REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

North Korea

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Saturday, July 7, 2018 15:38
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Thursday, March 8, 2018 3:19 PM

THGRRI



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Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:09 PM

THGRRI


North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un says he is eager to meet President Trump, and President Trump says he would meet Kim by May to achieve permanent denuclearization, South Korean official says.
T







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Friday, March 9, 2018 9:47 AM

THGRRI


This came out of nowhere. It appears Trump suggested to the South Koreans this should happen. He spoke to no one before hand. No advisors or anyone knowledgeable about North Korea to see if this was a good idea. He just set it up.

Bam, North Korea jumped at it. Trump had said the North had to denuclearize before talks. I guess he changed his mind.

Don't misunderstand, I want a miracle here. I am rooting Trump succeeds. I just don't' see it. He can't even negotiate successfully with a porn star. So far every foreign leader he has meet with has cleaned his clock.

T

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Friday, March 9, 2018 12:29 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Don't misunderstand, I want a miracle here. I am rooting Trump succeeds. I just don't' see it. He can't even negotiate successfully with a porn star. So far every foreign leader he has meet with has cleaned his clock.

A meeting between Trump and Kim Jong-un could be a major opportunity—if Trump actually prepares for it.
By FRED KAPLAN, MARCH 09, 2018 11:44 AM
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/a-meeting-between-trump-an
d-kim-jong-un-could-be-a-major-opportunityif-trump-actually-prepares-for-it.html


The upcoming summit between President Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong-un is, without question, a good thing. Meeting jaw to jaw is better than war, as Churchill said, and, until now, Trump seemed headed toward war.

But beyond this quite significant fact, expectations should be kept low.

One problem is that the two leaders are going into the meeting with conflicting premises. Trump thinks Kim is caving to the pressure of U.S. sanctions and threats. Kim thinks Trump is caving to the reality of North Korean nukes. Both men are probably right, to some degree. But it’s hard to see how these talks can produce a lasting peace if both leaders think they have the upper hand at the outset—and, therefore, think any deal must be struck on their terms.

That’s the other problem: Their terms—their definitions of a successful deal—are also in conflict.

Kim wants to be recognized as a world leader, a peer who can deter attacks on his homeland, and that means being a leader with a nuclear arsenal. Trump wants Kim to dismantle that arsenal.

Kim has already won half of the contest by getting the president of the United States to agree to meet him in the first place. To a degree that Trump may not realize, that in itself bestows upon Kim an international recognition and legitimacy that his father, Kim Jong-il, and his grandfather Kim Il-Sung both tried, but failed, to attain for decades.

This doesn’t mean Trump should have declined the offer. But now that the game is on, he has to train for it. Most presidents, faced with this risk and opportunity, would have their staffs spend the next two months preparing the best briefing book ever written. They would invite to the White House, for one-on-one chats or group seminars, every diplomat who has ever negotiated with North Koreans, the best historians who have chronicled U.S.–North Korean relations, the best regional specialists who have parsed the lessons to be learned from past talks.

Already the problem should be clear. Trump doesn’t read briefing books or books of any sort. Most of the diplomats who sat down with North Koreans did so under Democratic presidents named Clinton and Obama, who are all—the presidents and their diplomats—barred from this White House.

Even if they weren’t barred, Trump generally thinks that he has nothing to learn from history. As far as he’s concerned, his predecessors failed, so he has nothing to learn from their experiences. No one thought his “fire and fury” threats would produce results, and now look what’s happening. Trump’s refrain all along has been that he alone can do the things he sets out to do, and in his mind, the very fact of this summit probably affirms this belief.

And again, to some degree, Trump’s bellicosity probably did bring Kim to the table—but only to a degree. It’s worth noting that after Trump’s “fire and fury” remarks of last August, Kim tested three short-range ballistic missiles, fired two medium-range missiles over Japan, test launched an intercontinental ballistic missile capable of hitting U.S. territory, and exploded a hydrogen bomb.

One could argue, in other words, that Trump’s growing bellicosity accelerated Kim’s quest to acquire a nuclear arsenal—to claim the status of a nuclear state—and that Kim unleashed his “charm offensive” only after the quest had been fulfilled. So let’s give both leaders “credit” for coming to this moment, even if they’re unlikely to grant it to each other.

In one sense, Trump and Kim might be on the right track in bypassing the dozens of low-level meetings that usually take place before the leaders meet and, instead, leaping straight to the summit. The 1994 Agreed Framework, which froze North Korea’s plutonium program for nearly a decade, was jump-started when Clinton sent former President Jimmy Carter to Pyongyang in an effort to lower tensions. Carter and Kim Il-Sung drew up the outlines of what became the Agreed Framework, with no permission, and plenty of initial suspicion, from Clinton.

Toward the end of Clinton’s term in office, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and her staff spent long hours with Kim Jong-il (by then, Kim Il-Sung had died) hammering out an accord to ban North Korea from developing ballistic missile technology. Those who sat in on the talks later described Kim as very active and knowledgeable. The two sides came very close to producing a deal. Kim wanted Clinton to come wrap up the final details in person. Clinton chose instead to spend his last weeks in office trying to strike a Middle East peace accord, which went nowhere. George W. Bush’s incoming secretary of state, Colin Powell, publicly said he would resume those talks where Clinton left off—only to be upbraided by Bush himself and forced to renounce his interest.

But here’s the difference between then and now. Before their meetings with the two previous Kims, Carter and Albright immersed themselves in the issues. More important still, they had an agenda. I suspect that the current Kim and his foreign ministry also have a very clear agenda; after all, they’ve been waiting for this moment, in Kim’s case for years, in the ministry’s for decades. There is absolutely no sign that Trump has any agenda, other than the vague desire to “denuke” North Korea with no plan for how to get from here to there. In other words, on this score too, Trump will likely come to the meeting at a disadvantage.

And while Trump may be sitting down with Kim face-to-face, he is not the only player in the overall game. South Korean President Moon Jae-in is another big winner in the contest so far. Moon is the one who engineered this moment, from the Olympics on. Moon and his Democratic Party have long been committed to a policy of “engagement” with North Korea. Kim’s nuclear tests strained this policy, while Trump’s belligerent rhetoric raised the specter of war to levels unseen in decades. The prospect of a summit in May—of talks between the North Korean leader and an American president for the first time ever—calms this fervor and allows for the re-emergence of engagement. But Moon regards himself as more than a mere observer of this new landscape. He is likely to meet with Kim before Trump does, and he may set the agenda—especially because the Americans don’t have one and the American president doesn’t seem to think he needs one.

Meanwhile, if Trump wants this meeting to accomplish anything of value, he needs to do the following:

First, appoint an envoy to South Korea. (It is amazing that, more than a year into his term, he has yet to do this.)

Second, have his staff bring in the experts on Korea. Swallow hard if this means letting in the occasional Democrat.

Third (and this is a directive more for Trump’s advisers), do not let this meeting take place in Pyongyang. Kim would put on the most extravagant show in the history of the world, and Trump would be so impressed by the welcome that he’d likely embrace the “Hermit King” as his new best friend and concede who knows what at the bargaining table. The meeting should be held in the most boring neutral city in the world.

Fourth (a related point), Trump should not be allowed to meet with Kim all alone. At least one senior aide should be in the room along with a note taker and a State Department translator.

Fifth, the National Security Council should draw up a list of goals—three things, say, that Trump should try to get from this meeting, three things that he’d be willing to offer in exchange for a true pledge to freeze or dismantle the nukes, and three things that the North Koreans are likely to push for but that Trump should reject at all cost.

The NSC should also lay out a road map of where this relationship goes next, tempering expectations for the ultimate deal. I suspect that, just as Trump thought that his very presence in the Oval Office would make America great again, he also thinks his single summit with Kim will unleash a new era of peace, security, and a nuclear-free peninsula. It is hard for even Trump’s closest advisers to disabuse him of anything, but they really need to try hard on this one.

Finally, Trump needs to visit President Moon and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe before and after this trip—and Trump’s aides need to brief their counterparts on everything Trump and Kim discuss—in order to assure them that, whatever comes out of this improbable summit, their security interests aren’t being compromised. The leaders of China, Russia, the European Union, and the U.N. Security Council will also have to be brought in somehow, as they will play a role in enforcing whatever comes of it—or, if nothing comes of it, Trump needs to explain why, so they don’t abandon the existing sanctions.

This is a potentially exciting moment and a perilous one too. Kim understands that it’s both. The question is whether Trump does and whether he can bring himself to do what needs to be done—before, during, and after the event—to keep it from being a mere spectacle and ego trip.


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, March 9, 2018 12:49 PM

THGRRI


It's should be obvious to all Kim sees what's going on here with Trump. He knows like we do Trump is under tremendous pressure here. That Trump needs to steer the topic away from himself. I believe Kim is using this to his advantage.

So far Trump has handicapped America around the world by making one mistake after another. Is this his last stop?


T

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Friday, March 9, 2018 1:01 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
It's should be obvious to all Kim sees what's going on here with Trump. He knows like we do Trump is under tremendous pressure here. That Trump needs to steer the topic away from himself. I believe Kim is using this to his advantage.

So far Trump has handicapped America around the world by making one mistake after another. Is this his last stop?

State Department point man on North Korea, Joseph Yun, retired last Friday, March 2. If Trump is serious, he needs to call this man and ask him to come back to work until at least after the Trump meeting with N Korea.

The State Department’s point man on North Korea, Joseph Yun, will leave his post on Friday, amid glimmers of hope that Pyongyang might finally be willing to sit down for talks with Washington.

Yun, 63, is retiring as special representative for North Korea policy and deputy assistant secretary for Korea and Japan after more than three decades of service.

His departure reflects widespread frustration within the State Department at diplomats’ relative lack of power in the Trump administration, according to someone familiar with Yun’s thinking.

It will leave another gaping hole in the United States’ staffing on Korean issues. Washington has still not nominated an ambassador to South Korea, 13 months into the Trump administration. Victor Cha had been in the running for the job, but the administration abruptly scrapped his candidacy last month.

Yun confirmed that he would be retiring and that Friday would be his last day.

Yun, a strong advocate of engagement with North Korea, has been arguing in favor of dialogue with Pyongyang during the last year of increased tensions.

Still, his efforts to promote dialogue with North Korea have been stymied by a president who has threatened to rain “fire and fury” on the North Korean leader, whom Trump has derided as “little rocket man.”

Many Foreign Service officers have expressed frustration with the Trump administration’s unwillingness to listen to the State Department.

www.washingtonpost.com/world/state-department-point-man-on-north-korea
-joe-yun-to-retire-friday/2018/02/26/9a201136-1b62-11e8-8a2c-1a6665f59e95_story.html?utm_term=.8cf11fd83954


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, March 9, 2018 1:27 PM

THGRRI


I would love to hear Yun in his own words state if he thinks this was a smart move on Trumps part second. If he does stay he will have to parse his words carefully.


T

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Friday, March 9, 2018 1:42 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
I would love to hear Yun in his own words state if he thinks this was a smart move on Trumps part second. If he does stay he will have to parse his words carefully.

None of the credit should go to Trump. All of it should go to this South Korean, speaking at the White House, who talked Trump into doing it:

Remarks by Republic of Korea National Security Advisor Chung Eui-Yong
Issued on: March 8, 2018, 7:11 P.M. EST
www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-republic-korea-nationa
l-security-advisor-chung-eui-yong
/

CHUNG: Good evening. Today, I had the privilege of briefing President Trump on my recent visit to Pyongyang, North Korea. I’d like to thank President Trump, the Vice President, and his wonderful national security team, including my close friend, General McMaster.

I explained to President Trump that his leadership and his maximum pressure policy, together with international solidarity, brought us to this juncture. I expressed President Moon Jae-in’s personal gratitude for President Trump’s leadership.

I told President Trump that, in our meeting, North Korean leader Kim Jong-un said he is committed to denuclearization. Kim pledged that North Korea will refrain from any further nuclear or missile tests. He understands that the routine joint military exercises between the Republic of Korea and the United States must continue. And he expressed his eagerness to meet President Trump as soon as possible.

President Trump appreciated the briefing and said he would meet Kim Jong-un by May to achieve permanent denuclearization.

The Republic of Korea, along with the United States, Japan, and our many partners around the world remain fully and resolutely committed to the complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. Along with President Trump, we are optimistic about continuing a diplomatic process to test the possibility of a peaceful resolution.

The Republic of Korea, the United States, and our partners stand together in insisting that we not repeat the mistakes of the past, and that the pressure will continue until North Korea matches its words with concrete actions.

Thank you.

END

7:13 P.M. EST

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Friday, March 9, 2018 5:37 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
I would love to hear Yun in his own words state if he thinks this was a smart move on Trumps part second. If he does stay he will have to parse his words carefully.

None of the credit should go to Trump. All of it should go to this South Korean, speaking at the White House, who talked Trump into doing it:

Remarks by Republic of Korea National Security Advisor Chung Eui-Yong
Issued on: March 8, 2018, 7:11 P.M. EST
www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-republic-korea-nationa
l-security-advisor-chung-eui-yong
/

CHUNG: Good evening. Today, I had the privilege of briefing President Trump on my recent visit to Pyongyang, North Korea. I’d like to thank President Trump, the Vice President, and his wonderful national security team, including my close friend, General McMaster.

I explained to President Trump that his leadership and his maximum pressure policy, together with international solidarity, brought us to this juncture. I expressed President Moon Jae-in’s personal gratitude for President Trump’s leadership.

I told President Trump that, in our meeting, North Korean leader Kim Jong-un said he is committed to denuclearization. Kim pledged that North Korea will refrain from any further nuclear or missile tests. He understands that the routine joint military exercises between the Republic of Korea and the United States must continue. And he expressed his eagerness to meet President Trump as soon as possible.

President Trump appreciated the briefing and said he would meet Kim Jong-un by May to achieve permanent denuclearization.

The Republic of Korea, along with the United States, Japan, and our many partners around the world remain fully and resolutely committed to the complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. Along with President Trump, we are optimistic about continuing a diplomatic process to test the possibility of a peaceful resolution.

The Republic of Korea, the United States, and our partners stand together in insisting that we not repeat the mistakes of the past, and that the pressure will continue until North Korea matches its words with concrete actions.

Thank you.

END

7:13 P.M. EST



They way I hear it Trump was not supposed to meet with the South Koreans until the next day. That when Trump heard they were there attending a different meeting he went to them. He is desperate to change the news cycle IMHO. At any rate, I hear Trump is now backing up a bit.


President Trump is open to meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un to discuss his nuclear program, but only under certain conditions, the White House said Friday.

"We’re not going to have this meeting take place until we see concrete actions that match the words and the rhetoric of North Korea,” White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders told reporters.


http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-essential-washington-updates
-white-house-puts-conditions-on-trump-1520628277-htmlstory.html




T

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Friday, March 9, 2018 6:09 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


lol. you guys are a constant source of amusement. Thanks for the laughs. :)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, March 10, 2018 9:24 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
It's should be obvious to all Kim sees what's going on here with Trump. He knows like we do Trump is under tremendous pressure here. That Trump needs to steer the topic away from himself. I believe Kim is using this to his advantage.

So far Trump has handicapped America around the world by making one mistake after another. Is this his last stop?



Yanno, it's funny, but when I listen to different sources I get two entirely different pictures of the Trump administration. Yours ... the Lib/Dem one ... paints Trump as an almost tragic figure ... increasingly isolated and paranoid, driven to a King Lear madness by the gap between his innate capacities and the complexities of office. Any successes - such as the potential upcoming meeting - are accidental, and Trump didn't create them but he can sure fuck them up.

Another source - the X22 Report - paints Trump as an almost preternaturally devious man, one who is mocked for idiocy and mental disability ... a kind of modern-day Claudius* ... as he works his way towards achieving his goals. The tweets are just distractions which cause the deep state to focus in one direction while progress is made in other directions.

I'd give the X22 report zero credibility, but Trump has managed to pull a few rabbits out of various hats, and Trump has also (quietly and without fanfare) gotten several laws and/or Executive Orders in place which not only allow him to freeze the assets of those who are suspected of human rights crimes (such as trafficking people) but also given greater authority to court-martial. According to THIS theory, the meeting between Kim and Trump has already taken place ... in China.

Obviously, the two can't both be true, and quite possibly neither one is correct.

* Emperor Claudius
Quote:

Claudius’ disabilities may have given the impression that he could be easily manipulated, but once in power, he showed himself to be cleverer than previously believed. He deftly avoided a confrontation with the Roman senate, and purchased the loyalty of the Praetorian Guard with a massive 15,000-sesterce per man donative. His ailments appeared to improve after he took the throne, and he later claimed that he had only pretended to be dimwitted to protect himself.
https://www.history.com/news/8-things-you-may-not-know-about-emperor-c
laudius



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Saturday, March 10, 2018 9:33 AM

THGRRI


X22 report, really sig. No wonder your insights are so fucked up. Little green men making videos on youtube. You should have coffee with rappy. He is duped by that shit as well.

I would think by now you would understand the posters here. To realize that shit won't fly with the ones who mostly disagree with you. Do you have the capacity to evolve or are you stuck in the world of ignorance?


T

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Saturday, March 10, 2018 9:40 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Yanno, it's funny, but when I listen to different sources I get two entirely different pictures of the Trump administration.

Did you consider the picture from North Korea's viewpoint? With Trump agreeing to meet with Kim, North Korea has already achieved a victory. Kim is looking for legitimacy. Trump just gave it to him as a presumed co-equal on the world stage.

At the conservative website The Federalist, Ed Krayewski said that “it’s possible” for Trump’s experience in running beauty pageants and professional wrestling to play a positive role in negotiations with Pyongyang.

“It’s not so preposterous to think of diplomacy as a bit like reality television,” he wrote on Friday. “Different countries have different priorities and national security interests, but they’re operating on an international stage with an international audience, and the pressure to “get to yes” that can come with that.” http://thefederalist.com/2018/03/09/trump-and-kim-jong-uns-meeting-dip
lomatic-win-for-the-president
/

Rep. Luke Messer (R-IN) said, “If North Korea disarms, President Trump’s Nobel Peace Prize would be well deserved.” Some how, the Prize doesn’t seem likely.

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Saturday, March 10, 2018 10:00 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


The reason a US president has never met a North Korean leader is that the US and North Korea continue to be at war. In international diplomacy, the leader-to-leader meeting is the highest level of commitment available. No prior White House would send the president into a summit that has not been pre-scripted with guaranteed results. Should there be no agreement, there is no face-saving blame to be put on State Department negotiators, and little room left for future diplomacy between North Korea and America. And while the White House says this meeting is not a negotiation, that only raises the question of what the president is even doing there.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, March 10, 2018 3:23 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Did you consider the picture from North Korea's viewpoint? With Trump agreeing to meet with Kim, North Korea has already achieved a victory. Kim is looking for legitimacy. Trump just gave it to him as a presumed co-equal on the world stage. - SECOND
It's very possible that Kim is portraying this as some sort of victory domestically, making himself an even MORE beloved leader to his people.

WHO CARES what happens in NK domestically? It's not our business whether Kim gets any benefit out of this, and fretting about it - as you seem to be doing - is getting in the way of us getting something positive from this. After all, isn't the important thing to de-nuclearize the Korean Peninsula, remove a potential nuclear threat and flashpoint, negotiate a peace so that we can remove our troops and bases (reducing our military footprint and spending overall), and help the South and North achieve international relations? What are OUR interests, and how can we best achieve them?

Don't be cutting off your nose to spite your face, SECOND.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Saturday, March 10, 2018 3:29 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


No matter what Trump did, Second and T would have said that it was the wrong move.

If it turns out to be the wrong move, they will say "I told you so".

If it turns out to be the right move, they will say that Trump deserves no credit for it.

Don't bother playing chess with people who rig the game in such a way that they're guaranteed to win no matter what Sigs.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, March 10, 2018 3:30 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
No matter what Trump did, Second and T would have said that it was the wrong move.

If it turns out to be the wrong move, they will say "I told you so".

If it turns out to be the right move, they will say that Trump deserves no credit for it.

Don't bother playing chess with people who rig the game in such a way that they're guaranteed to win no matter what Sigs.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



True dat.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Saturday, March 10, 2018 3:54 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
No matter what Trump did, Second and T would have said that it was the wrong move.

If it turns out to be the wrong move, they will say "I told you so".

If it turns out to be the right move, they will say that Trump deserves no credit for it.

Don't bother playing chess with people who rig the game in such a way that they're guaranteed to win no matter what Sigs.




So what does he deserve credit for so far, oh great sage? Go ahead, use the google.

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Saturday, March 10, 2018 3:57 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

* Emperor Claudius
Quote:

Claudius’ disabilities may have given the impression that he could be easily manipulated, but once in power, he showed himself to be cleverer than previously believed. He deftly avoided a confrontation with the Roman senate, and purchased the loyalty of the Praetorian Guard with a massive 15,000-sesterce per man donative. His ailments appeared to improve after he took the throne, and he later claimed that he had only pretended to be dimwitted to protect himself.
https://www.history.com/news/8-things-you-may-not-know-about-emperor-c
laudius



After "Lillie", "I Claudius" was one of the best early *BBC productions.

*British Broadcast Company

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Saturday, March 10, 2018 4:08 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
The reason a US president has never met a North Korean leader is that the US and North Korea continue to be at war. In international diplomacy, the leader-to-leader meeting is the highest level of commitment available. No prior White House would send the president into a summit that has not been pre-scripted with guaranteed results. Should there be no agreement, there is no face-saving blame to be put on State Department negotiators, and little room left for future diplomacy between North Korea and America. And while the White House says this meeting is not a negotiation, that only raises the question of what the president is even doing there.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



People seem to forget that Kim - crazy wild ass spoiled brat that he is - is still human. Sometimes we forget or don't consider, what the US looks like to the rest of the world. Trump of course is a television personality, one we can only imagine Kim knows much like Dennis Rodman. The effed up world of TV says he's a celebrity, special.
I actually think this might be an instance where Trump might do well. In a way Trump and Kim are very much alike, and they have their bat shit crazy in common. There are NO expectations. He's not going to be shot at while jumping into a chopper and getting the heck out of NK, so the worst that will happen is he'll make "at least he tried" points. I think that's exactly what he's banking on.

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Saturday, March 10, 2018 4:42 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Did you consider the picture from North Korea's viewpoint? With Trump agreeing to meet with Kim, North Korea has already achieved a victory. Kim is looking for legitimacy. Trump just gave it to him as a presumed co-equal on the world stage. - SECOND
It's very possible that Kim is portraying this as some sort of victory domestically, making himself an even MORE beloved leader to his people.

WHO CARES what happens in NK domestically? It's not our business whether Kim gets any benefit out of this, and fretting about it - as you seem to be doing - is getting in the way of us getting something positive from this. After all, isn't the important thing to de-nuclearize the Korean Peninsula, remove a potential nuclear threat and flashpoint, negotiate a peace so that we can remove our troops and bases (reducing our military footprint and spending overall), and help the South and North achieve international relations? What are OUR interests, and how can we best achieve them?

Don't be cutting off your nose to spite your face, SECOND.

If American Presidents' criteria for wanting to de-nuke a country is that the country has H-bombs and intercontinental ballistic missiles and missile launching submarines of the Triomphant class and Arihant class, the Presidents would have been trying to de-nuke France and India.

Signym, can you think of the reason why France, India, and North Korea don't all three have sanctions against them because of their nukes? What is special about the government of North Korea that makes it so different, at least to American Presidents, from France or India? It is not the exotic cuisine. When you finally figure it out, Signym, then you will know why Trump should not be strengthening the hold of the third generation of Kims on North Korea by personally going to North Korea to negotiate. Negotiation is what the State Department is for.

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Saturday, March 10, 2018 6:17 PM

OONJERAH


The Korean War (1950-1953) was never settled.
Militarily, it's a stalemate.

We're not at war with France or India.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Saturday, March 10, 2018 6:59 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
The Korean War (1950-1953) was never settled.
Militarily, it's a stalemate.

We're not at war with France or India.

Why was it never settled? Because President Truman did not want to admit he lost a war. 36,574 dead Americans was all Truman was willing to sacrifice. Kim Il Sung sacrificed 406,000 military, 600,000 civilian, and he was not gonna stop. And Harry S was replaced with Eisenhower, who also did not want to admit America lost a war. And so it has continued even until 2018, with the Kim family very willing to sacrifice another 406,000 military, 600,000 civilian dead. And American Presidents are willing to sacrifice nothing, nothing at all.
www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/world/asia/korean-war-fast-facts/index.html

If there will ever be peace on the Korean peninsula, South Korea needs to work with what it has got: Hyundai and KIA cars, Samsung TVs and smartphones, LG refrigerators and microwaves, and too much food, so much that the South Koreans are getting fat. South Korea needs to fatten up the North Koreans and teach them to drive a car.

In exchange, all Kim has to do is not fire more missiles nor explode more nukes. North and South Korea will again be one country, once the details are worked out and there are Samsung and Hyundai factories in North Korea. If North and South Vietnam can be one country, it could happen to Korea. The two Koreas only need to cooperate. The North sells missiles to the South and the South sells cars to the North and everybody is happy, except Washington DC and Beijing and Tokyo, about South Korea’s new weapons. But it won’t be any worse than France and India having nukes and intercontinental ballistic missles.

North v South Korea (2013)
Country N.Korea S.Korea
Population 24,720,407 48,955,203
GDP - per capita (PPP), $1,800 $32,400

www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2013/apr/08/south-korea-v-north-kor
ea-compared


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, March 10, 2018 7:10 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Trump's got this

You're welcome.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, March 10, 2018 7:16 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Trump's got this

You're welcome.

The time for you to gloat, AURaptor, is after the SUCCESSFUL meeting between Trump and North Korea. The meeting might not happen. It might end in a stalemate, the state of American/North Korean relations since July 1953.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, March 11, 2018 5:43 AM

OONJERAH


I rather hope that Trump doesn't have time for the meeting
    ... and he sends a charming diplomat instead.
That Kim saves great face & is very happy.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Sunday, March 11, 2018 7:14 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
The Korean War (1950-1953) was never settled.
Militarily, it's a stalemate.

Militarily, we never signed a peace treaty with Germany either. Look it up. The Germans surrendered, but we never signed a peace treaty with them. That's why we still have huge bases in Germany, and they have a vestigial armed forces.

Quote:

We're not at war with France or India. - OONJ

Why was it never settled? Because President Truman did not want to admit he lost a war. 36,574 dead Americans was all Truman was willing to sacrifice. Kim Il Sung sacrificed 406,000 military, 600,000 civilian, and he was not gonna stop. And Harry S was replaced with Eisenhower, who also did not want to admit America lost a war. And so it has continued even until 2018, with the Kim family very willing to sacrifice another 406,000 military, 600,000 civilian dead. And American Presidents are willing to sacrifice nothing, nothing at all.

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF SUCH SACRIFICE?

I think it's time YOU asked yourself the questions, SECOND: What are America's important interests, and how can we best achieve them?

Let's start with American existential interests- i.e. those interests which, if not achieved, will allow the destruction of American - and work outwards from there.

Quote:

If there will ever be peace on the Korean peninsula, South Korea needs to work with what it has got: Hyundai and KIA cars, Samsung TVs and smartphones, LG refrigerators and microwaves, and too much food, so much that the South Koreans are getting fat. South Korea needs to fatten up the North Koreans and teach them to drive a car.

In exchange, all Kim has to do is not fire more missiles nor explode more nukes. North and South Korea will again be one country, once the details are worked out and there are Samsung and Hyundai factories in North Korea. If North and South Vietnam can be one country, it could happen to Korea. The two Koreas only need to cooperate. The North sells missiles to the South and the South sells cars to the North and everybody is happy, except Washington DC and Beijing and Tokyo, about South Korea’s new weapons. But it won’t be any worse than France and India having nukes and intercontinental ballistic missles.- SECOND

Open relations with S Korea would represent an existential threat to NK. Not gonna happen.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, March 11, 2018 8:06 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
I rather hope that Trump doesn't have time for the meeting
    ... and he sends a charming diplomat instead.
That Kim saves great face & is very happy.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...



Kim's happiness means nothing to me.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, March 11, 2018 8:46 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF SUCH SACRIFICE?

I think it's time YOU asked yourself the questions, SECOND: What are America's important interests, and how can we best achieve them?

Let's start with American existential interests- i.e. those interests which, if not achieved, will allow the destruction of American - and work outwards from there.

America does not have a purpose. It does not have an interest. It is a third of a billion people pulling in all directions. Unsurprisingly, not much gets accomplished. It is 50 states governors doing what they can. Why would you think it could have a single purpose? America isn't purposeful like an ant colony with a queen. It is more like 50 ant colonies of all different and competing species, or 3,000 at the county level, or 20,000 ant colonies at the city and town level. It will be conflict after conflict. There will not be "A Purpose" for a country organized like that.

You can see that more clearly by comparing the decision making of an American Congress plus the President to decision making by the Kim Dynasty. When a Kim gives an order, people either obey or they die. A government with a Kim at the top will have a purpose. It is whatever the Kim wants, the Kim gets. There are stories about different Kims at different times over the decades having their political enemies murdered. When was the last time a President murdered a Bureaucrat, a General, or a member of his family? When was the last time a President started a famine that kills a million Americans? It has been longer than the last time a Kim did those things. A Kim has "A Purpose". A Congress or a Trump don't. All America has hundreds of millions of conflicting interests.

Would a Kim say the following? “Who knows what’s going to happen?” said Trump, who added that if the meeting takes place, “I may leave fast or we may sit down and make the greatest deal for the world.” Kim will have a clear purpose when he goes into a meeting with Trump. Trump won't. It will be all hot Trump air. Anything he promises or agrees to will have to be ratified by Congress, which will argue for months then come to a compromise or not. Who knows with those purposeless people with their conflicting interests? If Kim makes a decision in that meeting with Trump, nobody in North Korea will tell him to modify it.

www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles/trump-says-north-korea-
talks-could-fail-or-bring-greatest-deal-idUSKCN1GM0TU


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, March 11, 2018 9:40 AM

THGRRI


American has given the world a templet that others can recreate. Ideals of liberty, equality, and the right to pursue one's own happiness.


T

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Sunday, March 11, 2018 11:22 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF SUCH SACRIFICE?

I think it's time YOU asked yourself the questions, SECOND: What are America's important interests, and how can we best achieve them?

Let's start with American existential interests- i.e. those interests which, if not achieved, will allow the destruction of American - and work outwards from there.

America does not have a purpose. It does not have an interest. It is a third of a billion people pulling in all directions. Unsurprisingly, not much gets accomplished. It is 50 states governors doing what they can. Why would you think it could have a single purpose? America isn't purposeful like an ant colony with a queen. It is more like 50 ant colonies of all different and competing species, or 3,000 at the county level, or 20,000 ant colonies at the city and town level. It will be conflict after conflict. There will not be "A Purpose" for a country organized like that.

You can see that more clearly by comparing the decision making of an American Congress plus the President to decision making by the Kim Dynasty. When a Kim gives an order, people either obey or they die. A government with a Kim at the top will have a purpose. It is whatever the Kim wants, the Kim gets. There are stories about different Kims at different times over the decades having their political enemies murdered. When was the last time a President murdered a Bureaucrat, a General, or a member of his family? When was the last time a President started a famine that kills a million Americans? It has been longer than the last time a Kim did those things. A Kim has "A Purpose". A Congress or a Trump don't. All America has hundreds of millions of conflicting interests.

Would a Kim say the following? “Who knows what’s going to happen?” said Trump, who added that if the meeting takes place, “I may leave fast or we may sit down and make the greatest deal for the world.” Kim will have a clear purpose when he goes into a meeting with Trump. Trump won't. It will be all hot Trump air. Anything he promises or agrees to will have to be ratified by Congress, which will argue for months then come to a compromise or not. Who knows with those purposeless people with their conflicting interests? If Kim makes a decision in that meeting with Trump, nobody in North Korea will tell him to modify it.

www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles/trump-says-north-korea-
talks-could-fail-or-bring-greatest-deal-idUSKCN1GM0TU


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



Sound's more and more like Second is the Communist I've suspected he is.

A fan of the Borg, are ya?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, March 11, 2018 1:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF SUCH SACRIFICE?
I think it's time YOU asked yourself the questions, SECOND: What are America's important interests, and how can we best achieve them?

Let's start with American existential interests- i.e. those interests which, if not achieved, will allow the destruction of America (ed) - and work outwards from there. - SIGNY

America does not have a purpose. - SECOND

That wasn't my question. There is a difference between "purpose" and "interest"

Quote:

It does not have an interest. It is a third of a billion people pulling in all directions.- SECOND
Hmm... but MOST of them are pulling in the direction of at least trying to stay alive, so it's not as random as you portray.

Quote:

Unsurprisingly, not much gets accomplished. - SECOND
A lot of work is being done. Things are made, people are healed, children are educated (or at least warehoused); yes, much of our work is trivial but still, a lot of people manage to keep body and soul together, take care of their families, and join their communities. I guess you don't think the physical survival of so many people is much of an accomplishment? Wow, you really must hate Americans!

Quote:

It is 50 states governors doing what they can. Why would you think it could have a single purpose? America isn't purposeful like an ant colony with a queen. It is more like 50 ant colonies of all different and competing species, or 3,000 at the county level, or 20,000 ant colonies at the city and town level. It will be conflict after conflict. There will not be "A Purpose" for a country organized like that.- SECOND
But that's not my question. My question is ... what are Americans' INTERESTS? Plus, who said it had to be only one? Certainly not me! I've explicitly said that there are more than one.

So, what is coming thru sounds to me like you despise Americans for being random, "purposeless" creatures who will sacrifice nothing for a larger, unified purpose. Am I correct? Or is this a total misread of your emotion?

Quote:

You can see that more clearly by comparing the decision making of an American Congress plus the President to decision making by the Kim Dynasty. When a Kim gives an order, people either obey or they die. A government with a Kim at the top will have a purpose. It is whatever the Kim wants, the Kim gets. There are stories about different Kims at different times over the decades having their political enemies murdered. When was the last time a President murdered a Bureaucrat, a General, or a member of his family?- SECOND
Seth Rich maybe?

Quote:

When was the last time a President started a famine that kills a million Americans? - SECOND
First of all, the famine was because of OUR sanctions, not because of Kim. So is starving a million people a good thing?

Hmm... that last time an American President starved a million people?? Well... HW Bush pushed for - and got- sanctions on Iraq which starved a million people, half a million of which were children, and Madeline Albright said it was "worth it". Was that done without purpose?

Quote:

It has been longer than the last time a Kim did those things.- SECOND
False premise.

Quote:

... All America has hundreds of millions of conflicting interests.- SECOND
Not true. Most of us have the SAME interests.

Quote:

Would a Kim say the following? “Who knows what’s going to happen?” said Trump, who added that if the meeting takes place, “I may leave fast or we may sit down and make the greatest deal for the world.” Kim will have a clear purpose when he goes into a meeting with Trump. Trump won't. It will be all hot Trump air. Anything he promises or agrees to will have to be ratified by Congress, which will argue for months then come to a compromise or not. Who knows with those purposeless people with their conflicting interests? If Kim makes a decision in that meeting with Trump, nobody in North Korea will tell him to modify it. - SECOND
As usual, you pretend to know what you can't possibly know. Plus, you managed to avoid the question.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, March 11, 2018 2:42 PM

THGRRI


She just can't do it. Sig blames America instead of North Korea for it's plight. Fuck you comrade troll.

T

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Sunday, March 11, 2018 4:24 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
She just can't do it. Sig blames America instead of North Korea for it's plight. Fuck you comrade troll. - THUGR

Well, my main point was that SECOND sound almost ... jealous ... of NK's unity of purpose, and seems to despise America's individualism.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, March 11, 2018 4:41 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I don't know if jealous is the right word, but there sure did seem to be a lot of admiration for how and why NK does things in Second's post.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, March 12, 2018 6:38 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I don't know if jealous is the right word, but there sure did seem to be a lot of admiration for how and why NK does things in Second's post.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Can I repeat a statistic from this page to answer? Very obviously North Korea has a different interest or purpose than South Korea. Maybe 6ix can see it. Maybe not:

North v South Korea (2013)
Country N.Korea S.Korea
Population 24,720,407 48,955,203
GDP - per capita (PPP), $1,800 $32,400

www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2013/apr/08/south-korea-v-north-kor
ea-compared


North Korea's purpose is to keep the Kim Dynasty in control. At the other extreme, South Korea is very much like America and has millions of purposes, many of them in conflict, most involving money. An abundance of purpose and turmoil. Funny how North Korea has never had turmoil over money.

South Koreans have one purpose that overrides all the others: keep North Korea out of the South. That is definitely a life and death interest for South Koreans, but I am not sure for Trump. Sadly for South Koreans, now that Trump is President and can't focus his brain for more than two minutes before changing the subject, South Koreans still depend on America to provide the nukes to offset North Korea's army and nukes. South Koreans do not want Trump to nuke the North because Northerners are family. They want Trump to keep the Northerners on their side of the border and they don't know if Trump has the brains to do that without killing millions of South Koreans. It is such a problem when the Policeman of the World has gotten so stupid that he (now that Trump replaced retired policeman Obama) might kill you when you call the policeman for help to stop a burglary of your home.

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Monday, March 12, 2018 8:21 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I wonder what all the innocent brown people who were accidentally killed by Policeman Obama's drone strikes would have to say about him.


Obviously North and South Korea have different interests, and of course South Korea mirrors the US quite a bit since they are a Democratic society. It gets a little strange when talking about the economy of SK though. Their economic system is Capitalist, their social structure is Socialist and their mindsets are Communist.


You seem to love the idea of a country that has one common goal and purpose and a hive like mentality. Are you a Communist, or are you suggesting that America would be much better off if we were to suffer a large threat and use that to band together?

I don't find either idea appealing. We already lived through the second one after 9/11 during GWB's administration and nothing good at all came out of that.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, March 12, 2018 11:23 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I wonder what all the innocent brown people who were accidentally killed by Policeman Obama's drone strikes would have to say about him.

Obama did not kill them "accidentally". The Pentagon killed them with their “Ever step on ants and never give it another thought?” In a secluded room at an airbase in Nevada, young men who don’t give a shit hold the power of life and death over people thousands of miles away. Can you blame Obama for a stupid punk of a Republican at a drone’s computer screen not giving a shit? The airmen would be flying the Predators over a village in the tribal areas of Pakistan, say, when a series of smaller black shadows would appear across their screens – telling them that kids were at the scene. They called them “fun-sized terrorists”. The people who would vote for Trump, with all the "reasons" I've heard and read them give, are not reasonable people to trust with life or death decisions.
www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/18/life-as-a-drone-pilot-creech-air
-force-base-nevada


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Obviously North and South Korea have different interests, and of course South Korea mirrors the US quite a bit since they are a Democratic society. It gets a little strange when talking about the economy of SK though. Their economic system is Capitalist, their social structure is Socialist and their mindsets are Communist.


You seem to love the idea of a country that has one common goal and purpose and a hive like mentality. Are you a Communist, or are you suggesting that America would be much better off if we were to suffer a large threat and use that to band together?

I don't find either idea appealing. We already lived through the second one after 9/11 during GWB's administration and nothing good at all came out of that.

You caught me in the mood to answer. I lived in El Lago for years. The Lyndon B Johnson Space Center, named for the President, is 3 miles away. El Lago had astronauts who have gone to the moon, but now it’s just a glorious memory. www.ellago-tx.com/gallery.aspx?AID=4

Why did the space program become only a jobs program, a way to make money? Because America does not have a purpose or interest other than making money, except this one time about going to the moon. And that was only because of the passing phenomenon of LBJ. The whole purpose of NASA switched to money, not space, once LBJ was out of the White House.

It has been a hobby of mine to think of a way for huge science-fictional space projects to be finished. Projects that will never turn a profit, but cost trillions. This is impossible in America or in Firefly’s Alliance where everything is about profit. America’s Moon project was never completed, for example. America went to the moon, but never did the next step of a moon base. Or all the other next steps. There wasn’t any profit. The Alliance never completed the next step: return to Earth and terraform it to again make it inhabitable for humans. Centuries have passed, but the Alliance never returned to Earth because there wasn’t any profit.

What kind of government would arise to make its purpose resettlement of millions on Earth? The dynamics would be a North Korea vs America relationship between that government and the Alliance. The Alliance would be hostile to any competing government building starships for moving a whole civilization and all that machinery back to Earth.

A comic story covering that government competing with the Alliance, I think, could be a whole series of Firefly comic books, one per month, for at least 100 months. The crew of Serenity would be right in the middle of it. The ending is when Serenity with crew becomes the cargo on a Mars bound starship. It would be a much better story then the one in the existing comics. It would also be a more entertaining story than how North Korea built intercontinental ballistic missiles and H-bombs.


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, March 12, 2018 4:32 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I wonder what all the innocent brown people who were accidentally killed by Policeman Obama's drone strikes would have to say about him.

Obama did not kill them "accidentally". The Pentagon killed them with their “Ever step on ants and never give it another thought?” In a secluded room at an airbase in Nevada, young men who don’t give a shit hold the power of life and death over people thousands of miles away. Can you blame Obama for a stupid punk of a Republican at a drone’s computer screen not giving a shit? The airmen would be flying the Predators over a village in the tribal areas of Pakistan, say, when a series of smaller black shadows would appear across their screens – telling them that kids were at the scene. They called them “fun-sized terrorists”. The people who would vote for Trump, with all the "reasons" I've heard and read them give, are not reasonable people to trust with life or death decisions.



Okay. I'll play your game.

Why did neither of two things happen here?

1. Obama didn't make this stop, or even bring any attention to it. It seems like the man who got a Nobel Peace Prize would have every reason to speak out against this while it was happening under his watch.

2. The media didn't say a damn thing about it. I've got to hear every conspiracy theorist link to Russia and what Trump's diet is on a daily basis, but while Obama was president these drone strikes happened all the time and didn't get any coverage.

Quote:

You caught me in the mood to answer. I lived in El Lago for years. The Lyndon B Johnson Space Center, named for the President, is 3 miles away. El Lago had astronauts who have gone to the moon, but now it’s just a glorious memory. www.ellago-tx.com/gallery.aspx?AID=4

Why did the space program become only a jobs program, a way to make money? Because America does not have a purpose or interest other than making money, except this one time about going to the moon. And that was only because of the passing phenomenon of LBJ. The whole purpose of NASA switched to money, not space, once LBJ was out of the White House.

It has been a hobby of mine to think of a way for huge science-fictional space projects to be finished. Projects that will never turn a profit, but cost trillions. This is impossible in America or in Firefly’s Alliance where everything is about profit. America’s Moon project was never completed, for example. America went to the moon, but never did the next step of a moon base. Or all the other next steps. There wasn’t any profit. The Alliance never completed the next step: return to Earth and terraform it to again make it inhabitable for humans. Centuries have passed, but the Alliance never returned to Earth because there wasn’t any profit.

What kind of government would arise to make its purpose resettlement of millions on Earth? The dynamics would be a North Korea vs America relationship between that government and the Alliance. The Alliance would be hostile to any competing government building starships for moving a whole civilization and all that machinery back to Earth.

A comic story covering that government competing with the Alliance, I think, could be a whole series of Firefly comic books, one per month, for at least 100 months. The crew of Serenity would be right in the middle of it. The ending is when Serenity with crew becomes the cargo on a Mars bound starship. It would be a much better story then the one in the existing comics. It would also be a more entertaining story than how North Korea built intercontinental ballistic missiles and H-bombs.




So... the question is how to monetize and incentivize space exploration.

The Democrats are extremely good at thinking up and enacting tax schemes to manipulate individual behavior (cigarette taxes, etc.).

Come up with a way to do the opposite.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, March 13, 2018 5:18 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

So... the question is how to monetize and incentivize space exploration.

The Democrats are extremely good at thinking up and enacting tax schemes to manipulate individual behavior (cigarette taxes, etc.).

Come up with a way to do the opposite.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

A poor as dirt country like North Korea has built intercontinental ballistic missiles and H-bombs. It didn't do it for the money, but rather to glorify its Dear Leader. If North Korea was motivated by money, then nothing would have happened. They would have simply given up and surrendered to the South Koreans, kind of like East Germany surrendered to West Germans, and then North Korea would have become vastly richer, same as happened to East Germany.

As far as monetizing space exploration, that will only take you so far. SpaceX wants to land man on Mars. SpaceX might land a few people on Mars in a suicide mission, but Elon Musk won't keep sending millions of people and billions of tons of supplies to Mars, establishing his self supporting colony that could build its own space ships, because he will run out of money.

What Musk needs is for America to pay him to do it, after he has shown that his technology works. America is not crazy like North Korea. If a Mars colony would glorify Dear Leader, North Korea would colonize Mars and to hell with the cost. America won't. America will not pay what it will take to settle Mars. America might pay for a few missions, after Musk does the first one, just for America's prestige, but that's it, unless there are secret vaults under the dust of Mars full of billion year old artifacts that make Congress greedy for more Martian antiques.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_states_of_Germany#Economy

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Tuesday, March 13, 2018 5:24 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Don't ask American taxpayers to pay for it.

I'm sure if you talk to Disney about the idea of making Disneyland Mars and show proof that it could be done then you might be on something though.


The 99% with none of the money have enough to worry about just surviving day to day. This is a rich people problem. You should get to work on this Second.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, March 13, 2018 5:46 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Don't ask American taxpayers to pay for it.

I'm sure if you talk to Disney about the idea of making Disneyland Mars and show proof that it could be done then you might be on something though.


The 99% with none of the money have enough to worry about just surviving day to day. This is a rich people problem. You should get to work on this Second.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Until some North Korean invents Star Trek Warp Drive or discovers Star Wars hyperspace for the glorification of Dear Leader, humanity will not be building starships. Sub-light speed is too expensive for American Capitalism. If going to the stars is being done to make profit, it won't be done. Even in Firefly, humanity went to the stars only because Earth was destroyed. I and Joss Whedon can't think of a more powerful motivation. It wasn't done for the money.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, March 13, 2018 6:25 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Well, great.

You'll forgive me if I don't pray for the destruction of Earth and/or America being turned into a Dictatorship with a President and God as commander in our future so we can have our own Fireflys.


Meanwhile, I hope you enjoy that ridiculous amount of cash you've got that you do no good with because reasons.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, March 13, 2018 7:42 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, March 14, 2018 10:35 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


North Korea Builds Missile Monuments Before Trump Meet

www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/north-korea-builds-missile-monuments-befo
re-trump-meet/ar-BBKbhA5?ocid=spartandhp


North Korea has apparently begun building monuments to the recently developed intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) that placed the U.S. within the country's trajectory for the first time ever, according to satellite imagery and expert analysis.

David Schmerler, a research associate at the Monterey, California-based James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies, shared on Saturday overhead photographs of what appeared to be a monument being constructed at the site of the November Hwasong-15 ICBM launch and two more at the site of both of Hwasong-14's launches in July. The tests were the culmination of decades of military development initiated by Kim's grandfather, inherited by his father and rapidly accelerated since Kim took over in 2011. . . .

Kim and Trump's unpredictable approaches to diplomacy have made it difficult for observers to ascertain their motives. Both of their governments have steadfastly refused to make concessions, but South Korea has claimed Kim was ready to freeze his missile launches and ultimately denuclearize completely if his country's security could be guaranteed. North Korea has previously indicated its nuclear weapons were only necessary to defend against a hostile U.S. government.

These weapons of mass destruction are a vital talking point in North Korean propaganda, as well as part of Kim's national defense strategy. Kim has yet to formally announce a shift in his nuclear-armed stance, as the U.S. reportedly scheduled the resumption of military drills on the Korean Peninsula and Trump suddenly removed Rex Tillerson in exchange for a more hardline CIA Director Mike Pompeo as head of the State Department.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, March 14, 2018 11:11 AM

THGRRI


North Korea looks to it's ally Putin. They've seen him threaten Nukes many times in attempts to back people up. Kim isn't giving up shit.

Kim knows if his people find out that the rest of the world, and in the south live so much better than they, he is dead meat. They're eating tree bark, grass and paper. Physically they are several inches shorter than their counterparts in the south.

We've been down this road with North Korea before.

T

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Wednesday, March 14, 2018 12:03 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
North Korea looks to it's ally Putin. They've seen him threaten Nukes many times in attempts to back people up. Kim isn't giving up shit.

Kim knows if his people find out that the rest of the world, and in the south live so much better than they, he is dead meat. They're eating tree bark, grass and paper. Physically they are several inches shorter than their counterparts in the south.

We've been down this road with North Korea before.

1994: North Korea and the United States sign an agreement. Among other stipulations, North Korea pledges to freeze and eventually dismantle its old, graphite-moderated nuclear reactors in exchange for international aid to build two new light-water nuclear reactors. The GOP would NOT pay for those reactors. The South Koreans started work, but didn't finish because they were expecting to be paid. Maybe the South Korean government should have stepped in and paid the contractor when the GOP wouldn't, but it didn't. Bush definitely killed those nuclear reactors with his Axis of Evil speech in 2002. In 2003, January 10 - North Korea withdraws from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. In February, North Korea reactivated a five-megawatt nuclear reactor at its Yongbyon facility, capable of producing plutonium for weapons.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, March 16, 2018 1:24 PM

THGRRI


North Korea nuclear reactors show new signs of activity

New satellite imagery examined by Western experts suggests North Korea has begun preliminary testing of one of its nuclear reactors at the Yongbyon research facility. The disclosure comes as preparations get underway for the summit between North Korean leader Kim Jong Un and South Korean President Moon Jae-in next month -- and ahead of Kim's planned meeting with President Trump in May.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/north-korea-nuclear-reactors-show
-new-signs-of-activity/ar-BBKhdWI?li=AA4Zpp&ocid=spartanntp



T

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Friday, March 16, 2018 1:33 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


This sounds like a cheering section for Kim.

You guys getting that desperate to find enemies of Trump?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, March 23, 2018 1:08 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Trump has chosen John Bolton to be his new national security advisor, he announced via tweet yesterday. Bolton penned a column on Feb 28th for the Wall Street Journal entitled “The Legal Case for Striking North Korea First.”
www.wsj.com/articles/the-legal-case-for-striking-north-korea-first-151
9862374


Bolton rolled out the dependable formula: First he set out who was being naive—in this case, anyone opposed a pre-emptive military strike against North Korea. Such thinkers are using outdated standards that apply more to the 1800s than to the age of ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons, he argued.

Bolton then praised two former US presidents—Franklin D. Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan—for taking pre-emptive measures for the sake of national security. Roosevelt “vastly extended America’s ‘waters of self defense'” in the face of Nazi aggression, while Reagan extended US territorial waters, “making it harder for Soviet spy ships to gather information.” Bolton added: “In short, both Roosevelt and Reagan acted unilaterally to adjust to new realities… They adjusted the measures to reality, not the reverse.”

Bolton ends the piece with, “It is perfectly legitimate for the United States to respond to the current ‘necessity’ posed by North Korea’s nuclear weapons by striking first.”

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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