REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Ways to solve global warming

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 7, 2009 04:02
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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 9:41 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


In the Kristellnacht/ Dancing on the Grave of Freedom thread I posted several pictures of technologies which could create a lot of jobs equivalent to building cars and refining petroleum; from high-tech advances like wind turbines, tidal turbines, solar power and mag-lev trains to advanced forestry techniques. We can also include biodiesel (from waste grease) and ethanol (from cellulosic waste), cool roofs, LED lights, carbon sequestration and no-till farming.

But, when I first saw this about five years ago, I thought HUH, and wondered if anything would become of it.

Well, here it is....

The millenium-old technique called "bio char"
Quote:

For centuries indigenous South Americans living in the Amazon Basin used a combination of charred animal waste and wood to make "terra preta," which means black earth, in Portuguese. Thousands of years later, the terra preta soil remains fertile without need for any added fertilizer, experts say.

"These terra preta soils are older than 500 years and they are still black soil and very rich in carbon," said Steiner, a professor at the University of Georgia. By using biochar concepts, terra preta soils have been proven to remain fertile for thousands of years, preventing further harmful deforestation for agricultural purposes.



http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/03/30/biochar.warming.energy/inde
x.html


---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 11:03 AM

WHOZIT


Also if you can get Keith Olberman to shut the hell up, you'd get rid of alot of HOT AIR.......AHHAHAHAHAHA!!

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 11:36 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Amazing - Zit looked on awesome information and saw --- the limited, puerile reflection of himself.

Enjoy your small boring cage, Zit. You and your bagel will be in it the rest of your life.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 11:43 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Amazing - Zit looked on awesome information and saw --- the limited, puerile reflection of himself.

Enjoy your small boring cage, Zit. You and your bagel will be in it the rest of your life.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

I'm off the Bagels now

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 11:47 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Then you'll be there --- alone.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 11:50 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Then you'll be there --- alone.

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AHHAHAHAHA!!....I do'nt get it?

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 11:51 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


S'wneyways

Considering that the biochar is made from biological materials, there's no contribution to the surface CO2 load. I wonder if one can use biological materials to heat up the waste to such a high temperature, or if one needs to use fossil fuels for that.

It appears, though, that overall the creation and use of biochar has a net negative effect on surface CO2. "Worldwide use of biochar could cut CO2 levels by 8 parts per million within 50 years, according to NASA scientist James Hansen."

And, gee, I have a garden ... where can I get me some of this stuff ?

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 12:00 PM

WHOZIT


Global Warming is a HOAX!

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 12:17 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Oh that's so cute - you're trying to play an April Fool's joke. Run along now, sonny. Let the grownups talk.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 12:45 PM

WHOZIT


Keith Olberman is a HOAX!

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 1:57 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Signy, since I didn't get a chance to say it on the other thread, THANK YOU for posting those amazing innovations!

One of them - the windmill covered in solar cells (I *think* it's covered in solar cells, at least), is something I've been advocating for a few years now. I knew it was just a matter of time before someone had the bright idea to combine the two alternative-energy sources like that.

My gut feeling in talking to a few friends in the solar industry is that we're about ONE "silicon microchip"-style revolution away from amazingly easy, amazingly cheap, amazingly efficient solar cells. Cells that will be so thin they can be used like window tinting on cars and houses (and also incorporate LCD/LED technology to vary darkness/opacity), cells that can be "painted" onto a house or sprayed on a roof. It's possible now, but still cost-prohibitive, at least for the moment. When that big breakthrough comes, cheap solar will be as prevalent as home computers became in the 80s and 90s.

Also coming along with that breakthrough - and already coming to market this spring on the newly redesigned and reengineered Toyota Prius - will be solar power for the car's electrical system, to help power the accessories and charge the batteries when the car is parked. And with that comes more convenience, in the form of programmable HVAC controls. You want your car nice and cool in the summer when you get off work? Easy - simply program the A/C system and the electric A/C compressor will kick on early to keep your car cool when you're nowhere around it.




Mike

just lying smiling in the dark
shooting stars around your heart
dreams come bouncing in your head
pure and simple everytime
now you're crying in your sleep
i wish you'd never learnt to weep
don't sell the dreams you should be keeping
pure and simple everytime


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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 2:38 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
My gut feeling in talking to a few friends in the solar industry is that we're about ONE "silicon microchip"-style revolution away from amazingly easy, amazingly cheap, amazingly efficient solar cells. Cells that will be so thin they can be used like window tinting on cars and houses (and also incorporate LCD/LED technology to vary darkness/opacity), cells that can be "painted" onto a house or sprayed on a roof. It's possible now, but still cost-prohibitive, at least for the moment. When that big breakthrough comes, cheap solar will be as prevalent as home computers became in the 80s and 90s.


Speaking from England, is there anything that works with rain? Yes Rain would be our preferred weather for power generation.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 2:40 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I would guess that the helical windmill would work well using the force of falling rain. You could have a rainmill - yes ?

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 2:44 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Ways to solve it ? There is no solving of imaginary problems.




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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 2:47 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I guess you can join Zit in his cage. How do you feel about being his bagel ?

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And that's really a step down - from Rush's good dog to Zit's bagel.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 2:51 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Ways to solve it ? There is no solving of imaginary problems.




Yeah, 'cause even if there is no Global Warming, like Rush tells you to think, switching to sustainable, non-polluting potentially cheaper power generation is just plain fucking stupid huh? I mean, what the fuck are we thinking? Spend more money shitting where you eat using fuels that will run out soon, that's what you always say, right?

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:04 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"These terra preta soils are older than 500 years and they are still black soil and very rich in carbon ..."

I've been considering this some more. There are a lot of places around the world where the soil has been degraded - washed away or blown away. I wonder if we - as a species - could get involved in Terra-forming Terra. What places could be restored ? What places could be improved ?

This speculation leads to many happy daydreams.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:09 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Oh great, the " WHAT IF IT'S TRUE " line of BULLSHIT reasoning.

Hell, while you're at it, why not throw in the fundie classic - " I'd rather believe in God and be wrong than not believe and pay for my mistake for all eternity.


Please, is that the BEST you got ?




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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:13 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


What he said was - even if it's NOT true there are still many benefits to alternative energy ("sustainable, non-polluting potentially cheaper power generation").

And why wouldn't you want that ?

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:16 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Oh great, the " WHAT IF IT'S TRUE " line of BULLSHIT reasoning.

Hell, while you're at it, why not throw in the fundie classic - " I'd rather believe in God and be wrong than not believe and pay for my mistake for all eternity.


Please, is that the BEST you got ?


Oh great, the "I can't argue against what you said so I'm going to LIE about what you said, and hope it sticks" line of BULLSHIT argument.

Hell, while you're at it, why not throw in the fundie classic - "If you dare to think differently to how my preacher tells me to think, I'll murder you and your family (especially your kids)"

Please, is that the BEST you got?

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:18 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
What he said was - even if it's NOT true there are still many benefits to alternative energy ("sustainable, non-polluting potentially cheaper power generation").

And why wouldn't you want that ?


Because he want's us to shit where we eat? I dunno, he's been slurping up Rush Limbaughs bullshit for so long he thinks shit is a corner stone of any delicious balanced diet.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:21 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


The mental picture you just drew - I honestly lost my appetite for dinner.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:22 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


you can shit where ever the hell you want, it's not gonna affect the climate in the slightest.

IT'S ALWAYS CHANGING, AND ALWAYS WILL BE. Humanity isn't affecting it one god damn bit.

MORONS.




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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:22 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
What he said was - even if it's NOT true there are still many benefits to alternative energy ("sustainable, non-polluting potentially cheaper power generation").

And why wouldn't you want that ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.



Because it clashes with his Exxon stock.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:23 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
you can shit where ever the hell you want, it's not gonna affect the climate in the slightest.

IT'S ALWAYS CHANGING, AND ALWAYS WILL BE. Humanity isn't affecting it one god damn bit.

MORONS.


Man, you're so ignorant and stupid it hurts. Learn to read English, and learn to think for yourself. Rush Limbaugh isn't going to fall in love with you no matter how much you lie for him.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:26 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"Because it clashes with his Exxon stock."
There is that.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:26 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Because it clashes with his Exxon stock.


Or maybe it conflicts with the masters Exxon stock.

Imagine AURaptor as an Igor who has yet to have he's brain implanted, and it all starts to make more sense.

"Ruthhh Limbaugh ith my marthter, I mutht do ath he commandth!"

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:29 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


So, Rap

"What he said was - even if it's NOT true there are still many benefits to alternative energy ("sustainable, non-polluting potentially cheaper power generation").

And why wouldn't you want that ?"

Any answer ?

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:29 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


citizen, and you're such a fucking sheep, it's laughable.







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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:32 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


So, Rap

"What he said was - even if it's NOT true there are still many benefits to alternative energy ("sustainable, non-polluting potentially cheaper power generation").

And why wouldn't you want that ?"

To that I would add decentralized, meaning rugged against large-scale failure.


Any answer ?

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:46 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I'm starting to think - not.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
So, Rap

"What he said was - even if it's NOT true there are still many benefits to alternative energy ("sustainable, non-polluting potentially cheaper power generation").

And why wouldn't you want that ?"

Any answer ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.



Hey, I'm all for efficiency. I laugh at the stupidity of city folks who drive SUVs that never come closer to the wild frontier than rolling over the dirt spilled by a dump truck. But let the public choose what they want to drive, and dont' try to guilt us into driving crap cars that don't come anywhere near " saving the planet " unless that's what they truly want to drive.

The kook fringe Left that's driving the anti- EVERYTHING post Industrial Revolution attack on the world won't even listen to reason. There's no such thing as clean coal ? Oh, ok, fine. No nukes ? Geee, where the fuck are we suppose to get our energy from ? Wind power ? When the giant blades aren't slicing away the planet's bird population, there's nothing. Quite literally,there's NO power unless the wind is blowing, and that simply isn't a reliable source. What IS reliable is Nuclear power, but hell, the wackos don't want that either, because you can't bury it anywhere. ( Don't tell that to France, 80% of their electric power comes from nuke power )

So, sure, there's some things we can do, but the hard core truth about power in the 21st century is that oil gives more bang for the buck than any other source, and it's not even close.




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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:59 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Hey simmer, I'm watching VH1's Greatest 1 hit wonders from the 80's.

My attention isn't all here, k ?




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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 4:24 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


So your short answer is oil, or coal or nuclear - and nothing else.

***************************************************************

All highly centralized and therefore easy to break.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 4:46 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I wonder how much of that biochar is nanotubes or buckeyballs????

But, terraforming earth... I can think of a LOT of places where that would work well. What the ancients used to do was start a fire on the ground and then smother it... low-tech pyrolysis. One really GOOD place to start would be the tropics. The problem with the tropics is that the soil degrades so very quickly under the onslaught of so much rain.

The northwest areas that have been clear-cut (in preparation for deforestation). Central Valley CA. The Great Plains. Parts of Australia.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 4:53 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I was looking it up - there is a UN proposal to use biochar to restore degraded agricultural land: http://www.ecoversity.org/archives/UNCCD-biochar-pyrolysis.pdf

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 4:58 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I wonder how much of that biochar is PAHs ?

***************************************************************

Anyway ... I'm going off-line now in a nice hazy daydream of a better world ...

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 4:59 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

It seems logical that if you don’t develop alternative energy, then alternative energy will never be as good as the energy you’ve got right now.

Kind of like how a steam engine is much more efficient than a hybrid gasoline engine that no one builds.

I do wish that the tree-hugger crowd would abandon global warming arguments that make some people bristle. As someone wisely said, low-cost, efficient, low-polluting energy is its own reward. You don’t need anything else to sell it.

If I was president, there are probably two energy technologies I would strive to develop for the good of all humanity: Efficient Energy Storage and Solar Power.

Of the two, Efficient Energy Storage is much more important. Once you have the ability to store all available energy, you can get energy from all available sources. Heinlein had it right. The future of energy isn’t in some whizbang amazing sci-fi reactor. It’s in being able to store and transport energy easily and efficiently. Capture lightning-bolts in Seattle, Miami, and London. Capture sunlight in Arizona, New Mexico, and Nevada. Capture Hydroelectric and Geothermal wherever there is a mountain. Run every energy generating or capturing device at full throttle all the time. The trick is merely to store it for use as needed, and then all energy becomes embarrassingly cheap.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 5:00 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


So true ...

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 5:14 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
So your short answer is oil, or coal or nuclear - and nothing else.

***************************************************************

All highly centralized and therefore easy to break.



Depends on what you're talking 'bout. Solar isn't going to run your car, but it can, in limited cases, help run a house. Same for wind power. But to power a car, and get it over hills and over the long haul, yeah, oil based fuels are still the way.




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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 5:37 PM

BYTEMITE


France doesn't try to bury it, they just try to import it into my state so WE can bury it instead.

I'm not entirely sure how something that produces hazardous radioactive waste can be considered "clean power."

And I don't think I'll be taking the advice from the President of our beloved local nuclear waste importer when he says we can go ahead and eat yellow cake and be just fine. The stuff's not going to blow up, but it's not as safe as I'd like, either.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 5:50 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Rap,

Solar power can provide the energy you need to move a car just fine, as long as you can store it efficiently.

Electric vehicles are actually capable of doing everything your dinosaur burner can do.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 5:54 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I do think Nuclear power is better for the environment than coal or oil. Nuclear waste is still waste, but its volume is astoundingly less than the amount of waste we carelessly disseminate throughout the globe with combustion powerplants. People worry rightly over containment of nuclear waste, but no one seems to worry about containing the waste you take big lungfulls of each day.

Given a choice between the two, I'll take nuclear power. Fortunately, it's not just a choice between those two.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 6:13 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello Rap,

Solar power can provide the energy you need to move a car just fine, as long as you can store it efficiently.

Electric vehicles are actually capable of doing everything your dinosaur burner can do.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner



'as long as you store it efficiently'

Neither solar or battery power matches gas, and it's not even close.




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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 6:15 PM

BYTEMITE


Well, over here in the west, the pollution from the coal power isn't as bad as what you get out east. In the east, nuclear might actually be a half good idea... If the east wasn't always suggesting Utah and Nevada to store the waste for them. 9_9

We do have our bad days... That's mostly the sulfur from the smelter, nitrates-to-ozone from the livestock and our cars, and a sort of regrettable air-trapping topography.

Nuclear power here in the west isn't the best idea. We got FAULTS, everywhere, geologic feature called the Great basin. And we get enough sunshine that solar power and wind power actually could reasonably be expected to meet our energy needs. That is, if California got off our grid and invested in some deep ocean turbines or something.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 6:18 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

But surely Mr. Raptor, you support research and development into the field. I mean, when you tout combustion as the power generation technique of the 21st century, I can't help but think...

"Really? 91 more years of R&D, and you're not striving to do better?"

We can only improve by doing. So lets do more. The 20th century took us from the Model-T to the Prius. Maybe the 21st century can take us from the Prius to the Electro-zoom-whoosh. :-)

--Anthony



"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 6:24 PM

BYTEMITE


*Imitates Jetsons car noise*

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 11:49 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I do think Nuclear power is better for the environment than coal or oil. Nuclear waste is still waste, but its volume is astoundingly less than the amount of waste we carelessly disseminate throughout the globe with combustion powerplants. People worry rightly over containment of nuclear waste, but no one seems to worry about containing the waste you take big lungfulls of each day.

Given a choice between the two, I'll take nuclear power. Fortunately, it's not just a choice between those two.


So did I, until a few things came to my attention. It's not just radioactive waste, but the reactor and components as well, they're all left highly radioactive after use, and will stay deadly to all life and the environment for thousands of years. There are no long term ways currently of storing this waste, consider that the storage facilities in the US are all nearing or over capacity, and they're all only designed for temporary storage. Who knows what's going to happen in the next 10,000 years, it would be silly to assume that these storage facilities will remain closed and safe. Seems to me that some future civilisation is almost guaranteed to crack them open in the name of Archaeology.

Promises of curses in some long dead language didn't stop the mummy hunters in Egypt, why would it stop people in the future?

As for you AURaptor, if you ever start thinking for yourself, rather than blindly following whatever lies Rush Limbaugh shovels down your gullet, and lying about what people say in order to be contrary, maybe some one would care about what you're saying. Since you don't think for yourself, and since you do claim other people are stupid and sheep, while proving yourself the stupidest authoritarian follower on this or damn near any site, it's hard to see how you could possibly think anyone could take anything you say seriously. If I wanted to know what some insane drug addicted fascist twat thought about a subject, I'd ask Rush myself, I don't need you to parrot every word he says.

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Wednesday, April 1, 2009 11:57 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hey, I'm all for efficiency. I laugh at the stupidity of city folks who drive SUVs that never come closer to the wild frontier than rolling over the dirt spilled by a dump truck. But let the public choose what they want to drive, and dont' try to guilt us into driving crap cars that don't come anywhere near " saving the planet " unless that's what they truly want to drive.


Quite clearly you're not, since you felt the utter irresistible need to lie about what I said when I pointed out certain pros to using renewable sources that had nothing to do with global warming.
Quote:


So, sure, there's some things we can do, but the hard core truth about power in the 21st century is that oil gives more bang for the buck than any other source, and it's not even close.


The core truth is that this is another RapFact (lie) spouted by someone too stupid and sheep like to think for "himself".

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Thursday, April 2, 2009 12:36 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello Rap,

Solar power can provide the energy you need to move a car just fine, as long as you can store it efficiently.

Electric vehicles are actually capable of doing everything your dinosaur burner can do.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner



'as long as you store it efficiently'

Neither solar or battery power matches gas, and it's not even close.






It's quite a bit closer than you might think:

http://video.google.com/videosearch?client=safari&rls=en&q=top%20gear%
20elise%20vs%20tesla&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wv
#

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