REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Can 46 rich dudes buy an election?

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 16:32
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Monday, March 26, 2012 6:01 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Lest anyone has forgotten...
Quote:

Taking advantage of relaxed campaign finance laws, a cadre of deep-pocketed donors are spending gobs of money to bankroll super PACs, a phenomenon that is reshaping the modern election cycle.

It is a select group. The top 100 individual super PAC donors make up just 3.7% of those who have contributed to the new money vehicles, but account for more than 80% of the total money raised, according to data from the Center for Responsive Politics.

And just the top 46 donors have given a total of $67 million, or two-thirds of the $112 million in individual gifts to super PACs this cycle. Membership in this select group requires a $500,000 minimum donation.

So who are these folks?

Donors who have given in excess of $500,000 are a rather homogenous group who represent narrow swaths of American industry.

Titans of the financial services industry are well represented, as are energy executives and hoteliers. Almost all are men. Racial minorities are few and far between. So far, the vast majority of their contributions have been made to conservative groups.

"We're looking at a singularly weird phenomenon," said John Dunbar, the managing editor for politics at the Center for Public Integrity.

Critics argue that the eye-popping size of donations from individuals raise important questions about their motivations and the ability of the wealthy to influence candidates and the election.

"American elections are funded by a very narrow range of special interests, and that has the effect of making our democracy look a lot more like a plutocracy," Ryan said.

Thomas Mann, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, said that it is difficult to discern the motivations of super-wealthy donors. Are they driven by ideology, economic interests, or some combination of the two?

Harold Simmons, who played a central role in the development of leveraged buyouts and corporate takeovers, offered some insight into that question last week.

Simmons has given $18 million to conservative super PACs this cycle, and has pledged millions more. In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, he displayed a deep unhappiness with President Obama, calling him a "socialist."

At the same time, Simmons' current business interests would benefit greatly from less government regulation of certain industries, and he told the WSJ that if Republicans do well in November, "we can block that crap [regulations]."

"So which is it?" Mann asked. "He may be a good businessman, but if he can make a comment like that about Obama, I'd say his ideology overwhelms his self interest."

To date, conservative super PACs have far outpaced fundraising efforts by Democrats. "The pool of billionaires who can throw tens of millions into the game -- and are inclined to do so -- is concentrated on the right," Mann said.

In the end, the most notable affect of super PACs might not be on the presidential race, but rather on Congressional elections.

Mann and Dunbar both expressed worry about the use of super PAC money in House and Senate races, where relatively small amounts of money can have an outsized impact.

"An individual donor and a super PAC could go off to some district in Kentucky and just completely destroy some candidate because he doesn't favor what's good for your business," Dunbar said. http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/26/news/economy/super-pac-donors/index.ht
m?iid=GM

"Plutocracy"? To me, "corpocracy" is more like it...

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Monday, March 26, 2012 6:55 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


But interestingly enough, all the current Republican candidates except Romney have raised a higher percentage of their money from small contributions ($200.00 or less) than Obama.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-03-20/obama-gop--fund
raising-february/53676854/1?loc=interstitialskip

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Monday, March 26, 2012 7:16 AM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE


Actually, the article doesnt say that.

It gives info which allows one to come to that conclusion for the month of February, but doesnt give percentages anywhere else.

Wow, u even distort your own sources, thats impressive.

Also, he has raised significantly more money from small contributions than all of the repubs combines, just his percentage isnt as high, since he raises so much money.

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Monday, March 26, 2012 7:17 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Geezer, it's nice to know you want to get rid of super PACs and abolish the idea that corporations are people. Good on ya!

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Monday, March 26, 2012 7:24 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


As Geezer likes to point out, it's not exactly *lying*, but it's not quite telling the truth, either. I believe he refers to such tactics as "propaganda."

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, March 26, 2012 8:41 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I don't think it's that simple. The Republicans have been in a primary, which seems to me more likely to interest people to donate in order to get their candidate nominated. I think I'll wait until the general election really starts to see how the percentages come out. It's natural to me that the Big Guys would be ahead of the curve when it comes to gearing up, and Obama just recently started running. We'll see what the percentages are once it becomes a two-man race.

Doesn't change the fact of who's funding the campaign, and I won't like it if Obama's campaign ends up getting more large donors than small ones, but time will tell.



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Monday, March 26, 2012 10:50 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Just to be a snarky, right-wing devil's advocate ( and I'm surprised none of them has mentioned this), is Bill Mahr one of those 46 guys? Does his $1 million to the Obama Super PAC count?

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Monday, March 26, 2012 11:28 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by BlueHandedMenace:
Actually, the article doesnt say that.

It gives info which allows one to come to that conclusion for the month of February, but doesnt give percentages anywhere else.

Wow, u even distort your own sources, thats impressive.



Read it again. Looks like your bias is what's doing the distorting.

The chart at the top of the article is total contributions as of Feb. 29.

"Here's a look at how much cash and debt the five leading presidential candidates have accumulated as of Feb. 29."

Then the columns are labeled "Candidate" and "Total Receipts"

Farther down in the article it notes Obama raised $21.3 in February, but the $172,704,222 in the chart, and all other figures there, are total accumulations for the 2012 election cycle.

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Monday, March 26, 2012 11:30 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer, it's nice to know you want to get rid of super PACs and abolish the idea that corporations are people. Good on ya!



SignyM, I've always though corporations should be treated like corporations. As I recall, you're the one who proposed they be treated, in some instances, as individuals.

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Monday, March 26, 2012 11:32 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
As Geezer likes to point out, it's not exactly *lying*, but it's not quite telling the truth, either. I believe he refers to such tactics as "propaganda."



No, Mike. I call it BHM failing reading comprehension.

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Monday, March 26, 2012 11:35 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I think I'll wait until the general election really starts to see how the percentages come out. It's natural to me that the Big Guys would be ahead of the curve when it comes to gearing up, and Obama just recently started running. We'll see what the percentages are once it becomes a two-man race.



Considering that Obama has already raised more than the remaining Republican contenders combined, and you consider that he's "just recently started running", you should probably hope that money buys the election.

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Monday, March 26, 2012 1:07 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
But interestingly enough, all the current Republican candidates except Romney have raised a higher percentage of their money from small contributions ($200.00 or less) than Obama.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-03-20/obama-gop--fund
raising-february/53676854/1?loc=interstitialskip



None of them has gotten my money. I might not give anything but my vote. If that.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Monday, March 26, 2012 2:21 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I think I'll wait until the general election really starts to see how the percentages come out. It's natural to me that the Big Guys would be ahead of the curve when it comes to gearing up, and Obama just recently started running. We'll see what the percentages are once it becomes a two-man race.



Considering that Obama has already raised more than the remaining Republican contenders combined, and you consider that he's "just recently started running", you should probably hope that money buys the election.




Hello,

Money only buys the election if we buy what the PAC sells.

I'm ashamed of us, the citizenry, for what we will buy. Is it really so simple that if you blare a message at us long enough and loud enough and often enough we'll believe it?

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Monday, March 26, 2012 3:20 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I think the answer to the subject question is unfortunately yes. :(
(how do people usually make an angry face? I sometimes do it like this :l or like this :o but I want to know how one is supposed to do it in a socially recognizable sense. I think more faces will be helpful.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise

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Monday, March 26, 2012 4:12 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Is it really so simple that if you blare a message at us long enough and loud enough and often enough we'll believe it?



Unfortunately, that's probably the case. "We can get something for nothing" or "God wants it this way" seem to appeal to a lot of people. Bread and circuses, anyone?

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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:54 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

I'm ashamed of us, the citizenry, for what we will buy. Is it really so simple that if you blare a message at us long enough and loud enough and often enough we'll believe it?
As you said, apparently so. Tho' it hasn't worked in all states, I see, it happens all too often. I'm ashamed of us as a people as well.

Unfortunately it's an illustration of the fact that so many aren't willing to find the facts for themselves but prefer to swallow what they're told. Which puts those with power in the media and those with money to lie in advertising in charge most of the time. It's sad that some haven't correlated the fact that advertisements lie in order to get us to buy something with the fact that political advertisements are merely doing the same.

The one that blew my mind was the Romney ad:
Quote:

Obama's words were edited in a section where he is heard to say, “If we keep talking about the economy, we’re going to lose.” Obama was actually quoting his Republican opponent. The full quote is: “Senator McCain’s campaign actually said, and I quote, if we keep talking about the economy, we’re going to lose.”
That's so blatant it's unbelievable.





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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 4:32 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Actually Geezer, what I said was IF corporations have individual rights, then they should have individual responsibilities too. Thought-experiments not your forte?

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