REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

FUKUSHIMA: All the news that's not fit to hear

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Sunday, June 26, 2011 18:17
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Friday, May 13, 2011 4:16 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Gov’t Official: It is a fact that nuclear fuel melted a hole through Reactor No. 1 (no shit Sherlock)

NILU ends public forecasts as map shows large radiation clouds now over US, Canada (see no evil, hear no evil)
http://enenews.com


Russia Today: Gundersen First to Say Fukushima Worse than Chernobyl
2011-04-26
http://fairewinds.com/




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Friday, May 13, 2011 4:42 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I wonder what the long-term consequences for Japan are.

Do we have a way of predicting that?

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Friday, May 13, 2011 5:06 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


All the nuke plants in TN are now shut down for NRC violations.

I spoke to my neighbor today, an engineer who works for the foreign corporation that runs the local nuke plant. He had no idea his plant was closed by NRC, for diesel generators failing to turn on the cooling pumps...
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event-status/event/2011/
20110504en.html

http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/plant-specific-items/watts-bar.html
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event-status/event/2011/
20110504en.html

http://nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/insp-manual/temp-instruction
s
/

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Friday, May 13, 2011 9:20 AM

DREAMTROVE



Great Wall

http://www.komonews.com/news/national/121775754.html

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, May 13, 2011 9:51 AM

BYTEMITE


Hmm. I'm sure there are radiation clouds, but I'm questioning those numbers. Those are slightly more than double the amounts seen in Germany after Chernobyl, 1000 km away. There should be some amount of diffusivity in air over distance for the amounts of radiation.

What's more, we know that not all of the radiation escaped to air in the Fukushima reactors, as they did in Chernobyl.

Also, those Becquerel levels come less to less than natural background radiation for both species.

You have to factor in the amount of material available and the air diffusivity, and I think the detected high rads in the buildings and countryside around the reactors would have to be much higher to get numbers like that at that distance.


However, Fukushima is almost certainly worse than Chernobyl, as multiple reactors were involved.

That wall story made me tear up a little. It's nice to know that some places weathered the storm.

As for impacts in Japan, it seems to me that it's probably the oceans and the fish they should be most concerned about, though they should maintain a broad excavation zone around the plants.

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Friday, May 13, 2011 9:00 PM

DREAMTROVE



It pays to be prepared, or to listen to the loon predicting doom, and prepare for the off chance that he's right.

Fishes have thousands of children, the limiting factor is food. Ocean species will be far more resilient than humans from something like this. It's the trawling they have to worry about

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, May 14, 2011 4:31 AM

BYTEMITE


Yeah, agreed. The fish are a concern.

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 3:25 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Can't Make This Shit Up: Japan's Latest Proposal To Contain Fukushima's Radioactive Fallout - A Circus Tent
www.zerohedge.com/article/japans-latest-proposal-contain-fukushimas-ra
dioactive-fallout-circus-tent


3rd Fukushima Daiichi plant worker dies wearing hazmat suit (not counting 100s dead by the tsunami flood)
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/third-worker-dies-at-fukushima-n
uclear-plant-2284049.html


All is well, go baraaaack to sleep.

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 5:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


BYTE... you're bent about fluoride (an element with unproven harmful effects at low ppm levels) but not about radioactive contamination... or toothpaste, which contains percent-level fluoride? Hmmm... time to recalibrate your conspiracy-o-meter.

I expect the cesium will get to the west coast in about 2-4 years, carried here by the north Pacific gyre. And since the uranium and plutonium will be around for tens of thousands of years, I wonder what the carrying capacity of the globe is before we get to the fatal concentration for the average human (one microgram per kilogram).

But mostly, I wonder... the radioactive contaminants lost at Fukushima represent only about a ten-thousandth ... or less... of the total possible radioactive contaminants currently extant on the globe in mine tailings, spent and active fuels, warheads, and contaminated materials. What are we going to DO with all that shit? Sit on it for the next 24,0000 years?

The only reason why the US, British, French and Russian governments pushed for nuclear energy (which depends on massive government subsidies to survive, and is a stupid way to boil water to boot) was to create enough plutonium for bombs. Personally, I think we should bury it all in the Marianas trench.

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 5:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Private testing finds high concentration of Plutonium in soil over 30 miles from Fukushima — “Very high radiation that is very different to what the gov’t released”


Highest Yet: 2 Sieverts per hour detected in No. 1 reactor building on May 13 -
At the double-door building entrance. It'll make you sick in ten minutes, and kill you in two hours.

http://enenews.com/

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 5:52 AM

BYTEMITE


Hey, I'm not saying there isn't a conspiracy here. Of course there is. Both governments are lying.

Is it worse than Chernobyl? Yes, because of what's getting in the groundwater, heading out to the ocean, what might be in the air, the density of the population around the site, and the multiple reactors involved.

But in order to get the radiation that is being reported in those linked figures, you'd have to have had multiple events where the entire containment and all available material was completely blown off. I know that we've had some containment breaches and leaks, but my understanding is that a lot of the material is still present on site. And airborne contamination should still show some diffusivity, which in the models and figures shown, it doesn't. Whats more, the numbers SOUND big, but they calculate for both modeled species as less than 0.04 rads.

I'd actually really only expect to see numbers like that at this distance if all six reactors went. Which I admit is still a possibility.

Now, I am concerned for the people of Japan, particularly in the northern regions. So let's focus on them, I think.

EDIT: Oh, and I never said I wasn't concerned about fluoride in toothpaste. I am. That's the reason I was complaining about the dentistry industry and "ingesting poison everyday" on the thread in question.

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 5:56 AM

BYTEMITE


All of this material is heavier than water, so only reaches us if the currents push it enough. And the oceanic current off Japan heading for our coast sinks as well. It wouldn't be on the surface, and very likely a lot of it will settle out.

Similarly, a lot of the airborne stuff should settle out, where it's likely to settle in the Pacific Ocean, and also likely to sink.

Now fish, THAT'S a concern.

Agreed about wanting to get out of the nuclear industry for energy needs, and needing to store the crap we do have. On site doesn't work well. The only reason I've ever said stuff like "don't build in an earthquake zone" is not because I particularly support constructing new nuclear power plants, but rather because I expect people to be short-sighted with or without my input. And if they're going to be short-sighted, may as well point out ways to reduce potential catastrophes.

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 7:32 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


TEPCO admits that nuclear fuel in Unit 1 has burned through the reactor vessel AND the containment vessel:

Quote:

Japan nuclear: Tepco halts Fukushima cooling plan

Japanese engineers have abandoned their latest attempt to stabilise a stricken reactor at the Fukushima nuclear plant.

The plant's operator, Tepco, had intended to cool reactor 1 by filling the containment chamber with water.

But Tepco said melting fuel rods had created a hole in the chamber, allowing 3,000 tonnes of contaminated water to leak into the basement of the reactor building.



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Sunday, May 15, 2011 7:43 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Fukushima I Nuke Plant Reactor 1 Bldg: 2,000 Millisieverts/Hr (2 Sieverts/hr) at Southeast Double Door, 3,000 Tons of Radioactive Water in the Basement
http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/05/fukushima-i-nuke-plant-reactor-1-bl
dg.html


Fukushima I Nuke Plant Didn't Have Doctor on Site When the Worker Collapsed. So, what was that nice narrative yesterday that the worker was taken to the doctor's office on site, when there was no doctor at the office?
http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/05/fukushima-i-nuke-plant-didnt-have.h
tml


More on the Worker's Death: It Took 2 Hours to Get to the Hospital. It took them 35 minutes to cover 20 kilometers, so they did less than 40 km/hour, or 25 miles/hour.
http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/05/more-on-workers-death-it-took-2-hou
rs.html


Wind in Nippon
http://www.weather-report.jp/com/home/kishomap/fusoku/japan.html

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 3:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Unlike Chernobyl, which was quickly contained, Fukushima continues to spew radioactive material, aided and abetted by humans actively flushing it out of the reactors and into the environment. As Dr. Phil might wonder - "WHAT are they THINKing"?

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


TEPCO trying to “prevent re-criticality” at Reactor No. 3 — Temperature soaring in pressure vessel, up over 100°F in 24 hours even after increasing water injection

http://enenews.com/

YIPEE.



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Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


As I understand it, on the one hand they inject water to physically cool the reactors down and keep them from melting, and/ or generating hydrogen and exploding, and/ or physically melting through their containment and hitting the water table. OTOH water moderates neutrons, slowing them down and increasing the likelihood that nuclear fuel will absorb them, become unstable and fission - creating more neutrons and so on.

Since the basic problem is the fissioning of nuclear fuel, creating both the problematic heat and problematic neutrons with their threat of 'criticality' - it seems to me they should be loading up the reactors with boron - as much as possible - in order to reduce the nuclear fuel to its intrinsic rate of nuclear smolder - and keep it there.

What I wonder about is the lack of continuing news coverage. It's not like this is no longer a threat or a story.

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 5:32 PM

BYTEMITE


I donated some money to the relief fund today. I dunno. I guess I felt like saying that. It won't make much difference.

Point about the groundwater discharge to regional water and the ocean being continuous.

I think those figures were supposed to be air dispersion. My understanding was most of the air dispersion would've happened in those explosions that happened early on, unless I missed something and there are more the governments are covering up, which is possible.

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 5:34 PM

HARDWARE


If what other people are describing is true, this is bad, bad, bad. TEPCO went with a boiling water reactor because there was no need for a heavy, expensive pressure vessel such as in a light water reactor. There is no heavy steel and concrete structure to contain the nuclear fuel.

However, the IAEA's update for May 13 has no further indication of re-criticality or other events. It states the units 1-3 are still being cooled, with some anomalous events on unit 1.

I'll wait for more solid evidence before I start buying plastic sheeting and duct tape.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Monday, May 16, 2011 4:33 AM

BYTEMITE


I think what we believe, or not, should be dependent upon the data. If they are pumping nitrogen gas into unit 1 to prevent further hydrogen explosions, then this is serious and we are still in a state of meltdown.

I don't see mention of boron injections in unit 3 except for in Sig's links, which would be an indication of trying to prevent recriticality, but I seem to recall to they were at one point injecting boron, which means recriticality is a possibility. And I've also heard they detected neutron beams recently, which is suspicious.

A wikipedia page on this says that the material has spread out along the reactor bottom so recriticality in "unlikely" but that doesn't explain the radioactive water in the basements.

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Monday, May 16, 2011 5:10 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


It doesn't take a degree in engineering to figure out what's going on. In fact, I sometimes think engineers are so well-trained they CAN'T think outside of whatever box they're in. A little too eager with Yes, massah and not enough WTF???. Anyway, I digress...

We have Three Mile Island and Chernobyl as two points of comparison. TMI's fuel was 50% melted in four hours without coolant. WTF did TEPCO think was happening to the Fukushima fuel after three days? I assumed, right at the start, that the fuel was pretty much at the bottom of all reactors, and that reactor and containment No2 were breached and that water was flowing (at the rate of about 10 tons per hours) straight over naked fuel and into the groundwater.

But I have to say, even I didn't appreciate how much the situation could actively deteriorate from that point. I though Fukushima would reach some kind of equilibrium point sooner... like Chernobyl, where the corium essentially reached the basement, spread out, and stopped melting its way down shortly after the accident.

Well, the fuel in this scenario just keeps ablating its way down. All those reactor pressure and temperature readings were so much ghafla... the fuel prolly wasn't even in the reactors anymore.

It seems the best "containment" is a large flat surface, over which the corium can spread and stop fissioning.

Yeeesh. What a nightmare.

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Monday, May 16, 2011 7:41 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Pay no attention - this is just me puzzling my way through it ...

As I understand it - you can't stop nuclear fuel from fissioning. It has a constant internal rate of decay that generates both heat and neutrons. You can speed it up, however, by allowing the neutrons generated from fissioning to be absorbed by the nuclear fuel, destabilizing it and causing more fissioning than would normally occur, a chain reaction. Nuclear reactors work by keeping that chain reaction under control - not too little and not too much.

The problem with Fukushima is that the fuel has melted into a concentrated spot (the bottom of the vessel is bowl-shaped, causing it to pool in a very small spot) bringing the fuel together in an radiologically uncontrolled and thermally unchecked way.

When it is concentrated at the bottom with no neutron moderation, the fuel can reach 'prompt criticality' - where neutrons released directly from a fission event create more fission events.

And without thermal cooling, the fuel can potentially melt through concrete and rock, down to the water table, creating a massive dirty bomb out of each reactor.

Until they get the fuel to spread out and cool, there will be a risk of non-nuclear explosion. And until they can find a way to either absorb neutrons or to spread the fuel out, there will be a risk of criticality events.

So that's why the reactors are still unstable - there is still concentrated molten fuel and there are no permanent emplacements of neutron poisons.

In addition, there is already massive environmental contamination which is ongoing.


One more thing I'm puzzled about, besides the lack of news - Japan is STILL handling this like a family of alcoholics. As long as the neighbors don't intrude, everything's OK.

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Monday, May 16, 2011 8:23 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Great Wall

http://www.komonews.com/news/national/121775754.html






Yes. This is precisely the kind of thing that governments can do, that private corporations really CAN'T do, because there's no "profit" from it - at least not until everybody else gets washed away.

By the way, a couple of Alabama reactors were red-flagged as well, for stuck valves. They didn't get hit by the tornadoes, but an inspection supposedly revealed that if they HAD suffered a power outage, the emergency cooling system would not have worked, because several valves were stuck.

But it could never happen here...

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, May 16, 2011 7:23 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Yeah, its really rutted up and scary too. It pisses me off that the news doesn't even talk about it anymore, I guess our society has such a short attention span, and the news people encourage that, they figure that we're not interested anymore. I'm hoping that the earth can compensate somehow, that things will work out or that God will make us a miracle, Japan and the world sure need one right about now if its as bad as they say it is.

The fish thing is worrisome indeed since I'm a big fish eater, yum.

Kiki, I know what you mean, what few people are willing to say out loud is that this attitude of insularity is one of the Japanese culture's worst traits, they think that if they don't talk about it and try really hard to keep it a secret then it will go away. They absolutely hate asking other people for help and avoid it at nearly all costs, at least that's what it looks like is happening here. The question is: If they did tell us or someone else how bad it is and ask for help with it, what could we do to help them?

As I've said before this situation has made me very opposed to nuclear power, the sinister force which we can't control.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, May 17, 2011 5:48 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Meltdowns also likely occurred at No. 2, No. 3 reactors of Fukushima plant

2011/05/18

Quote:

Data shows meltdowns occurred at the No. 2 and No. 3 reactors of the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, creating huge problems for the plant operator that had presented a more optimistic scenario.

And like the No. 1 reactor, the melted fuel appears to have created holes in the pressure vessel of the No. 3 reactor, according to the data of Tokyo Electric Power Co. released May 16.

Goshi Hosono, special adviser to Prime Minister Naoto Kan, acknowledged the likelihood of meltdowns at the No. 2 and No. 3 reactors.

"We have to assume that meltdowns have taken place," Hosono said at a news conference May 16.

Haruki Madarame, chairman of the Nuclear Safety Commission, said in a separate news conference the same day that the meltdowns should not come as a surprise.


Quote:

"When highly contaminated water was found at the No. 2 reactor building in late March, we recognized that a meltdown had taken place. So I informed the government," he said. "As for No. 1 and No. 3 reactors, we recognized that, given the processes that led to the accidents there, the same thing had occurred."

Immediately after the crisis erupted at the nuclear power plant in March, experts pointed out that meltdowns likely occurred at all three reactors. But TEPCO's measures to contain the crisis have been based on the assumption of lighter damage to the reactor cores. TEPCO had said it believed that only a portion of the nuclear fuel rods had melted. Now, it appears that all parts of the fuel rods have melted....

According to the data, the pressure in the pressure vessel of the No. 2 reactor dropped at 6:43 p.m. on March 15. A similar drop in pressure also took place at the No. 3 reactor at 11:50 p.m. on March 16. Those declines were apparently the result of holes made in the pressure vessels.

... Tanabe criticized TEPCO's recovery efforts and measures that were taken based on a situation that was much less serious than reality. He said TEPCO's optimistic scenario led three workers to be exposed to highly radioactive water on March 24 and prevented measures to keep contaminated water from leaking into the sea through a trench at the No. 2 reactor building.

"In resolving serious accidents like those (at the Fukushima plant), it is a cardinal rule to work out recovery measures based on the worst possible situation," he said.


www.asahi.com/english/TKY201105170428.html
Like global climate change?

A friend says
Quote:

I’d expect that by next Friday there will be roughly 1-3 more on-site deaths. (in the elderly and young). By the following week,with the data that I have secured: “I feel”, its very safe to say Tepco will be forced to ask the Japanese pm to abandon the site. I also feel they will be denied the option.

And in roughly 3-8 weeks the entire TEPCO force will be highly contaminated, and healths will deteriorate so dramatically, the Japanese government will be forced to extend a plea for international intervention. The situation is quite alarming indeed. To make matters worse, a china syndrome is absolutely damaging to restoration efforts. Once the site is leaking radiation to the level of 5 sieverts. (which indeed it has the potential, and likely will). All BETS ARE OFF. that is instant death. gas mask or not… Jumpsuit etc. Game over. Its also worth noting that the recent admission of TEPCO sealing these facilities in any way is a myth, and a fluke. By creating any kind of a containment on these reactors, the radiation presently being released would accumulate past the point of human life's integrity. The situation is truly out of control. There is no viable solution at this time.


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Thursday, May 19, 2011 5:47 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




Can you spell HAARP?

Quote:

Interview with Dr. Paul Kossey, USAF HAARP program director -- interview connection terminated by ISP for reasons of National Security after Dr Kossey said "We set the atmosphere on fire..."
http://www.infowars.com/flashback-alex-jones-classic-interview-with-dr
-paul-kossey-haarp-program-directorate
/
www.haarp.alaska.edu
www.haarp.net



What happens when you pump billions of watts into the atmosphere:



Atmosphere Above Japan Heated Rapidly Before M9 Earthquake

Geologists have long puzzled over anecdotal reports of strange atmospheric phenomena in the days before big earthquakes. But good data to back up these stories has been hard to come by.

In recent years, however, various teams have set up atmospheric monitoring stations in earthquake zones and a number of satellites are capable of sending back data about the state of the upper atmosphere and the ionosphere during an earthquake.

Last year, we looked at some fascinating data from the DEMETER spacecraft showing a significant increase in ultra-low frequency radio signals before the magnitude 7 Haiti earthquake in January 2010

Today, Dimitar Ouzounov at the NASA Goddard Space Flight Centre in Maryland and a few buddies present the data from the Great Tohoku earthquake which devastated Japan on 11 March. Their results, although preliminary, are eye-opening.

They say that before the M9 earthquake, the total electron content of the ionosphere increased dramatically over the epicentre, reaching a maximum three days before the quake struck.

At the same time, satellite observations showed a big increase in infrared emissions from above the epicentre, which peaked in the hours before the quake. In other words, the atmosphere was heating up.

These kinds of observations are consistent with an idea called the Lithosphere-Atmosphere-Ionosphere Coupling mechanism. The thinking is that in the days before an earthquake, the great stresses in a fault as it is about to give cause the releases large amounts of radon.

The radioactivity from this gas ionises the air on a large scale and this has a number of knock on effects. Since water molecules are attracted to ions in the air, ionisation triggers the large scale condensation of water.

But the process of condensation also releases heat and it is this that causes infrared emissions. "Our first results show that on March 8th a rapid increase of emitted infrared radiation was observed from the satellite data," say Ouzounov and co.

These emissions go on to effect the ionosphere and its total electron content.

It certainly makes sense that the lithosphere, atmosphere and ionosphere are coupled in a way that can be measured when one of them is perturbed. The question is to what extent the new evidence backs up this idea.

The Japan earthquake is the largest to have struck the island in modern times and will certainly turn out to be among the best studied. If good evidence of this relationship doesn't emerge from this data, other opportunities will be few and far between.

Ref: arxiv.org/abs/1105.2841: Atmosphere-Ionosphere Response to the M9 Tohoku Earthquake Revealed by Joined Satellite and Ground Observations. Preliminary Results.

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/26773/?p1=Blogs

Quote:

Secret Weather Weapons can kill millions, warns top Russian politician

Saying that the American government in Washington DC had “no future” and would “collapse,” Zhirinovsky cited Russia’s supremacy in space and stated that the country had, “Lots of money, resources, and new weapons that no one knows about.”

“With them we will destroy any part of the planet within 15 minutes,” he sensationally warned.

“Not an explosion, not a ray burst, not some kind of laser, not lightning, but a quiet and peaceful weapon,” added Zhirinovsky, warning that “whole continents will be put to sleep forever” and that “120 million will die” if anyone interfered with Russia’s claim on the Kuril Islands, which are the subject of a territorial dispute with Japan.

The female presenter of the news program smirked as he made the comments, but Zhirinovsky’s manner was far from jovial.

Zhirinovsky made reference to the recent tsunami in Japan, suggesting that the “new weapons” to which he refers are related to weather control technology, which has been intensely studied by both the U.S. and Russia since the 1950′s and is commonly used today.

http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Inte
rnational/18-May-2011/Secret-Weather-Weapons-can-kill-millions-warns-top-Russian-politician



Fukushima Nuclear Reactor Status Archive
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=11&t=47831




Billions of watts by HAARP in Alaska


Jap Radiation tests lacking / Fukushima nuclear plant workers unsure of internal exposure levels. While a normal internal radiation level would range from several hundred cpm to 1,000 cpm, he was told his level was 30,000 cpm. Although the masks worn by workers are supposed to be changed every three hours, he was told by a management company that he did not have to change his if there was no radioactive contamination. He therefore used a single mask for five to six hours. He ate in a building that houses an emergency headquarters and accommodates plant workers. At the end of April, he was notified that the building was also radiation-contaminated. "I've probably taken in radioactivity while eating," he said.
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110518006065.htm

TEPCO Releases Photos of Tsunami Waters Around its Plant
www.ibtimes.com/articles/148344/20110519/tokyo-electric-power-company-
tepco-tsunami-japan-earthquake-march-11-nuclear-plant-crisis-economy.htm



Fukushima nuke plant at moment of tsunami


Fukushima nuke plant at moment of tsunami


Fukushima nuke plant at moment of tsunami

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Thursday, May 19, 2011 8:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Good pix

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Thursday, May 19, 2011 9:09 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Good pix



Yes, the idiocracy of human stupidity is amazing...building nuke plants below the waterline on earthquake fault lines without backup power nor disaster plans.

I suspect the nuke industry is permanently decapitated. TN nukes plants are still shut down since Fukushima.

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Thursday, May 19, 2011 9:39 PM

BYTEMITE


Your first assessment months ago about the meaning of the less of pressure readings was very well explained. I've figured that you were right and that the containment vessels had melted through back then.

Amazing it takes almost two months for the Japanese and US governments to admit what was painfully obvious.

Idiots in Utah are still talking about building a plant over the Wasatch fault.

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Saturday, May 21, 2011 4:13 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Japanese superquake moved ocean floor 200 feet sideways and 10 feet up - and new data shows region is under more strain
www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1389247/Japan-earthquake-Ocean
-floor-moved-79-feet-sideways.html

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Sunday, May 22, 2011 4:55 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Corium corium, who's got the corium?


Hubby and I have been trying to figure out where the corium is, and what is likely to happen as a result. Worst possible case is that the corium is sitting someplace dry, at roughly 2200 deg. A sudden drop into water will create a steam explosion which will shoot radioactive particles high into the atmo. Alas, western USA is immediately downwind. But the fun will spread across the entire northern hemisphere soon enough.

A fuel-load's worth of corium has enough energy to turn 21,000 liters of water into steam every hour, just from decay heat (roughly 2% of normal operating power output, which is 784 MW for Nos 3 through 4, less for No 1). Reactor No 2 is very steamy and hot inside... so at least PART of the corium is in water, which is a good thing I guess. But the air inside Reactor Nos 1 & 3 is dry and hot.

If the reactors are holed... and apparently they are... and the basements are full of water... and it seems they are... then the corium must be someplace else. All I can figure is that it is on the bottom of the drywell. But with all that water-pumping going on, even the drywell should have water in it.

Ideas?

Anyway, I think once people run their minds to the end of the Fukushima conundrum they will be frightened. There is, as far as I can tell, no happy ending to this story. If the Japanese keep screwing around with these things, I suspect there will be another hydrogen or steam explosion (or two or three) and significant northern hemisphere radioactive air contamination. That's in addition to the crap that's in the ocean already, and all over northern Japan.

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Sunday, May 22, 2011 7:10 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


This is an hour long but full of facts and insight.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2011/03/a_is_for_atom.html

I watched it twice. It is an excellent history of the false promises and hidden test results of nuclear power. It would be impossible to synopsize it for you, but I have to say that I strongly disagree with the "moral of the story", which is that the use of science and the direction of technology should be a "moral" decision, not a technological or economic one.

The problem is that the building of nuclear power was a moral decision. Nuclear power didn't make sense in dollars-and-cents. But it made sense militarily, politically and ideologically... proof of superiority of one economic system over another, and those decisions... the leaders we follow, the economic systems we choose, the wars we wage, the choice to enter a senseless competition... are at heart moral decisions.

The thing that stood out in this film was how scientists and engineers... people who are supposedly at the interface of society and the "real world"... so often caved in to, or were lured on by, social pressure. What I got out of this is that as a species we usually set aside inarguable fact in deference to TPTB; how our response to hierarchy overcomes our best judgment.

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Monday, May 23, 2011 1:11 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Corium, corium, who's got the corium?
---------

Radiation At Reactor No 1 Syrockets, Now at Over 200 Sieverts per Hour

http://enenews.com/radiation-at-reactor-no-1-skyrockets-now-over-200-s
ieverts-per-hour


Measured at (in?) the suppression chamber (torus).


--------------
Wherever the corium "was", it is NOW clearly out of the pressurized reactor vessel (PRV) and into the containment. It looks to me like the bottom of the PRV finally gave way and dropped. 10 Sieverts accumulated dose will kill you. You MIGHT be able to work in that area for roughly 1 minute and survive. This is Chernobyl-level radiation, received while looking straight into the eye of the dragon.

It's too hot to work there now. All those are filters and plans for peeps to work in Reactor Bldg No. 1? Sheer fantasy.

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Monday, May 23, 2011 5:46 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


HARDWARE:

Your previous IAEA was informed in late March that a full meltdown had probably occurred,

Quote:

A meltdown occurred at one of the reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Plant three and a half hours after its cooling system started malfunctioning, according to the result of a simulation using "severe accident" analyzing software developed by the Idaho National Laboratory.

Chris Allison, who had actually developed the analysis and simulation software, reported the result to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) in late March. It was only May 15 when Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) admitted for the first time that a meltdown had occurred at the No. 1 reactor at the Fukushima nuclear plant.

According to Allison's report obtained by the Mainichi, the simulation was based on basic data on light-water nuclear reactors at the Laguna Verde Nuclear Power Plant in Mexico that are about the same size as that of the No. 1, 2, and 3 reactors in Fukushima.



Of course, they chose to continue posting happy-news from Tepco.

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Monday, May 23, 2011 7:22 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Metldown confirmed at two other reactors

Quote:

Explaining the timing of the announcement, a Tepco official told a news conference that the utility had been gradually retrieving data from the plant since early May, and had analysed it before reaching a conclusion.

"In the early stages of the crisis Tepco may have wanted to avoid panic. Now people are used to the situation - nothing is resolved but normal business has resumed in places like Tokyo," said Koichi Nakano, a political science professor at Sophia University.

Nakano said that by confirming the meltdowns now, Tepco may be hoping the news will have a smaller impact. The word "meltdown" has such a strong connotation that when the situation was more uncertain, more people probably would have fled Tokyo, he said.

God forbid that "business as usual" should be interrupted for human safety!

www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/24/japan-tepco-reactors-idUSL3E7GO0442
0110524


Now, if they would just bury the suckers...

They're dead, Jim.

------------

Although, it finally occurred to me why iodine (fission product), temperature and radiation spiked in reactor No 1 after a 7.4 aftershock: uranium fuel pellets were shaken down packed tighter together, increasing fission and temperature.

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Tuesday, May 24, 2011 7:17 AM

HARDWARE


Unfortunately, burying the critical mass would only make matters worse. You would actually be encouraging a China syndrome. Cooling water needs to continue circulating in the reactor vessel to cool the critical mass or you get another meltdown.

The reactor vessel is compromised and leaking, which or course spreads contamination. They are moving to put a temporary cap on Unit 1. But only to prevent the airborne release of more contamination.

There is a long road ahead of them before this accident is even close to resolution.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Tuesday, May 24, 2011 9:46 AM

BYTEMITE


I thought we were already looking at a China Syndrome.

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Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:10 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The answer may be to blow the corium apart with conventional explosives. To MAKE it spread out to both cool and reduce the chain reactions.

Russia threw thousands of miners at the problem to dig underneath the corium so that it could be cooled with liquid nitrogen. It was for nothing - the corium hit the concrete and spread out and cooled - relatively - on its own. But they were at least TRYING to get ahead of the looming disaster.

Japan? The NRC? The IAEA? Not so much. Their answer .....



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Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:29 PM

BYTEMITE


Interesting. PN has recommended something similar, which I was hesitant to commit to simply because it seems to me explosives means kicking up stuff into the air, but maybe it doesn't work that way?

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Tuesday, May 24, 2011 7:25 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well, I do smell a lot of if comin' off that plan ...

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Tuesday, May 24, 2011 7:37 PM

JAMERON4EVA


The biggest detriment to the whole situation, the Japanese haven't asked for help. Look at Chernobyl, they not right off the bat, but pretty soon afterwords, asked for help. Which the U.S. was more than willing to provide, in fact the U.S PAYED the Russians to be able to help them. One the biggst points for the easing of the cold war tensions. It's been what, two three months now at Fukushima? I'm worried bout WORLD WIDE impact, will it have big effect here in my little corner of Florida, is big to me, but can you BLAME me, i live here, we have an entire FLEET of NAVY men and women, and MARINE men and women, in the pacific, Japans almost certainly screwed for a long time, and the rest te world is titering on the edge of that too. One country that stands to gain, China.

"Mom, he has her chip. He has her."
John Connor,"Born To Run", TSCC EP 2x22

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Sunday, June 12, 2011 4:50 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Japanese authorities admit nuclear material ... may have leaked into the ground

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3241508.htm

Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Japanese authorities have admitted the crisis at the Fukushima nuclear plant in March may have been worse than a core meltdown.
... Japan says nuclear fuel in three reactors possibly melted through several pressure vessels and into the earth below.
This week it went from a reactor meltdown to what they're calling a melt-through.

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Sunday, June 12, 2011 7:33 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Ok, regarding radioactive water - is it the water itself, or primarily particulate debris IN the water which is the primary source of radiation output ?

Cause if the latter, perhaps the same centrifuge units which were (piecemeal and by stealth, alas) used in the gulf during the BP spill could be, with proper precautions, effective here ?

Just wondering...

-F

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Sunday, June 12, 2011 8:53 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Radioactive contaminations both suspended and dissolved (like salt in water).

The suspended stuff you could centrifuge out, but the dissolved stuff would need sophisticated water treatment. I'm not a water-treatment specialist, but metals (like uranium, plutonium, cesium and strontium) can be precipitated out as metal hydroxide floc (by adding magnesium hydroxide), clarified by adding coagulant, and then finished with an ion exchanger. But this produces a large amount of highly radioactive sludge... 100 million becquerels per cc. And everything the water touches.... everything... the ponds, pumps and resins... also becomes heavily contaminated.

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Sunday, June 12, 2011 9:29 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I think... on reflection... that the issue is that the entire site will get too "hot" for anyone to do anything there. Unit No 1 drywell's radiation readings have been oscillating between about 30 Sieverts per hour and 200+, but each time it goes up, it goes up higher.



I have no idea how to account for those readings; the only explanation is that the corium is going critical, then climbing back down, then going critical again. Either way, exposure to that kind of radiation for just a few minutes is certain death. TEPCO withdrew workers from Unit No 3 a few days ago due to too high radiation, and Unit No 2 has been a no-go zone since the explosion. Unit No 4 spent fuel pool is totally fucked.

Meanwhile, the reactors keep spewing radiation. Not just into the water, but into the air as well. Japan is getting more and more contaminated.

"I think it's dead Jim." Just circle the site with a wall that goes down to bedrock and bury the goddamn things. TEPCO can hold a funeral if they want.

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Monday, June 13, 2011 10:01 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Maybe that's the only viable answer.

A couple of weeks after this all started, when they were pouring seawater into the reactors and letting it run off wherever it did, my rather sour thought was that they were going to try and solve the problem by flushing all the radioactivity into the ocean and steaming it into the air. Radiation problem solved!

Nothing they have done to date makes this any less reasonable as an interpretation.

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Monday, June 13, 2011 12:05 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Ok, so is centrifuge + evaporative distillation a viable possiblity ?

The remaining sludge being a seperate issue, would that make the water itself safe ?

-F

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, June 13, 2011 1:28 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


FRem, how are your friends Yuriko and Maltquake? I hope their town is mannaging and that the two of them are able to keep things going as well as possible.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, June 13, 2011 2:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Ok, so is centrifuge + evaporative distillation a viable possiblity ? The remaining sludge being a seperate issue, would that make the water itself safe ?
Well, almost. Evaporative distillation won't get rid of the iodine. But THAT will disappear with time.

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Monday, June 13, 2011 7:53 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Riona, I currently have no contact with them, and may not until almost the end of June, due to the necessity of having to tear down the remaining buildings (unrecoverable due to saturated foundations) and infrastructure, including power/communications in order to dump enough gravel/filldirt/shredded gomi to raise the place back above the new water level... I presume gomi means junk, leastways I think it does, unrecyclable "normal" stuff, which apparently is considered a resource, waste not, want not, ehe ?

Although having learned that, I don't see where she got off yanking my chain about how I'll squeeze ever last drop of use from something and then salvage it for parts...

I presume it's going well, hope so anyhow, and that in the event of disaster they'd lemme know somehow - likely there's still some friction about her being in charge of anything, but from what I understand she's got that "voice of command" thing and the ability to project authority down pat, and it's only gotten better due to her internship with international law enforcement, she's one of them folk who can just walk into a situation and "take charge" cause folk listen and obey on reflex as she knows the right strings to pull, which is, I presume, how she wound up in charge of the temple in the first place.

Although, yanno, I am *NOT* looking forward to the conversation gonna happen when she learns I became near-mortally ill almost the moment they knocked the place over - sheer coincidence that, but hoo lordy, you think imma convince HER of this ?

Still, the one thing we share for sure is the will to get stuff *done* and if nothing else, I trust in that - so here's for hopin it's going well.


Also - Have passed on the info about the potential for centrifuge + distillation to interested parties, who are thinking remote controlled drone-boats for this, provided the communication and control channels can be insulated from interference - but what to do with them once they've served their purpose and are fulla radioactive sludge is still gonna be an issue.

What a freakin mess.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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