the dew point is 40, then the temp coming at the coils is 80F ... far far away from any possible condensation.

And if the temp drops at night to 80, and the AC manages to cool the air to 60F, then the temp is STILL above the dew point of 40F.

Right?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 22, 2021 3:27 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Ok, let me put it this way:

Dew point is like temperature: It's a measurement of outdoor air, and has nothing to do with any specific air conditioner. If you go to wunderground.com and do a search on any los angeles zip code, and call up the 10-day forecast, you'll see lines curving up and down for temperature, "feels like", and DEW POINT.

If the temperature is 100F and the dew point is 40F, you would have to cool the air all the way down to 40F to get condensation. And unless water is condensed, moisture content will not be reduced.

Is a normal AC unit capable of cooling air from 100F to 40F?

OTOH, if the temperature is 80F and the dew point is 65F, what are the chances that an AC unit will condense water out of the air?

I DID appreciate the discussion, tho.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 22, 2021 8:16 AM

It's a discussion that didn't even need to be had, honestly.

We didn't know that Kiki was using a portable A/C unit. They are the product of flawed engineering just a step or two above swamp coolers. Not the worst thing in the world if you're looking for a little additional cooling in a spot of a house that already has proper A/C, but virtually ineffective if it's your only means of cooling.

If Kiki can manage to find a way to get a window unit or two installed on the bad windows until she can get duct work in place for a central air system, she won't be looking at 115 degree temps in her kitchen anymore.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 22, 2021 10:00 AM