GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Dead or Alive? The thread that decides it once and for all.

POSTED BY: WISHIMAY
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 13:13
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 8173
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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 7:53 AM

WISHIMAY

There will be fire and brimstone and Earth will be destroyed!... in several billion years!----------------------------------------- "Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry


If the series were to come back in any form, does Wash stay dead, or does he get magic-ed back?

Please just vote with "Dead" or "Alive" so we can get a tally. On July 4th I will add 'em up. I doubt this would affect anything, but I'd like ta know myself...

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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 8:12 AM

WISHIMAY

There will be fire and brimstone and Earth will be destroyed!... in several billion years!----------------------------------------- "Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry


Jarkeph in chat votes "alive"

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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 8:12 AM

WISHIMAY

There will be fire and brimstone and Earth will be destroyed!... in several billion years!----------------------------------------- "Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry


Tizera in chat votes "dead"

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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 8:47 AM

VERASAMUELS


Wash still dead, but Zoe pregnant with his child.

Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox

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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 8:50 AM

MUTT999



Alive.


Added: I say alive because in the event of a return, I'd really like it to take place during the 6 months between the series and the movie. All the adventures we missed in that time span!

If it was post movie, that's a whole 'nother story.




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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 9:24 AM

REAVERFAN


Alive.

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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 10:00 AM

LOOTZEE


Zombie......I mean dead



"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching"

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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:27 AM

OLDGUY

What Would Mal do ?


dead but his letharious twin brother is alive and well...with a ship of his own and a whole nother dynamic to bring to the table

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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:59 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Dead, dead, deadski

°...Well here I am.°

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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:17 PM

MOOSE


Dead

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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:21 PM

WHOZIT


If they do a reboot....hmmm?

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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:06 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Dead, but he can appear in flashbacks or dream sequences.




wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:33 PM

STORYMARK


Dead.

What happened, happened.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:50 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Alive! Alive! Alive! Can I vote more than once? :)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 2:28 PM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Alive. The dead are boring so far as TV plots are concerned, with few exceptions such as Dead Like Me or Reaper or Pushing Daisies or Being Human or Walking Dead. You know, animated dead are better than dead dead, with living Wash the best of all.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 2:38 PM

PENNAUSAMIKE


Extremely, vehemently alive!

Mike

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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 5:26 PM

BYTEMITE


Alive, I guess, even though narratively I think it would be a mistake and lose a lot of character development.

It just seems wildly inappropriate to wish for someone's death on the internet, even if they're fictional.

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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 6:47 PM

MOOSE


We're not wishing death on Wash, Joss made that decision already. We're just saying if we agree if his choice should stick or not.

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Tuesday, March 12, 2013 7:43 PM

MAL4PREZ


You're horrible, to force such a choice!

OK, dead.

But he'll be alive forever in flashbacks and back story of Zoe's father-of-her-child and whatever. I hope.

I don't know what else would work without being heart-breaking to the fans or lame as far as Hollywood plot line take-backs. (Does Joss get a take-back with this? In Buffy and Angel, sure, reincarnate away. But in Firefly, can it happen? *scratches head*)

But then, Joss knows more than me by about X100,000. I hope he gets the chance to pull the right kind of thing off and I hope he amazes us all. It'd be nice.

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Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:41 AM

PENNAUSAMIKE


Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
SNIP
or lame as far as Hollywood plot line take-backs.
(Does Joss get a take-back with this? But in Firefly, can it happen? *scratches head*)
SNIP



I'll remind you that Joss already saw fit to do a take-back with Dobson,
who got shot in the HEAD with a pistol that dropped a horse in one shot.

So yes, it can happen in Firefly,
for infinitely inferior story development reasons.

Mike

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Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:12 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by pennausamike:
I'll remind you that Joss already saw fit to do a take-back with Dobson,
who got shot in the HEAD with a pistol that dropped a horse in one shot.

So yes, it can happen in Firefly,
for infinitely inferior story development reasons.

Wash can be brought back with infinitely superior technology indistinguishable from magic per a story here on Fireflyfans.net www.fireflyfans.net/bluesun.aspx?bid=5185

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:37 AM

EBFIDDLER


Oh boy. I don't like that Wash was killed in the movie, but I don't like magical solutions, or time-warp re-winds or whatever. I'd rather have him come back, quite frequently, in dreams, flashbacks, and in people's memories. So lots and lots and lots of Wash, please, but he's still dead. (Same for Book.)

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Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:43 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Dead.

Anything else would cheapen his sacrifice and undo a part of what the BDM did for us.

_______________________________________________

Holding the line since December '02!



C.O. 76th Independent Battalion


http://76thbattalion.proboards.com


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Wednesday, March 13, 2013 6:57 AM

PENNAUSAMIKE


Quote:

Originally posted by ebfiddler:
Oh boy. I don't like that Wash was killed in the movie, but I don't like magical solutions, or time-warp re-winds or whatever. I'd rather have him come back, quite frequently, in dreams, flashbacks, and in people's memories. So lots and lots and lots of Wash, please, but he's still dead. (Same for Book.)



Wash was the comic relief.
Fond remembrances of the dead guy aren't really all that funny.

Not magic; Wash can be returned to the Firefly story using already established in the 'verse tech:

Put Wash in River's cryo-box to take him home for burial. Along the way, Simon informs the crew that the same medical tech that produced Tracy's hopped up internal organs ("million credit meat" in Tracy's words) are accessible at Government research facilities. Using a bit of improvisation and Book's ident card, they sneak Wash in place of a politico who bumped a deserving recipient (ala PA's governor Casey who bumped everybody down the list for his transplant). Alliance bashing, witty dialog and some gunplay ensues.

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Wednesday, March 13, 2013 7:03 AM

PENNAUSAMIKE


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Dead.

Anything else would cheapen his sacrifice and undo a part of what the BDM did for us.



All the ending of the BDM did for me was piss me off,
so, yeah, I don't mind if that gets undone.

Plus you can't cheapen a cheap shot.
All Wash did was get a spear thru the chest while he sat reciting poetry
instead of getting the heck out.
His NOBLE contribution was his piloting that saved the crew;
his ignominious death was unrelated to his noble actions.

Mike
My Firefly/Serenity Collection:
http://fireflydvd.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3541

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Wednesday, March 13, 2013 9:28 AM

WISHIMAY

There will be fire and brimstone and Earth will be destroyed!... in several billion years!----------------------------------------- "Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry


Awww, come on. There's another thread for the bickering, all you had to do was "dead" or "alive".

I can't imagine what it's like actually living with some of you *facepalm

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Thursday, March 14, 2013 6:48 AM

EBFIDDLER


Quote:

Originally posted by pennausamike:
Quote:

Originally posted by ebfiddler:
Oh boy. I don't like that Wash was killed in the movie, but I don't like magical solutions, or time-warp re-winds or whatever. I'd rather have him come back, quite frequently, in dreams, flashbacks, and in people's memories. So lots and lots and lots of Wash, please, but he's still dead. (Same for Book.)



Wash was the comic relief.
Fond remembrances of the dead guy aren't really all that funny.



Actually, the flashbacks and memories and dreams can be quite comic. At least I have found that to be the case in my fanfic. ;-) Wash is still Wash, and he's still funny. :-)

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Thursday, March 14, 2013 8:03 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
Awww, come on. There's another thread for the bickering, all you had to do was "dead" or "alive".

I can't imagine what it's like actually living with some of you *facepalm



..."living with" is a relative term... Perhaps if you used the past tense?

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Thursday, March 14, 2013 10:21 AM

ZEEK


Dead

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Thursday, March 14, 2013 11:57 AM

MOOSE


Yeah, where is that other thread? I wanna bicker!


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Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:03 PM

MALACHITE


Dead -- but Mr. Universe could bring him back as a shiny, new robot. Oh wait, he's dead, too... Noooooooooo!

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Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:55 PM

WISHIMAY

There will be fire and brimstone and Earth will be destroyed!... in several billion years!----------------------------------------- "Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry


Bumpity ^

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Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:59 PM

WISHIMAY

There will be fire and brimstone and Earth will be destroyed!... in several billion years!----------------------------------------- "Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

..."living with" is a relative term... Perhaps if you used the past tense?



Why, I haven't killed anyone...uh...

I say "Do not look at that body behind the curtain....I AM THE GREAT AND POWERFUL OZ AND..."
Well, now ya know where some of our old-timers went, heh.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:15 AM

SAVEWASH

Now I am learning about scary.


Alive. (How can I go against my moniker?)



We need to keep our heads so we can ... keep our heads.

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Sunday, March 31, 2013 9:13 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


ded

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Monday, May 20, 2013 6:43 AM

WISHIMAY

There will be fire and brimstone and Earth will be destroyed!... in several billion years!----------------------------------------- "Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry


Bumpin up in case anyone missed it...

You only have 'nother month and some to decide if you're mulling it over...

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Monday, May 20, 2013 9:16 AM

BYTEMITE


Actually I honestly think Book is more plot relevant than Wash, so if I had to choose, it would be Book who comes back. Or some technological clone/ doppelganger of Book with not necessarily all of his memories (possibly villainous? And then he could go through a similar transformative experience that he winds up as a preacher).

But I don't really see a good storyline justification for either of them as neither of them are in the good graces of anyone who might have access to technology like that. So unless River suddenly becomes a reality warper or it turns out the movie was just a dream, probably not happening.

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Tuesday, May 21, 2013 1:47 PM

DAVESHAYNE


Dead and alive.

David

'Begone, sugar-free candy antichrist!' - Nathan Rabin.

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

"Don't worry. Captain Hammer will save us." - Penny.

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

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Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:15 PM

MUTT999



Quote:

Originally posted by daveshayne:
Dead and alive.



Schrödinger's space pilot?



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Tuesday, May 21, 2013 3:53 PM

PENNAUSAMIKE


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
SNIP

But I don't really see a good storyline justification for either of them as neither of them are in the good graces of anyone who might have access to technology like that.



Wash can be returned to the Firefly story using
already established in-the-'verse-tech:

Put Wash in River's cryo-box to take him home for burial.
Along the way, Simon informs the crew
that the same medical tech that produced Tracy's hopped up internal organs
("million credit meat" in Tracy's words)
are accessible at Government research facilities.
Using a bit of improvisation and Book's ident card,
they sneak Wash in place of a politico who bumped a deserving recipient
(ala PA's governor Casey who bumped everybody down the list for his transplant).
Alliance bashing, witty dialog and some gunplay ensues.

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Wednesday, May 22, 2013 2:45 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by pennausamike:
Wash can be returned to the Firefly story using
already established in-the-'verse-tech:

Put Wash in River's cryo-box to take him home for burial.
Along the way, Simon informs the crew
that the same medical tech that produced Tracy's hopped up internal organs
("million credit meat" in Tracy's words)
are accessible at Government research facilities.
Using a bit of improvisation and Book's ident card,
they sneak Wash in place of a politico who bumped a deserving recipient
(ala PA's governor Casey who bumped everybody down the list for his transplant).
Alliance bashing, witty dialog and some gunplay ensues.

Too complicated and scientific. There is a simpler way:

I swear by the Blood of Khan, for if Star Trek Into Darkness can resurrect a dead tribble, Firefly can resurrect Wash.

J.J. Abrams' Star Trek movie stories demonstrate there is no need for real science in science fiction. Audiences will believe anything if it is made with enough flash and flare.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:24 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by cdabel:
Too complicated? They used the exact same gimmick in The Message and that didnt seem too "scientific". Tracy had a good plan, he just screwed it up.

Wash's death was faked with the same drug as Tracy's death works for me. The Reavers soaked the wood spear that "killed" Wash in that drug. It is a quick & easy way to get Firefly storytelling going again, but . . . Khan's magic blood reviving dead Kirk in Star Trek Into Darkness implicitly sends Star Trek to some very strange storytelling -- the Federation imprisons 73 supermen and regularly sucks their blood to revive the dead. That is so creepy and that's where the off-screen story goes unless the writers pretend it never happened by forgetting Khan.

Or the writers can make the situation merely bad: Khan and his 72 super-buddies hyper-sleep in Guantanamo forever after because nobody in Star Fleet wants to be responsible for dealing with them.

Or the writers can make it worse: Enterprise needs to have a handy supply of fresh Khan's Magic Blood just in case Kirk gets killed, again. How evil would it be if sickbay keeps Khan around for emergency transfusions?

Let us never think again about the Khan-to-Kirk blood transfusion. It never happened because the implications for future storytelling are too nasty. I don't want Star Trek idealism to become horror.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:41 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by cdabel:
Too complicated? They used the exact same gimmick in The Message and that didnt seem too "scientific". Tracy had a good plan, he just screwed it up.



Tracy's "good plan" involved giving ALL of his organs to organ smugglers and thieves in exchange for incubating counterfeit organs. There was pretty much no way he wasn't going to be cut open and left for dead at the end of that sequence of events even if he hadn't tried to sell the replacement organs to someone else.

All except his brain... I'm guessing they didn't want it.

In terms of saving Wash, I'm smelling a lot of "if" coming from this plan. If he wasn't instantly killed, if technology existed that could revive him even if he was, if they could get him in cryo in time, if they found the owners of that technology who would likely be Blue Sun or the Alliance or some of the most scary and ruthless criminals out there, if they could steal the technology or organs and not end up carcasses strung up in a butcher shop.

I could more buy two's idea that the reavers coated the harpoon with byphodine to reduce any struggling from their victims while dragging them back to their ship to eat (though you'd think reavers would like the struggling), except the harpoon created a three inch hole in Wash's chest cavity. Even with 26th century technology, no one could survive that.

Now, would I LIKE them back, yeah. I don't think it's that likely that Joss has some hidden plan to bring back Wash or Book, not unless they rebooted the series/movie and retconned it.

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Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:06 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

I could more buy two's idea that the reavers coated the harpoon with byphodine to reduce any struggling from their victims while dragging them back to their ship to eat (though you'd think reavers would like the struggling), except the harpoon created a three inch hole in Wash's chest cavity. Even with 26th century technology, no one could survive that.

. . . not unless they rebooted the series/movie and retconned it.

The Reaver spear only "appeared" to hit Wash's heart. In TV and movies there are many spots (unknown to doctors) in human anatomy where bullets and spears can go completely through but don't strike any vital organs. Recall Mal's gut and the Operative's sword. Or Jayne's leg and the Reavers' harpoon.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:08 AM

MOOSE


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
In terms of saving Wash, I'm smelling a lot of "if" coming from this plan. If he wasn't instantly killed, if technology existed that could revive him even if he was, if they could get him in cryo in time, if they found the owners of that technology who would likely be Blue Sun or the Alliance or some of the most scary and ruthless criminals out there, if they could steal the technology or organs and not end up carcasses strung up in a butcher shop.

I could more buy two's idea that the reavers coated the harpoon with byphodine to reduce any struggling from their victims while dragging them back to their ship to eat (though you'd think reavers would like the struggling), except the harpoon created a three inch hole in Wash's chest cavity. Even with 26th century technology, no one could survive that.



Yeah, I'm going with insta-dead.


Even if he wasn't, he most certainly was by the time anyone got to him to help. And that's ignoring the fact that I'm sure the Reavers would of swarmed Serenity...do you want to think about Wash still being alive in that situation?

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Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:13 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:
...do you want to think about Wash still being alive in that situation?

No! Wash was deep asleep from the drugs on the Reaver harpoon. The Reavers didn't notice him because he was not snoring.

I've seen stories of construction workers being impaled on steel reenforcing bar sticking up from concrete. They wiggle like a gaffed fish until the fire department saws through the bar and takes them down. Serenity didn't have a chainsaw so Wash stays in the chair until Mal finds one.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:20 AM

MOOSE


Quote:

Originally posted by two:
No! Wash was deep asleep from the drugs on the Reaver harpoon. The Reavers didn't notice him because he was not snoring.




Alright, you got me there.


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Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:34 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:
Alright, you got me there.


With enough computer power, special effects in the movies can fake a solution to any storytelling problem, no matter how difficult to solve in reality.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:04 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by two:
Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

I could more buy two's idea that the reavers coated the harpoon with byphodine to reduce any struggling from their victims while dragging them back to their ship to eat (though you'd think reavers would like the struggling), except the harpoon created a three inch hole in Wash's chest cavity. Even with 26th century technology, no one could survive that.

. . . not unless they rebooted the series/movie and retconned it.

The Reaver spear only "appeared" to hit Wash's heart. In TV and movies there are many spots (unknown to doctors) in human anatomy where bullets and spears can go completely through but don't strike any vital organs. Recall Mal's gut and the Operative's sword. Or Jayne's leg and the Reavers' harpoon.




That is... So unbelievably hollywood.

Yeah no. Pretty much the only place you can get hit and for sure not bleed out is if you take it in a nice mass of muscle, like the OUTER shoulder (not the inner like where Book was hit, and for once they showed that as a SERIOUS injury because it is!) or maybe the thigh, but that shot can be tricky because of the possible proximity to the groin, which WILL kill someone because of all the blood vessels around there. You could also probably safely shoot for the ass, which is more of an incapacitating wound.

There's a reason why when people are trained to shoot towards the center of mass, they're also trained to only shoot if they are intending to kill.

A three inch impaling wound that goes all the way through the chest will kill someone very fast. It's not a matter of missing vital organs or arteries - you don't have three inches of useless space in your torso, and three inches means you WILL hit something important. A guy surviving being impaled through the chest by a piece of rebar has a lot smaller wound, and that's already long odds as it is.

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Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:19 AM

BYTEMITE


Frankly you're all better arguing that Wash never actually GOT impaled because a wooden harpoon was launched through a window intended to take hits from micrometeorites moving at orbital velocities. That's more impossible than Wash surviving being impaled that way.

Which is why Serenity the movie was just some crazy dream that River had.

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