GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Just something I picked up on watching the pilot last night.

POSTED BY: DIGITALOUTBREAK
UPDATED: Monday, April 5, 2004 09:40
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Saturday, April 3, 2004 5:52 AM

DIGITALOUTBREAK


When Inara is with her client, she describes her world to him. When he asks her why she left, she looks upset/sad for a second before the cut. Could this have something to do with her needle + syringe?

Anyway... back to Out of Gass ;P


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Saturday, April 3, 2004 8:34 AM

SIGMANUNKI


If you are implying that she caught something and had to leave I doubt that.

Remember, she has to goto get a check up once per year to remain a registered companion and they'd probably catch that something there, if indeed she had something. But, when she went to the check up everything was fine.

Joss said something about the needle in the commentary. It was only that he didn't want to give it away because it might be explained in another way later (ie movie).

----
If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!

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Saturday, April 3, 2004 10:18 AM

XION47


In "Bushwacked" Wash said "Oh my god. What can it be? We're all doomed!" Do you think this has anything to do with the fact that he and Mal were tortured in "War Stories"?

Harken: "Seems odd that you would name your ship after a battle you were on the wrong side of."
Mal: "May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."
~ƒireƒly

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Saturday, April 3, 2004 12:22 PM

GHOLA


I saw that also and while I'm not completly sure I think it probably has something to do with her syringe but I'm not sure what. The one thing that I do think it relates to is in Heart of Gold Inara's friend what's her name says she was suprised when she heard Inara left.

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Saturday, April 3, 2004 12:31 PM

GEORDIESTEVE2003


I think her reasons were very personal, and most likely involved a man rather than anything scandalous as that kind of attention would follow a Companion, and a lot of their business relies on their reputation and stature, as special members of the community. My personal belief is that she found the love of her life, and somehow lost him, and that's why she left, never going ahead with her plan of rising to be head of a house, and living it up on the Central planets, its just kinda odd she found another man, but this was so very different, radically opposite to her in so many ways and yet, strangely alike, hence part of the attraction. Just a theory.

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Saturday, April 3, 2004 1:01 PM

LINDYCAT


"Remember, she has to goto get a check up once per year to remain a registered companion"

IMHO that once per year thing was a ruse to get to see a doctor about some life threatening illness she has. The syringe is used to deliver some kind of med to treat the illness.

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Saturday, April 3, 2004 1:33 PM

CHEAPJOE


What struck me as funnay was when they ask her how her checkup went. She says "Same as last year" Not exactly what one whould call an upfront answer.

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Saturday, April 3, 2004 1:47 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by xion47:
In "Bushwacked" Wash said "Oh my god. What can it be? We're all doomed!" Do you think this has anything to do with the fact that he and Mal were tortured in "War Stories"?
ƒireƒly




Huh ? How do you arrive at that ? The fact that Wash is acting silly in Bushwacked has nothing to do w/ Mal and he getting tortured in War Stories. Remember, after the proximity alarm goes off, Wash goes on to say..." who's flying the ship ? Oh, I am." And what ANY of this has to do w/ why Inara left Persiphony has got me confuzzled.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. Worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, April 3, 2004 2:07 PM

BLAZINGBUG


Quote:

Originally posted by CHEAPJOE:
What struck me as funnay was when they ask her how her checkup went. She says "Same as last year" Not exactly what one whould call an upfront answer.



Yeah, I mentioned that in another thread where I proposed Inara is dying, and that's why she gave up her "promising future" among the companions.

The vial and syringe aren't for suicide (we know that); it was her medicine, and her thought was whether there was any point in taking it if the reavers were coming. I think there are other clues within the series as well.

Just to clarify (because this came up on the other thread), I'm just saying Inara's secret is that she is dying, not that Inara would actually have died during the run of the show.

"Wacky fun..."

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Saturday, April 3, 2004 2:41 PM

SIGMANUNKI


I don't know about that. I makes sense to me to require a check up once in awhile for someone in her chosen profession. ie The stamp of approval from the guild is something of a guarantee that the client won't catch anything.

----
If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!

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Saturday, April 3, 2004 9:04 PM

BLAZINGBUG


Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
I don't know about that. I makes sense to me to require a check up once in awhile for someone in her chosen profession. ie The stamp of approval from the guild is something of a guarantee that the client won't catch anything.

Sure, it makes sense. I'm not saying she wasn't going for her check-up; I'm just saying it may be a clue towards her secret.

Here are some of them:

Why even use the check-up in the story? To get them to a core world? Simon's job would have done that anyway.

Her statement, not "fine" or "good" but "Same as last year." And we know that her physical from last year would have been less 4 months before she hooked up with Serenity. It's the only event we know of her past, and it happens to coincide pretty closely with her decision to join Serenity?

It takes 2 days for her to get a "physical" when Simon is able to do a bran scan of River in 2 minutes? Seems a little long.

In Serenity she gives Simon her standard Companion Immunization packets. Immunization only works if taken beforehand. Why hadn't Inara used them? Go to Ariel again, and were shown a scene a where a man almost dies because two medications are mixed. Maybe Inara can't use her immunization packets while on her medication?

The Train Job shows us Bowden's Malady, a non-communicable, treatable, and incurable disease. Just the kind of thing Inara could have and still function as a Companion.

And if you want to go with the "symbolic" clues, when we first meet Inara in Serenity, what else is shown and then behind her during her lines? An hour glass with the Chinese symbol for "short interval."

I think the theory fits the clues and the motivation of the character.

Then again, I could be wrong.

"Wacky fun..."

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Saturday, April 3, 2004 9:26 PM

FIREFLYTHEMOVIE


Quote:

Her statement, not "fine" or "good" but "Same as last year."


I don't see this as evidence at all. It's a very realistic thing someone would say. Physicals are not really a fun thing, but they happen and then they're done. Unless the doctor finds something wrong, I wouldn't say "bad" (I know, you're saying they already found something wrong, but I have a different perspective), and I'd really never say "good". The best I might say would be something like "not nearly as bad as usual."

Quote:

It's the only event we know of her past, and it happens to coincide pretty closely with her decision to join Serenity?


4 months seems like a really long time between finding out something important (like "I'm dying, and only have a few years to live) and making a decision to leave your current life for an entirely different one.

Quote:

It takes 2 days for her to get a "physical" when Simon is able to do a bran scan of River in 2 minutes? Seems a little long.


Sure. All sorts of blood tests take multiple hours to get results on, and that's assuming that the lab gets to them right away. Imaging techniques (CAT, MRI, etc.) tends to go a lot faster. Not quite as fast as the 3D neuroimager, but I think they've continued to get faster over time. In 500 years, they may well be pretty instantaneous.

Quote:

Immunization only works if taken beforehand. Why hadn't Inara used them?


I'm guessing she had them as immunization boosters. For example, I think you're supposed to get a tetanus shot every decade or so, because the immunity you got from the last one has faded over time. For Hepatitis A, to achieve full immunity, you need a series of 3 or 4 injections (of the same stuff) over several months, and the immunity only lasts a few years. Immunizations are supposed to happen on a schedule, and Inara can't be sure that she'll be near well-stocked medical facilities when it's time for her next shot. A booster shot and an initial immunization shot are the same thing (although sometimes in different quantities) so something Inara has for boosters will work for initial immunization, too.

Quote:

And if you want to go with the "symbolic" clues, when we first meet Inara in Serenity, what else is shown and then behind her during her lines? An hour glass with the Chinese symbol for "short interval."


True, except that Joss said in the commentary that the set people came up with that on their own. It's not something he planted as a clue. And I'd be shocked to learn that more than maybe 4-5 writers (and possibly Morena herself, although I doubt it) knew what Joss was planning to do with the character in the long term.

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Saturday, April 3, 2004 11:41 PM

BLAZINGBUG


Quote:

Originally posted by Fireflythemovie:
I don't see this as evidence at all. It's a very realistic thing someone would say. Physicals are not really a fun thing, but they happen and then they're done. Unless the doctor finds something wrong, I wouldn't say "bad" (I know, you're saying they already found something wrong, but I have a different perspective), and I'd really never say "good". The best I might say would be something like "not nearly as bad as usual."."



It does sound realistic, but if Joss wrote, "Oh, still dying," it wouldn't be a clue

And I think you hit on the telling part. You said, "as usual." She said, "Same as last year."

And as I said, why even put it in the show unless it serves some purpose?

Quote:

4 months seems like a really long time between finding out something important (like "I'm dying, and only have a few years to live) and making a decision to leave your current life for an entirely different one.


I just knew it was less than four months because in Train Job she says she has been onboard for eight months. Doing more research, in Bushwhacked, she says it will be a year in a few weeks. There are five episodes between that and Ariel. Starting to sound like she joined up with Serenity almost exactly around the time she would have had her last physical.

Quote:

Sure. All sorts of blood tests take multiple hours to get results on, and that's assuming that the lab gets to them right away. Imaging techniques (CAT, MRI, etc.) tends to go a lot faster. Not quite as fast as the 3D neuroimager, but I think they've continued to get faster over time. In 500 years, they may well be pretty instantaneous.


Okay, so this was agreement, right? Why would a simple physical take 2 whole days when most tests can probably be done instantaneously?

Quote:

I'm guessing she had them as immunization boosters. For example, I think you're supposed to get a tetanus shot every decade or so, because the immunity you got from the last one has faded over time. For Hepatitis A, to achieve full immunity, you need a series of 3 or 4 injections (of the same stuff) over several months, and the immunity only lasts a few years. Immunizations are supposed to happen on a schedule, and Inara can't be sure that she'll be near well-stocked medical facilities when it's time for her next shot. A booster shot and an initial immunization shot are the same thing (although sometimes in different quantities) so something Inara has for boosters will work for initial immunization, too.


Seems like if it was a booster, Inara would say so. We'd have to presume that she knew it was the exact same medicine in the exact same dosage because in any other scenario, it would only make sense to mention they were boosters and not initial immunizations.

Quote:

True, except that Joss said in the commentary that the set people came up with that on their own. It's not something he planted as a clue. And I'd be shocked to learn that more than maybe 4-5 writers (and possibly Morena herself, although I doubt it) knew what Joss was planning to do with the character in the long term.


The set designer did do the Chinese symbol, but he didn't say about the hourglass itself. And only Joss can set the scene where it is over her shoulder ticking away. And I think Joss would think the symbol was especially cool (maybe worth mentioning on the DVD) if it had another meaning the set designers weren't aware of.

But, hey, it could all be meaningless. Nobody knows but Joss.

"Wacky fun..."

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Sunday, April 4, 2004 6:00 AM

SIGMANUNKI


I think that that "short interval" symbol on the hour glass was more of a joke on the part of the set designer given Inara's job. As in, it'll only be a short interval of time till the clients are done *giggle*

----
If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!

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Sunday, April 4, 2004 7:47 AM

FIREFLYTHEMOVIE


Quote:

And as I said, why even put it in the show unless it serves some purpose?


It does serve a purpose. It answers Kaylee's question. Inara doesn't look evasive when she's answering it--she looks a little distracted by what's going on on the ship. I see her answer as being more or less equivalent to "as good as can be expected."

Quote:

I just knew it was less than four months because in Train Job she says she has been onboard for eight months. Doing more research, in Bushwhacked, she says it will be a year in a few weeks. There are five episodes between that and Ariel. Starting to sound like she joined up with Serenity almost exactly around the time she would have had her last physical.


Ok, you're probably right here about the timeline. But I do a lot of things at approximately the same time as my routine annual physical that really have nothing to do with that physical. I still think the routine physical was mostly a plot device to get them onto a core planet, which serves multiple purposes: we get to see a core planet, it gives them a few days with no other obligations in which Simon's plan becomes more practical, rather than being something they have to go out of their way for, it's not the kind of job they ususally do, and Mal avoids the core at all costs. I think he would've said no if they weren't already there.

Quote:

Quote:

Sure. All sorts of blood tests take multiple hours to get results on, and that's assuming that the lab gets to them right away. Imaging techniques (CAT, MRI, etc.) tends to go a lot faster. Not quite as fast as the 3D neuroimager, but I think they've continued to get faster over time. In 500 years, they may well be pretty instantaneous.


Okay, so this was agreement, right? Why would a simple physical take 2 whole days when most tests can probably be done instantaneously?



No, this was disagreement. I said imaging procedures are generally fairly quick, even today, and would presumably just get faster. But blood tests take a minimum of several hours (chemical reactions have always taken a specific amount of time to complete, and always will) assuming the lab jumps on them immediately (which is not how things generally work for a routine physical) and there are plenty of other tests that take longer. For this, Inara wouldn't necessarily have to be in the doctor's office for 2 days straight, but she wouldn't be able to leave the planet until the results came back in case results were inconclusive or they needed a follow-up test.

Quote:

Seems like if it was a booster, Inara would say so. We'd have to presume that she knew it was the exact same medicine in the exact same dosage because in any other scenario, it would only make sense to mention they were boosters and not initial immunizations.


She called it an "immunization kit". Which doesn't imply anything about whether they're for boosters or not, I was just infering. And assuming that they've given her the syringe and the medicine, she presumably has some training with respect to when and how much she should give herself, and what it is. Simon, being a doctor, wouldn't need this explained. And the doses don't have to be exactly the same, since there are markings on syringes to indicate the volume that's been pulled into the syringe. You'd pretty much never use an entire vial in a single dose, anyway.

Quote:

The set designer did do the Chinese symbol, but he didn't say about the hourglass itself. And only Joss can set the scene where it is over her shoulder ticking away. And I think Joss would think the symbol was especially cool (maybe worth mentioning on the DVD) if it had another meaning the set designers weren't aware of.


I think SigmaNunki addressed this pretty well, although I saw it as commentary on the amount of time she allows her clients to have with her, rather than a comment on their sexual prowess. Joss pointed it out as the attention to detail paid by everyone on the crew, specifically the props people. He (and Tim, and Nathan, and Alan, etc.) mention all sorts of things in the commentary that are just cool little things that people did on the shoow that they were surprised and impressed by. If it wasn't in the script (or added at the last minute by a director in-the-know), I don't think it can count as a clue.

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Sunday, April 4, 2004 8:32 AM

KURUKAMI


You know, an odd thought just occurred to me. In "Ariel", Inara says she needs to have her annual checkup -- that it's Companion rules. But the weird thing that caught me is this -- who's going to argue with her and say, "Hey, wait a second... that's not true!"

Thus, her purpose in visiting the main worlds could be entirely different.

Additionally, I find myself thinking of things said on the commentary for each episode. In the pilot, Joss (I believe) indicated that the syringe was neither a recreational drug nor a weapon. In "Out of Gas", Inara comments to Simon that she doesn't want to die at all (and the overlaying comment from the director indicates that particular line is important).

I guess I just found myself wondering whether her stop off at Ariel had more to do with the syringe business than with an "official Guild checkup". Thoughts? Opinions?

"Sir, I would like to gingerly point out that it is difficult for someone to be gently reassuring when they're holding three and a half feet of sharpened steel."

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Sunday, April 4, 2004 3:18 PM

BLAZINGBUG


Quote:

It does serve a purpose. It answers Kaylee's question. Inara doesn't look evasive when she's answering it--she looks a little distracted by what's going on on the ship. I see her answer as being more or less equivalent to "as good as can be expected."


Sorry, I was unclear. I wasn't referring to the statement but to the whole Physical subplot. However, you basically answered that below. Very well, I might add.


Quote:

Ok, you're probably right here about the timeline. But I do a lot of things at approximately the same time as my routine annual physical that really have nothing to do with that physical. I still think the routine physical was mostly a plot device to get them onto a core planet, which serves multiple purposes: we get to see a core planet, it gives them a few days with no other obligations in which Simon's plan becomes more practical, rather than being something they have to go out of their way for, it's not the kind of job they ususally do, and Mal avoids the core at all costs. I think he would've said no if they weren't already there.


Very likely. However it is the only event in Inara's past before joining Serenity that we are aware of. I think it has significance.


Quote:

]No, this was disagreement. I said imaging procedures are generally fairly quick, even today, and would presumably just get faster. But blood tests take a minimum of several hours (chemical reactions have always taken a specific amount of time to complete, and always will) assuming the lab jumps on them immediately (which is not how things generally work for a routine physical) and there are plenty of other tests that take longer. For this, Inara wouldn't necessarily have to be in the doctor's office for 2 days straight, but she wouldn't be able to leave the planet until the results came back in case results were inconclusive or they needed a follow-up test.


Actually, standard blood tests aren't made up of chemical reactions. It's a process of counting the various elements in the blood. Generally this takes a long time because it has to be done visually through a microscope, but even now we have computerized systems that can do the counting. In fact, if Simon can do internal surgery on Serenity, the infirmary systems would have to be able to pull this off almost instantly.

Now, there are blood tests that involve chemical reactions, but there are two important points. Chemical reactions can be sped up through the introduction of a catalyst, and those reactions are generally used to determine the presence of a non-visible substance in the blood, but these substances would be visible given a suffiently advanced microscope (such as a current electron microscope) and so could be run through a computerized scanner as above.

But really I don't the writers put this much thought into this situation.

I just think it is a little inconsistent to do a brain scan in 2 minutes and a physical takes 2 days. That could be a clue, or it could be an inconsistency, or it could be the way things are.

Quote:

She called it an "immunization kit". Which doesn't imply anything about whether they're for boosters or not, I was just infering. And assuming that they've given her the syringe and the medicine, she presumably has some training with respect to when and how much she should give herself, and what it is. Simon, being a doctor, wouldn't need this explained. And the doses don't have to be exactly the same, since there are markings on syringes to indicate the volume that's been pulled into the syringe. You'd pretty much never use an entire vial in a single dose, anyway.


Possible, but it gets back to inferences and assumptions. All we really know is that it is for immunization in some way. In fact, perhaps a better counter-inference (is that a word?) to my theory is that the "immunization package" isn't for her but for her clients. Knowing they are immunized would give them a sense of safety.

Quote:

I think SigmaNunki addressed this pretty well, although I saw it as commentary on the amount of time she allows her clients to have with her, rather than a comment on their sexual prowess. Joss pointed it out as the attention to detail paid by everyone on the crew, specifically the props people. He (and Tim, and Nathan, and Alan, etc.) mention all sorts of things in the commentary that are just cool little things that people did on the shoow that they were surprised and impressed by. If it wasn't in the script (or added at the last minute by a director in-the-know), I don't think it can count as a clue.


I think you may be missing my point. The set designers added the chinese symbol to the hourglass, but there is nothing about them adding the hourglass itself. And I'm really talking about the way the scene was shot by Joss. Sure, we have the cut to the hourglass, but if you look at the scene again, you'll see that when Inara is talking, you can see the hourglass ticking away over her shoulder in the background.

And the hourglass could simply be indicative of her job, but I just happen to think that if you put all of these things together, a pattern forms. But sometimes when you think a pattern is there, you'll see one even if there isn't. If I look long enough, maybe I'll see the boat in the magic picture.

"Wacky fun..."

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Sunday, April 4, 2004 4:03 PM

SIGMANUNKI


There is the likely-hood that Book would've voice some disagreement if it were a lie. He has displayed an eerie amount of knowledge about a few things. But, I guess we'll all just have to wait for the movie to see what's what in Joss's mind

----
"If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!" -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River

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Sunday, April 4, 2004 4:12 PM

SHEPHERDSCOTT


Okay, so I've got it figured out...

It is actually a disease that causes Reavers! You turn into a Reaver after picking up some space sickness. Most people don't realize they have it until it is too late.

Inara contracted the Reaver disease, and it was detected when she went in for her physical. The doctor didn't want to tell her, so she said to the doctor: "You can just tell me, I'm a big girl." He gave her a regular dosage of medicine to suppress the onset of the disease. Inara then left her fancy brothel to head out into the fringes of space, so that she'd be far away from civilization when the inevitable happened.

When the Reavers were going to board Serenity, Inara looked at her syringe because she thought that if she didn't take the medicine she could turn into a Reaver and join them.

It's *so* simple!

* * *

Do the job. Get paid. Keep flying.

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Monday, April 5, 2004 1:42 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
There is the likely-hood that Book would've voice some disagreement if it were a lie. He has displayed an eerie amount of knowledge about a few things.


If you are referring to whether Inara's physical exam story was legit, remember that Book was not on the ship at that time, but had been dropped off at an abbey for some reason.




wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Monday, April 5, 2004 7:01 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:
If you are referring to whether Inara's physical exam story was legit, remember that Book was not on the ship at that time, but had been dropped off at an abbey for some reason.



True, but he would've known the itinerary of the ship as it was no secret where Inara was going. So, I think that Inara's and Book's relationship would've taken a hit afterwards. And since there is no evidence of that...

Maybe I'll reware-watch series with all this in mind when it comes back to me (damn being friendly and lending it out :))

Food for thought though


But, I doubt if it is a Reaver causing disease. Mal mentioned what would cause someone to become like that once (forget which ep.). It was all about psychological factors.

----
"If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!" -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River

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Monday, April 5, 2004 9:40 AM

GNOC


Quote:


In "Out of Gas", Inara comments to Simon that she doesn't want to die at all (and the overlaying comment from the director indicates that particular line is important).



I picked up on this (without the commentary.. I have to get to that.. ) The look on her face after he says he does not want to die on the ship and her reaction to not wanting to die at all... very powerful. Plus, she wanted Mal to come with them and commented that he did not need to die alone, possibly reflecting her inner thoughts. That might be why she is so comfortable on Serenity... she has people that can be there when she dies. It seems like the Companion business would be lonely.

Also, not sure if anyone knows this, but Serenity is a huge AA term.. the basis for peace and serenity.. before getting treatment, your life is out of control.. they even have the serenity prayer. Maybe she is in recovery! (not meant to put down AA at all)

gnoc

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