REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Homegrown Terrorism, Courtesy of the U.S. Government

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Monday, February 20, 2012 14:26
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1115
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Friday, February 17, 2012 4:33 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/17/justice/us-dc-security-threat-arrest/ind
ex.html?hpt=hp_t1


Hello,

So let me see if I've got the details right.

This man, with an expired Visa, made some violent statements about the United States. He was reported.

The United States then approached this man, pretending to be a terrorist organization.

The United States then furnished this man with fake explosives and firearms.

The United States then arrested this man when he tried to make use of his fake gear.

Now the United States is charging this man for attempting to use a Weapon of Mass Destruction (when did that term begin to refer to explosive vests?)

To sum up: We found an angry man, contacted him with support, armed him, and arrested him for doing what we prepped him to do.

The government has stated he is disconnected from any terrorist group, and was acting alone (Actually, with U.S. government help.)

How is this a victory in the fight against terrorism? We seem to be manufacturing terrorists so that we can arrest them.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner



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Friday, February 17, 2012 4:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



This can't be. Only Bush/Cheney/Haliburton/Rumsfeld would phony up a false terrorist threat , during an election year, and then claim we caught the very guy we all but put up to " attack " us in the 1st place.

Right?




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, February 17, 2012 5:01 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

This can't be. Only Bush/Cheney/Haliburton/Rumsfeld would phony up a false terrorist threat , during an election year, and then claim we caught the very guy we all but put up to " attack " us in the 1st place.

Right?




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



Hello,

Did they do that, too?

Damn, it's an epidemic.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Friday, February 17, 2012 5:02 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Did they do that, too?




That was the charge, which many on the Left tried to make, as I recall.

Well, it was implied, at least. What was more often claimed was the threat levels were artificially raised and lowered, at the whim of the powers that be, for primarily political purposes, and having little to do w/ actual national security.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, February 17, 2012 5:56 PM

BYTEMITE


I'm sure it's all of the above.

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Friday, February 17, 2012 6:23 PM

OONJERAH



It musta been a slow day in Terror Prevention Land.


"All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest" ~Paul Simon

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Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:21 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I can't know, and we probably never will, whether this guy would have acted on his own, found others who would supply him and help him, or was just a guy who was duped by the FBI. To me it seems he was pretty serious about it, and he was an illegal immigrant, so I should think the right would be all over him. Of course, that's not possible, given it's the Obama Administration.
Quote:

Sidi Mohamed Amine El Khalifi came to the United States on June 27, 1999 with his parents on a trip to Orlando, Florida. The baby-faced, brown-eyed Moroccan teenager would overstay his tourist visa and remain here for more than a decade, moving from Kissimmee, Florida to Northern Virginia. He worked at odd jobs and had occasional minor scrapes with the law, including a marijuana charge and traffic infractions.

Khalifi stayed illegally, never applying for citizenship; he flew under the radar of law enforcement and immigration officials until the early days of 2011.

At an apartment in Arlington, Virginia, on Jan. 11, 2011, a confidential informant for the FBI's Counter Terrorism Division reported to his handlers that he watched as El Khalifi, by then, 28 years old, listened as another man said, "The war on terror is a war on Muslims." El Khalifi watched as the man produced an AK-47 rifle, two revolvers and ammunition, and discussed what the group needed to do to be ready to fight back.

Over the next year, FBI agents, detectives from the U.S. Capitol Police, and other investigators from the sprawling Joint Terrorism Task Force that covers the National Capitol Region, kept close tabs on El Khalifi. El Khalifi allegedly kept discussing his desires to launch a terrorist attack. The investigators kept gathering intelligence.

Over the course of the next several months, {it} became to clear to the Joint Terrorism Task Force investigators and their FBI bosses that El Khalifi was determined to move forward.
.....
El Khalifi's alleged plans ranged from attacking a synagogue, to a restaurant frequented by U.S. generals and admirals, and to a building in downtown Arlington that housed Department of Defense offices.

According to the FBI, he went so far as to have a gun to shoot his way past Capitol police to get into the building so he could detonate himself inside the Capitol building. When Hussien, Yusuf and El Kahlifi had tested a bomb in a quarry on Jan. 15, 2012, El Khalifi allegedly told the men he believed to be his al Qaeda handlers that he wanted more explosives, a bigger bomb -- if not enough to destroy the whole building,at least enough to kill 30 people. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-57380678-503543/inside-the-plan
s-of-capitol-bomb-suspect/
that, I doubt we'll ever know. It APPEARS that they discovered him, watched him, decided he was serious and went after him. Whether they were right or wrong is something I can't judge.

The two things I can say is he didn't just have an "expired visa", he deliberately stayed for many years and was an illegal alien. Nobody approached him until he himself said he wanted to act. He went so far as to test a bomb...THOSE explosives weren't "fake". And according to the article you posted, "the suspect went out on his own to buy component pieces for an improvised explosive device." Beyond that, I don't know enough to judge.



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Saturday, February 18, 2012 1:42 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Local lawyer Kurt Haskell got to testify on that one, you might find said testimony, summary therof, and aftermath, quite interesting.
http://haskellfamily.blogspot.com/

Mind you he'd not want my assistance cause he don't trust me not a whit, and there's some resentment in general from folks who were up a certain point on the other side of the fence initially towards folk like me when the boom comes down and the blinders come off...

This bit from LDR is also relevant.
Washington DC: FBI Foils Own Terror Plot (Again)
Quote:

In 1993 the FBI was carrying out an identical "sting operation" in New York City. The target was the World Trade Center, the weapon of choice would be a bomb-laden van, that like the above mentioned attacks, was supposed to contain an inert device. Helping the FBI was an Egyptian informant, Emad Salem, who over the course of the investigation grew suspicious of the federal agents and began recording his phone conversations with them.

From these recordings released by the New York Times, it turns out that the FBI switched out the inert device for real explosives at the last moment resulting in an attack that killed 6 and injured over a thousand. Despite this evidence, the 1993 bombing is still to this day attributed to "terrorists" with the FBI's involvement muted if ever mentioned.

The implications are of course, with the FBI's current nationwide stable of patsies being trained, directed, and provided material support to carry out attacks the FBI then "foils," is at any given moment, any one of these operations can be switched "live" just as in 1993. The resulting carnage can then be used to manipulate public opinion just as it was in 1993, 2001, on 7/7 in London, and in Madrid, Spain in 2004.


While not sure I actually agree with that last statement there, it *IS* a point of view I feel we have to take into account and consider, because without an iota of doubt the FBI is in fact most responsible for WTC1993 either by incompetence or design - and what's happened once can happen again, so what if the next patsy they wind up happens to be more competent than they expected ?

This is, I think, equivalent to a police officer buying someone drinks, following them to their car, then allowing them to get in and drive in hopes of making a DUI/DWI bust, bonus points if they cause a wreck - at some point the so-called protector becomes a PARTICIPANT in the crime, and this should be viewed, and prosecuted, accordingly within our courts, although it is not as the agencies in question, being "The Law", seem to feel they are above it.

Ergo, much in the fashion as Washtenaw County has previously retaliated against their own formerly very corrupt and abusive so-called protectors, I posit that we reach for the one string we have left - their budget.

Cut them off from the financial ABILITY to do things like this, make them accountable for every penny, audit them regularly and put the kibosh on crap like this before they even get it off the ground - and in the meantime, press hard to prosecute them as the terrorists they are, for what is terrorism but deliberately causing, invoking, and using fear to control the actions of others ?

The real enemies of freedom are right here, have been all along, hiding behind badges.

-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.

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Sunday, February 19, 2012 9:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

It musta been a slow day in Terror Prevention Land.


"All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest" ~Paul Simon



Well, it usually is, until it isn't.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, February 19, 2012 9:19 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Should people be allowed to pose as Al Qaida reps and test to see if people will go for it? Well tthat is done in many other arenas of crime, so I'm going to say yes for now, a similar situation went down in my city last year, this young man was all ready to blow up a function downtown, planted the fake explosives and everything with them ready to blow up when he was arrested and informed it was a trick and he went for it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, February 20, 2012 4:04 AM

CAVETROLL


Since the FBI solicited this man to conduct the crime, isn't that entrapment? Didn't they learn their lesson with John DeLorean?

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Monday, February 20, 2012 7:28 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


If reports are correct, you're missing that they only WATCHED him for over a year, until "Over the course of the next several months, {it} became to clear to the Joint Terrorism Task Force investigators and their FBI bosses that El Khalifi was determined to move forward." I assume you'd rather he'd found someone who REALLY wanted to help him and provided him with the REAL tools to do it before they took any action?

Given the reports say he changed his mind several times as to the target, I wouldn't see it as "soliciting" him to commit the crime. As I said, I can't know the truth of it, none of us can, we can only make extrapolations from what we're told. If they truly watched him for that long and saw that he was going to go for it anyway, I wouldn't object to them sidetracking him the way they did. IF that's what happened.



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Monday, February 20, 2012 11:03 AM

CAVETROLL


IF that is what happened, you're okay with the government telling you to go for it, and then slapping you in irons when you do?

This is the way the country ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper.

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Monday, February 20, 2012 12:18 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Riona, it's perfectly legal for the govt to lie to us, but we can't lie to the govt.

Please make a note of it.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, February 20, 2012 12:58 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

If reports are correct, you're missing that they only WATCHED him for over a year, until "Over the course of the next several months, {it} became to clear to the Joint Terrorism Task Force investigators and their FBI bosses that El Khalifi was determined to move forward." I assume you'd rather he'd found someone who REALLY wanted to help him and provided him with the REAL tools to do it before they took any action?


Hello,

Of course. Forgive me for saying so, but even a mentally impaired monkey could have done a better job. They stopped an angry man who may have been incapable of doing anything without assistance. Hardly noteworthy.

If they had waited for him to get in contact with an actual terrorist organization who provided him with actual terrorist supplies, they could have brought down an entire network of terrorists. Or at least people willing to supply terrorists.

The only reason not to do this is if you believe the man is not a credible threat. Then, if you want to justify your time and money spent observing him (and not deporting him like you're supposed to!), you have to give him a little push. And so you get your arrest, your press, your budget, and your promotion. All by creating a credible threat where none previously existed.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Monday, February 20, 2012 2:26 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Anthony has a good point.

Raptor, you can lie to the government, ... as long as you don't get caught at it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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