REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

9/11 changed America's attitude toward religion

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Friday, April 7, 2023 03:51
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Sunday, September 4, 2011 6:25 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

The re-emergence of "Christo-Americanism":

"One of the sobering lessons of the decade since 9/11 is that religious prejudice is not always rooted in raw ignorance," says Thomas Kidd, author of "American Christians and Islam."

"Some of America's most vociferous anti-Muslim critics know quite a lot about Muslim beliefs, but they often use their knowledge to construe Islam in the worst possible light."

Many of these public attacks against Islam were encouraged by conservative Christian leaders such as Rev. Franklin Graham, the son of Rev. Billy Graham, who called Islam "wicked," and Pat Robertson, the Christian broadcaster who declared that "Islam is not a religion," says Charles Kammer, a religion professor at Wooster College in Ohio.

Kammer says Graham and Robertson helped fuel the rise of "Christo-Americanism," a distorted form of Christianity that blends nationalism, conservative paranoia and Christian rhetoric.

"A segment of the religious community in the United States has been at the forefront of an anti-Islamic crusade that has helped to generate a climate of hatred and distrust toward all Muslims," says Kammer.

Other strains of Christo-Americanism have swept through America before.

After 9/11, some political leaders said terrorists hated the U.S. because of "our freedoms." But America's record on granting those freedoms to its citizens is mixed, says Lynn Neal, co-editor of the book, "Religious Intolerance in America."

In the 19th century, the U.S government passed numerous laws preventing Native American tribes from practicing their religion. Mormons were persecuted. Roman Catholics were once described as disloyal, sexual deviants, Neal says.

"Religious intolerance is not a new feature of the American landscape. Despite being the most religiously diverse nation on earth, despite having a first amendment that protects religious rights...we as a nation and as citizens have often failed to live up to those ideas." http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/03/four-ways-911-changed-america
s-attitude-toward-religion/?hpt=hp_c2

I've never heard the term "Christo-Americanism", but it is an apt term, to me, of what's been happening in America since 9/11.

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Sunday, September 4, 2011 6:31 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:



"Some of America's most vociferous anti-Muslim critics know quite a
lot about Muslim beliefs, but they often use their knowledge to
construe Islam in the worst possible light."



I think the radical jihadists do a fine enough job of that on their own.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, September 4, 2011 6:36 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:



"Some of America's most vociferous anti-Muslim critics know quite a
lot about Muslim beliefs, but they often use their knowledge to
construe Islam in the worst possible light."



I think the radical jihadists do a fine enough job of that on their own.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



Hello,

I can't argue with this. The radicals of every religion are poor representatives of the whole. They foster perceptions of the religion that focus on twisted extremes of behavior based on selected passages and interpretations.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Sunday, September 4, 2011 2:55 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


9/11 changed a lot of things about the US, or so it looks from the other side of the world. A hardening of attitudes towards other nations and religions, a tolerance of torture and imprisonment without trial or representation.

I used to wonder what Osama's endgame was re 9/11, it seemed such a far fetched plot I can almost understand the conspiracy theory. But sometimes I think the jihadists one. America seems hell bent on tearing itself apart from the inside and bankrupting itself with its pointless wars against terror. Maybe OSama won?

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Sunday, September 4, 2011 3:16 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Well, Osama basically got everything he wanted. The Bush administration saw to that before they stopped looking for him and disbanded the Bin Laden Unit that was tasked with hunting him down.

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Sunday, September 4, 2011 4:48 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

The radicals of every religion are poor representatives of the whole. They foster perceptions of the religion that focus on twisted extremes of behavior based on selected passages and interpretations.

--Anthony



Uh huh. Nice sentiment. But only ONE religion's radicals blow up centuries old statues and fly planes into very tall buildings, all in the name of their god™.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, September 4, 2011 4:53 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"But only ONE religion's radicals blow up centuries old statues and fly planes into very tall buildings, all in the name of their god™."

Yes, the mainstream xtian US chooses to 'bomb people back into the stone age' from the air by the tens and hundreds of thousands, which makes us better.


Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Sunday, September 4, 2011 5:08 PM

DREAMTROVE


Christianity has been on the rise for a long time. Waco was the govt. out of control trying to kill that rise, perhaps because they were afraid of it. I remember being approached by the new Christians in the 1980s, and '90s, repeatedly. It's because of the obvious failure of secular society.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Sunday, September 4, 2011 5:15 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"But only ONE religion's radicals blow up centuries old statues and fly planes into very tall buildings, all in the name of their god™."

Yes, the mainstream xtian US chooses to 'bomb people back into the stone age' from the air by the tens and hundreds of thousands, which makes us better.



No they don't. Our military isn't under any direction or influence by any one religion, and there's no intent to engage our enemy on behalf of Jesus Christ or any other fictional character.

Where do you even come up w/ such nonsense ?


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, September 4, 2011 5:21 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"But only ONE religion's radicals blow up centuries old statues and fly planes into very tall buildings, all in the name of their god™."

Yes, the mainstream xtian US chooses to 'bomb people back into the stone age' from the air by the tens and hundreds of thousands, which makes us better.



No they don't. Our military isn't under any direction or influence by any one religion, and there's no intent to engage our enemy on behalf of Jesus Christ or any other fictional character.

Where do you even come up w/ such nonsense ?


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "




Hello,

I wish I could agree, but when I tune into my local country music station (some very nice music there. Tells stories. I like that.) I often hear 'patriotic' songs that focus on the themes of Retribution in War. These, alongside inspirational songs thanking God or praising him.

I can't help but think there is a common audience to both viewpoints.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Sunday, September 4, 2011 5:23 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The religious in the US assume moral justification for war. If they didn't they'd have to be against it.


Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Sunday, September 4, 2011 5:33 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Yeah, and your point ? Country music writers can write what ever the hell they want. So what ? It's their interpretation of what's going on in the world, something they seem to think is worth singing about, and which they can find an audience.

Has nothing to do w/ the reasons we responded to being attacked on 9/11.

I swear, some folks literally aren't happy unless they're arguing, and will find a reason, out of thin air, if need be.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, September 4, 2011 6:06 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Oh let's see - we invaded a country to get bin Laden who was offered to be turned over to the ICC, but that wasn't good enuf - WE wanted him 'dead or alive', dropped that as being 'not important' after a few months and with no bin Laden, turned to Iraq and killed a bunch of people on a pretext, then went back to killing in Afghanistan AND Pakistan, all while pretending what we were doing was not barbaric (watch that video) and that we were somehow morally justified. The US is a pit of irrational religious self-righteousness coupled with greed and hate, and looking at the jihadists I see - us. Except they only killed a few thousand. We're much more efficient.




Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Sunday, September 4, 2011 6:21 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

The US is a pit of irrational religious self-righteousness coupled with greed and hate, and looking at the jihadists I see - us. Except they only killed a few thousand. We're much more efficient.


You're one mixed up human being.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, September 4, 2011 6:35 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Thanks for the laugh! And thanks for being such a good example!


Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Sunday, September 4, 2011 8:21 PM

DMAANLILEILTT


What? You'd rather a theocracy?

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

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Sunday, September 4, 2011 10:08 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


I, Jewish Psychopath:



part 1 of...

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Monday, September 5, 2011 2:37 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

9/11 changed a lot of things about the US, or so it looks from the other side of the world. A hardening of attitudes towards other nations and religions, a tolerance of torture and imprisonment without trial or representation.
Ouch. But yes, our GOVERNMENT reflects this, and a number of the population. But they're not the majority by far, just noisier.

Nonetheless, your point is well taken. And yes, I seem to remember two of their goals were:
Quote:

engage the U.S. in a long war of attrition

The U.S. economy will finally collapse under the strain of too many engagements in too many places, making the world wide economic system which is depended by the U.S. also collapse leading to global political instability

I'd say they're doing pretty damned good, wouldn't you? We're definitely tearing ourselves apart from inside, and the world is following nicely.

DT,
Quote:

Christianity has been on the rise for a long time
Do you mean on the rise in power, or on the rise in numbers? If the first, I agree. If the second, I posted before how there are fewer and fewer self-identified "Christians" than ever before, and the number has been going down for a long time now.
Quote:

The religious in the US assume moral justification for war. If they didn't they'd have to be against it.
Good point, Kiki. I think your other post, however, is more representative of SOME Americans, but by far not the majority; again, they're louder and more visible, so I would say more fervent perhaps than they used to be, but they're not all of us.

I gotta give Raptor credit; the way he pushes everyone's buttons and gets you to respond to him is very effective. Which is a shame.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Monday, September 5, 2011 2:48 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Niki -

I'm not 'pushing buttons', in the least. I'm giving direct, honest replies, with out any hyperbole or rhetoric I see from the other side.

And which of the loud minority group are you attempting to put me into , so that we're clear ? The Religious Right ? I'm an atheist, dearie.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, September 5, 2011 4:46 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


No, Rappy - you're a christian apologist, a willing enabler of the exact same Taliban tactics you claim to be against.

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Monday, September 5, 2011 5:31 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I think he is an atheist. He's said so many times.

Which proves there's more than one mental path to his end.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Monday, September 5, 2011 5:43 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


When I say he is a christian apologist, I'm not claiming he's christian. He's an APOLOGIST for their cause, a willing enabler if not an outright follower. He won't put on a uniform and join the military, but will claim that any military action undertaken by the U.S. is justified and morally right. Similarly, while Rappy might not actually be a fundie christian himself, he ardently supports the cause of christian dominionists because he feels that the ends ALWAYS justify the means. Much as jihadists can justify killing "infidels" because they aren't Muslims, and are therefore less than human, Rappy justifies torturing and killing others simply for not being Americans, and therefore not having any human rights.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, September 5, 2011 5:45 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Niki -

I'm not 'pushing buttons', in the least. I'm giving direct, honest replies, with out any hyperbole or rhetoric I see from the other side.



You can't make a claim without using hyperbole. You've claimed that ONLY ONE religion destroys artworks, you've claimed that ONLY ONE religion is killing in the name of its god, and you've repeatedly claimed that ONLY ONE religion has a history of doing so. And you've been proven time and again to be 100% wrong in your claims.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, September 5, 2011 6:03 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"I think he is an atheist. He's said so many times."

There are different forms of true believers. Some believe in a god or gods, some like Rap believe in greed and social Darwinism, some believe in UFOs, etc It's about a belief organizing your thinking such that you need to deny reality to maintain your belief.


Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Monday, September 5, 2011 7:33 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Nah, not an apologist, it's just that he's just so terrified of Muslims he can't see beyond that. To admit anything bad about the military or Christianity is to say maybe Muslims aren't all that scary--you know, like actual human beings, and that won't do. It's got to be either/or, black/white, for him to feel safe(r), and he's desperate to get everyone else to believe as he does, to make him feel right(er).


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Monday, September 5, 2011 8:32 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
he's desperate to get everyone else to believe as he does, to make him feel right(er).


No, he's desperate to get everyone to talk either to him or about him, to get every thread focused solely on his input. And I see the "all Muslims = bad" BS is still accomplishing this just fine.

Remember when we managed to ignore Rappy en mass for an extended time? He started doing all he could to get the attention back, making up obvious sockpuppets and stuff. Anything to get the focus back on himself. It was actually pretty funny, like watching a first grader slapping himself or something, trying to get his teacher's attention.

So, just an observation from someone who hasn't been around for awhile, because it seems to have been forgotten: Rappy doesn't give a shit about any of these topics. He's not posting real opinions as much as groveling for attention. And look, he got it. The thread quickly became another long, pointless discussion of the Rappy brain, or lack thereof. And I'm sure he's at home smoking a cigarette and cleaning himself off with tissues right now.

It makes for boring, repetitive threads, and it's a large part of why I quit hanging out here. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

This will be my only post about Rappy. Done.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Monday, September 5, 2011 8:35 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Niki,

What's the purpose of your attempt to minimize, marginalize what happened on 9/11, and what the islamic jihadists are doing ? You think that trying to paint those who aren't too fond of what's taken place - 9/11, Beslan, Bali, London, Madrid, in the name of allah...., are just 'scared',and simply don't LIKE muslims?

Don't strain your neck too hard, as you're shoving your head into the deep dark places, as you ignore what's going on. You're more afraid of what others may THINK of you than admitting the truth.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, September 5, 2011 10:19 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
he's desperate to get everyone else to believe as he does, to make him feel right(er).


Actually... no.

See, ain't about us - the person he is most desperately trying to convince, who he NEEDS to convince... is himself.

Otherwise he'd have to admit to things his consciousness couldn't mentally handle because he's long since crossed the moral event horizon and as such is unable to face that reality.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, September 5, 2011 10:35 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

No, he's desperate to get everyone to talk either to him or about him, to get every thread focused solely on his input. ...

Remember when we managed to ignore Rappy en mass for an extended time? He started doing all he could to get the attention back, making up obvious sockpuppets and stuff. ... It was actually pretty funny, like watching a first grader slapping himself or something, trying to get his teacher's attention.

... He's not posting real opinions as much as groveling for attention. And look, he got it. The thread quickly became another long, pointless discussion of the Rappy brain, or lack thereof. And I'm sure he's at home smoking a cigarette and cleaning himself off with tissues right now.

It makes for boring, repetitive threads ...

Your post was WAAAaaayyy to funny.

I admit, I like to try and pick apart 'what is wrong with Rappy' (and by extension the other 25 - 30% of people for whom facts backfire), but that's just me. I can see how it would be boring to others.


Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Monday, September 5, 2011 10:50 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I admit, I like to try and pick apart 'what is wrong with Rappy' (and by extension the other 25 - 30% of people for whom facts backfire), but that's just me. I can see how it would be boring to others.


OK, damn, a second post...

I was also entertained by it, when I thought Rappy was a real person. I doubt that now. I think he (if it is a he) might be completely fabricated.

My ex, back in the early days of internet chats, used to hang out in a religious group and every once in a while post something that got them all batshit. Now, he was an atheist, but really didn't care one way or another about their debates. He just liked the feeling of power.

I'm just saying, it sounds a lot like our Rappy. In fact, he might *be* my ex... yeek LOL!

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Monday, September 5, 2011 10:50 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Gawd, Mal4, I wish I'd been there then! I've suggested doing so a number of times, to no avail. I try to ignore him as much as possible, and if others did too, it would be easier. As it is, it's just easier to mock him or clarifies his lies. You know, I've said over and over again pretty much what you did, that he's here just to push buttons by saying outlandish things to get attention. You're right, and I'll try to be more like you...again. It's just hard, when he and Mike threadjack so many threads into their own private arguments.

Puleeeeze don't leave again, or at least not until you're totally disgusted (if possible), I miss your voice so much and we need all the sane adults we can get!

Eta: after reading your most recent post: "It is EXACTLY our Raptor!", as I've been saying all along.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Monday, September 5, 2011 11:17 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
It's just hard, when he and Mike threadjack so many threads into their own private arguments.

I too have enjoyed lurking these in the past, but I only read Mike's replies. To use the art term: it's like seeing the negative space around Rappy. Interesting.

(To share an out-there conspiracy theory - I've wondered if Mike is inventing Rappy just to make it so easy for him (Mike) to look good in an argument... )

ETA: Mike, if you're checking in here - I hope those fires aren't anywhere near you!

Quote:

Puleeeeze don't leave again, or at least not until you're totally disgusted (if possible), I miss your voice so much and we need all the sane adults we can get!
Thank you! School is starting up so I'm going to busy soon and likely won't post much, but I'll check in when I can. A lot of interesting info comes out of this place.


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Monday, September 5, 2011 11:49 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Indeed, it endlessly amuses me to envision this place as combination debate forum/mosh pit, where you HAVE to be able to argue your point, as opposed to places where you can wheedle a sympathetic mod to silence opposition.

I *treasure* this place for that, flaws and all.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, September 5, 2011 5:21 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Been a mite busy lately. When I saw the title I thought this had the potential for some very interesting discussion. Maybe it still does...

I've no data backing up what I'm about to say, just casual observation, but I think Raptor is a prime example of how 9/11 has changed how we view atheism. The arrogant stance that he is the only one who sees things rationally and others must be deluding themselves because, after all, they have plenty of practice believing in 'fairy tales.' Left or right, they do often come off as authoritarian.

But then again, this is just casual observation, so the extremes are likely all that stands out to catch our attention. Perhaps extremsim is simply on the rise and both 9/11 and 'Christo-Americanism' are symptoms of a larger problem spanding many ideaologies.




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Monday, September 5, 2011 10:53 PM

FREMDFIRMA


I'd agree with that, remember even Atheism has its extremists, heaven knows Anarchism does, to my everlasting ire...

And fear tends to bring them to the fore, right now we live in a world of fearful people, anything from downright undeniable threats in the case of the muslim extremists who we're trying to bomb into oblivion - who quite rightly fear we're trying to exterminate them, to pissants terrified that if any option BUT their theology/philsophy even exists, they'll be unable to force people into it - all whipped up by a media that makes it's money off fearmongering and sensationalism.

My answer to most of it though ?

Apathy.

Most of the crap folks are trying to scare me with, only leaves me concerned about the folks trying to do so, and what *their* motivations and intentions are.

Funny addendum to that, tonite while doing rounds a pinecone fell off a tree and landed near me, and I reflexively looked in the OTHER direction first, then quickly back to where it landed - automatically suspecting the "obvious" is my NATURE, it seems.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, September 6, 2011 9:17 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
OK, damn, a second post...

I was also entertained by it, when I thought Rappy was a real person. I doubt that now. I think he (if it is a he) might be completely fabricated.

My ex, back in the early days of internet chats, used to hang out in a religious group and every once in a while post something that got them all batshit. Now, he was an atheist, but really didn't care one way or another about their debates. He just liked the feeling of power.

I'm just saying, it sounds a lot like our Rappy. In fact, he might *be* my ex... yeek LOL!





I'm real alright, I am a 'he', and thankfully am NOT your ex.



" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, September 6, 2011 11:09 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Excellent point, Happy:
Quote:

Perhaps extremsim is simply on the rise and both 9/11 and 'Christo-Americanism' are symptoms of a larger problem spanding many ideaologies.
It's funny, Frem, when I read that my first thought was "That makes sense. I think 9/11 scared the whole damned world, not just us, and fear usually brings extremism to the fore, even those of us who don't normally engage in it". So I agree, I think that may be PART of what makes Raptor who he is, tho' I think he might just possibly be as much of an extremist anyway...maybe it just brings them out of the woodwork because they suddenly have an audience? I dunno.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Tuesday, September 6, 2011 8:15 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Mal4Pres, I'd laugh my arse off if Raptor was indeed your ex and you hadn't known it all this time.
:)

I think Happy is on to something, extremism seems to surface more when scary things happen. I think though that some people go the opposite way and figure they will be apathetic, if the world is falling apart then why should they believe in anything, so they start running around andnot planning ahead or making good choices. Obviously it is the former, rather than the latter, that we are discussing here, but I see both in the world today.



"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, September 7, 2011 4:13 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I remember when the Gulf oil spill happened. I remember how Mr. Raptor was. So giddy, so excited.

THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER!

Counting down the moments. Is it too soon? Is it too soon?

HOW COULD SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPEN?! THE WORLD WILL NEVER BE THE SAME!

Not yet. Not yet. Wait for it... wait for it...

GOD DAMN YOU, OBAMA! YOU HAVE BETRAYED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE! YOU ARE THE WORST PRESIDENT EVER!

****************************

9/11 didn't make Raptor. It just presented an opportunity for a flower to bloom.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, September 7, 2011 4:33 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Anthony -

Huh?


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, September 7, 2011 4:43 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


9/11 -- jews did it. All jewish religions must be overthrown, including the jewish religion of communism/socialism (worship of govt = atheism).

Here's jew Larry Silverstein confessing to personally bombing the World Trade Center for a billion-dollar insurance fraud claim, after getting pre-approval from the jewish insurance company:






Jew Bloomberg bans Christians/preachers/survivors/cops/firemen from 9/11 10th anniversary celebration, allows new mosque, bans rebuild of Christian church bombed on 9/11
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=49489





"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks.”
—Usama bin Laden, CNN, "Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks," September 17, 2001
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/obl_int.htm

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming."
—Dick Cheney, "Interview of the Vice President by Tony Snow", March 29, 2006
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/03/20060329-2.html







Quote:

"Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
-Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, to Jonathan Pollard (convicted CIA traitor and Mossad spy in USA) upon exiting Pollard's jail cell

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that. I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."
-Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001

"By way of deception, we shall wage war."
-Mossad motto

"The FBI has issued a BOLO on suspected terrorists driving a white delivery van from New York City to the Mexican border. The suspects are using Israeli passports. They are armed and dangerous."
-Knox County TN Emergency 911 Dispatch, Sept 11, 2001, 11am EST
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0622-05.htm

"Vehicle possibly related to New York terrorist attack. White, 2000 Chevrolet van with New Jersey registration with 'Urban Moving Systems' sign on back seen at Liberty State Park, Jersey City, NJ, at the time of first impact of jetliner into World Trade Center. Three individuals with van were seen celebrating after initial impact and subsequent explosion. FBI Newark Field Office requests that, if the van is located, hold for prints and detain individuals."
-FBI BOLO ("Be On Lookout"), 11 September 2001, 3:31 p.m., according to Bergen County Police Chief John Schmidig
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/12/WTC_Mysteries3.html
http://columbus.indymedia.org/node/13067

The first terrorist bombers arrested in USA on 9/11/2001 were Israeli Mossad says Fox News. There were over 500 of them, infiltrating US military bases and all police agencies. They were dressed as Muslims, "dancing in happiness" while watching and videotaping the World Trade Center explode. Despite FBI finding residue of explosives in their van, none of the Israelis were tortured to confess at Gitmo, and all were allowed to leave USA by Israeli US DOJ prosecutor Michael Chertoff who was then promoted to director US Dept of Homeland Security.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,34250,00.html
www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20065.htm
http://www.real-debt-elimination.com/real_freedom/Propaganda/employer_
of_the_dancing_israelis.htm


14 Israeli "art students" were living in World Trade Center Towers with forged Construction Passes, connection to Mossad spy ring infiltrating every US military base and police agency in USA, arrested and deported from USA after 9/11/2001:
http://www.rense.com/general87/14_1.htm



Israel police 'arrest Mossad spy on training exercise' planting car bomb
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8377746.stm

"I have already said that I am not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other human beings as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. According to my information, the death toll is much higher than what the U.S. Government has stated. But the Bush Administration does not want the panic to spread. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the U.S. system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive. They can be anyone, from Russia to Israel and from India to Serbia. In the U.S. itself, there are dozens of well-organized and well-equipped groups, which are capable of causing a large-scale destruction. Then you cannot forget the American-Jews, who are annoyed with President Bush ever since the elections in Florida and want to avenge him. This system is totally in the control of the American Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States. It is clear that the American people are themselves the slaves of the Jews and are forced to live according to the principles and laws laid down by them."
-Usama Bin Laden, Ummat magazine, September 28, 2001
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/obl_int.htm

Usama Bin Laden's funeral: Egyptian Paper Al-Wafd, Wednesday, December 26, 2001
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/osama_dead.html

"We have a case of the Jew, a totally different species. The body of a Jewish person is of a totally different quality from the body of members of all other nations of the world. Bodies of the Gentiles are in vain. An even greater difference is in regard to the soul A non-Jewish soul comes from three satanic spheres, while the Jewish soul stems from holiness."
-Rabbi Mendel Schneerson, Lubavitcher friend of George Bush Sr

Israeli Law of Return only allows citizenship for jews
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return

The Life of an American Jew in Racist Marxist Israel Where Christianity Is a Felony
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/israel.htm

"Fuck Obama! White Power! Fuck the niggers! Obama, who even knows if he was born in the United States? We haven't seen his birth certificate yet. I'm a jew, I'm Israel. Obama, I'm gonna teabag your ass and put it on youtube, faggot."
-White jews in Israel, June 2009
video: www.tu.tv/videos/feeling-the-hate-in-jerusalem-on-eve-of
http://radarsite.blogspot.com/2009/06/youth-in-israel-speak-out-about-
obamas.html

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1244371044168&pagename=JPAr
ticle/ShowFull


Semite.
A member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including ARABS.
—Merriam Webster Dictionary

"A 'Semite' is any person living in that area, including Arabs and Christians. It's time we start talking about 'The Other AntiSemitism'. A Semite is not a Jew living in America or Europe."
—Ralph Nader (Arab from Lebannon), C-SPAN, 2003

"The act of terrorizing, or state of being terrorized; a mode of government by terror or intimidation." [jewish communism in communist russia]
-Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)






Hollywood winner as seen on History Channel and Asahi TV in Japan
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5095012753871278980&hl=en
http://September911Surprise.PirateNews.org
www.September911Surprise.com (banned by jew webmasters at Alex Jones' Infowars.net webhosting)

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Wednesday, September 7, 2011 4:49 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:


9/11 -- jews did it. All jewish religions must be overthrown, including the jewish religion of communism/socialism (worship of govt = atheism).



I'm an atheist, and I don't worship govt.


Kinda debunks your entire reply, and reason for being, huh ?




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, September 7, 2011 5:55 AM

BYTEMITE


...I'd like to separate my claim in regards to atheism and anti-government political ideology from AURaptor, if I may.

AURaptor, no offense or nothin', but when I talk about being anti-government, it seems to be very different from how you define being anti-government. So it's best if I represent myself.

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Wednesday, September 7, 2011 8:57 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
...I'd like to separate my claim in regards to atheism and anti-government political ideology from AURaptor, if I may.

AURaptor, no offense or nothin', but when I talk about being anti-government, it seems to be very different from how you define being anti-government. So it's best if I represent myself.



My reply was to PN's comment. This is the 1st time I believe you've even replied to this thread, so I'm a bit lost as to what you're even talking about.

I made no association with or to you, or anything you said. Dunno why you felt the need to add your 2 cents in here, but you have.

Welcome to the thread, I guess.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, September 7, 2011 9:16 AM

BYTEMITE


I do that sometimes.

*Goes back to left field*

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Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:46 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I remember when the Gulf oil spill happened. I remember how Mr. Raptor was. So giddy, so excited.

THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER!

Counting down the moments. Is it too soon? Is it too soon?

HOW COULD SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPEN?! THE WORLD WILL NEVER BE THE SAME!

Not yet. Not yet. Wait for it... wait for it...

GOD DAMN YOU, OBAMA! YOU HAVE BETRAYED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE! YOU ARE THE WORST PRESIDENT EVER!

****************************

9/11 didn't make Raptor. It just presented an opportunity for a flower to bloom.

--Anthony



Indeed.

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 2:35 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

9/11 didn't make Raptor. It just presented an opportunity for a flower to bloom.
That about nails it, Mike; tho' if 9/11 hadn't happened, I'm pretty sure Raptor would find something else to latch onto. Given that you guys have been here longer than I, I'm pretty sure he's been doing the same thing since he got here.

Unfortunately his posts are so predictable, and so full of the same shit, that he's pretty boring now. The bit about us minimizing/ignoring/whatever the threat of Muslim terrorists is a prime example; he doesn't seem to have much imagination when it comes to holding his own, which is a shame. He'd be more interesting, if nothing else, if he didn't keep yapping the same idiocy over and over again.

Ah well, there's one in every group, n'est-ce pas?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, April 7, 2023 3:51 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

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