REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The origins of the gimmie-gimmie mentaltiy ? The entitlement mindset.

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Friday, October 14, 2022 04:59
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Sunday, December 4, 2011 9:46 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

There's no 'may be' about it. You were completely wrong, and it's not even close. Someone else here, perhaps, you have confused me with, or maybe on another message board?
Possibly. I already said I was wrong. But what about your assessment of the economy/WMD/UN Resolution 1441/ Fannie-Freddie/ the Constitution/ and"freedom"? When are you going to man up and admit your were wrong? (Not holding my breath on that one!)
Quote:

In this case, how do you NOT stop this lady from having more kids ? She's clearly shown she's an unfit mother. This isn't some reality show, 19, 20 and counting, or what ever. This is ' 15,and I forget which one's your daddy. Go on! Stop botherin' me !
So you would tie her tubes because she's an "unfit mother"?

First of all, what about the baby daddies? Don't they deserve a little snip-snip too? I mean, in the interests of fairness.

And as far as depriving someone of their "inalienable" rights (just goes to show how "inalienable" they really are! ) isn't that only done when someone has committed a crime? So when was the indictment? The trial? The conviction?

As far as I'm concerned, you really haven't explained how you can be a supporter of the Constitution (as you say you are) and yet deprive someone of the right to "be secure in their persons" ... especially without due process of law.

So, would you create a law requiring mothers (and, presumably fathers) to be "fit", and make the punishment for violating the law sterilization? I'm just trying to get a bead on how you make that transition, and in my mind you still haven't explained it, although you keep bringing up your outrage over and over again.

Just so you know, I get that you're outraged already. You DON'T need to bring it up again, I promise! But your reasoning is lagging behind your emotions. So try bringing up something where you DON'T reference your emotions, if that's at all possible.

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Monday, December 5, 2011 3:16 AM

DREAMTROVE


Kiki, I think Magon nailed it:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I've read a lot of stuff that has made me think, see things from a different viewpoint and maybe even tinkered with some of my believe systems.

You may not go from being a die hard republican to a strident socialist, but there may be some areas where you think a little differently.



People move a little, not a lot.

Some core beliefs are based on a world view. If I think that certain trains of thought end in genocide, or Frem thinks certain trains of thought end in a police state, then we're not likely to cave a lifetime position to a 200 word post that essentially is trying to sell the idea of "trust us, it won't happen again."

The people here who have most moved me from where I started are probably Frem and Pirate News. I think I've generally moved left since I got here, but I'm not sure whose fault that is. Most people have some impact on me, some more than others, which probably has something to do with me as well as them. Those that oppose positions at 180 degrees are likely to have no effect on my position, those who aim to nudge are probably more successful.




That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Monday, December 5, 2011 1:59 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Okay rappy, I'm really hoping for a response. HOW do you get from supporting "freedom" to advocating involuntary sterilization?

What is the process by which you can protect persons' "rights" generally, but make an exception for this? Something beyond This is an outrage! because ... we get that already. I'm not looking to beat you over the head, but I would like to know what you're thinking.

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Monday, December 5, 2011 4:51 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

As for the issue of WMD, yeah, the intel was incomplete, and much of what we were TOLD was not the case.

...And it's okay to act on incomplete intel & what someone TELLS you.




That's how the real world works, Chris. Your CIA director says the evidence is a " slam dunk ", you take that into consideration, with all the other evidence you have, and you make a decision.




So that would be a "no" on the whole "personal responsibility" thing, then.

Thanks, Mike. You summed it up with a pretty floral bow on top!
'Nuff said.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, December 5, 2011 6:13 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I do not believe forced sterilization is okay. It is wrong, even when there are people I wish would go and get themselves fixed, the government should never be allowed to make that decision for a person. I'm getting my own self fixed based on several factors, but if someone in my position wants to make babies I can't stop them nor should the government be able to.

I hate that this woman would keep having babies over and over that she can't take care of, I don't know why she does it, maybe to get money from the government, maybe because she's stupid and doesn't get the concept of birth control, probably the former because birth control is a pretty basic concept. But one bad apple doesn't mean we should sterilize anyone, no matter how bad that apple may be.

Wish, I understand on an emotional level what you're saying, but chances are the foster care system will be crappier parents than the parents who birthed the kids, so your quiz system would create more problems than it would solve, not to mention that just because you _feel a way about something doesn't mean its okay to actually _do. I'm with DT in that if we give such unprecidented power to the government they'll abuse it and children, and everyone, will suffer. Its not okay for the government to have that much power over its citizenry. Plus its way easy to fake answers to those sort of quizzes. I wish that people were more educated before reproducing too, but we can't, and shouldn't, force people to pass a test before taking a baby home.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, December 5, 2011 6:57 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
I do not believe forced sterilization is okay. It is wrong, even when there are people I wish would go and get themselves fixed, the government should never be allowed to make that decision for a person. I'm getting my own self fixed based on several factors, but if someone in my position wants to make babies I can't stop them nor should the government be able to.

I hate that this woman would keep having babies over and over that she can't take care of, I don't know why she does it, maybe to get money from the government, maybe because she's stupid and doesn't get the concept of birth control, probably the former because birth control is a pretty basic concept. But one bad apple doesn't mean we should sterilize anyone, no matter how bad that apple may be.




You've got a better handle on this than most people do.

And I'm not advocating this or anything, just throwing the idea out there for discussion:

What if she and others in a similar predicament were offered CASH to get fixed?

It sounds harsh, but if you're offering to pay someone a lump sum, and you're not forcing them, if they're poor or pragmatic, they might take you up on it.

Is that better than forced sterilization? Or worse? Or the same?

As I said, I'm not for it, but I'm not in a position to have to ever deal with it on a personal basis, either.

Quote:


Wish, I understand on an emotional level what you're saying, but chances are the foster care system will be crappier parents than the parents who birthed the kids, so your quiz system would create more problems than it would solve, not to mention that just because you _feel a way about something doesn't mean its okay to actually _do. I'm with DT in that if we give such unprecidented power to the government they'll abuse it and children, and everyone, will suffer. Its not okay for the government to have that much power over its citizenry. Plus its way easy to fake answers to those sort of quizzes. I wish that people were more educated before reproducing too, but we can't, and shouldn't, force people to pass a test before taking a baby home.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya



And that's the crux of it. Do we sterilize people we deem "unfit" or "undesirable"? Do we take their children away and give them to "better" people?

And if we're willing to "fix" someone like this, what about a wealthy congressman who owes more than $100k in child support and won't pay up? Can we forcibly sterilize him to make sure he doesn't have more children he won't support? Do we snip the vas deferens of every deadbeat dad out there, just to make sure?



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, December 5, 2011 7:02 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Sig,

You feel as if you've answered me , so I guess I've already answered you.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, December 6, 2011 4:39 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Hi Quicko, I have to admit that the idea of giving people money if they get fixed appeals to me on some level. I think it would be wrong to do it, for the government to do it, but I secretly like the idea. I know that as soon as a suitable mate for me comes along I'll be trying to coerce my insurance (public I might add) to cover it because I'm totally doing them a favor, I'm going out of my way to not produce more defective-bodied and brained children for them to support, so they should totally pay for it, everybody wins by me getting sterilized, it saves them lots of money in the long run. We'll see what they think.

ETA: The problem with the government paying people to get fixed is that it isn't the government's business to poke around in that arena and if they did they'd come up with criteria for determining who would get paid to get fixed etc. and that is a dangerous road that I'm not willing to travel, especially not with something as creepy as The Government. It would be a bad thing ultimately..

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, December 6, 2011 4:46 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Sig,

You feel as if you've answered me , so I guess I've already answered you.



In other words...


"RUN AWAY!!!"



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, October 14, 2022 4:59 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Gibs Me Dat?

Don Lemon is stunned into silence when royal commentator says African kings should pay reparations

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11231183/Don-Lemon-stunned-si
lence-royal-commentator-says-African-kings-pay-reparations.html

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