FEATURE ARTICLE DISCUSSIONS

RE:

POSTED BY: JUTIN
UPDATED: Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:08
SHORT URL: http://bit.ly/yJLhZc
VIEWED: 6522
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Sunday, November 6, 2005 12:52 AM

JUTIN


I am like most of you. I hated FOX when they cancelled Firefly. I bombarded them with angry letters telling them to stop cancelling great shows, just because Firefly had a small fraction of American Idol's ratings.

I eventually realized something, looking at my wall of DVDs, my TV show section is made up of a lot of cancelled TV shows. Firefly, Wonderfalls, Greg The Bunny, Dark Angel and I would love to have Action released on DVD so I can run out and buy it... Aside from Buffy/Angel and Garfield, all of my TV show DVDs are of shows that originally aired on FOX... The Simpsons, Arrested Development, 24 and That 70's Show being the only other DVDs that I haven't mentioned and they are all still on the air and are shown on FOX.

What I realized is this: While FOX cancels many shows that I LOVE SO MUCH... these are shows that FOX took the chance on, shows that FOX put on the air... great original programing being brought to us by FOX... While other networks have Lost (I hate that show, they ain't doin' nuthin') and CSI (man is that a load of steamy crap worthy of two spin-offs) and... what does NBC have? I forget... oh Cheers... anywho, if it weren't for FOX we would have never even seen Firefly or any other show that they took from you. They can't take something you love without being smart enough to bring it to us in the first place.

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 1:12 AM

MOOSE


Good point.

Still doesn't stop me from hating F*X, though.


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Sunday, November 6, 2005 2:52 AM

JACQUI


FOX is a three letter F word.

*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 3:02 AM

PHOEBE


FOX didn't create those shows. The writers/creators did. Therefore those shows may have existed without Fox - they just would not have been cancelled prematurely. There are other networks that may have picked them up.

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 4:17 AM

INTERLUDE


I used to say this jokingly, but I’m beginning to believe it more and more... I don’t think FOX takes on shows like Firefly with the intention of ever keeping them around for an extended period. FOX has a long history of taking on specific types of shows and then canceling them in the first couple of season. Firefly for one, but also DA and many others. They seem to go for the “cultish” shows, do unbelievably shitty jobs promoting them, and then cancel them when they unsurprisingly don’t do all that well. Firefly replaced DA, they’ve got other shows to replace Firefly. One at a time they pick up these shows and cancel the other. FOX scoops up the copyrights, lets them live just long enough to gain the extremely loyal fan base that such shows do, and then sits back and enjoys large merchandise and other sales which come from their exclusive rights. Shows, like Firefly, with these types of fan bases are opportunities for FOX to gain great profits without having to put much energy into the show itself. I really don’t think FOX gives a rats ass about the shows themselves. If they end up being another super big smash hit like the X-Files, great, otherwise throw them into the rest of the scrap pile. FOX absolutely disgusts me, and I have lost all respect for that company long ago. As Phoebe said, don’t assume just because FOX got the final bid that nobody else would have picked up so many of our beloved shows.

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 9:30 AM

FOLLOWMAL




I hadn't looked at it that way, Interlude, but I agree with you now that I see your point.

I'm a new fan, and sitting watching "Out of Gas" last night, all I could think of was that FOX was foolish.... then I started getting angry, thinking of all the stories we have missed out on!
Then I got more angry!!

Of course FOX is supposed to do things for money, but I think FOX worships money, and I don't think they care who they harm, who they let down, how much they "dumb down" what they present.

"Disgusts" is exactly the right word!





"They tell you never hit a man with a closed fist, but it is on occasion hilarious." Mal

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 10:54 AM

CHINDI


Jutin has an excellent point.. and I think I am glad they took the chance on Firefly int he first place or we wouldn't have even the few shows we do...but here is another question..

is it Fox or is it the average public???

are we victims of that lowest common denominator sort of thinking- where society is just getting dumbed down?

Do we REALLY think Fox takes on shows HOPING they will be cancelled sooner rather than later? That doesn't make business sense to me.

Happy to read any explanations...

Chindi

out in the black

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 11:01 AM

SEP7IMUS


Quote:

Originally posted by Chindi:
Jutin has an excellent point.. and I think I am glad they took the chance on Firefly int he first place or we wouldn't have even the few shows we do...but here is another question..

is it Fox or is it the average public???

are we victims of that lowest common denominator sort of thinking- where society is just getting dumbed down?

Do we REALLY think Fox takes on shows HOPING they will be cancelled sooner rather than later? That doesn't make business sense to me.

Happy to read any explanations...

Chindi

out in the black



I think that what you're implying is about right. FOX tries out cult-ish shows with unusual premises in the hopes of creating a breakaway hit. If they don't succeed quickly, FOX just moves on.

Basically, they're looking for another X-Files.

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 12:41 PM

BJAY


Fox is known for taking chances on crap. I know them as taking chances, getting a great show with tones of potential and then throwing it away

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Sunday, November 6, 2005 2:10 PM

JUTIN


The article called "$2.00 could have saved Firefly?" makes excellent points about how the ratings are a very old school way to gauge the numbers and that iTunes TV show downloads would be a far more accurate way to see how many viewers are watching... and with just two $2 from all of us Firefly would still be in production and would be commercial free.

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Monday, November 14, 2005 9:33 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD


Yes, let the hate flow through you. Your anger toward fox will give you strength. Give in to your rage and you shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine. Strike fox down and your journey shall be complete. Although before you wage your mad crusade against the fox empire you should make sure you have medical insurance and update your will so that you’ll be prepared when the fox security guards tackle you and break your spine.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:12 AM

JUTIN


What in the heck are you talking about?

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:30 AM

THESENTINEL


F*** FOX!

FOX

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Wednesday, November 16, 2005 6:47 PM

RIVER6213


No, FOX should be hated with a passion. Those idiots took away our show.

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Wednesday, November 16, 2005 8:54 PM

SHAUNA


I get tired of everyone pointing to the X-Files as Fox's one instance where a cultish hit took off. It did,but Fox was a different network when the X-Files initially aired. It was the little fourth network trying to break into the top 3. Fox allowed the X-Files ratings to build and nurtured it. When X-Files became popular, I remember talking to people who'd brag about watching it from the beginning, because the truth is many didn't watch it in it's first season.


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Wednesday, November 16, 2005 9:49 PM

REGINAROADIE


The way I see it, FOX wants to be the network equivalent of HBO. By doing shows that the big three wouldn't touch. But they have intimacy issues. Unless if it's a hit out the gate, they don't hang onto it. There have been unconventional shows on FOX that have thrived because they were on FOX. THE SIMPSONS initially wouldn't have been picked up anywhere else. Same with X-FILES as well. IN LIVING COLOR, a landmark in sketch-comedy tv wouldn't have made it on any of the other netowrks. And for every six or so boundary pushing shows that don't make the cut, there's at least one that ends up sticking, like MALCOLM IN THE MIDDLE or 24. And even though they're axing ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT, they at least gave it 2 1/2 years for it to flourish, as opposed to a few weeks.

So while I applaud FOX for taking chances with these unconventional shows, they still need to learn to cultivate these cult shows into national phenoms, like any other network.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"YES!!!I'm a man posessed by many demons....Polite demons that would open the door for a lady carrying too many parcels...BUT DEMONS NONETHELESS!!!! Yes. I have walked along the path of evil many times, it's a twisting, curving path that..actually leads to a charming plot garden, BUT BEYOND THAT EVIL!!!"

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Friday, February 3, 2006 9:04 PM

STILLFREE


Hmm, I still kinda hate FOX. I know they gave us the show in the first place, but (and I'm ashamed to say this) there's kind of an empty spot in me right now because the show didn't get the chance it should have. If I had watched Lost and it was nixed halfway through the first season I'd probably kick some as...write a very angry letter. I haven't even seen most of the episodes (yeah bad, shush) and I miss the characters. It has potential on so many levels.

I think Fox messed up bad. Judging by the RABID response of fans, Firefly can still be a big hit. Why oh why doesn't another network like USA or Sci-fi Channel pick up more episodes. And yes, episodes and not movies. It's about characters, and it's difficult to have Firefly level character interaction and devolpment in movies. Different beast entirely.

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Saturday, February 4, 2006 1:01 AM

NELLIE


Quote:

Originally posted by Interlude:

FOX scoops up the copyrights, lets them live just long enough to gain the extremely loyal fan base that such shows do, and then sits back and enjoys large merchandise and other sales which come from their exclusive rights. Shows, like Firefly, with these types of fan bases are opportunities for FOX to gain great profits without having to put much energy into the show itself.



Wow! Interlude, you have just solved the mystery!

If Fox really thought Firefly was rubbish, why are they clinging onto the copyright for 10 years instead of selling it off cheap?

You just gave the best answer, at least it seems so to me. I never believed these people were stupid---you don't build up a company that size, making that much profit, by being stupid.

At long last, someone has come up with an answer that makes real sense. Real financial sense, and as you say, that's all they care about.

I feel kind of relieved now, because I just couldn't understand it before.

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 1:45 AM

V


Fox Executive: We want a show from you, you did Buffy, and people loved it.

Joss: Ok, lemme get back to you on that...

Six months later

Joss: Here's a pilot for my new show, it's called "Firefly"

Fox Executive: *Brief pause* Uh...we have no idea how to sell this...

Joss: What are you saying? You wanted a show!

Fox Executive: Yeah...but this is hard to sell to people, not enough action happening, uh...do another pilot, we'll air this one later.

Joss: But that's the pilot to the whole series!

Fox Executive: Listen, do you wear the suit? Do you decide what shows go on the air? Let us do our job.

Annnnnd Scene.

Remember, Remember the fifth of November

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 12:15 PM

BOOKSWORD


Quote:

Originally posted by JuTin:
I am like most of you. I hated FOX when they cancelled Firefly. I bombarded them with angry letters telling them to stop cancelling great shows, just because Firefly had a small fraction of American Idol's ratings.

I eventually realized something, looking at my wall of DVDs, my TV show section is made up of a lot of cancelled TV shows. Firefly, Wonderfalls, Greg The Bunny, Dark Angel and I would love to have Action released on DVD so I can run out and buy it... Aside from Buffy/Angel and Garfield, all of my TV show DVDs are of shows that originally aired on FOX... The Simpsons, Arrested Development, 24 and That 70's Show being the only other DVDs that I haven't mentioned and they are all still on the air and are shown on FOX.

What I realized is this: While FOX cancels many shows that I LOVE SO MUCH... these are shows that FOX took the chance on, shows that FOX put on the air... great original programing being brought to us by FOX... While other networks have Lost (I hate that show, they ain't doin' nuthin') and CSI (man is that a load of steamy crap worthy of two spin-offs) and... what does NBC have? I forget... oh Cheers... anywho, if it weren't for FOX we would have never even seen Firefly or any other show that they took from you. They can't take something you love without being smart enough to bring it to us in the first place.



I get your point. But while I love the shows I cant but hate the bugger who killed the woman..show I loved. Plus Fox news bugs the crap out of me.

Its like a candy man who lets me taste the suger sweetness of Firefly/Wonderfalls etc just to take it away. Leaving me the bitter taste of Charmed and the OC.

But I get and respect your point to a degree.

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 5:56 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Very very good point.
To good in fact, I liked hating FOX for cancelling all my favourite shows

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 5:56 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Very very good point.
To good in fact, I liked hating FOX for cancelling all my favourite shows

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 5:56 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Very very good point.
To good in fact, I liked hating FOX for cancelling all my favourite shows

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 5:56 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Very very good point.
To good in fact, I liked hating FOX for cancelling all my favourite shows

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 5:56 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Very very good point.
To good in fact, I liked hating FOX for cancelling all my favourite shows

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 5:56 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Very very good point.
To good in fact, I liked hating FOX for cancelling all my favourite shows

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 6:11 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by JuTin:

Arrested Development

and they are all still on the air and are shown on FOX.





They got cancelled.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Monday, April 24, 2006 6:06 PM

JUTIN


yep... another truly sad day for the television landscape... and such a hilarious show too

-------------------------------------------------
Boston Legal - Tuesdays @ 10:00 (ET) on ABC


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Saturday, July 1, 2006 12:26 PM

TRAVELER


I am just happy someone mentioned Wonderfalls. I thought I was alone in discovering this masterpiece. I actually laughed out load while watching Wonderfalls, I haven't done that since the early Simsons. But this just another example of a network not supporting its own programing. I do not remember seeing any promotion for Firefly. Did I just miss it or did they just throw it on the air without any support. I don't remember seeing any promotion for Wonderfalls as well. But is FOX alone. Are the other networks as bad. I enjoyed the Guardian and it just disolved into network archives. Remember the first Star Trek was cancelled in the middle of its third season and soon after they had Trekies. Did I spell that right? Now we have more legions watching Firefly then rebels had fighting the Alliance. So the wheel turns. Fifteen episodes are better than none. Do you here about people watching Star Trek the Next Generation on DVD for the tenth time? Well maybe you have, but you discovered a small gem that FOX threw away and you picked it up. That is good. Who knows what other gems are out there or where they may be found. So you can continue hating FOX or start enjoying the gem you found.

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Saturday, July 1, 2006 6:44 PM

NAFLM


Quote:

Originally posted by reginaroadie:
And even though they're axing ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT, they at least gave it 2 1/2 years for it to flourish, as opposed to a few weeks.



Well, I think that depends on how you look at it. I remember looking at the Fox website for Arrested Development sometime during the second season and it had not been updated since the first season. (No mention of the second season, mentions of award nominations but none for actual awards won.) As for the third season, I can't speak for every area but at least in this area I don't recall seeing any advertising for it. (I do recall seeing commercials for reruns of King of the Hill airing at midnight, but that may be a local affiliate thing.) And you can't expect to gain an audience when you air two episodes and then bump it for three - four weeks. That's not what I call allowing it to flourish. (David Cross has a great diatribe about Fox's handling of the show on one of the DVD's blooper reels.) The only commercial I remember seeing for Firefly was when they aired the original pilot, and that was the last one that they showed. (Cleared up some confursion for me though. I had read a favourable review of the Serenity pilot in a local paper before the show started, then saw "The Train Job" and didn't see any of the references that the author had made.)

Fox has a habit of setting up a show to fail and then saying "we gave it a shot". As soon as I found out that episodes of Arrested Development would be bumped for football I was sure it would be cancelled. When they reduced the number of episodes I knew that it had been "unofficially" cancelled.

Quote:

Originally posted by STILLFREE:
Why oh why doesn't another network like USA or Sci-fi Channel pick up more episodes.



Has Fox been showing any interest in giving up the rights? Once before I've heard that they didn't start "serious" bargaining with other networks until very late, when the other networks had already allocated most of their budget for the season, and then insisted on amounts that the other networks couldn't afford. This way they can again say that they "tried", rather than just refusing to sell the rights. I don't think any exec would want to let it go and see it be successful on another network. How do you then go to your boss and justify having cancelled the show in the first place?

Gah, sorry, that's a lot longer than I had intended. Rant off, I'm going to bed.

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Sunday, July 2, 2006 10:58 AM

JUTIN77


Absolutely, they really screwed around with such a great show. It was killing me. The season started and then nothing for a month and then two episodes and nothing for two more weeks and then two more episodes and then nothing until February when they showed four brand new extremely well written episodes... the greatest thing in my opinon was those two hours.

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Sunday, July 2, 2006 12:55 PM

KAYNA

I love my captain


Quote:

Originally posted by V:
Fox Executive: We want a show from you, you did Buffy, and people loved it.

Joss: Ok, lemme get back to you on that...

Six months later

Joss: Here's a pilot for my new show, it's called "Firefly"

Fox Executive: *Brief pause* Uh...we have no idea how to sell this...

Joss: What are you saying? You wanted a show!

Fox Executive: Yeah...but this is hard to sell to people, not enough action happening, uh...do another pilot, we'll air this one later.

Joss: But that's the pilot to the whole series!

Fox Executive: Listen, do you wear the suit? Do you decide what shows go on the air? Let us do our job.

Annnnnd Scene.


That pretty much what happened. FOX didn't pick up Firefly because they wanted to give a shot to sometyhing new and different. They wanted something else from Joss. They were probably hoping for a Buffy clone. It was not what they were expecting or what they wanted so even though they took it, they also f***ed it over.

And since we're metioning other good shows cancelled by FOX I have to mention Titus. I thought that was a hilarious show. While three seasons is more than most of the other canceled shows folks have mentioned had, it's still not very long.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.

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Tuesday, July 4, 2006 10:38 AM

ODDSBODSKINS


i can never remember, is Fox that odious wee shite rupert murdoch's american enterprise, or are they odious entirely of their own accord?


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Saturday, July 8, 2006 1:05 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


Quote:

Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
Yes, let the hate flow through you. Your anger toward fox will give you strength. Give in to your rage and you shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine. Strike fox down and your journey shall be complete. Although before you wage your mad crusade against the fox empire you should make sure you have medical insurance and update your will so that you’ll be prepared when the fox security guards tackle you and break your spine.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam




*fox execs enter the room*

exec 1: what are you guys talking about, no one hates FOX

exec 2: yeah we gave your lousy firefly a chance so what are you griping about?

me: you cancelled an excellent show after running it out of order

me: *sends tendrils of Force lightening at the execs*

execs: *screams, and then they fall down, dead, their Firefly killing bodies still steaming*



http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

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Friday, January 5, 2007 11:24 PM

TATHRASEVENTEEN



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Friday, January 5, 2007 11:24 PM

TATHRASEVENTEEN


I have to admit, watching House is my only dirty little secret when it comes to F*X.

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 2:29 PM

OONJERAH


quote Traveler: "Remember the first Star Trek was cancelled in the middle of its third season and soon after they had Trekies."

Star Trek, (1966-1969), NBC

Wikipedia: "After three seasons, NBC canceled the show, and the last original episode aired on June 3, 1969. However, the petition near
the end of the second season to save the show signed by many CalTech students and its multiple Hugo nominations would indicate that
despite low Nielsen ratings, it was highly popular with science fiction fans and engineering students. The series later became popular in
reruns and found a cult following."

I don't recall if I read it, someone told me; dunno if it is even true. (It was 40 years ago, after all.) But the story I heard about the Star Trek
cancellation made perfectly good sense. GM, Buick was the show's sponsor. Fans didn't have a lot of money and bought no Buicks. I've always
wondered why Buick would have sponsored a sci-fy show to begin with.



"All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest" ~Paul Simon

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 6:39 PM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth...Thanks for the air... and what-not" -Philip J. Fry


Are you digging in the archives?? You'll get lost that way...

SO VERY MANY THREADS!!!
They reach out and tangle you and before you know it-it's four thirty in the morning and you have a permanent keyboard impression on your forehead... and yer not likely to get responses from a lot of the old threads...

yee've been warned

Proceed at yer own insanity...


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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 7:09 PM

OONJERAH



I know that. It's just that ...
Comparing the Star Trek & the Firefly cancellations ... like comparing apples to artichokes.

But you're right.


"All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest" ~Paul Simon

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 7:30 PM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth...Thanks for the air... and what-not" -Philip J. Fry


I'm sure to those that were there then and ten years ago, the feeling was still something like being in a grief program, disbelief anger denial sadness bargaining acceptance... anger again...some more anger... I keep getting stuck on that one myself.

I only wish we got half what they got though...

I wasn't on board with the current incarnation of Trek for a long while. Wouldn't even watch the movie, but when I did I kinda got it- why they did what they did. It sure ain't the 60's anymore, that's fer sure... and Chris Pine isn't as charismatic as Shatner then, but they did well at giving him a set... This next one will have a long way to go, but everyone knows every other Trek movie sucks, sooo.... we'll see...

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:00 PM

1KIKI

Today, scientists sound the alarm on other environmental dangers. Vested interests still hire their own scientists to confuse the issue. But in the end, nature will not be fooled. Neil deGrasse Tyson


I used to hate F*X with a passion.

Then I realized that by being canceled when it was Firefly was left in a pristine state of endless possibility. The bad was actually --- good.

I still hate F*X though.

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Wednesday, February 15, 2012 1:16 PM

WHOZIT


I don't hate FOX but I'm not in love with it, "BONES" is my fav show and I love "Animation Domination". I seem to be watching more on cable these days so I have no great love for any of the other free networks.

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Wednesday, February 15, 2012 1:34 PM

PENGUIN








King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:17 PM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth...Thanks for the air... and what-not" -Philip J. Fry


hehehe...My sentiments exactly!!! I'd like to see you and Karel have an emo battle, that would be epic...

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Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:23 PM

KAREL

Flying on duct tape and a damaged registry.


Off topic: Wow, there is some serious fff.net history up there!


"Whatever is wrong with you is so right for me." -- Marillion.

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Wednesday, February 15, 2012 8:08 PM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth...Thanks for the air... and what-not" -Philip J. Fry


I musta slept since 2007, I don't even remember most of those handles, and I'm usually pretty good at that...Where are all these people?? Did they get disappeared by the blue hand people? Should we send out 40,000 search parties?? You know, I think if we ever did get the series back that this board would crash in the space of a day
Sounds fun as hell, don't it

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Wednesday, February 15, 2012 8:34 PM

OONJERAH



Would not crash except from overload.
After the New Series Premier, we'd have One week minus One hour to wait for the next.
We'd all be in here raving about the greatness, or not, of the new show. Nothing would shut us up.


"All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest" ~Paul Simon

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 4:01 AM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth...Thanks for the air... and what-not" -Philip J. Fry


I like that... NO POWER IN THE 'VERSE CAN SHUT US UP!
He he he he heh.

Soo true!

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:08 AM

OONJERAH



Hah!! You have made an innocent comment into a slogan and rallying cry!


"All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest" ~Paul Simon

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