March for Our Lives - A Powerful Message by SHINYGOODGUY

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

6ix

I know you have an issue with psychotropic drugs.

I believe we are experiencing the outwash of the autism spectrum epidemic. Such a profound increase in autism spectrum numbers is surely accompanied by a plethora of related dysfunction.

Not everyone is born normal and then messed up by doctors. Some of us are born suffering, from things for which there is no cure.

There's comfort in finding someone to blame. But it may not be appropriate.

So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 1:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
6ix

I know you have an issue with psychotropic drugs.

I believe we are experiencing the outwash of the autism spectrum epidemic. Such a profound increase in autism spectrum numbers is surely accompanied by a plethora of related dysfunction.

Not everyone is born normal and then messed up by doctors. Some of us are born suffering, from things for which there is no cure.

There's comfort in finding someone to blame. But it may not be appropriate.

So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

You think past generations had less non-normal offspring?

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 2:50 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Either that, or the less hardy died early in greater numbers, or both.

I think that both are going on.

The problem I think is that we're now soaked in 80,000 or so chemicals that didn't exist even when I was born. And by 'soaked' I'm talking in relative terms since biological levels of concern are ppb to ppt. These chemicals have their effects at crucial stages of embryonic development, so that as early as at birth the brains of children who will go on to be autistic are structurally different than the brains of children who won't. At that point, it's clear that autism isn't due to frigid mothers, vaccines, or other childhood causes. ETA What's left is prenatal. Since I've seen autism in children born to parents from Ethiopia, mainland China, and Mexico, as well as American-born parents, and statistics confirm this, it looks to me there is something about HERE that's the problem. Maybe it's the neo-nics and glyphosate in the produce, or the ractopamine in the beef. Or less intentionally, the pdbe's in house dust, or pcb's in butter.

So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 8:47 AM

Quote:
I know you have an issue with psychotropic drugs.

Yep. Almost as much as I have a problem with soul-stealing opioids being okay in a country where weed isn't legal. (Gee... I wonder why. It wouldn't be because anybody could grow their own weed next to the tomatoes in their garden for free, could it?)

Quote:
I believe we are experiencing the outwash of the autism spectrum epidemic. Such a profound increase in autism spectrum numbers is surely accompanied by a plethora of related dysfunction.

There's comfort in finding someone to blame. But it may not be appropriate.

Fair enough...

Anybody have a list of the mass shooters and whether or not they were on psychotropic drugs.

Also, does anybody have a list of mass shooters and whether or not they were on the autism spectrum and to what degree?

From that data we could probably learn a lot.

Nobody ever asks questions like these though because everybody is always too busy exhausting themselves on the issue of gun control for a few weeks before the next big thing steals away their short attention spans and diverts their attention long enough that when it happens again they go right back to the gun control debate that goes nowhere.

Is this an en masse example of the Definition of Insanity at work?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 9:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Either that, or the less hardy died early in greater numbers, or both.

I think that both are going on.

The problem I think is that we're now soaked in 80,000 or so chemicals that didn't exist even when I was born. And by 'soaked' I'm talking in relative terms since biological levels of concern are ppb to ppt. These chemicals have their effects at crucial stages of embryonic development, so that as early as at birth the brains of children who will go on to be autistic are structurally different than the brains of children who won't. At that point, it's clear that autism isn't due to frigid mothers, vaccines, or other childhood causes. ETA What's left is prenatal. Since I've seen autism in children born to parents from Ethiopia, mainland China, and Mexico, as well as American-born parents, and statistics confirm this, it looks to me there is something about HERE that's the problem. Maybe it's the neo-nics and glyphosate in the produce, or the ractopamine in the beef. Or less intentionally, the pdbe's in house dust, or pcb's in butter.

So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

It might be something in the water as well.

Even though there are "guidelines" that state that you shouldn't flush your pills down the toilet, plenty of people do.

But that doesn't really matter though, does it? Aren't a lot of these chemicals things that our body doesn't break down in the first place? Wouldn't just putting them in our body and then naturally going to the bathroom release them into the public water table all the same? I would assume with my very limited knowledge of chemistry that the human body doesn't break down Lithium for example.

I'm asking you here Kiki, because I really don't know. I've heard that these elements make it into the public water regardless, but being that you are in the Stem fields and I am not, you'd likely be much more knowledgeable about it than I am.

I do know that even the best city water reclamation facilities don't get everything out of the water. Every year I get a statement from my locality that talks about the public water table and shows that the PP(whatever) is under Federal guidelines and is "safe" to drink. There's really no telling how many other people's pharmaceutical drugs I'm drinking though every time I pour myself a glass of water or make a cup of coffee.

Sweet, sweet Lithium. How do I love thee...

"I'm so happy, cause today I've found my friends... in my head."

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 12:32 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Wouldn't just putting them in our body and then naturally going to the bathroom release them into the public water table all the same?" One's body does break down most pharmaceuticals to a certain level. Lithium is an exception, because it's an element, and the only way to break it down is to put it through a nuclear reactor and change it into something else. But in general, yes drugs - both legal and illicit - are excreted from the body and show up in sewage. And sewage treatment doesn't remove all of them. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/only-half-of-drugs-removed-
by-sewage-treatment/

There are also other organic chemicals (containing carbons attached to other carbons), either intentionally made or created as waste during industrial processes that are EXTREMELY stable. Their title by category is 'persistent organic pollutants'. They can hang out in the environment and not be broken down by bacteria, fungi, sunlight/ UV, heat, cold, or other natural processes. And we, like other animals, don't break them down either. Many of these are fat soluble. Generally, the liver takes fat soluble substances and changes them so they can dissolve in water. They then float away in the bloodstream and get filtered out by the kidneys, and we urinate them away. But not the persistent organic pollutants. They can't be broken down enough and so they accumulate in the fat in our bodies over our lifetimes. These have been shown to disrupt our neurochemistry, our endocrine system (including sex hormones) or both. https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/persistent
-organic-pollutant

There are other elements (in the same category as lithium) in the environment with very wide distribution that cause neurological dysfunction. One of them is lead, widely used in paints and gasoline; the other is mercury, released by burning coal and through other industrial processes - like making high fructose corn syrup.

And then there's the stuff that directly goes into our food production on purpose, like atrazine, neonicotinoids, and ractopamine - because it makes somebody more money, and who doesn't want a side of chemicals with every bite?

So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 6:54 PM

Wonderful. We're all dosed. :)

I had assumed as much, but wanted to hear from somebody who knew more about it rather than just go off of second hand stuff I'd heard before.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 7:17 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Not just us - the entire planet and all living things.

Everyone into the sewage pool!

So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 8:47 PM

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=7&tid=62257&mid=104827
1#1048271

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
I know you have an issue with psychotropic drugs.
Yep. Almost as much as I have a problem with soul-stealing opioids being okay in a country where weed isn't legal. (Gee... I wonder why. It wouldn't be because anybody could grow their own weed next to the tomatoes in their garden for free, could it?)
Quote:
I believe we are experiencing the outwash of the autism spectrum epidemic. Such a profound increase in autism spectrum numbers is surely accompanied by a plethora of related dysfunction.

There's comfort in finding someone to blame. But it may not be appropriate.
Fair enough...

Anybody have a list of the mass shooters and whether or not they were on psychotropic drugs.

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 9:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
I know you have an issue with psychotropic drugs.
Yep. Almost as much as I have a problem with soul-stealing opioids being okay in a country where weed isn't legal. (Gee... I wonder why. It wouldn't be because anybody could grow their own weed next to the tomatoes in their garden for free, could it?)
Quote:
I believe we are experiencing the outwash of the autism spectrum epidemic. Such a profound increase in autism spectrum numbers is surely accompanied by a plethora of related dysfunction.

There's comfort in finding someone to blame. But it may not be appropriate.
Fair enough...

Anybody have a list of the mass shooters and whether or not they were on psychotropic drugs.

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=7&tid=62257&mid=104827
1#1048271

Nice. I thought I remembered you making a thread about that.

Now we need to get a list of people who were on the spectrum to compare it to.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 9:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Not just us - the entire planet and all living things.

Everyone into the sewage pool!

So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

Geez... I need a pill to cure my depression brought about by my newfound knowledge that I'm already high on everybody else's depression meds.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 9:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Not just us - the entire planet and all living things.

Everyone into the sewage pool!

So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

Do you feel other animals are affected by the drugs made to alter human brain chemistry? Only mammals? Only primates? Only fauna?
Has this produced detectable results? Could something like Chronic Wasting Disease be caused by such drugs polluting the water/food source/environment? Could flora be a cleanser/filter, or would drug water be drawn into the plant, and then consumed by herbivores?

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 9:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
I know you have an issue with psychotropic drugs.
Yep. Almost as much as I have a problem with soul-stealing opioids being okay in a country where weed isn't legal. (Gee... I wonder why. It wouldn't be because anybody could grow their own weed next to the tomatoes in their garden for free, could it?)
Quote:
I believe we are experiencing the outwash of the autism spectrum epidemic. Such a profound increase in autism spectrum numbers is surely accompanied by a plethora of related dysfunction.

There's comfort in finding someone to blame. But it may not be appropriate.
Fair enough...

Anybody have a list of the mass shooters and whether or not they were on psychotropic drugs.

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=7&tid=62257&mid=104827
1#1048271
Nice. I thought I remembered you making a thread about that.

Now we need to get a list of people who were on the spectrum to compare it to.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Spectrum data would be even more difficult to obtain.
That is not a complete list, or even an attempt at a complete list. Much of that was not easy to find as is.
If I were to add a column or 2, ID likely populate with number of injured - many of those have a dozen or 2 injured, but only a couple dead. Amazing that Subway Bomb didn't have dead.
Or else a column with weapons. Rope, machetes, vehicles, knives, airplanes, swords, biting teeth, arson, duct tape, axes, bombs, arrows, hatchets, even some firearms. Weapons that I don't recall reading of in America incidents: grenades, cannon.

All of those innocent children murdered by their mothers is disheartening. Those Doctors should be thrown to the pits of hell.

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Tuesday, April 10, 2018 10:03 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=7&tid=62257&mid=104827
1#1048271 Eric Holder mentioned a report that an estimated 90% (at least) of Mass murders from 2009-2013 were from these drugs.

cite?

Quote:
Charles Whitman

brain tumor

Quote:
Mary Feurst, July 1982 - antidepressants

not found

Quote:
Tyrone Mitchell (28), Los Angeles CA, February 1984 - habitual PCP

Quote:
A toxicological study of Mitchell's body fluids postmortem by the Los Angeles County coroner found no PCP or other illegal drugs, and only a small amount of alcohol, .03%, less than a third of the legal limit

I've hardly started on your list and I've eliminated most of your examples. I don't have time to check your 'facts', but it's not looking promising. Aside from which, since you failed to provide links, it's hard to track the information back.

It looks like what you've done is start with your conclusion then piece together random claims, gossip, and straight-up misinformation to support it.

So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Wednesday, April 11, 2018 1:29 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Do you feel other animals are affected by the drugs made to alter human brain chemistry? Only mammals? Only primates? Only fauna?
Has this produced detectable results? Could something like Chronic Wasting Disease be caused by such drugs polluting the water/food source/environment? Could flora be a cleanser/filter, or would drug water could potentially be affected by human drugs in the environment.

Other animals are probably affected by human drugs in the environment. But it's speculative at this point.
However, significant effects are documented for persistent organic pollutants, and for herbicides and pesticides across species as diverse as whales, frogs, fish, alligators, and birds. Effects include eggs being produced in the testes of fish and frogs, male alligators becoming female, birds showing cross-sex behavior, and whales being sterile due to heavy pollutant loads, for example.

Chronic wasting disease is caused by a prion, which is a mis-folded protein, related to mad cow disease, scrapie in sheep, and kuru, Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, and fatal familial insomnia in people.

"or would drug water could potentially be affected" - ???

So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Wednesday, April 11, 2018 5:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
Do you feel other animals are affected by the drugs made to alter human brain chemistry? Only mammals? Only primates? Only fauna?
Has this produced detectable results? Could something like Chronic Wasting Disease be caused by such drugs polluting the water/food source/environment? Could flora be a cleanser/filter, or would drug water could potentially be affected by human drugs in the environment.
Other animals are probably affected by human drugs in the environment. But it's speculative at this point.
However, significant effects are documented for persistent organic pollutants, and for herbicides and pesticides across species as diverse as whales, frogs, fish, alligators, and birds. Effects include eggs being produced in the testes of fish and frogs, male alligators becoming female, birds showing cross-sex behavior, and whales being sterile due to heavy pollutant loads, for example.

Chronic wasting disease is caused by a prion, which is a mis-folded protein, related to mad cow disease, scrapie in sheep, and kuru, Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, and fatal familial insomnia in people.

"or would drug water could potentially be affected" - ???

So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

That last part does not look like a quote from me.

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Wednesday, April 11, 2018 7:36 AM