The fate of the world by WashsYoungerSexierBr

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The fate of the world

POSTED BY: WASHSYOUNGERSEXIERBR
UPDATED: Friday, December 2, 2011 05:17
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VIEWED: 1745
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Tuesday, November 29, 2011 10:42 PM

Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges

I'm gonna stop reading the news. Everyday it seems the world is going backwards. The government is penny pinching from peoples pensions and cutting tax credits for the bottom bracket households whilst big business is allowed to skip off paying taxes. Peaceful protests are being shut down through violent police action whilst bankers enjoy six figure bonuses as we slip into a double dip recession. Scotland is going to start charging exorbitant fees for English students. People are protesting against loving healthy relationships because two people happen to be of the same sex whilst celebrities are adored and worshipped over 24 hour marriages. Governments are pouring huge resources into holding peace in a country we invaded for no reason whilst ex army veterans kill themselves because they cannot afford to eat. Higher education funding is being cut all around with fewer PhD places available, who's going to cure diseases if nobody can get educated? The world is headed on a swift spiral in the wrong direction.

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Tuesday, November 29, 2011 11:22 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Don't panic. It's not as bad as everyone says. The world has always been full of shit and full of good stuff.

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Wednesday, November 30, 2011 4:12 AM

WISHIMAY

Yep, I have days like that too.
Then I remember chocolate.Mmmmmm.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. It's prolly not gonna fix much...but you'll feel shiny

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Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:00 AM

FIVVER

Just relax and enjoy. I don't think the headlines have changed much in millenia. This song was written in 1958...

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Wednesday, November 30, 2011 6:23 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Hang in there, Washs, they're right, and the pendulum always swings--it's already swinging on some of that stuff. But definitely DO avoid the news if it makes you feel this way; you need to take care of YOU, the rest will do its own thing anyway, and the world has always been fucked up in twenty ways or others. Think of some of the gains the world has made:

We have a Black President (admittedly as useless as all the others, but it's forward movement in that respect)

More people accept gays and same-sex marriage than ever before in America, laws are changing, and there is a younger generation coming up who mostly don't take it as seriously as their parents

We're getting out of Iraq, finally! (Or at leat mostly...)

The country always swings right, then left, then right again; it's just that the right overreached this time and the swing from right to left to right and now headed left again was VERY fast

Celebrities, be they movie stars, rock stars, sports stars or any such have always been revered and allowed to get away with what normal people wouldn't--look back to the beginning of talkies, it was true then; that's nothing new

Protesters CHOOSE to put themselves in harm's way; we OWSers have a long, long way to go and it's gonna get real ugly, we know and accept that. Violence by TPTB just helps our cause. But look how fast Occupies appeared all over the country...people are waking up

There's lots more, and some of it has been around for centuries; there will always be ignorant people, at all times in history.

I know how you feel, I've done the same. It's good to take a break from the news, or get away from it altogether. Your mental health is the priority; do things in your own life and let the world take care of itself, it always does.

Oh, and welcome to RWED, haven't met you before. Watch out tho'; it's a snake pit down here, and most likely not good for your mental health either!

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Wednesday, November 30, 2011 6:33 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
But look how fast Occupies appeared all over the country...people are waking up

This is the biggest reason for hope that I've seen in quite a while!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, November 30, 2011 6:41 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Our country is always dancing on the edge of a knife. Its just the way we are.

Some things get better, some things get worse.

Some good things, IMHO:

1. Gun rights: People are finally realizing that having a tool, and the responsibility that comes with it, are essential to their lives and their freedoms.

2. Money: People are finally realizing that going into debt to keep up with the Kardashians is both insane and dangerous.

3. Race relations: People finally realize that supporting individualism is the best path to equality. Grouping people by race or heritage is both insane and dangerous. If everyone is an individual, and to be judged on their singular merits... we are all free and equal.

4. Womens Rights/Families: People are starting to realize that the "nuclear family" works a hell of a lot better than single-mothers.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:36 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Be the change you wish to see in the world. It's prolly not gonna fix much...but you'll feel shiny

You know, that reminds me of a proverb someone offered me as a child which I really took to heart...
"If you do not KNOW the answer, then you must BE the answer!"
But yanno, there's been at least one positive change in our society I had a nice piece of, so it's always worth it to try, no matter how hopeless it seems to begin with.

Besides, history works in cycles, generally, we've been here before, remember.

And it did get better, for a while.
As our Founding Fathers so clearly noted, every so often we the peons gotta put a boot up the ass of our so-called leaders to keep em honest, ain't pretty when it happens, but it sure beats the alternative.

My only real bitch is how we keep letting em slide, let our better nature allow us to forgive and forget, and that allows them to sleaze back into power over and over again, like a decaying orbit and we never quite get back all the ground we lose each time - comes a time when forgiveness is what enables the bastards... but then, ruthlessness ain't all it's cracked up to be cause beating them is pointless if you BECOME them in the process, neh ?

Mercy and Kindness are better weapons than any physical thing that can be taken or destroyed, Knowledge is power that cannot be stripped so easily, and Love is the only force on earth that multiplies when shared.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:29 PM

DREAMTROVE

Speaking of which, it really bugs me how occupy sucks up to the police. Then the police grab and rape another girl, and then the occupiers get angry for 15 min, and then they start sucking up again.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:43 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Dream,

Your comments need some kind of context or background information.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Wednesday, November 30, 2011 2:01 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Besides, history works in cycles, generally, we've been here before, remember.

Yup. Even if history doesn't exactly repeat, it hums the same tune, and most of the words still rhyme...

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Wednesday, November 30, 2011 2:05 PM

KWICKO

The protesters will remain nonviolent and let the police be the brutal ones, because every blow struck by a cop with his nightstick becomes multiplied back on the police a thousandfold as opinions swing against them.

Every attempt to silence the Occupy movement only gives us a greater voice. Every blow against us gives us strength. Every one of us hauled off to jail brings new recruits.

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Thursday, December 1, 2011 8:07 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

You know, I wasn't aware of any "sucking up to the police" has been done by the various Occupy groups. There have been attempts to work with the police, to liase with them, to come to some kind of compromise, but you'll have to give specifics on "sucking up" for me to respond.

Mike, what's with this "us" bit? Are you one of us? If so, which group do you belong to, and what are yo up to? You can respond via email if you'd prefer. You are certainly one of the 99% we hope to represent, but unless you're actively involved, you're not part of Occupy. No offense intended, I'm just curious and would love to know that at least one other person here, for all the bitching and moaning we always do, has the courage to become involved. Besides me, that is. ;o)

As to your post in general, absolutely. We have "teach ins" to teach people how to deal with this stuff, how to keep yourself safe, what to do if you don't want to be arrested, how to interact with the police, etc., and in our group at least, nonviolence is the ONLY way civil disobedience is to be practiced.

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Thursday, December 1, 2011 8:57 AM

BYTEMITE

This is what I could find about it.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/sexual-assaults-occupy-wall-street-camps/stor
y?id=14873014

Nothing about police perpetrating the acts, but, well, they drag people off to alleys to beat them up... And then there's the recommendation to notify police versus the police not being quick to respond to those calls. I suppose I do find it a little strange to be asking police for help considering the confrontations in recent days.

I suppose I'd also have to see DT's evidence, though I'm not ruling it out at this point.

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Thursday, December 1, 2011 9:03 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I'm also not aware of any Occupy camp which has requested any kind of police protection or any aid from the police. Most of them know the score at this point--especially when medical help has been kept out by the police in numerous places!

The article talks about INFORMING the police (which is legally what they're supposed to do) and COOPERATING with police regarding sexual assaults, but I don't consider any of those as "sucking up" to them.

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Thursday, December 1, 2011 10:35 AM

BYTEMITE

Ultimately whether or not that's "sucking up" depends on whether or not it actually ends up compromising the safety of the victims. I can't say one way or the other at the moment.

I'm not sure why you'd trust police SOP on this kind of thing, though, when they're trying to screw you over in so many other ways. And it's not like you're not already fighting the law.

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Thursday, December 1, 2011 10:51 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

A nonviolent protest movement is not equipped to respond to sexual assault situations.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, December 1, 2011 11:12 AM

BYTEMITE

Perhaps. Again, it depends on whether the police actually DOES respond to the call, and in some places, they haven't been. That gives the movement little recourse BUT to respond to the situation. Or at least to take preventative steps, or remove offenders from their midst if the police won't help.

And a revolution can and should be able to respond to such a situation if it is to be considered a legitimate alternative.

It is up to OWS what they want to be, but it's very difficult to stand up to the hand that's feeding you while you're still dependent on it.

Just throwing stuff out there for people to think about.

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Thursday, December 1, 2011 11:30 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Let me say it again with appropriate emphasis.

A nonviolent protest movement is not equipped to handle sexual assault situations. They have no power to intervene, no power to investigate, no power to seize subjects, no power to judge, and no power to punish.

Occupy has zero alternatives to dealing with sex crimes in its current incarnation. They are absolutely dependent upon the police if any serious crime occurs and they want to deal with it.

How they evolve to deal with it, or fail to do so, will say much about them. I anticipate one of three possibilities. 1) They will continue to rely on the police, just as all nonviolent people do. 2) A caste will rise up amongst them for the purpose of handling the violence that the rest abhor. 3) They will accept violence, and equip themselves to the purpose, at least for defense.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, December 1, 2011 1:01 PM

BYTEMITE

I'm going to say 2, because it's already happened.

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Thursday, December 1, 2011 3:00 PM

FREMDFIRMA

That's kinda the darker side of what cat-herders, aka Protest Marshals DO.

Only again, most of them have refused to commit because they feel OWS doesn't have what it takes, is unwilling to do what it might take, in order to accomplish their objective.

Frankly, conventional protest these days just collects the dissenters in one convenient heap with a pre-loaded bullseye painted on their foreheads so they can be abused in a manner that "teaches a lesson" to anyone thinking of resistance, as well as conveniently identified, placed on a "list" and tracked.

All without accomplishing much other than reinforcing the very notion that with sufficient dismissal, mockery and violence, they can be rendered a non-threat, BECAUSE they are unwilling to defend themselves and their rights with force even when it is warranted.

That right there is why I have refused involvement, because what it says on paper, under the law, about defending oneself from abuses from agents of the state, and what the realities of it are - seem to be very different, thus making "the law" and all that stems from it polite fiction at best, so what VALUE does it have, to play by rules written by people not at all bound by them while you are ?

Of course, there's involvement, and ..err, involvement, and I am seemingly-forbidden by my own people from going down there and offering "helpful advice" - something which kinda pisses me off since I hate that for-your-own-good bullshit from ANYONE, but if I didn't trust their judgement they'd not be in the loop to begin with, and while there are times when opening a can of whoopass is appropriate to the situation I ain't completely convinced this is one of em, nor do I really wish to help perpetuate a situation a lot of those folk are hoping to avoid.
It grates though, never think it doesn't.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, December 1, 2011 3:26 PM

DREAMTROVE

Sorry, Anthony, I'm afraid I posted that to the wrong thread. I was responding to something about the police brutality against occupy, but I don't see it posted here.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, December 2, 2011 5:17 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Anthony, the second choice is most common, tho' it's not a "caste" (not sure what you mean by that). It's volunteers who have chosen that job, and they do the best they can. What Frem said is true, however; their resources for dealing with violence are minimal, which makes it more difficult.

The fact that I know in the Oakland mess at least one of the OWS security people was pulled into an alley and severely beaten by the cops indicates to me that might not be uncommon, and given their actions and attitude, I don't think too many rely on them.

Added to that is the fact that in some places (Oakland included), the police KEPT resources from reaching the encampment; they wouldn't allow EMTs, fire or medical personnel to go into the camp when they were needed, which is why the camp set up their own medical station (with volunteer doctors and nurses and donated medical supplies).

A violent element will always seek out people with minimal police protection, so given the police are not helping and actually keeping help from being given, it's the perfect place for outsiders to come in and create violence. They know there will be no follow-throug once they leave the camp.

Additionally, violence gives TPTB a perfect excuse to break up the camp, so it's quite possible some of the police inaction (and hinderance) isn't motivated by a wish to use the excuse to go after the OWS campers.

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