REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Ayn Rand by Cracked

POSTED BY: CANTTAKESKY
UPDATED: Sunday, June 10, 2012 04:27
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1370
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Thursday, June 7, 2012 8:26 AM

CANTTAKESKY




Bwahaha. Had to share.

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 8:58 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Cracked is very leftist (read:left side of the bell curve). I like some of the articles... but damn, they've gone off the derp end.

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... YOU are locked in here with ME."

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 9:32 AM

BYTEMITE


Cracked is a collection of internet jackasses, like Something Awful and 4Chan, only with pretensions of civility. Their political alignment is essentially "amoral."

They don't care who they're trolling or siding with, as long as they're trolling someone.

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 9:52 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Cracked is a collection of internet jackasses, like Something Awful and 4Chan, only with pretensions of civility. Their political alignment is essentially "amoral."

They don't care who they're trolling or siding with, as long as they're trolling someone.



Yeah, but you gotta adjust for Wulfie - anyone not a foaming at the mouth idealogue is a "leftist".


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 9:55 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Link in invisible font-- like those secret signitures?
When I recovered it from " Reply With Quote", didn't seem to work. or else was very slow...

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 10:31 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
Cracked is very leftist (read:left side of the bell curve).


Riiiight, because they're all about being politically correct and never making fun of women or Asians or black people or... wait, that's exactly what they do, all the time. The majority of their articles have nothing to do with politics, opting for cute animals, terrible album covers, or wild science stories with a comedic twist. Calling them "leftist" for making fun of Ayn Rand (and L. Ron Hubbard, just btw) is like calling me an Astronomer because I looked through a telescope a few times.


Newold, just go to cracked.com, the video is listed on the front page right now.


What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 10:32 AM

BYTEMITE


It was there before... :?

(polinkgeist will EAT YOU)

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 10:43 AM

HKCAVALIER


I also found a flow chart:

http://www.cracked.com/funny-304-ayn-rand/

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 12:12 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Yes, not wanting an oppressive govt taking what you've worked for amounts to being d- bag.

FAIL.


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 12:46 PM

BYTEMITE


Libertarian ideas can be traced back to Ayn Rand, but Libertarianism and Objectivism is not the same thing.

Quote:

Q: Do you think Libertarians communicate the ideas of freedom and capitalism effectively? [Q&A following LP’s “Objective Communication,” Lecture 1, 1980]

AR: I don’t think plagiarists are effective. I’ve read nothing by a Libertarian (when I read them, in the early years) that wasn’t my ideas badly mishandled—i.e., had the teeth pulled out of them—with no credit given. I didn’t know whether I should be glad that no credit was given, or disgusted. I felt both. They are perhaps the worst political group today, because they can do the most harm to capitalism, by making it disreputable.



Ayn Rand is a curious figure - she denounces altruism as a gateway to collectivism, then says that human suffering is not necessarily a part of the human condition. But unless humans simply ignore the signs of their own suffering (perhaps she's arguing for this?), I'm not sure how this can be accomplished without at least SOME things that rely on a sense of compassion and altruism, such as paternal and maternal instinct and childcare. She overlooks this on the way to her conclusions - sex is okay, but none of her protagonists seem to have children. This never is addressed; Rand implies that her heroic figures can have friends and families - and if not blood families, then families of their choosing - but that relationships should not be based on affection or respect and that those connections are only valid and sustainable if they are based upon mutual material exchange. She never explains how exactly this would work in regards to children.

She might very well be on the right track for saying that government shouldn't be relied upon for the caretaking of humans (in fact, I'd agree that it tends to do a horrific job of it - see also war). But I do think it's possible she might take the idea just a little too far, and create unfortunate implications.

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 1:09 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I am surprised she credits herself with Libertarianism and sees Libertarians as plagiarists. Libertarianism has roots predate her birth and have historically had closer ties to anarchism. I have always credited her contemporary Heinlein with more Libertarian influence. I have always sensed a distinct difference between her ideals and the ideals of Libertarianism.

Perhaps, though, I am a poor follower of the Libertarian movement.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 1:23 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


She credits herself with just about everything. That's what makes her a douchebag.

That and the fact that she lived off the government tit 'til the day she died, sucking off Social Security AND Medicaid while bleating about the evils of both.





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 1:24 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Yes, not wanting an oppressive govt taking what you've worked for amounts to being d- bag.

FAIL.





Tell it to Saddam, right?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 1:25 PM

BYTEMITE


She's referring to a more modern form of libertarianism, the libertarian party itself, who she saw as "right wing hippies," particularly the religious conservatives (Rand was an atheist). Forms of libertarianism that predated Rand were more likely to be identified with classical liberalism and the enlightenment, which influenced Rand, but she had a rather unique and extreme take on various ideas, values, and social mores.

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 2:07 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Yes, not wanting an oppressive govt taking what you've worked for amounts to being d- bag.

FAIL.





Tell it to Saddam, right?



Yours is such an idiotic, nonsensical comment, it's not worthy of a reply.


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 2:38 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


http://www.cracked.com/video_18426_ayn-rand-5Bplaceholder5D.html

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 4:44 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Yes, not wanting an oppressive govt taking what you've worked for amounts to being d- bag.

FAIL.





Tell it to Saddam, right?



Yours is such an idiotic, nonsensical comment, it's not worthy of a reply.





So you felt the need to reply, just to say it wasn't worthy of it?

I really hope Niki makes your post her new signature (hidden or not).

Not replying: You're doing it wrong.





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 5:10 PM

1KIKI

Today, scientists sound the alarm on other environmental dangers. Vested interests still hire their own scientists to confuse the issue. But in the end, nature will not be fooled. Neil deGrasse Tyson


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yours is such an idiotic, nonsensical comment, it's not worthy of a reply.


And yet, he replied.

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Friday, June 8, 2012 1:07 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I didn't reply to the comment, I just said it was idiotic. Which means, I didn't address its content, because it was too idiotic to do so.

Such children here...



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, June 8, 2012 4:14 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
http://www.cracked.com/video_18426_ayn-rand-5Bplaceholder5D.html

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



ROFL. That was pretty awesome.

-----
So many gods, so many creeds,
So many paths that wind and wind,
While just the art of being kind
is all the sad world needs.
- Ella Wheeler Wilcox, poet (1850-1919)

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Friday, June 8, 2012 4:16 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
I have always sensed a distinct difference between her ideals and the ideals of Libertarianism.



I think of her brand of libertarianism as an evil subset of the broader Libertarianism. Being free means being free to be douchebags. ;)


-----
So many gods, so many creeds,
So many paths that wind and wind,
While just the art of being kind
is all the sad world needs.
- Ella Wheeler Wilcox, poet (1850-1919)

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Friday, June 8, 2012 6:10 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
I have always sensed a distinct difference between her ideals and the ideals of Libertarianism.



I think of her brand of libertarianism as an evil subset of the broader Libertarianism. Being free means being free to be douchebags. ;)

Libertarians always talk about ideals and when it goes wrong, it is never the ideals that failed. Merely failed individuals. There can be no blame attached to the abstract creed.

I have stories about Libertarians -- well, they had Ayn Rand on their bookshelves -- I saw the books. A doctor had a profit-sharing retirement plan with his office staff and he stole the money with the Randian justification that there would be no profits were it not for him. Next: a restaurant owner did not pay his illegal alien employees' Social Security tax and his Randian justification was that these people would not have jobs without him and, besides, they were decades from retirement.

Coda: Doctor went to minimum security jail for 6 months; he repaid all the money owed my sister under threat of having parole revoked. The restauranteur declared bankruptcy to avoid paying most of the taxes; he hid from the court much of his inherited wealth with his brother. That restauranteur remarried and "invested" his wife's money. When he died of cancer, she learned he had spent all my other sister's sister-in-law's money.

Are they douche bags or victims of an oppressive government? I know the answer, but you decide for yourself. Libertarianism could never be at fault, according to Libertarians.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, June 8, 2012 6:44 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Libertarianism could never be at fault, according to Libertarians.


Hello,

None of the things you described are people behaving on Libertarian ideals.

Surely you are aware that thieves and liars exist everywhere, and they all make excuses for their actions?

--Anthony




Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Friday, June 8, 2012 6:44 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I didn't reply to the comment, I just said it was idiotic. Which means, I didn't address its content, because it was too idiotic to do so.

Such children here...




You responded with words - that is a reply, by definition.

REPLY: 1.
to make answer in words or writing; answer; respond: to reply to a question.

It's even the FIRST definition (I note this, since you have shown a tendency to pick and choose definitions)

It's cute how you stamp your feet, and deny doing what you obvilously did - and then call everyone else childish. You are a master at projection, bravo! Throw another tantrum, they're always fun to watch!

Like Kwick said, you'r doing it wrong, son. Not replying means... you know... not making a response - at all.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, June 8, 2012 8:03 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Quote:

Libertarianism could never be at fault, according to Libertarians.


Hello,

None of the things you described are people behaving on Libertarian ideals.

Surely you are aware that thieves and liars exist everywhere, and they all make excuses for their actions?

--Anthony

Why call them thieves and liars? The example "Libertarian" doctor and restauranteur saw themselves as following a higher morality that "ordinary" humans cannot understand except with great difficulty.

They saw their problems as accounting quibbles, as in when the money will be voluntarily paid into the retirement accounts or to social security. They felt they had not stolen anyone's money and if the employees had kept the government in ignorance and minded their own damn business the books would have all balanced out, eventually, and no businesses would have closed. Same with the restauranteur's wife's account: if only cancer had not killed him, he would have put all the money back by investing on the stock market.

Libertarians plan decades ahead, working on different time scale than others. They are not greedy; they are building the future! Very John Galt of them.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, June 8, 2012 8:19 AM

MINCINGBEAST


Not a fan of Cracked, but spot on, even if it doesn't go far enough. The title ought to be "It is laudable to be an adolescent douche bag" or "Being an adolescent douche bag is actually a philosophy."

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Friday, June 8, 2012 8:21 AM

BYTEMITE


Two:

Sounds like they objectivists/Randroids, based on the "these people wouldn't have jobs/there wouldn't be profits if it wasn't for me" idea. It's a type of libertarian, but it doesn't define all of them.

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Friday, June 8, 2012 8:28 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Libertarians plan decades ahead, working on different time scale than others. They are not greedy; they are building the future! Very John Galt of them.


Hello,

I know of no Libertarian ideals that allow you to break agreements and steal people's money. Property Rights and Agreements are exceptionally important to the Libertarian philosophy.

What you describe are people breaking agreements and stealing money and trying to justify their decisions after they were caught.

It's a lot like saying Stalin upheld the ideals of Communism and Socialism. He did not. Even people who despise Socialism can't pretend that Stalin was a good representative of the philosophy.

--Anthony






Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, June 8, 2012 8:36 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Two:

Sounds like they objectivists/Randroids, based on the "these people wouldn't have jobs/there wouldn't be profits if it wasn't for me" idea. It's a type of libertarian, but it doesn't define all of them.

Obviously. For example, most Roman Catholics do not let the Catechism of the Catholic Church (ISBN 0-8091-3434-9) define their morality completely. But they're still "Catholics" even if they haven't read the book and never will.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, June 8, 2012 8:40 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by two:
Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Two:

Sounds like they objectivists/Randroids, based on the "these people wouldn't have jobs/there wouldn't be profits if it wasn't for me" idea. It's a type of libertarian, but it doesn't define all of them.

Obviously. For example, most Roman Catholics do not let the Catechism of the Catholic Church (ISBN 0-8091-3434-9) define their morality completely. But they're still "Catholics" even if they haven't read the book and never will.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two



Hello,

Except your comparison breaks down in that one is an official text produced for a system, and the other is not.

Ayn Rand herself would apparently be the first to distance herself from Libertarians. Her works are not the Catechism of the Libertarian philosophy.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Friday, June 8, 2012 8:52 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

The First 'guidebook' to Libertarian philosophy I ever read was Heinlein's. It wasn't until my 30's that I even became aware of Ayn Rand and her attitude has always seemed one of vicious selfishness.

From wikipedia:

"The first official slogan of the Libertarian Party was "There Ain't No Such Thing as a Free Lunch" (often seen as "TANSTAAFL" for short), a phrase popularized by Robert A Heinlein in his 1966 novel The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, sometimes dubbed "a manifesto for a libertarian revolution"."

I think you will find that this work has nothing in it to suggest that you can steal people's money, gamble it away, break your agreements with impunity, or any of the rest of it.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, June 8, 2012 8:55 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Quote:

Libertarians plan decades ahead, working on different time scale than others. They are not greedy; they are building the future! Very John Galt of them.


Hello,

I know of no Libertarian ideals that allow you to break agreements and steal people's money. Property Rights and Agreements are exceptionally important to the Libertarian philosophy.

What you describe are people breaking agreements and stealing money and trying to justify their decisions after they were caught.

It's a lot like saying Stalin upheld the ideals of Communism and Socialism. He did not. Even people who despise Socialism can't pretend that Stalin was a good representative of the philosophy.

--Anthony

First Stalin. Can Hitler be far behind? You're making up stories to protect your ideals. I read your 14 Lumanist Principles of Governance www.fireflyfans.net/profileshow.aspx?u=3049

In the real world, not the abstract Lumanist world, the Libertarian doctor saw the profit-sharing as a voluntary gift to his employees. My sister saw it that way, too. Only when the judge threatened to revoke parole did the money start flowing. The doctor was still pretending he had all the time in the world because my sister is decades away from retirement. And the Libertarian restauranteur saw Social Security tax as theft of his money. He wasn't going to pay Washington for the future retirement of illegal aliens that bussed his tables. They weren't suppose to be here; why should they have Social Security?

I'm sure these two were skilled enough to twist your doctrine to absolve themselves of blame:
Quote:

8. Government may not restrict trading and commerce between informed and consenting partners, but it may enforce rules to prevent dishonesty.

9. Individuals have a right to privacy, and government shall not impose upon that privacy by legislating the details of relationships between competent, consenting individuals. Nor shall government legislate any detail of private life that does not expressly and provably infringe on the rights and freedoms of other citizens.

This was "commerce" and "private". See how that works?

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, June 8, 2012 8:57 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
You responded with words - that is a reply, by definition.

REPLY: 1.
to make answer in words or writing; answer; respond: to reply to a question.

It's even the FIRST definition (I note this, since you have shown a tendency to pick and choose definitions)

It's cute how you stamp your feet, and deny doing what you obvilously did - and then call everyone else childish. You are a master at projection, bravo! Throw another tantrum, they're always fun to watch!

Like Kwick said, you'r doing it wrong, son. Not replying means... you know... not making a response - at all.


And if he did not reply you would accuse him of dodging the remark.
So unlike yourself, no matter what Auraptor does, he is wrong.
Is that about right?

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Friday, June 8, 2012 9:22 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I didn't reply to the comment, I just said it was idiotic. Which means, I didn't address its content, because it was too idiotic to do so.






So when you "didn't reply to the comment", which button did you hit? Did you press the "Reply with Quote" button or the "Not Worthy of Reply" button?


By the way, that's now TWO replies you've given me on this comment which you said wasn't worth even one. Wanna bet you'll go for three or more?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Friday, June 8, 2012 9:23 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

First Stalin. Can Hitler be far behind?


Hello,

Not if you want to point out people who are poor representatives of their claimed philosophies, which is what I am doing. Nobody would credit either of them with representing the ideals of socialism, no matter what they claimed their operating principles were.

Quote:

In the real world, not the abstract Lumanist world, the Libertarian doctor saw the profit-sharing as a voluntary gift to his employees.


If so, how can he take it back? My company discontinued their pension plan shortly after I got hired, but they didn't steal back the money I'd already been given under that plan. Anything gifted to me is mine, and if this 'gift' was part of my employment package then it can't be revoked. There is no Libertarian angle where this would be acceptable.

Quote:

This was "commerce" and "private". See how that works?


Not really.

Quote:

but it may enforce rules to prevent dishonesty.


If there's an agreement that you are going to get something, and you don't get it, that's dishonesty.

--Anthony












Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Friday, June 8, 2012 9:44 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Quote:

but it may enforce rules to prevent dishonesty.


If there's an agreement that you are going to get something, and you don't get it, that's dishonesty.

--Anthony

You say the people are poor representatives of their claimed philosophies. I say you're a defense lawyer talking BS to get your client off.

I go for the simplest case so you probably can't miss the point that the restauranteur was following your Lumanist Principles. He had no agreements, at all, with his illegal aliens. They bus tables for cash and go away every evening, maybe to be never seen again. So how can there be any dishonesty when the alien is paid every day? The judge did not see it that way. The social security tax wasn't being paid because the restauranteur knew his employees and what they expected -- the agreed behavior. That is why the scam went on for years until one of the legal employees accidentally (the legal had the same uncommon Spanish name as an illegal, unfortunately) and got the same shabby treatment that was given to the illegals. The legal employee complained and then came the day of reckoning with the Feds.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, June 8, 2012 9:57 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

You say the people are poor representatives of their claimed philosophies. I say you're a defense lawyer talking BS to get your client off.

I go for the simplest case so you probably can't miss the point that the restauranteur was following your Lumanist Principles. He had no agreements, at all, with his illegal aliens. They bus tables for cash and go away every evening, maybe to be never seen again. So how can there be any dishonesty when the alien is paid every day? The judge did not see it that way. The social security tax wasn't being paid because the restauranteur knew his employees and what they expected -- the agreed behavior. That is why the scam went on for years until one of the legal employees accidentally got the same shabby treatment that was given to the illegals. The legal employee complained and then came the day of reckoning with the Feds.



Hello,

I don't have a 'client' in this fight. And I'm not talking B.S. They ARE poor representatives for their claimed philosophies.

As for the Lumanist principles, I'm afraid your Social Security cheating employer doesn't live in a Lumanist nation (there isn't one) and he doesn't live in a Libertarian nation either (a truly Libertarian nation would be unlikely to recognize the concept of illegal aliens anyway.)

I'm really not sure what you're so excited about, or why you want to use these people as the standard bearers for Libertarianism. (Or for Lumanism, for that matter!)

Do you know how many Lumanists there are in the world?

--Anthony

ETA Comment to this:
Quote:

so you probably can't miss the point that the restauranteur was following your Lumanist Principles.


And no, he wasn't. Not at all. Not that such principles are in any way germaine to this discussion, but no, he wasn't.




Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Saturday, June 9, 2012 2:18 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Do you know how many Lumanists there are in the world?

--Anthony

One? Counting yourself?

Getting back on track -- Lets mention legendary Libertarian douche-bag Congressman Paul Ryan, who recently decided that it is not to his advantage to be identified as Libertarian, so suddenly he never was one: http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/04/26/471730/paul-ryan-ayn-rand/

Paul Ryan's budget roadmap for the USA is Libertarian. No surprise he claims his budget is not Libertarian and never was. He seems like a person you'd like to negotiate with, but there's nothing to negotiate over. Ryan is waging a zero sum fight over resources on behalf of the most fortunate members of society and against everybody else. www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/paul-ryan-and-the-republican-vision http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/ryan-in-two-numbers/

The world needs an dual emoticon signifying both weariness with Libertarians' nonstop glibness and wariness of making deals with them. Maybe I could just mark their foreheads with my special ink stamp carved from a rubber eraser with the letters "BS" so it's obvious what Libertarianism stands for? But that would violate your principle # 7: "Individuals have a right to speak and express their opinions freely without fear of . . . reprisal." www.fireflyfans.net/profileshow.aspx?u=3049

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Saturday, June 9, 2012 5:41 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

One? Counting yourself?


Hello,

Yup. When I realized that some of my beliefs were not compatible with Libertarian philosophy, I began using my bio space as a sketchboard for any ideas I had for good governance. Every time I have an idea, or refine one, the sketchboard gets updated. Hopefully I'll eventually have a nearly complete worldview represented there. I'm currently struggling with the concept of war.

Quote:

Maybe I could just mark their foreheads with my special ink stamp carved from a rubber eraser with the letters "BS" so it's obvious what Libertarianism stands for?


I suppose you are trying to be humorous but really you just seem very antagonistic.

Quote:

But that would violate your principle # 7: "Individuals have a right to speak and express their opinions freely without fear of . . . reprisal."


Well, I hope any good system of government would have such a concept. Do you lament it?

Putting aside your hatred and desire to assault all Libertarians everywhere, what exactly is it that you DO want?

--Anthony

ETA:
Quote:

No surprise he claims his budget is not Libertarian and never was.


It doesn't seem to be. For sure his voting record indicates he's not. I just looked up the things he's voted for and if he ever claimed Libertarian principles, he needs a Pinocchio nose.
http://www.issues2000.org/House/Paul_Ryan.htm
Just look at his Homeland Security voting record.




Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Saturday, June 9, 2012 5:53 AM

HKCAVALIER




Okay, now I understand. Was wondering, "What does any of this have to do with 19th Century American Painting?"

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, June 9, 2012 11:18 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by MINCINGBEAST:
Not a fan of Cracked, but spot on, even if it doesn't go far enough. The title ought to be "It is laudable to be an adolescent douche bag" or "Being an adolescent douche bag is actually a philosophy."



Then you clearly don't know what it means to be a Libertarian.


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, June 9, 2012 11:22 AM

HKCAVALIER


Um. Objectivism does not equal Libertarianism. Not by a long shot. Not all Libertarians are adolescent d-bags. But the vast majority of Objectivists emphatically are. The few that aren't are just middle aged d-bags.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, June 9, 2012 6:28 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by MINCINGBEAST:
Not a fan of Cracked, but spot on, even if it doesn't go far enough. The title ought to be "It is laudable to be an adolescent douche bag" or "Being an adolescent douche bag is actually a philosophy."



Then you clearly don't know what it means to be a Libertarian.





You've already clearly shown that you have no idea what it means. You weren't even willing to put your "knowledge" of what it means to be a libertarian to the test against KPO.


Of course, that's all beside the point, because once again you fail at reading comprehension. Rand herself was not a libertarian, so making fun of her books is only making fun of libertarians if you're enough of a d-bag to think it's all about you, all the time. Or you think that Mincing was speaking directly to you just because he ridiculed Rand's beliefs as "it is laudable to be an adolescent douche bag." It's rather revealing that you took that one so much to heart, when it wasn't directed towards you or your professed beliefs, since you keep on claiming that you're a libertarian, not a Randroid Objectivist.

Rand called her own cheap "philosophy" egoism or Objectivism, but not libertarianism.

If you can't see the difference, then clearly you have no idea what being a libertarian is.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Sunday, June 10, 2012 4:16 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Yes, not wanting an oppressive govt taking what you've worked for amounts to being d- bag.FAIL.
Yes, not wanting an oppressive profiteer taking what you've worked for amounts to being d-bag
Fixed it for you.

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Sunday, June 10, 2012 4:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Cracked is very leftist (read:left side of the bell curve). I like some of the articles... but damn, they've gone off the derp end.


Ah, WULF. He never looked at Cracked before this thread and his knowledge of it is as deep as the picture that was just posted. Which didn't prevent him from spouting off on something he knows nothing about. But... how is that different from any other of his posts?

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Sunday, June 10, 2012 4:27 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh, and speaking of CRACKED...


Here is a GREAT commercial of SIRI... "tell my wife"....

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6648229/siri-argument

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