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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Short answer: All of the 30+ diseases with their known symptoms and known causes which have, post-1980, been redefined as "AIDS" - even though all of the same exact causes are present, and all of the same exact symptoms are present.

The so-called "AIDS" cases were defined and classed by the "AIDS" advocates to support their AIDS epidemic hysteria, so whatever they used as definition was what was used for the correlation. Since the AIDS hoax was not scientific, it is not like we can retroactively make scientific the illogical diagnosis, they were merely accepted for the criteria of determining correlation.

Somebdy mentioned 2 examples earlier - Kaposi's Sarcoma, and pneumocystis carinii.

I cannot pretend surprise if diarrhea or weight loss were used by AIDS advocates to define their "AIDS" cases, so if that is what the AIDS movement chose to define the cases, then nobody has been able to talk sense into them, then or now.


eta:


WHO’S RECOMMENDED CASE DEFINITION FOR AIDS

Different case definitions are used in different countries, depending on population factors (children, adults, relative occurrence of opportunistic infection) and on the laboratory infrastructure and training available. Current most used case definitions include for countries with... more sophisticated laboratory facilities
CDC 1987 (1)
CDC/CD4 (2)
European (3)

limited laboratory facilities
Abidjan/WHO (4)
Bangui/WHO (clinical) (5)
Caracas/PAHO (6) revised Caracas/PAHO (7)

1. 1987 CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION SURVEILLANCE DEFINITION FOR AIDS

Without laboratory evidence of HIV infection (in the absence of other causes of immune suppression)

Indicator disease diagnosed definitively
Candidiasis of the oesophagus, trachea, bronchi, or lungs
Cryptococcosis, extrapulmonary
Cryptosporidiosis with diarrhoea persisting > 1 month
Cytomegalovirus diseases of an organ other than liver spleen, or lymph nodes in a patient >1 month of age
Herpes simplex virus infection causing a mucocutaneous ulcer persisting > 1 month; or bronchitis, pneumonitis, or
oesophagitis for any duration in a patient > 1 month of age
Kaposi’ s sarcoma in a patient < 60 years of age
Lymphoma of the brain(primary) affecting a patient < 60 years of age
Mycobacterium avuim complex or M .kansasii disease, disseminated (at a site other than or in addition to
lungs, skin, or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia
Progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy
Toxoplasmosis of the brain in a patient > 1 month of age

With laboratory evidence of HIV infection
Indicator diseases diagnosed definitively
Coccidiomycosis, disseminated (at a site other than or in addition to lungs or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
HIV encephalopathy
Histoplasmosis, disseminated(at a sit other than or in addition to lungs or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
Isosporiasis with diarrhoea persisting > 1 month
Kaposi’ s sarcoma at any age
Lymphoma of the brain (primary ) at any age
Non-Hodgkin’ s lymphoma
Any mycobacterial disease caused by mycobacteria other than M. tuberculosis, disseminated
Disease caused by M. tuberculosis, extrapulmonary
Salmonella (non-typhoid ) septicaemia, recurrent
HIV wasting syndrome
Indicator diseases diagnosed presumptively
Candidiasis of the oesophagus
Cytomegalovirus retinitis with loss of vision
Kaposi’ s sarcoma
Mycobacterial disease, disseminated
Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia
Toxoplasmosis of the brain in a patient> 1 month of age

2. CONDITIONS* ADDED TO THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION 1993 SURVEILLANCE DEFINITION FOR AIDS (WITH LABORATORY EVIDENCE OF HIV INFECTION in addition to those in the 1987 surveillance definition:

Source: WHO Recommended Surveillance Standards.
(Geneva: World Health Organization, WHO/EMC/DIS/97.1, 1997).
See http://www.who.int/emc

Centers for Disease Control, United States

The dominant definition currently is that developed by the Centers for Disease Control in the United States. It offers the following summary definition (at http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/hiv_aids/pubs/faq/faq2.htm):

AIDS stands for acquired immunodeficiency syndrome. An HIV-infected person receives a diagnosis of AIDS after developing one of the CDC-defined AIDS indicator illnesses. An HIV-positive person who has not had any serious illnesses also can receive an AIDS diagnosis on the basis of certain blood tests (CD4+ counts).

A positive HIV test result does not mean that a person has AIDS. A diagnosis of AIDS is made by a physician using certain clinical criteria (e.g., AIDS indicator illnesses).

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So, JSF ... you claimed a 92% correlation bewteen marijuana/cocaine and ... something.

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The "AIDS" cases. The cases diagnosed as AIDS.

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Dirty banknotes may be spreading the coronavirus, World Health Organization suggests

**People have been warned to wash their hands after using banknotes - and if possible to use contactless payments instead**

Banknotes may be spreading the new coronavirus so people should try to use contactless payments instead, the World Health Organization has said.

Customers should wash their hands after touching banknotes because infectious Covid-19 may cling to the surface for a number of days, the UN agency said on Monday night. To prevent the spread of the disease, people should use contactless technology where possible, a spokesperson added.

The Bank of England has acknowledged that banknotes "can carry bacteria or viruses" and urged people to wash their hands regularly. It comes after both China and Korea last month began disinfecting and isolating used banknotes as part of their efforts to stop the spread of the virus. Officials used ultraviolet light or high temperatures to sterilise the bills, only putting them back into circulation after they had been sealed and stored for up to 14 days.

A source at the Bank of England insisted there were no plans to do the same in the UK. However the World Health Organization said the British public should exercise care when handling potentially infectious banknotes. Asked whether banknotes could be spreading coronavirus, a WHO spokesman replied: "Yes it’s possible and it’s a good question. We know that money changes hands frequently and can pick up all sorts of bacteria and viruses and things like that.

"We would advise people to wash their hands after handling banknotes, and avoid touching their face. "When possible it’s a good idea to use contactless payments."

Exactly how long the new coronavirus can survive outside the human body has not yet been proven. An analysis of 22 earlier studies of similar coronaviruses, including Severe acute respiratory syndrome (Sars) and Middle East respiratory syndrome (Mers) published online this month in the Journal of Hospital Infection, concluded that human coronaviruses can remain infectious on inanimate surfaces for up to nine days at room temperature.

However, they can quickly be rendered inactive by the use of common disinfectants, and may also dissipate at higher temperatures, the authors wrote. It is not yet clear, however, whether the new coronavirus behaves in a similar way.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
In the realm of "never let a good crisis go to waste"

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Dirty banknotes may be spreading the coronavirus, World Health Organization suggests

**People have been warned to wash their hands after using banknotes - and if possible to use contactless payments instead**

Banknotes may be spreading the new coronavirus so people should try to use contactless payments instead, the World Health Organization has said.

Customers should wash their hands after touching banknotes because infectious Covid-19 may cling to the surface for a number of days, the UN agency said on Monday night. To prevent the spread of the disease, people should use contactless technology where possible, a spokesperson added.

The Bank of England has acknowledged that banknotes "can carry bacteria or viruses" and urged people to wash their hands regularly. It comes after both China and Korea last month began disinfecting and isolating used banknotes as part of their efforts to stop the spread of the virus. Officials used ultraviolet light or high temperatures to sterilise the bills, only putting them back into circulation after they had been sealed and stored for up to 14 days.

A source at the Bank of England insisted there were no plans to do the same in the UK. However the World Health Organization said the British public should exercise care when handling potentially infectious banknotes. Asked whether banknotes could be spreading coronavirus, a WHO spokesman replied: "Yes it’s possible and it’s a good question. We know that money changes hands frequently and can pick up all sorts of bacteria and viruses and things like that.

"We would advise people to wash their hands after handling banknotes, and avoid touching their face. "When possible it’s a good idea to use contactless payments."

Exactly how long the new coronavirus can survive outside the human body has not yet been proven. An analysis of 22 earlier studies of similar coronaviruses, including Severe acute respiratory syndrome (Sars) and Middle East respiratory syndrome (Mers) published online this month in the Journal of Hospital Infection, concluded that human coronaviruses can remain infectious on inanimate surfaces for up to nine days at room temperature.

However, they can quickly be rendered inactive by the use of common disinfectants, and may also dissipate at higher temperatures, the authors wrote. It is not yet clear, however, whether the new coronavirus behaves in a similar way.

---

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/02/exclusive-dirty-banknotes-
may-spreading-coronavirus-world-health/

Well! The WHO tells us not to use banknotes, but STILL refuses to call this a "pandemic"? Considering that some disease-fighting funds can't be released UNTIL the WHO declares a pandemic, which do you suppose might be more effective in fighting the spread of coronavirus ... having the WHO tell us to "launder money", or actually declaring a pandemic?

I see the hand of banks behind both: They have been trying to discourage cash for at least five years (because they have complete tracking and control over digital transfers, unlike cash money which evades government taxes, law enforcement, AND the banks!) AND there are those pandemic bonds! Shame on Tedros.

EVERY CRISIS has a silver lining ... for someone! Especially if they can spin the crisis in their favor.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/04/health/us-coronavirus-update-wednes
day/index.html
Any American with a doctor's order can now be tested

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The number of US cases has continued to rise since health officials allowed more labs to conduct tests for the virus.

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Los Angeles County officials on Wednesday declared a state of emergency as they confirmed six new cases of novel coronavirus in the county.
The county Board of Supervisors and Department of Public Health made the announcement alongside L.A. Mayor Eric Garcetti and public health officials from Long Beach and Pasadena, which both have their own public health department.

County Supervisors and the Los Angeles City Council are both expected to hear reports during their Wednesday meetings about the status of the illness locally.

The county's second case

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of COVID-19 was confirmed on Tuesday by Kaiser Permanente who is overseeing the care of the patient, currently in self-isolation and being treated as an outpatient, a spokesperson said. Additional details regarding the case were not available.

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We need to beef up our hand/item sanitizing protocol at home because things are crossing the "clean/dirty" line that need to addressed.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I think I have the answer for our cloth bag-handles: 70 pct IPA spray. (They say that water helps the alcohol penetrate the virus surface; which makes sense bc the proteins have to "unpack" a little before they're active, and they "unpack" with water.) I know that some say that porous surfaces are not a concern, but Chris Martensen's video has a chart of various surfaces showing long-lasting recoverability from paper. Roughly 5 days cooling-off for anything should reduce the contamination.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I've heard new numbers for the virus fatality rate are extremely low.

0% fatality rate for those under 10.
.2% fatality rate for those under 40.
.4% fatality rate for those under 50.

It gets a little higher from there, but not even on the level of the common flu.

Has anybody else heard this? I didn't read it. Heard it from a family member.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by Brenda:
JACK, I just want to backtrack for a minute.

After a the last couple of pages in this thread by your logic of NOT believing that AIDS/HIV is real or the Novel Corona Virus.

Then I guess every epidemic that has happened to humanity through history have been hoaxes too.

Like the Black Death that swept through Europe in the 14th Century and later. It killed almost half the population of Europe. I guess that was the churches making it all up. And the plague pits that are still accidentally found around London and sometimes Paris aren't real and the bones they find aren't real either.

Coming farther forward then small pox outbreaks in Europe weren't real either before Europeans bringing it to North America.

The pox infected blankets that were given to Native American villages that wiped the people out because we didn't have an immunity to it. Or those who were so sick and in pain, they went back to white towns and rubbed their bodies on the buildings thinking they could give the disease back to the White Man.

Moving along I suppose Typhoid Mary wasn't a real person. She was a carrier but didn't show any signs of the disease until near the end of her life. But she left death in her wake everywhere she worked.

Further still the Spanish Flu of 1918 after WWI.

Further still more small pox outbreaks in the US, measles and another big one polio that crippled hundreds of children. FDR was a victim of that one.

I guess dirty water doesn't carry disease in it.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I can't believe this. SOMEbody must be punking us.


38% Of People In Survey Are Avoiding Corona Beer Due To Coronavirus
https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/americans-avoiding-corona-beer-a
mid-coronavirus-outbreak-survey/

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Where is your EVIDENCE? Bring your cites and links here, so we can discuss them, because everything I have read says otherwise.

In order to meet the criteria that the HIV virus causes disease, it meets the following criteria:

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Meaning the following 4 pillars are equally loaded, and the failure of any one pillar collapses the premise/hypothesis/belief.

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1. The presence of the virus is correlated with the disease.

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Here you are tiptoeing carefully round the facts. I don't have my books or references handy right now, so I must recall what I can. Of the correlations of "the disease" (meaning the symptom package), the presence of the HIV Antibody ranks 3rd, with around 80% correlation among those not subjected to "AIDS Medications" (aka Drugs). The 2 correlations which are greater are one at about mid-80's and the other about 92%. I forget the order of the 2, but the correlations are for Marijuana Abuse, and for Cocaine Use/Abuse. Not the greatest or most convincing argument for any virus causing any "desease" - although in reasearch, correlation is a useful clue.
Correlation does not equal causation.

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2. While not everyone who has the virus has the symptoms, everone who has the symptoms has the virus.

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This is not true. If it were true, then far more folk would have less reason to dispute the premise. Not all who have the symptoms have the HIV Antibody (which is the "test for HIV"). Since the 1920s or 1930s, many thousands of those who have had the symptoms did not have the HIV Antibody (known) although they did still have the known causes of these symptoms - just like these "AIDS" cases continue to have the same known causes, known and listed in DSM-IV since the 1950's.

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3. Those who previously did not have the virus (demonstrated) later acquire both symptoms and virus after exposure.

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This is not true. For groups who were "exposed" and tested positive for the HIV Antibody, and then LEFT UNTREATED for decades, symptoms and "disease" never presented and they had normally healthy lives.

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4. Focusing treatment on the virus (with anti-retrovirals and other anti-virals) reduces both symptoms and assayed viral load.

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So, of the 4 required pillars (as you stated), 3 are failures, so your premise collapses. As does your denomination/sect of your AIDS Religion.

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It seems to me that the person with th religion is you, so bring your arguments forth and we can discuss them.

*****

Now, I'm well aware that there are many "diseases" that aren't caused by germs: Heart disease. Nutritional deficiencies like pellagra disease. Rhuematoid arthritis and other autoimmune "dieases". Genetic and mitochondrial diseases.

Still, you can't dismiss the "germ theory of disease" in relationship to AIDS. Well, maybe YOU can, but you shouldn't.

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To help move this discussion along a bit, can you name the person who developed the hypothesis that "AIDS" was caused by HIV? If you wish to include the year, that is fine as well.

If you are looking for information to enlighten yourself, I noticed virusmyth.com - which I had not seen before, but I recognize many of the authors.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
JSF -

Your list of diseases doesn't exist in people with normal immune systems.

Here's the background: there are sometimes people born with one or more parts of their immune system that's not functional. This has been going on as part of our genetic code and noted for as along as written records exist. What that means is that people with deficient immune systems, who get weird infections and cancers no one else gets, have been known to medicine and studied LONG before HIV/ AIDS came around.

It was the fact that these already-recognized diseases of immune system non-function clustered in a new set of patients that started doctor looking at the immune system to see what was going wrong. And they found out that these people started out with normal immune systems, but then something went wrong later on, and they got the same diseases people born with bad immune systems got. That's what AIDS means - acquired immune deficiency syndrome.

So, the fact is that those very weird, rare diseases of immune deficiency correlate with the presence of HIV - human immunodeficiency virus.

Your other 'causes' - marijuana/cocaine - fail Koch's postulates. Once you isolate what you think is the cause, and introduce it into a healthy individual, it has to reliably cause the disease. Marijuana/cocaine don't cause AIDS. If they did the entire country would be blasted by AIDS just on marijuana use alone! Seriously, just ask Jack if he has AIDS from smoking weed. Marijuana/cocaine fail, completely, as causes of AIDS.

OTOH you can track the well being and health of someone who's HIV positive by looking for 1) the viral load in patient's blood - the higher the load, the more chance they'll progress to AIDS, and 2) the number of T-cells (T - or thymus-derived - lymphocytes, which are cells in the immune system that among other things make antibodies), the lower the number of T-cells, the more likely the person is to progress to AIDS.

The mechanism of how HIV destroys T-lymphocytes has even been worked out.

I hope you can take the time to ponder these facts.



But in sum:
Marijuana/cocaine fail Koch's postulates as causes of AIDS.
Otherwise the very large majority of people in the US who have smoked or do smoke marijuana would have AIDS.

OTOH, you'll not find a single case of AIDS (in genetically normal people) without also finding HIV.

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To help move this discussion along a bit, can you name the person who developed the hypothesis that "AIDS" was caused by HIV? If you wish to include the year, that is fine as well.

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You will not find HIV in any living person, right? HIV in humans is only found in dead people, who could not produce the Antibody. In order to prove that the person has "immuno-deficiency" the only test is used to prove the immune system is working and functional - by testing for the presence of the HIV Antibody, the product of the working immune system.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Short answer: All of the 30+ diseases with their known symptoms and known causes which have, post-1980, been redefined as "AIDS" - even though all of the same exact causes are present, and all of the same exact symptoms are present.

The so-called "AIDS" cases were defined and classed by the "AIDS" advocates to support their AIDS epidemic hysteria, so whatever they used as definition was what was used for the correlation. Since the AIDS hoax was not scientific, it is not like we can retroactively make scientific the illogical diagnosis, they were merely accepted for the criteria of determining correlation.

Somebdy mentioned 2 examples earlier - Kaposi's Sarcoma, and pneumocystis carinii.

I cannot pretend surprise if diarrhea or weight loss were used by AIDS advocates to define their "AIDS" cases, so if that is what the AIDS movement chose to define the cases, then nobody has been able to talk sense into them, then or now.


eta:


WHO’S RECOMMENDED CASE DEFINITION FOR AIDS

Different case definitions are used in different countries, depending on population factors (children, adults, relative occurrence of opportunistic infection) and on the laboratory infrastructure and training available. Current most used case definitions include for countries with... more sophisticated laboratory facilities
CDC 1987 (1)
CDC/CD4 (2)
European (3)

limited laboratory facilities
Abidjan/WHO (4)
Bangui/WHO (clinical) (5)
Caracas/PAHO (6) revised Caracas/PAHO (7)

1. 1987 CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION SURVEILLANCE DEFINITION FOR AIDS

Without laboratory evidence of HIV infection (in the absence of other causes of immune suppression)

Indicator disease diagnosed definitively
Candidiasis of the oesophagus, trachea, bronchi, or lungs
Cryptococcosis, extrapulmonary
Cryptosporidiosis with diarrhoea persisting > 1 month
Cytomegalovirus diseases of an organ other than liver spleen, or lymph nodes in a patient >1 month of age
Herpes simplex virus infection causing a mucocutaneous ulcer persisting > 1 month; or bronchitis, pneumonitis, or
oesophagitis for any duration in a patient > 1 month of age
Kaposi’ s sarcoma in a patient < 60 years of age
Lymphoma of the brain(primary) affecting a patient < 60 years of age
Mycobacterium avuim complex or M .kansasii disease, disseminated (at a site other than or in addition to
lungs, skin, or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia
Progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy
Toxoplasmosis of the brain in a patient > 1 month of age

With laboratory evidence of HIV infection
Indicator diseases diagnosed definitively
Coccidiomycosis, disseminated (at a site other than or in addition to lungs or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
HIV encephalopathy
Histoplasmosis, disseminated(at a sit other than or in addition to lungs or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
Isosporiasis with diarrhoea persisting > 1 month
Kaposi’ s sarcoma at any age
Lymphoma of the brain (primary ) at any age
Non-Hodgkin’ s lymphoma
Any mycobacterial disease caused by mycobacteria other than M. tuberculosis, disseminated
Disease caused by M. tuberculosis, extrapulmonary
Salmonella (non-typhoid ) septicaemia, recurrent
HIV wasting syndrome
Indicator diseases diagnosed presumptively
Candidiasis of the oesophagus
Cytomegalovirus retinitis with loss of vision
Kaposi’ s sarcoma
Mycobacterial disease, disseminated
Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia
Toxoplasmosis of the brain in a patient> 1 month of age

2. CONDITIONS* ADDED TO THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION 1993 SURVEILLANCE DEFINITION FOR AIDS (WITH LABORATORY EVIDENCE OF HIV INFECTION in addition to those in the 1987 surveillance definition:

Source: WHO Recommended Surveillance Standards.
(Geneva: World Health Organization, WHO/EMC/DIS/97.1, 1997).
See http://www.who.int/emc

Centers for Disease Control, United States

The dominant definition currently is that developed by the Centers for Disease Control in the United States. It offers the following summary definition (at http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/hiv_aids/pubs/faq/faq2.htm):

AIDS stands for acquired immunodeficiency syndrome. An HIV-infected person receives a diagnosis of AIDS after developing one of the CDC-defined AIDS indicator illnesses. An HIV-positive person who has not had any serious illnesses also can receive an AIDS diagnosis on the basis of certain blood tests (CD4+ counts).

A positive HIV test result does not mean that a person has AIDS. A diagnosis of AIDS is made by a physician using certain clinical criteria (e.g., AIDS indicator illnesses).

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So, JSF ... you claimed a 92% correlation bewteen marijuana/cocaine and ... something.

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The "AIDS" cases. The cases diagnosed as AIDS.

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Baloney.

If that were the case, then anyone who smoked weed or got high on cocaine would be getting any number of rare infections. Especially since, in your view, there is a "92%" correlation. Since that's not the case, that idea falls flat on its face.

Next?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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You will not find HIV in any living person, right? HIV in humans is only found in dead people, who could not produce the Antibody. In order to prove that the person has "immuno-deficiency" the only test is used to prove the immune system is working and functional - by testing for the presence of the HIV Antibody, the product of the working immune system.

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WTF?? OF COURSE you find HIV in living people! That's what "viral load" means.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I think he doesn't understand that they can test for the actual HIV in people.

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https://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/hiv-aids-screening#1
(Antibody/) antigen combination tests

The CDC recommends these blood tests. They can detect HIV earlier than antibody screening tests. They check for HIV antigen, a protein called p24 that's part of the virus and shows up 2 to 4 weeks after infection. (They also check for HIV antibodies.)

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I've been waiting for this shoe to drop ...

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Los Angeles County officials on Wednesday declared a state of emergency as they confirmed six new cases of novel coronavirus in the county.
The county Board of Supervisors and Department of Public Health made the announcement alongside L.A. Mayor Eric Garcetti and public health officials from Long Beach and Pasadena, which both have their own public health department.

County Supervisors and the Los Angeles City Council are both expected to hear reports during their Wednesday meetings about the status of the illness locally.

The county's second case

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But what about cases three thru six?

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of COVID-19 was confirmed on Tuesday by Kaiser Permanente who is overseeing the care of the patient, currently in self-isolation and being treated as an outpatient, a spokesperson said. Additional details regarding the case were not available.

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LA County might be at the case/case/case/cluster/cluster/BOOM! part of the exponential part of the curve.

LA County is very large. Does it mean anything that the Mayor of LA was flanked by Public Health officials of Pasadena and Long Beach? (We worked with LB Public Health lab on a toxic risk, I was VERY impressed with the dedication of the doctor who testified and helped us close down a facility.)

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Well, as of the turn of the century, no living person had been found with HIV present in their bodies.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
The test for actual HIV 'antigen' (ie - the HIV proteins) in the blood.

Quote:

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https://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/hiv-aids-screening#1
(Antibody/) antigen combination tests

The CDC recommends these blood tests. They can detect HIV earlier than antibody screening tests. They check for HIV antigen, a protein called p24 that's part of the virus and shows up 2 to 4 weeks after infection. (They also check for HIV antibodies.)

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
The antigen IS PRODUCED after HIV infection, part of the Immune System response, proving that the Immune System is working and functioning.
This is before the Immune System produces the Antibody, further proving the Immune System is responding, working, functioning properly.
But thanks for trying.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
The antigen IS PRODUCED after HIV infection, part of the Immune System response, proving that the Immune System is working and functioning.
This is before the Immune System produces the Antibody, further proving the Immune System is responding, working, functioning properly.
But thanks for trying.

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JSF - p24 IS A VIRAL PROTEIN NOT A HUMAN PROTEIN PRODUCED BY THE IMMUNE SYSTEM.

Do you know NOTHING about biology - at all?

Viruses hijack cells to produce more viruses like themselves. They do this by using the cells' machinery to produce viral proteins, and viral genetic code (RNA or DNA - which are nucleic acids, not proteins).


If a human is producing viral proteins, it's because they're infected with the virus.

Or, to be absolutely direct about it - a human that's producing HIV p24 protein is infected with HIV.

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It still looks like once the Antibody is produced, the Virus is displaced. Is this correct? or are you saying they co-exist side by side?

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
James Bond delayed until November.

https://nationalpost.com/entertainment/movies/james-bond-sequel-delaye
d-till-november-amid-virus-outbreak

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It still looks like once the Antibody is produced, the Virus is displaced. Is this correct? or are you saying they co-exist side by side?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Jumping in for KIKI ... antibodies are produced but they're insufficient to clear the virus, so both exist. That's not unheard-of: Once the immune system is activated the chickenpox symptoms disappear, but the virus isn't completely killed- it goes to hide in nerve cells and can re-emerge decades later as shingles. You still have circulating antibodies, tho.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
More US cases, in more US states, with more US deaths, and now the US has it's own (Grand) 'Princess' cruise ship experiment, to see if it can do better than Japan.

The ship afaik sailed round trip between SanFran and Mexico, with 2 passengers who developed symptoms during the cruise debarking in SanFran, with one layer dying. The ship was to sail from SanFran with a call in Ensanada before sailing on to Hawaii, with 62 people still on board from the earlier Mexico trip for the Hawaii trip. It was called back from its route and has dropped anchor off of SanFran while officials determine what to do. But because it's 'travel' related - thought not to or from any high-risk areas - it's not considered community spread. I would consider that fudging the numbers. https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/03/04/1st-california-coronaviru
s-death-san-francisco-mexico-princess-cruise-ship-placer-county/

The one thing there is less of is test kits being delivered as compared to how many were promised.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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It still looks like once the Antibody is produced, the Virus is displaced. Is this correct? or are you saying they co-exist side by side?

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Jumping in for KIKI ... antibodies are produced but they're insufficient to clear the virus, so both exist. That's not unheard-of: Once the immune system is activated the chickenpox symptoms disappear, but the virus isn't completely killed- it goes to hide in nerve cells and can re-emerge decades later as shingles. You still have circulating antibodies, tho.

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So, it (Grand Princess) got called back as a caution, or something was up before it headed to HI?

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So, in all of these cases, do the bodies produce the Antibody? Or do HIV Present cases now have HIV Negative results for Antibody?

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To help move this discussion along a bit, can you name the person who developed the hypothesis that "AIDS" was caused by HIV? If you wish to include the year, that is fine as well.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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It still looks like once the Antibody is produced, the Virus is displaced. Is this correct? or are you saying they co-exist side by side?

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Jumping in for KIKI ... antibodies are produced but they're insufficient to clear the virus, so both exist. That's not unheard-of: Once the immune system is activated the chickenpox symptoms disappear, but the virus isn't completely killed- it goes to hide in nerve cells and can re-emerge decades later as shingles. You still have circulating antibodies, tho.

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Thanks for the update.
So, in all of these cases, do the bodies produce the Antibody? Or do HIV Present cases now have HIV Negative results for Antibody?


To help move this discussion along a bit, can you name the person who developed the hypothesis that "AIDS" was caused by HIV? If you wish to include the year, that is fine as well.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:

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https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/03/asia/novel-coronavirus-covid-19-int
l-hnk/index.html

The head of the World Health Organization (WHO) said that public health officials are operating in "uncharted territory" as they combat the spread of the novel coronavirus, which has infected more than 90,000 people across 73 countries and territories as of Monday evening.

The WHO has so far held off on classifying the incident as a global pandemic, but has warned it is a possibility in the near future.

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The pandemic bonds mature July 2020.

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"Let's be clear: The risk to the American people of the coronavirus remains low, according to all of the experts that we are working with across the government," Pence said.

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Because there's "only" 100 cases in the US ... that they know of.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:


DP cases have 6 deaths (down from 7!! Maybe 1 undied). 212 recovered, 35 serious/critical.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Just anecdotal "evidence" as far as I'm concerned.


AIDS isn't likely to be real.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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You must be trolling us.


I mean, I knew in the beginning of the epidemic there were people who insisted ... INSISTED, I TELL YOU... that a retrovirus wasn't the cause of AIDS, that it was a "lifestyle" disease caused by drug use and the "homosexual lifestyle".

That non-homosexuals and non-drug users (like, children who caught it from their mothers during birth) also got AIDS? Piffle!

That clean living and vitamins didn't provide a cure? Just a hoax!

That the virus was isolated from patients and its sequence determined, and it was seen under electron microscope? An incidental finding!

That antivirals reversed the symptoms and allowed patients to live longer, healthier lives? A hoax by Big Pharma!

That the disease could be prevented by using condoms during sex, despite all the rest of the "homosexual lifestyle"? Sheer placebo effect!

It was as crazy-making as listening to a flat-earther deny direct, experiential evidence that the earth is round.

I thought that the idea of the "non-viral" origin of AIDS had disappeared under the onslaught of evidence, but apparently there still are adherents to the idea, just as there are still flat-earthers around.

Well, it takes all kinds, I guess! The world would be a lot less interesting if everyone just accepted evidence! Carry on!

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