REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The Fed: choosing "the controlled disintegration of the world economy"

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, November 30, 2015 18:29
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3940
PAGE 1 of 1

Saturday, November 15, 2014 11:43 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Here is a link to a historical perspective on the current political economic crisis, and its historic roots, a talk given by economist and Professor at the Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin, Yanis Varoufakis at Columbia University.

I thought I was pretty "up" on the history of American economic policy, but I learned a lot listening to this. It's long, but well worth your while if you're interested in knowing "why" things are the way they are.

One aspect that I hadn't realized is that the EU is actually of American design, set in motion by the post-WWII economic roles that the USA had designated for Germany and France.

Another interesting point is that Margaret Thatcher was brought down by her own Tory Party with her insistence that the UK NOT adopt the Euro currency. In fact, she was completely resistant to the UK joining the EU at all... both points where she was entirely correct.

A third point, alluded to in the title, was a comment made by then Fed Chair Paul Volcker, who commented that the Fed faced a choice between a stable world economy, and "the controlled disintegration of the world economy" which favored the USA, and chose the latter. That decision has been the basis of the Fed's decisions ever since.

The discussion traces our current situation back to just after WWII, when the USA was the unrivaled (in fact, the sole surviving western/ Asian manufacturer) through the various grand designs and policy decisions since then.

For those of you who listen, I hope you enjoy this as much as I did. It was enlightening.

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2011/11/20/the-global-minotaur-the-crash-of-
2008-and-the-euro-zone-crisis-in-historical-perspective
/

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 15, 2014 11:46 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



* link added. Very well.


And it seems Margaret Thatcher was treated by her party in much the same way Reagan was by the GOP.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 15, 2014 11:47 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


OOPS! Sorry! I did a post-edit.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 15, 2014 2:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


More apologies are due! In a hurry, I grabbed the wrong link. THIS is the link that you should be using. It begins with a recording of a fiery and defiant Margaret Thatcher, having just been deposed as PM by her own Tory Party, before the House of Commons once again expressing her vehement (and correct!) view of the Euro and the EU.... (audio only)

Europe Unhinged
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2014/11/10/why-is-europe-not-coming-together
-in-the-aftermath-of-the-euro-crisis-audio
/


The previous link was The Global Minataur, in which Yanis Varoufakis explains much of the same history, but without the details about Thatcher.


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 2, 2014 1:30 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Woct your 1st link.

I supoz that amongst all that info iz the root cauze uv the flatlining uv income in the early 70z. They mention Nixon announsing sumthing in 71 wich equated to the 'end uv Bretenwoodz'.

It made me start thinking about how anything gets dun anymore. The only motiv the working man haz iz to not starv. Otherwize he shoud be wondering why hiz entire career iz apparently worth less than a week uv a Wall Street bankerz time and decide he wont trade hiz time for money anymore.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 2, 2014 10:58 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Wall Street has gotten so used to ridiculous artificially-supported low interest rates, I shudder to think what's gonna happen when the Fed announces the first of its inevitable prime rate increases. That's a day you don't want to own any stocks or mutual funds.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 3, 2014 4:31 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Why do you think its inevitable?

The rates will stay low az long az the peepl with their pawz on the controlz believ that its making the most money for them.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 3, 2014 7:43 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Wall Street has gotten so used to ridiculous artificially-supported low interest rates, I shudder to think what's gonna happen when the Fed announces the first of its inevitable prime rate increases. That's a day you don't want to own any stocks or mutual funds.


The interest on the Federal Debt will become astronomical.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 3, 2014 9:41 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Most people would say that the current interest payment on the debt is already "astronomical". Hundreds of billions of dollars a year for nothing, a national disgrace.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/10/09/5-facts-about-the-nati
onal-debt-what-you-should-know
/

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, December 4, 2014 6:44 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Most people would say that the current interest payment on the debt is already "astronomical". Hundreds of billions of dollars a year for nothing, a national disgrace.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/10/09/5-facts-about-the-nati
onal-debt-what-you-should-know/


I personally would agree that the current interest is astronomical, but I must disagree with your claim that "most" would as well - otherwise "most" would have voted against the Debtor-in-Chief the last 2 times, or at least the Legislators mounting this debt in the last 5 times the polls were open, and they could have expelled them. This indicates that "most" do not understand this. An increase of the interest rate will be catastrophic to the Federal Budget.

According to your linky, from October 2013, at that time the interest rate was 2.43% and the percentage of total Federal Outlays was 6.23% spent on the interest payment. Thus if the interest rate went to 10%, the Federal Budget would need to spend over 25% merely on interest. Almost 20% of the Federal spending would evaporate.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, December 4, 2014 11:03 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Any higher future interest rates would only be applicable to new debt. The existing debt will still be subject to the same rates that the loans were secured at.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 5, 2014 7:10 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


You 2 hav a kindergarten level uv understanding on the subject. And JSF, you hav forgotten that it wuz Bush Jr. who turned a bujet surplus into a defisit and piled over a trillion$ on top uv that to get rid uv Saddam.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 5, 2014 4:01 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Any higher future interest rates would only be applicable to new debt. The existing debt will still be subject to the same rates that the loans were secured at.


With maturity terms at around 5 years, that means that every year one fifth of the debt would be subject to the new rate. I wasn't trying to mollify the uneducated, I was trying to point out the ludicrous nature of the situation. Five years in the taxaholic DC is not but a thing.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 6, 2014 1:38 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

I wasn't trying to mollify the uneducated


Thank you Mr. Gruber.

How M.I.T.ee white of you.

See you next week in front of the House Committee.

Don't worry though, the MSM will ignore the whole thing as always. Only Fox News will cover it, and their viewers drink American beer. They never heard of an Amstel Light. Can you imagine that?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 6, 2014 3:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


But the total public debt (money that the Federal government owes to the public, as opposed to intergovernmental loans), while at about 80% of GDP (GPD is about 17$T, so that's about 13$T), is really only a small part of a scary debt picture. Total debt is $60T, which means that the vast majority of debt is NOT held by the Federal government.

There are all kinds of possible debt booby-traps. The Fed - a private bank consortium despite its very government-sounding name - has bought most of the "toxic assets" (non-performing loans) that the private banks created. That "balance sheet" is about $4T.

Businesses and banks themselves have taken out loans hand over fist (And why not? when interest rates are near 0%) not to invest in future production, but to participate in the latest stock market bubble.

But the real problem might be futures. I've heard that the money in futures represents something like 10Xthe world GDP. The other thing that I've read that as far as banks are concerned, in terms of debt seniority, futures come first. So if a bank goes bust and they have to start parsing out money, the first thing they pay is towards futures contracts. YOUR DEPOSIT, which is covered by a PRIVATE insurance called the FDIC, is not your money. It's considered to be an unsecured loan to the bank. So if the insurance runs out, your deposit may be subject to a "bail in", where you get a haircut to make good on the bank's more senior debts. And even if your deposit is protected because it falls under the $250,000 limit, there are many other deposits .... pension funds, credit unions, investment firms ... which may be holding their $$ in a large bank, which are subject to the bail in provision.

I can find the agreement between the FDIC and the Bank of England, BTW, which enshrines the bail-in provision.

Anyway, what it all comes down to is a massive overprinting of money by the Fed and the banks. The Federal deficit doesn't help matters, but it's not the main problem.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 6, 2014 5:41 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

I wasn't trying to mollify the uneducated


Thank you Mr. Gruber.

How M.I.T.ee white of you.

See you next week in front of the House Committee.

Don't worry though, the MSM will ignore the whole thing as always. Only Fox News will cover it, and their viewers drink American beer. They never heard of an Amstel Light. Can you imagine that?


Be wary and careful. They might find out the ban on absinthe was lifted.

And no, I would be the Un-Gruber. He was working to mollify the uneducated, I was the opposite.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 6, 2014 5:46 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
YOUR DEPOSIT, which is covered by a PRIVATE insurance called the FDIC, is not your money. It's considered to be an unsecured loan to the bank. So if the insurance runs out, your deposit may be subject to a "bail in", where you get a haircut to make good on the bank's more senior debts. And even if your deposit is protected because it falls under the $250,000 limit, there are many other deposits .... pension funds, credit unions, investment firms ... which may be holding their $$ in a large bank, which are subject to the bail in provision.

I can find the agreement between the FDIC and the Bank of England, BTW, which enshrines the bail-in provision.


Whoa Nelly. You cannot be letting the unwashed masses know this - they might learn to not put their money in the bank. Or they might learn to put their money only in banks which are fiscally responsible, or financially sound - more commonly known as "bought out" by the larger, irresponsible banks of which you speak.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 6, 2014 5:54 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, if you think that the "bail in" plan is a conspiracy theory, here is the agreement between the BoE and the FDIC on "Resolving Globally Active, Systemically Important Finanacial Institutions"

https://www.fdic.gov/about/srac/2012/gsifi.pdf

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 9, 2014 7:38 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, if you think that the "bail in" plan is a conspiracy theory, here is the agreement between the BoE and the FDIC on "Resolving Globally Active, Systemically Important Finanacial Institutions"

https://www.fdic.gov/about/srac/2012/gsifi.pdf


Are you trying to tempt them? Has Obama sent in the black helicopters to mute you yet? Where is the nearest re-education camp to you?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 13, 2014 12:28 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


All I can say is...

OMFG.
:surprised:

This is in line with my previous post which says that in terms of debt seniority, the holders of futures contracts get paid FIRST. Also, the bail-in provision which allows banks to give all of its depositors a haircut.

Do you know that YOUR BANK engages in financial shenanigans like buying risky corporate bonds, lending money for stock speculation and futures trading, lending themselves money to buy stocks, selling naked shorts on the commodities market, lending into the carry trade ? (You just can't make this up, they've done stuff you'd need a PhD in math to understand.)

Well, the banks were supposed to separate out their FDIC-insured money from their play-money, and put these risky operations into nonbank entities.

The current Congress just blew away that firewall in the current spending bill. Not only can the banks continue to use FDIC-insured deposits for swaps and hedges, the spending bill now makes the Federal government ... that's you and me taxpayer... responsible for shelling out up to $1T to make up the banks' bad guesses.

Just to give you an idea of how much money is in the insurance fund, and how much/ what kind of money those insurance deposits are worth ....

US Deposits In Perspective: $25 Billion In Insurance, $9,283 Billion In Deposits; $297,514 Billion In Derivatives
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-19/us-deposits-perspective-25-bi
llion-insurance-9283-billion-deposits-297514-billion-de


Anyway, here is the original article:

Presenting The $303 Trillion In Derivatives That US Taxpayers Are Now On The Hook For
Quote:

Courtesy of the Cronybus(sic) [aptly-named!] last minute passage, government was provided a quid-pro-quo $1.1 trillion spending allowance with Wall Street's blessing in exchange for assuring banks that taxpayers would be on the hook for yet another bailout, as a result of the swaps push-out provision, after incorporating explicit Citigroup language that allows financial institutions to trade certain financial derivatives from subsidiaries that are insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp, explicitly putting taxpayers on the hook for losses caused by these contracts.... Unsurprisingly, the main backer of the bill is notorious Wall Street lackey Jim Himes (D-Conn.), a former Goldman Sachs employee who has discovered lobbyist payoffs can be just as lucrative as a career in financial services.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-12/presenting-303-trillion-deriv
atives-us-taxpayers-are-now-hook


Here is the original Mother Jones article, which explains much better than Zerohedge
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/12/spending-bill-992-derivati
ves-citigroup-lobbyists


Who says the USA isn't an oligarchy?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 20, 2014 1:49 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The original bail-in agreement (the one which makes your bank account forfeit in case of bank failure) was just an agreement between the BoE and the FDIC.

However, in a decision completely ignored by the mainstream press, the bail-in agreement was extended to all G20 nations... not in Australia, but in 2010.

G20 Governments All Agreed To Cyprus-Style Theft Of Bank Deposits … In 2010
http://www.globalresearch.ca/g20-governments-all-agreed-to-cyprus-styl
e-theft-of-bank-deposits-in-2010/5335567


In 2014, in another move completely ignored by the mainstream press the G20 extended the bail-in agreement to PENSIONS as well as bank accounts.

This is an exceptionally clearly-written article about bank assets, liabilities, insurances and risks affecting your deposit:
http://ellenbrown.com/2014/12/01/new-rules-cyprus-style-bail-ins-to-hi
t-deposits-and-pensions
/

Seriously, you just can't make this shit up. Keeping money in a mattress is beginning to look less kooky!

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 30, 2015 6:29 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:



The previous link was The Global Minataur, in which Yanis Varoufakis explains much of the same history, but without the details about Thatcher.



Here is one to think of - Food - as currencies bounce up and down, as wars kick off, as forest fires, floods and drought increase
Food Security
http://www.viewsoftheworld.net/?p=2557
You pull out the world map and pick a nation. How much your GDP is, how much you export, how much food you produce and do you have enough food security to feed your own people in case of a drought, war or reduction in global trade...I also see perverted companies like Nestle empty the rivers of California and only contribute to the drought


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Elections; 2024
Tue, April 16, 2024 13:50 - 2249 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Tue, April 16, 2024 12:58 - 6238 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Tue, April 16, 2024 12:51 - 3521 posts
I agree with everything you said, but don't tell anyone I said that
Tue, April 16, 2024 12:42 - 14 posts
Punishing Russia With Sanctions
Tue, April 16, 2024 02:04 - 504 posts
Dow Nearing 30K. Time For You To Jump Off?
Mon, April 15, 2024 21:24 - 106 posts
I'm surprised there's not an inflation thread yet
Mon, April 15, 2024 18:39 - 738 posts
Is Elon Musk Nuts?
Mon, April 15, 2024 17:54 - 366 posts
The Thread of Court Cases Trump Is Winning
Mon, April 15, 2024 15:32 - 18 posts
Have you guys been paying attention to the squatter situation in NYC? It's just escelated.
Mon, April 15, 2024 15:24 - 5 posts
As Palestinians pushes for statehood, Israel finds itself more isolated
Mon, April 15, 2024 13:44 - 284 posts
"Feminism" really means more Femtacular than you at EVERYTHING.
Sun, April 14, 2024 18:05 - 64 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL