REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

new deadly human-to-human-transmissible coronavirus emerges out of China

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Thursday, September 5, 2024 19:55
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 130742
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Sunday, February 28, 2021 5:45 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Oh, btw Jack - I saw that you posted AND included a lot of links. And I really appreciate it!

Unfortunately, right at this very moment I have stuff that'll be keeping me busy for a number of days. I'll get back to you, read your post carefully, follow up on your links, and respond - on topic, in detail - just not right away.

But I will engage in discussion like I think we both want, I promise.

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Sunday, February 28, 2021 8:21 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Sounds good. I'm not going anywhere.




--------------------------------------------------

A government is a body of people usually, notably, governed by Mark Zuckerborg and Slack Dorsey.

Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 4:35 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



I was hoping to sit down in a concentrated session and read these as a body, but that's not going to happen soon. So I'll go through them one by one as I have time.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/life/article/Peter-Hotez-fight-for-sc
ience-COVID-houston-texas-15982489.php


Quote:

He asked his wife, Ann, what he should do. Speak out, she said. “You don’t want to wake up in a year and see the body count and know that you didn’t do all you could to prevent it.”
Behind a paywall.

alternate source
https://www.pressreader.com/usa/san-antonio-express-news-sunday/202102
28/282286732995081


Quote:

You could stumble around with a blindfold on and find a dozen articles per day sharing that sentiment.
??? It's a very truncated story about a vaccine expert in Texas. I'm not sure what 'sentiment' you're referring to. You'll have to spell it out for me to address it.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 6:44 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

As for requiring people to get vaccinated before going back to work?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/18/require-covid-19-vaccine-for-work-retu
rn-heres-what-americans-say.html


Quote:

57% of workers support a mandatory Covid-19 vaccine for return to office: CNBC Survey

Well, that was "Updated Fri, Dec 18 2020". But in the roughly 3 months since then, attitudes about vaccines may have changed. A lot of people weren't against vaccines pe se - what they were against was going first - being the guinea pigs so to speak. As experience with the vaccines grows, so do people's attitudes.
Quote:

Confidence in coronavirus vaccines has grown with majority now saying they want it
In a Pew Research Center poll* published Friday, 69 percent of U.S. adults surveyed between Feb. 16 and Feb. 21 said they had either already received the vaccine or intended to get the vaccine, an increase from 60 percent who said they planned to get vaccinated in November.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/confidence-in-coronavirus-vacc
ines-has-grown-with-majority-now-saying-they-want-it/ar-BB1ejVFo

* March 5, 2021 Growing Share of Americans Say They Plan To Get a COVID-19 Vaccine – or Already Have
77% think vaccinations will benefit U.S. economy

Quote:


https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2021/03/05/growing-share-of-americ
ans-say-they-plan-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccine--or-already-have
/

Unfortunately I didn't find any equivalent polls about what people think about the workplace and mandatory vaccines. What I DO think is that employers are not really in the habit of caring about what the employees want. So I'm not sure how relevant an opinion poll about that would be.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 9:45 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

I was hoping to sit down in a concentrated session and read these as a body, but that's not going to happen soon. So I'll go through them one by one as I have time.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/life/article/Peter-Hotez-fight-for-sc
ience-COVID-houston-texas-15982489.php


Quote:

He asked his wife, Ann, what he should do. Speak out, she said. “You don’t want to wake up in a year and see the body count and know that you didn’t do all you could to prevent it.”
Behind a paywall.

alternate source
https://www.pressreader.com/usa/san-antonio-express-news-sunday/202102
28/282286732995081


Quote:

You could stumble around with a blindfold on and find a dozen articles per day sharing that sentiment.
??? It's a very truncated story about a vaccine expert in Texas. I'm not sure what 'sentiment' you're referring to. You'll have to spell it out for me to address it.




The "sentiment" is that there are stories all over the place where people are suggesting that we need to require people to be vaccinated before they go back to work, or kids to be vaccinated before they go back to school. Short of that, we need to try our best to DEEPLY shame anyone who won't get them otherwise we will feel the guilt that more people died and we sat back and did nothing about it.

Quote:

Well, that was "Updated Fri, Dec 18 2020". But in the roughly 3 months since then, attitudes about vaccines may have changed. A lot of people weren't against vaccines pe se - what they were against was going first - being the guinea pigs so to speak. As experience with the vaccines grows, so do people's attitudes.


That's not arguing my point. In fact, that's validating it.

The number of people so terrified of the virus that they'll do anything to get the shot hasn't grown. But the number of people who are so desperate to get back to life before Covid has. For them, getting this shot and just getting it over with is the decision they've made out of that desperation.

TPTB won't move on to any harsher measures until they run out of people who willingly walk up to them with their arms stuck out for the shot.

Quote:

Unfortunately I didn't find any equivalent polls about what people think about the workplace and mandatory vaccines. What I DO think is that employers are not really in the habit of caring about what the employees want. So I'm not sure how relevant an opinion poll about that would be.


That's besides the point.

My point is that it's no different to for a company to force vaccination mandates on the employees than it is for a company to silence free speech. Both of them let the government off the hook for it. One can't argue that one is wrong and the other is completely a-okay.


--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 10:14 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Oh... Don't know if you just happened to start looking at the articles when I mentioned them last night in the other thread by coincidence, or if you after I posted in the other thread, but I'll re-post them here just to have them in the same spot.


POST 1:

Don't know if you ever got around to reading those links you said you were going to read Kiki, but here's another brick in the "we're going to punish you if you don't submit and get vaccinated" wall...

https://apnews.com/article/cdc-fully-vaccinated-can-gather-without-mas
ks-b9775dcde0254037e012ea9447e49917


Quote:

Fully vaccinated people can gather without masks, CDC says



The implication, of course, being that if you're not than you can't.






POST 2:

I wonder when they're going to start bandying around the term "Bio-Terrorist" when referring to people who won't get vaccinated.




--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 10:37 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


And here's some other articles to look at when you get the time.

I think my biggest point here is that whether or not Our government chooses to get involved, it's going to be happening at some point. I guess at that point I'll have to start letting everyone know how bad life gets for people who won't get the vaccine.

Maybe if I'm lucky, they decide at some point that enough people have gotten the vaccine before they move on to some real draconian measures.



U.S. News...

March 10th:

https://web.archive.org/web/20210310152400if_/https://www.washingtonpo
st.com/business/what-are-vaccine-passports-and-how-would-they-work/2021/03/09/925e9f98-814f-11eb-be22-32d331d87530_story.html


Quote:

What Are Vaccine Passports and How Would They Work?
By Iain Marlow and Jason Gale | Bloomberg

With millions being vaccinated against Covid-19 every day, some political and business leaders are suggesting nations can help get life back to normal by rolling out a so-called vaccine passport: an easily accessible and verifiable certification that a person’s been inoculated. Private companies are already beginning to look at making shots mandatory for people who want to get on planes, cruise ships or attend events such as concerts. A handful of projects from governments, private firms and international associations are currently underway. But the idea raises scientific and ethical questions.



March 10th:

https://money.yahoo.com/70-of-employees-believe-vaccines-should-be-req
uired-before-returning-to-office-glassdoor-140002698.html


Quote:

70% of employees believe vaccines should be required before returning to office: Glassdoor
Reggie Wade

It’s no secret that people have an array of opinions when it comes to the COVID-19 vaccine. According to a recent survey from online job site Glassdoor, a whopping 70% of employees believe that they should be required to get a vaccine before returning to the office.




March 4th:

https://www.live5news.com/2021/03/04/sc-lawmakers-introduce-bill-preve
nt-mandatory-covid-vaccines
/

Quote:

SC lawmakers debating bill to make sure all COVID-19 vaccinations are voluntary



COLUMBIA, S.C. (WCSC) - There is no state mandate in South Carolina for anyone to get the COVID-19 vaccine, but some South Carolinians are worried their jobs will force them to get the shot.

More than half of all South Carolinians will be eligible to receive the COVID-19 vaccine once the state transitions into phase 1B on March 8.

While some will be rushing to get the vaccine, others are praying the vaccine will not be forced on them.





March 5th:

https://www.parents.com/health/will-the-covid-19-vaccine-be-mandatory-
for-kids
/

Quote:


Will the COVID-19 Vaccine Be Mandatory for Kids?

With three COVID-19 vaccines approved for emergency use authorization, many parents are wondering if vaccination will be mandated by the government, schools, or employers. Here’s what you need to know.






British News... Where the freedom of choice seems a bit more grim.


March 5th:

https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-55718553

Quote:

'Vaccine passports': Will I need one for going out, work and travel?

It's prompted more debate on whether "vaccine passports" could become a feature of foreign travel, and even be used within the UK to allow entry to places like pubs or sports stadiums.




March 10th:

https://archive.vn/AYkB1

Quote:

No jab, no job: As British companies move to mandate coronavirus vaccines for employees, discrimination fears mount

Some British companies are planning to give their workers a stark choice this year: Accept the coronavirus vaccine or lose your job.
Labor rights groups have come out against the policy, dubbed “jabs for jobs,” arguing that mandatory vaccines would not stop the spread of the virus but could lead to discrimination on socio-economic and ethnic grounds.




--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 3:51 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Just a couple of quick comments:

We both got our second shot and except for a mildly sore arm, and hubby's stuffy nose, so far no side effects.

If "vaccine passports" are a thing of the future, they're going to have to make them difficult to counterfeit, like $20 bills and driver's licences. (Meanwhile, your Social Security card is nothing more than thin cardboard, so fragile that they make plastic sleeves to protect them.) Right now, all I have is a "vaccination record" to carry around with me with my name on it. When paired with a durable photo ID, and linked the the HCP database it may be clunky but workable in small scale


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 4:08 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

6 - The "sentiment" is that there are stories all over the place where people are suggesting that we need to require people to be vaccinated before they go back to work, or kids to be vaccinated before they go back to school. Short of that, we need to try our best to DEEPLY shame anyone who won't get them otherwise we will feel the guilt that more people died and we sat back and did nothing about it.
Where in the article did it even imply that? Vaccines save lives. It's that simple, really. But nowhere was it even implied COVID-19 vaccines *should* be required for anything, by anyone.
Quote:

k - Well, that was "Updated Fri, Dec 18 2020". But in the roughly 3 months since then, attitudes about vaccines may have changed. A lot of people weren't against vaccines pe se - what they were against was going first - being the guinea pigs so to speak. As experience with the vaccines grows, so do people's attitudes.
Quote:

6 - That's not arguing my point. In fact, that's validating it.
You mean people SHOULDN'T LEARN FROM DIRECTLY OBSERVED EXPERIENCE? That people they know who get the vaccine don't sprout green horns with purple spots, and nobody is being turned into a Bill Gates zombie? Whyever would you think that experience shouldn't change people's minds? It's pretty natural to be hesitant about something unknown. But once you get some history with it, and it's proved itself to be within reason, the fears of the unknown SHOULD subside. Because if they don't, then that's a disconnect from reality.
Quote:

6 - The number of people so terrified of the virus that they'll do anything to get the shot hasn't grown. But the number of people who are so desperate to get back to life before Covid has. For them, getting this shot and just getting it over with is the decision they've made out of that desperation.
How do you know that? Where's your evidence? You're doing WISHI mind-reading and that seems to be a really bad way of getting information.
Quote:

6 - My point is that it's no different to for a company to force vaccination mandates on the employees than it is for a company to silence free speech. Both of them let the government off the hook for it. One can't argue that one is wrong and the other is completely a-okay.
And nowhere in either post that I've read so far does it say anything about employers requiring vaccinations. Yes, I think they can Constitutionally do that. And they might do that, eventually. OR, they just might replace people with robots wherever they can, like Amazon 'fulfillment' centers. But it has nothing to do with what people want or fear. You know, look at all the people who died in the meat-processing places around the country, where people came to work scared they'd be the next ones to get sick, and maybe even die. Mangers at one plant even had a betting pool on how many would get sick. https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2020/11/19/tyson-foods-manager
s-placed-bets-on-how-many-workers-would-catch-covid-19-wrongful-death-lawsuit-alleges
Does that sound like they cared all that much about the people who worked there - their health and lives, let alone their fears and wishes?

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 4:17 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



So, no, I'm going going to chase after your ever expanding list of links, though I will read the original set eventually. But so far, your links don't show what you claim.


But I have a completely separate question for you. Are you against THIS vaccine in particular, or all vaccines in general?

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 4:39 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


That's okay if you don't read them. You didn't read the first ones I produced, or you're intentionally misinterpreting them.

They say exactly what I say they said.




--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 4:46 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Well, then find quotes that directly say what you imagine those articles are saying. Because I'm not finding anything like what you claim is there.
For example this quote
Quote:

He asked his wife, Ann, what he should do. Speak out, she said. “You don’t want to wake up in a year and see the body count and know that you didn’t do all you could to prevent it.”
And what did he do, specifically? He went to various media to explain directly to the audiences about the benefits of vaccines. Is information from an expert a bad thing? And he directed his company to focus on creating a vaccine. That's it. Nowhere does it say he promoted involuntary vaccination, or campaigned lawmakers to do that. So, what's the problem? Try to explain it to me.


BTW, I DID read your first 2 links and replied directly to them, with quotes ans specifics. I even took the trouble to get past the paywall in your first link in order to read it. AND I provided that link to anyone else interested in it. Your claim that I didn't read them is just so much gafla, Jack.



So, since you seem to have a problem with the COVID-19 vaccine, I'm asking - again: do you have issues with JUST the COVID-19 vaccines, or with all vaccines?

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 6:47 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I'm not an anti-vaxxer, if that's what you're asking me.


You tell me specifically what you take issue with that I'm saying, and I'll find you a quote. Otherwise I'm not going to play your little game here and we'll just see where the future leads us.

I'm not often wrong about it.



In the meantime, you go ahead and keep pretending that the media stories coming out aren't saying that corporations plan to and/or should require vaccinations before people come to work. There were a lot that already came out that aren't on the lists I gave you, and there will be plenty more where they came from.

So you go right on ahead and pretend that the reason you're not going to read the ones I already provided you with is because you're simply too busy to. It not my job to force a horse to drink after leading them to the water.




--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 6:55 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



First link, your comment:
Quote:

You could stumble around with a blindfold on and find a dozen articles per day sharing that sentiment.
That in general vaccines are a good thing? Well, yes they are! They have a long history of being helpful, ever since Jenner replaced being 'inoculated' with smallpox with being inoculated with cow pox. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Jenner

If you're not an anti-vaxer, why do you have a problem with that sentiment?

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 6:56 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

First link, your comment:
Quote:

You could stumble around with a blindfold on and find a dozen articles per day sharing that sentiment.
That vaccines are a good thing?



Nope. Try again.


--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Well, what is the sentiment YOU'RE seeing in that article, that you say is everywhere? Explain, please.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:16 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


What she told her husband is what the media is suggesting that EVERYONE who is getting vaccinated do to anybody who isn't getting vaccinated. And also doing to them what she did to him.

Guilt them.

Guilting him to guilt them.



Here's the steps, if you missed me talk about them before.


STEP 1: Give the vaccine to the 50 to 60% of people who are terrifed of the virus and would do anything to get it.

STEP 2: Give the vaccine to the 15 to 20% of people who are just so f-ing tired of how we've been forced to live the last year that they just want it to go away and will get vaccinated so they can get back to their old lives.

(Steps one and two will have quite a bit of overlap, both in the timeframe and/or like-mindedness.)

STEP 3: Guilt the shit of the remaining people. Not all of them will be guilted into it. But some of them will.

STEP 4: Ruin the lives of people who still refuse. This can be done, and will be done, in a variety of ways. (This can only begin once there is a legitimate surplus of vaccinations without any remaining demand for them).

One of the biggest will be by allowing corporations to force vaccinations otherwise face termination from your job (the article from South Carolina I posted earlier today is actually about a bill being considered in the state to PROHIBIT companies in the state from doing this).

But then there's just the general guilting that will never end until the media stops talking about it. If you haven't been paying attention to the way these things work online the last few years, that guilting will quickly turn to HATE. This is going to make for a very hostile work environment for many people at this point. Imagine the RWED, but in a live office setting... in every workplace around the country. (and with weak-minded, terrified people truly believing that somebody like me is threatening their life by my mere presence in front of them without having had the shots).

If they really want to make the issue bad, they'll start instituting an ID card... maybe even provide you with a handy little lanyard to wear it like a dog collar whenever you leave your home.

Worst case is that when enough people have already gotten it and the rest refuse that the Legacy Media starts referring to those who resist vaccination as Bio Terrorists.


--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:29 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



She said something to her husband that resonated with him, since he truly WAS in a position to do something about SARS-CoV-2, due to his professional expertise and standing, as well as his business resources. The question is - what did he DO? Well, he informed a lot of people about vaccinations. And his company developed and produced a vaccine. It's a far cry from that to claiming he was promoting mandatory vaccination.


I think 'guilt' only works if people recognize a truth in it, and if one cares about others. I would feel guilty if I decided to just not care about COVID-19, and then I carried COVID-19 to a vulnerable person who subsequently had serious consequences - death, an ICU ordeal, or even a mild case followed by long COVID. Because, well, I would be guilty of doing that - of causing harm to others through my choices.

How about you?

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:32 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

She said something to her husband that resonated with him, since he truly WAS in a position to do something about SARS-CoV-2, due to his professional expertise and standing, as well as his business resources.



You're far too stuck on this ONE particular story. Why don't we pretend I didn't post it and you view the other ones, both that I've posted and that come out every day expressing the same sentiment on a much broader scale and not pertaining to one woman and her husband?

(Or just look at the rest of your post below and recognize that this is EXACTLY what you just did to me right now without anybody prompting you to do it)

Congratulations. You're already committing yourself to carrying out STEP 3.

Quote:

I think 'guilt' only works if people recognize a truth in it. I would feel guilty if I decided to just not care about COVID-19, and then I carried COVID-19 to a vulnerable person who subsequently had serious consequences - death, an ICU ordeal, or even a mild case followed by long COVID. Because, well, I would be guilty of doing that - of causing harm to others through my choices.

How about you?



Nope. I'm not going to be blamed for a cancer patient dying of cancer.

Don't forget you're talking to a person who has never once been convinced that a single person has died of Covid*.

Hence why I'm never going to be guilted, and they're going to have to move on to STEP 4 above with me.

And I'm far from alone.




*(And no matter what you think of me because of that doesn't matter as it pertains to the point I'm making here).

--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:45 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Well, the second article you linked - appears to be outdated. But aside from that you seem to think that people wanting vaccinations for everyone at work is ... an expression of guilt?

Anyway, in moving past the first article to the next one, no, it doesn't support your contention that people are being 'guilted'.

Also, you made the leap - which I disputed with evidence! - that employers really give a crap about what their employees want. But that's not true. Employers do what will give them the highest, most immediate profit. If it's making people come in to a COVID-19-ridden workplace - like meat processing plants or 'fulfillment' centers - then that's what they'll do. If it's replacing workers with robots, then that's what they'll do. (And that's already in the works at Amazon. But robots don't have the skill or speed in meat processing plants, so humans will still have to be used. COVID-19 may be used as an excuse, but it isn't the reason.)

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:47 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Anyway, in moving past the first article to the next one, no, it doesn't support your contention that people are being 'guilted'.



Re-read my last post, because I updated it.

You just used STEP 3 on me, and you're not even aware of it.




--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:47 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Since I promised I'd read those links, I'll continue to do that and post my opinions.

But since you don't think COVID-19 exists, I can't see actively discussing this further. It'd be like discussing eastern religions with a Jehovah's witness, or space exploration with a moon-landing conspiracist.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:49 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Since I promised I'd read those links, I'll continue to do that and post my opinions.

But since you don't think COVID-19 exists, I can't see actively discussing this further.




See. This is where you're mistaken.

We're not discussing Covid.

We're discussing how draconian we will allow our futures to become because some people are terrified.




P.S. Congratulations for doing your part and carrying out STEP 3 without even realizing you were doing it.

In doing so, you've completely negated any need to even see any articles where people suggest that STEP 3 be carried out.




--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:52 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



I'll put that in the 'predictions' thread, then.

But I want to remind you that 1) the government already REQUIRES vaccinations to access government services, like schools, so that line has already been crossed decades ago; and 2) businesses will do whatever gets them the best immediate bottom line; they don't act because 'people' are 'terrified'.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:54 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Well I guess that the jack-boot thugs are going to have to come to my door and shoot me then.



Maybe you'll feel a bit of guilt when people actually start dying of "covid" when that starts happening.

Maybe you won't.





In the mean time, don't ever let me hear you bitch again about corporations being allowed to curtail freedom of speech in lieu of the government. Because this issue is no different, even though you really, really want it to be.

--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:56 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



PS
Quote:

STEP 3: Guilt the shit of the remaining people. Not all of them will be guilted into it. But some of them will.
I never said anything about requiring people to get vaccinated, or even said 'people' 'should' do it. I only spoke for myself and what I would feel.

And I ASKED you how you would feel.

Do you think you can speak for just yourself, instead of speaking for me and posting that I said things I never said?

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:57 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

PS
Quote:

STEP 3: Guilt the shit of the remaining people. Not all of them will be guilted into it. But some of them will.
I never said anything about requiring people to get vaccinated, or even said 'people' 'should' do it. I only spoke for myself and what I would feel.

Do you think you can speak for just yourself, instead of speaking for me and posting that I said things I never said?



You just guilted me.

I just quoted you.

STEP 3 Complete.


--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 8:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Yes, because ASKING people to imagine something and how they might feel is imposing guilt.

So much for you being able to discuss ... anything. Let alone you being honest in your postings.

But fwiw I see a lot of the emotional trauma that your mommy dearest put you through. I imagine she made you feel guilty if your brother was having a rough time neurologically. And maybe she even beat you over the care you were giving him. And now, you see it everywhere, even where it doesn't exist.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 8:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



On to the next link:

Quote:

https://www.benefitnews.com/list/can-employers-mandate-workers-be-vacc
inated-before-returning-to-work


Can employers mandate workers be vaccinated before returning to work?

Since I already said that indeed, it's legal for employers to require vaccination, this is really not a point for discussion.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 8:16 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



last link

Quote:

https://www.aarp.org/work/working-at-50-plus/info-2020/employer-requir
e-covid-vaccine.html


Can Your Employer Require You to Get a COVID-19 Vaccine?

This pretty much covers the same ground as the previous link, except it makes the prediction that employers will encourage vaccinations, not require them. Given that I already agreed employers CAN do what they want (with select limits) there seems to be no point for discussion.

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Wednesday, March 10, 2021 8:45 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



As to this post:
Quote:

And yet the vaccination cards that will be issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and other public health agencies worldwide will make enforcing that norm a challenge.
I looked everywhere for information about that. The only thing I came up with is this:
Quote:

Keeping Your Vaccine Records Up to Date
How to Locate Your Vaccination Records
Unfortunately, there is no national organization that maintains vaccination records. The CDC does not have this information. The records that exist are the ones you or your parents were given when the vaccines were administered and the ones in the medical record of the doctor or clinic where the vaccines were given.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/adults/vaccination-records.html

and this:
Quote:

What to do if you lose your COVID-19 vaccine card
Go back to where you got inoculated if you misplace your paper card.
The CDC is not collecting information on who received COVID-19 vaccines, meaning the paper card also works as proof that you've gotten your shot.
https://news.yahoo.com/lose-covid-19-vaccine-card-151700052.html

... which indicate that the CDC is NOT keeping a COVID-19 vaccination 'database', and definitely NOT issuing 'cards'. I don't necessarily believe this just because its been posted. But it should be easy enough to check out if anyone has the time and is willing to spend the effort to track at least one chain of information down to its end. Probably the most telling circumstance would be at a mass vaccination site. That would be a place where there could be a lot of phony driver's licenses or other ID's, and a really poor environment to do due diligence. If databasing COVID-19 vaccinations is going to fail, I think it'd fail there.

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Thursday, March 11, 2021 8:24 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Yes, because ASKING people to imagine something and how they might feel is imposing guilt.



Here's your post:

Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I think 'guilt' only works if people recognize a truth in it. I would feel guilty if I decided to just not care about COVID-19, and then I carried COVID-19 to a vulnerable person who subsequently had serious consequences - death, an ICU ordeal, or even a mild case followed by long COVID. Because, well, I would be guilty of doing that - of causing harm to others through my choices.

How about you?



Don't play games with me. I'm not some idiot like Ted. That post was pure manipulation that said a lot without needing to say it.

"Well I for one would feel guilty about that. Any person who wasn't a total piece of shit would feel guilty about that. How about you? Are you a piece of shit?"

Fuck right off with your guilt trip.

Quote:

So much for you being able to discuss ... anything. Let alone you being honest in your postings.


Telling you that I don't believe a single person died of Covid wasn't honest enough for you?

Quote:

But fwiw I see a lot of the emotional trauma that your mommy dearest put you through. I imagine she made you feel guilty if your brother was having a rough time neurologically. And maybe she even beat you over the care you were giving him. And now, you see it everywhere, even where it doesn't exist.



My mom smoked through all three of her pregnancies and couldn't stop gorging on 10,000 calories worth of M&M's before shoving her fingers down her throat and puking them all up all throughout her pregnancy with him, leading to him being over 3 months premature, weighing less than a pound, spending his first few weeks in this world in a plastic box, and the last 30 years of his life pissed off at the world for the undeniably shitty hand he was dealt in life.

Don't be a cunt.


--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6

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Saturday, March 27, 2021 2:09 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


EXPLAINED: What can the parliament’s inquiry tell us about Sweden’s coronavirus strategy?
https://www.thelocal.se/20210326/explained-ku-what-can-the-parliaments
-inquiry-tell-us-about-swedens-coronavirus-strategy
/

Brazil coronavirus deaths 'biggest genocide in our history': Former President Lula da Silva

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/brazil-coronavirus-deaths-biggest
-genocide-in-our-history-former-president-lula-da-silva
/

France reports 41,869 new coronavirus cases
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/268232372/france-reports-41869-new
-coronavirus-cases


Coronavirus digest: Sweden halts AstraZeneca vaccine use
https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-digest-sweden-halts-astrazeneca-vacc
ine-use/a-56882733

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Saturday, March 27, 2021 2:58 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



It's the same old story around the globe. More cases here, more hospitalizations, and more deaths ... and fewer cases and so on elsewhere.

As sad as it is, nothing is going to change that scenario until the countries get together to finally end it, like they got together to end smallpox.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2021 5:39 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

It's the same old story around the globe. More cases here, more hospitalizations, and more deaths ... and fewer cases and so on elsewhere.

As sad as it is, nothing is going to change that scenario until the countries get together to finally end it, like they got together to end smallpox.


Well, according to Divoc-91) on a normalized basis, in terms of "cases" the nations that REALLY peaked out were Turkey (173 cases per 100,000) and Belgium (155). Czechia had three major waves, all at about 121-125. Hungary is currently peaking at 88.

But, as you know, since "new cases" are subject to how much testing is being done, looking at new deaths (normalized, one week average)...

Currently, Hungary is in its second, higher peak, at 2.5, followed by Bosnia/H, Czechia, Moldova and Brasil. For a developed nation, SWEDEN really rung some bells at 1.3, but is now at 0.16, so they took it on the chin early- twice, and hard. The USA is currently at 0.3.

You have to admit, the vaccine rollout here in the USA is not as munged up as in the EU. We were able to schedule an appointment a month or so after we became eligible, and dear daughter ... because of her neurological condition ... is also eligible and I just found an appointment for her (not thru her regular healthcare provider but thru a pharmacy). Wish I could get the Pfizer for her, bc hubby and I both had the Pfizer shots and they was pretty much non-events, but the only available right now is Moderna.

****

However, I DID find some interesting info on vaccine technology. I know that Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA (NO, it does not change your DNA!) and I know that China uses the inactivated virus, but have been very curious about Sputnik V. The only thing I could find out about it was that it uses the same technology that they used to develop the Ebola vaccine. Which is...???

But, I found this

Quote:

JOHNSON & JOHNSON
Compared to the mRNA vaccines, Johnson & Johnson used a different approach to guard against SARS-2 proteins in your body. J&J’s vaccine was created from what is known as a viral vectored vaccine, where human cells are instructed to make the SARS-2 spike protein, which then triggers an immune response. This approach has been used in a number of vaccines across the years, including the Ebola vaccine from the early 2000s.


https://www.pasadenahealthcenter.com/blog/vaccines/comparing-covid-19-
vaccines-johnson-johnson-vs-moderna-and-pfizer
/

So I assume that's what Sputnik V is.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2021 11:08 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Yes, Sputnik-V is virus-vectored, as are AstraZeneca, J&J, and a few others. They're in DNA form, and attached to the DNA of a modified adenovirus (modified to not be able to reproduce). AFAIK what makes AZ's different is that they used a chimpanzee adenovirus rather than a human one.

Their mode of action is more complex than the RNA vaccines, since the DNA needs to be incorporated into the nucleus where DNA->RNA translators are found. However they are NOT retroviruses and they do NOT insert themselves into human DNA. Once the RNA is created and moved into the cytoplasm, the various vaccines work the same way. (Note that each vaccine probably targets a slightly different portion of the spike protein, so they'll be some immunity differences.)

But since DNA is double-stranded, and it's further encapsulated into the adenovirus, it's FAR more stable on only needs average refrigeration temperatures.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2021 11:53 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I could have had my vaccine weeks ago.

I won't be getting one.

I'm interested to see when they start taking things away from me.


They can have everything but my freedom.



Forced vaccination is Rape.


--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

PSA: Don't click on any links in Second's posts. He's trying to fish your private information out of you.

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Wednesday, March 31, 2021 12:56 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Yes, Sputnik-V is virus-vectored, as are AstraZeneca, J&J, and a few others. They're in DNA form, and attached to the DNA of a modified adenovirus (modified to not be able to reproduce). AFAIK what makes AZ's different is that they used a chimpanzee adenovirus rather than a human one.

Their mode of action is more complex than the RNA vaccines, since the DNA needs to be incorporated into the nucleus where DNA->RNA translators are found. However they are NOT retroviruses and they do NOT insert themselves into human DNA. Once the RNA is created and moved into the cytoplasm, the various vaccines work the same way. (Note that each vaccine probably targets a slightly different portion of the spike protein, so they'll be some immunity differences.)

But since DNA is double-stranded, and it's further encapsulated into the adenovirus, it's FAR more stable on only needs average refrigeration temperatures.

Ok, more explanation is needed.

The only thing that I remember about DNA etc is that "DNA makes RNA, and RNA makes protein" (in the ribosomes). There is some sort of complex "unwrapping" and demethylation - if I understand correctly - of the portion of the DNA that is to be activated, in order to expose it to the DNA>RNA copying process.

So how do you get DNA to make RNA without inserting it into the DNA itself? Isn't that how ALL viruses work?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Saturday, April 3, 2021 4:18 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Not all viruses start at the DNA-> part of the chain DNA-> mRNA-> protein.

SINGLE AND DOUBLE-STRANDED RNA VIRUSES
Some start at single-stranded RNA directly, which acts like messenger RNA. They get into the cytoplasm, hijack the manufacturing facilities with their template, and crank out more of themselves. Some single-stranded RNA viruses are the 'negative sense' of the necessary RNA, and they need to have the complementary RNA created first, which they do with an enzyme they carry on-board. And there are some double-stranded RNA viruses. (Looking at the genetics, apparently double-stranded RNA viruses evolved completely separately two different times, and have very different enzymes and so on, and so there are 2 different classes of double-stranded RNA viruses.)

SINGLE AND DOUBLE-STRANDED DRNA VIRUSES
Then there are DNA viruses. Some are double-stranded DNA, some are single-stranded DNA. The single-stranded DNA viruses need to be re-manufactured into double-stranded DNA first.

RETROVIRUSES
Retroviruses are a completely different class of virus. They start out with RNA genetics - but their genetics are then transcribed into DNA in the nucleus. Since they go through a 'DNA' phase of replication, they're not considered true RNA viruses and are excluded from that classification completely. They also carry an on-board enzyme called integrase that inserts their double-stranded DNA into the host genome.


Nothing about the end-results of evolution is simple! It looks like there are many paths to the same end!

https://www.americanscientist.org/article/viruses-and-vaccines-a-basic
-flowchart-of-viral-families


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Saturday, April 3, 2021 4:42 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Thanks! for the simplified explanation!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Sunday, April 4, 2021 9:44 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Seems we've already moved on to step 4 while step 3 is still going on. In some states were vaccines are rolling out slower, it's also while steps 1 and 2 are still happening.

See my underlined sections of my post here Kiki, and the following exchange with Sigs. She seems to think this is perfectly fine, which is odd, considering her stances on other similar issues.

They're manipulating people through fear. This is an example of that.

Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
What she told her husband is what the media is suggesting that EVERYONE who is getting vaccinated do to anybody who isn't getting vaccinated. And also doing to them what she did to him.

Guilt them.

Guilting him to guilt them.



Here's the steps, if you missed me talk about them before.


STEP 1: Give the vaccine to the 50 to 60% of people who are terrified of the virus and would do anything to get it.

STEP 2: Give the vaccine to the 15 to 20% of people who are just so f-ing tired of how we've been forced to live the last year that they just want it to go away and will get vaccinated so they can get back to their old lives.

(Steps one and two will have quite a bit of overlap, both in the timeframe and/or like-mindedness.)

STEP 3: Guilt the shit of the remaining people. Not all of them will be guilted into it. But some of them will.

STEP 4: Ruin the lives of people who still refuse. This can be done, and will be done, in a variety of ways. (This can only begin once there is a legitimate surplus of vaccinations without any remaining demand for them).

One of the biggest will be by allowing corporations to force vaccinations otherwise face termination from your job (the article from South Carolina I posted earlier today is actually about a bill being considered in the state to PROHIBIT companies in the state from doing this).

But then there's just the general guilting that will never end until the media stops talking about it. If you haven't been paying attention to the way these things work online the last few years, that guilting will quickly turn to HATE. This is going to make for a very hostile work environment for many people at this point. Imagine the RWED, but in a live office setting... in every workplace around the country. (and with weak-minded, terrified people truly believing that somebody like me is threatening their life by my mere presence in front of them without having had the shots).

If they really want to make the issue bad, they'll start instituting an ID card... maybe even provide you with a handy little lanyard to wear it like a dog collar whenever you leave your home.

Worst case is that when enough people have already gotten it and the rest refuse that the Legacy Media starts referring to those who resist vaccination as Bio Terrorists.



Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

6ixStringJack:
I'm fairly confident that I won't be able to get a job once they start forcing vaccines anyhow.
I'm not going to get one. And I will die on that hill if necessary.

SIGNY: Well, that's your problem.

SIX: Not only mine.
It will take a long time for my money to run out and become desperate.
And there's probably a couple of million people who are a lot more fond of fighting than I am too.
Seems my predictions were right about this. Didn't take long for you to jump right on board with the IDs for work, huh?



Well, I don't think "the government" is going to frog-march you into the vaccination center. It will be businesses that will require it before you can get a job, or ... anything. Not because "gubmint" told them so but because they want their customers back.

So are you and the people you claim are on your side going to burn down the nearest Walmart, or Walgreens, like Antifa/BLM?

Good luck with that.

Frankly, I don't care whether you get vaccinated or not. I got mine, and I feel fine. And safer than before. And if there are anti-vaxxers running around with their hair on fire, so what? Not my problem. Your choice. YOUR problem.

So, do you suppose we can start talking about Biden* now?




You're a hypocrite.

You have no problem with businesses raping people with a needle, but you DO have a problem with businesses curbing the freedom of speech.

Hypocrite. Just like Second.




--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

PSA: Don't click on any links in Second's posts. He's trying to fish your private information out of you.

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Sunday, April 4, 2021 10:10 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Oh, and I should add to my reply to sigs, since she asked me a few questions that I didn't answer.

Quote:


So are you and the people you claim are on your side going to burn down the nearest Walmart, or Walgreens, like Antifa/BLM?



Not me. I already put in my previous reply that it will take a far longer time than most before I became desperate.

And also, why do you think it would be some sort of "joke" like Antifa/BLM. We're talking about militant militia groups here. Some of them with at least a screw or two loose. If I had to guess, it's going to look a lot more like the Las Vegas incident a few years back but on methamphetamines.



Quote:

And if there are anti-vaxxers running around with their hair on fire, so what? Not my problem. Your choice. YOUR problem.


I should state AGAIN that I'm not an anti-vaxxer.

I am anti THIS vaccine. And I'm anti people being barred from life unless they do exactly as they're told. Period.

I shouldn't have to repeat myself for YOU about this Sigs, but if you're going start being a hypocrite and behave like Second and Ted when it's about something you have strong feelings about, I feel like I'm obliged to separate myself from actual anti-vaxxers that are no doubt out there and are going to end up doing things that are A LOT scarier than anything that happened over the last year.





--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

PSA: Don't click on any links in Second's posts. He's trying to fish your private information out of you.

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Sunday, April 4, 2021 12:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Oh, and I should add to my reply to sigs, since she asked me a few questions that I didn't answer.

Quote:


So are you and the people you claim are on your side going to burn down the nearest Walmart, or Walgreens, like Antifa/BLM?



Not me. I already put in my previous reply that it will take a far longer time than most before I became desperate.

And also, why do you think it would be some sort of "joke" like Antifa/BLM. We're talking about militant militia groups here. Some of them with at least a screw or two loose. If I had to guess, it's going to look a lot more like the Las Vegas incident a few years back but on methamphetamines.



Quote:

And if there are anti-vaxxers running around with their hair on fire, so what? Not my problem. Your choice. YOUR problem.


I should state AGAIN that I'm not an anti-vaxxer.

I am anti THIS vaccine. And I'm anti people being barred from life unless they do exactly as they're told. Period.

I shouldn't have to repeat myself for YOU about this Sigs, but if you're going start being a hypocrite and behave like Second and Ted when it's about something you have strong feelings about, I feel like I'm obliged to separate myself from actual anti-vaxxers that are no doubt out there and are going to end up doing things that are A LOT scarier than anything that happened over the last year.


SIX, this is one of those issues that IMHO you're being irrational. I know that for a government/business seeking ever-greater control, the motto is Never let a good crisis go to waste. But just bc they can weaponize (or even create) a crisis doesn't mean that the crisis doesn't exist. Despite all evidence, you're in deep denial about the nature of the virus, or that the disease really exists or causes significant excess deaths. There's no talking to you about this rationally.

The Federal government won't... CAN'T ... create a national database of who's been vaccinated and who hasn't. There are too many ppl already vaccinated for the Feds to start NOW; it's far too late and it would be a nightmare to sort out the data already. The only possible programs would be local, or required by business, bc all of the vaccination sites give out easily-forgeable heavy paper cards connected to disparate databases.

It's like a driver's license, yeah? Except on a smaller, more casual scale.

EDITED TO ADD: I'm going to repeat my question here, which is also in the "Biden" thread, so you don't miss it:

You say that you aren't against all vaccines, just THIS one.
Why?
How is this any different than, say, the measles vaccine? Just like Covid-19, measles is highly contagious but the possibility of death from measles is fairly low. As was repeated to me often when I was a child, the reason for the vaccine is to protect pregnant women or ... more specifically ... their unborn babies. A farily narrow segment of the population, and not necessarily those being vaccinated, yeah?

In CA, a child needs a measles vaccination to attend school, and must have a medical exemption from a doctor in order to avoid it. And after the outbreak that we had here in SoCal a few years ago, the state got pretty serious about making sure the medical exemption passed medical muster, not just a boutique scrip written by a friendly family doctor.

So if you accept measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpx, tetanus, polio, etc vaccines, why not this one?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Sunday, April 4, 2021 3:33 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



I think business will be the 'business' end of COVID-19 vaccine requirements, even if government is providing 'technical' support like providing unified formats (by farming it out to businesses, of course). Also, as I've mentioned before, there are no Constitutional protections against businesses doing whatever businesses want in terms of infringing on so-called Constitutional protections ... like free speech for example. Businesses will have a free hand to require whatever they want to require.

And I'm not stating a preference, just pointing out what seem to be the facts.


Vaccines against anything fall under the same category imo, whether they're against measles, rabies, the flu, or COVID-19, in terms of distinguishing 'how they work' biologically-speaking. You get exposed to a non-infectious agent that you develop antibodies to, to provide protection against the real thing.

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Sunday, April 4, 2021 4:14 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SIX, this is one of those issues that IMHO you're being irrational.



If you think I'm the one being irrational, just wait until/if this actually happens.

You're not hearing the dissent online. The media won't report on it and social media removes it as fast as it's posted.

Everybody can pretend that it doesn't exist until it's too late.

Just like everything else.


In the mean time, you're making excuses for our government using corporations to enact their will and skirt around personal freedom because you happen to agree with it this time.

Gross.

Quote:

You say that you aren't against all vaccines, just THIS one.
Why?



DO NOT ask me questions I've already answered before.

My position is crystal clear, and I'm not going to repeat myself. I'm not your dancing monkey.


--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

PSA: Don't click on any links in Second's posts. He's trying to fish your private information out of you.

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Sunday, April 4, 2021 4:36 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Oh. And it's probably at this point that you should all kiss my ass and tell me that I was right.

Just because you both changed your minds about supporting these new tactics, I don't see either of you telling me that I'm wrong about them doing it anymore.

Because you can't. Because I was right.




--------------------------------------------------

" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher

PSA: Don't click on any links in Second's posts. He's trying to fish your private information out of you.

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Sunday, April 4, 2021 5:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Jack, the government using corporations to skirt the Constitution IS NOT NEW.

It's been going on at least since the US PATRIOT ACT v1, the US wiretap at the San Fran AT&T telephone offices, and the US government 'data center' at Utah, all of which got a lot of discussion and reference.

You're just late to the party. I suspect that's because you were SO buried in your state of denial (to deal with your paranoia-triggered anxiety), you decided it didn't matter back then, and you intentionally wrote it off.

**NOW** - when it's about something that's actually penetrated your denial - you've finally come around.

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Sunday, April 4, 2021 7:45 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


It went all the way back to the government using Pinkerton to bust up unions for business, yellow journalism to whip up war frenzy, etc.

SUX, if you've already answered my ?? about how measles vaccine is different from Civid-19 vaccine, I must have missed it. The rationale for vaccination is the same inbith cases. So, what's the diff?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Sunday, April 4, 2021 8:42 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Jack, the government using corporations to skirt the Constitution IS NOT NEW.

It's been going on at least since the US PATRIOT ACT v1, the US wiretap at the San Fran AT&T telephone offices, and the US government 'data center' at Utah, all of which got a lot of discussion and reference.

You're just late to the party. I suspect that's because you were SO buried in your state of denial (to deal with your paranoia-triggered anxiety), you decided it didn't matter back then, and you intentionally wrote it off.

**NOW** - when it's about something that's actually penetrated your denial - you've finally come around.




I don't ever want to hear a fucking word out of either of you about freedom of speech again.


ETA: I have no fucking idea what "denial" you're talking about either. Aside from maybe FREM, I was the loudest voice against the Patriot Act on this whole goddamned site and knew more about it back in the mid 2000's than you could ever pretend to know.

--------------------------------------------------

Imagine the hypocrisy of a government who will allow businesses to card people to get a job or buy groceries, but won't card people to vote in elections and gives millions of non-citizens free money from taxpayers.

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Sunday, April 4, 2021 8:43 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
It went all the way back to the government using Pinkerton to bust up unions for business, yellow journalism to whip up war frenzy, etc.

SUX, if you've already answered my ?? about how measles vaccine is different from Civid-19 vaccine, I must have missed it. The rationale for vaccination is the same inbith cases. So, what's the diff?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.




Looks like you can go back and fucking look for it then.


--------------------------------------------------

Imagine the hypocrisy of a government who will allow businesses to card people to get a job or buy groceries, but won't card people to vote in elections and gives millions of non-citizens free money from taxpayers.

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