REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Enthuziazm Fail

POSTED BY: JO753
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 04:45
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Monday, November 21, 2016 1:37 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

You stepped into the ring.
You very obviously have NO idea what a normal discussion among people is like.
Quote:

The entire post coud hav been ritten by sumwun who arrived on Earth in mid October and watched Sean Hannity exclusively for a week.
And you blew by all the FACTS I posted that led to that conclusion. Cherry pick much? Avoid truth in favor of 'truthiness' much? Sure you do.


And btw, how DID your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

During the primaries I said Bernie was the stronger candidate. For the whole campaign, I was telling people that Hillary was a weak candidate, that she had many faults - which I enumerated often - that people 'out there' weren't going to forgive her for, come election time. I said that Donald was succeeding for a reason that had nothing to do with racism and everything to do with people feeling abused and unheard. I said that Hillary needed to enthusiastically and vocally adopt Bernie's strong 'pro-worker' stance - or Donald's - in order to compete. I urged people to forget about Donald and try to figure out ways to make Hillary stronger. For all the good it did. People were stuck in their mindless, uncritical support for Hillary; and obsessed with flinging poo at Donald. And how did THAT turn out?

Unless you come to grips with the notion that Hillary lost due to her own mistakes, you won't understand what to do to better next time.

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Tuesday, November 22, 2016 8:10 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


We agree on sum thingz. Look at the title uv this topic. See hoo started it? And wen?

And surely youv red this befor: http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/8/23/1414804/-President-Trump


----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Tuesday, November 22, 2016 8:55 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

During the primaries I said Bernie was the stronger candidate. For the whole campaign, I was telling people that Hillary was a weak candidate, that she had many faults - which I enumerated often - that people 'out there' weren't going to forgive her for, come election time. I said that Donald was succeeding for a reason that had nothing to do with racism and everything to do with people feeling abused and unheard. I said that Hillary needed to enthusiastically and vocally adopt Bernie's strong 'pro-worker' stance - or Donald's - in order to compete. I urged people to forget about Donald and try to figure out ways to make Hillary stronger. For all the good it did. People were stuck in their mindless, uncritical support for Hillary; and obsessed with flinging poo at Donald. And how did THAT turn out?

Unless you come to grips with the notion that Hillary lost due to her own mistakes, you won't understand what to do to better next time.

The problem would be that Hillary is a weakling. She surrendered to Trump rather than be energized to fight. She has 2 million more votes, but she is acting like a lawyer. The electoral college has NOT voted yet and Hillary already capitulated two weeks back. She ought to be making a case to the electors of the College that Trump is a nut: Yesterday Trump told the media in an off-record meeting that they are all liars and he is the only one who knows Truth from Falsehood. He is crazy.
http://nypost.com/2016/11/21/donald-trumps-media-summit-was-a-f-ing-fi
ring-squad
/

Donald Trump's success reveals a frightening weakness in American democracy. This video was made before Hillary gave her concession speech and it concisely explains why Democrats think they "almost" lost. They did not know that Hillary would be surrendering within a few hours because she is weak and uncertain of the rightness of her beliefs. Why would Hillary fight for an office she never wanted very badly? She'd much rather go for a walk in the woods around her house in upstate New York and admire the pretty Fall colors.

One thing you can always say about Republicans and never about Democrats is that when they want something, they want it with all their heart and will do whatever it takes to get it. See this heartwarming story about Nixon:
www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/yes-nixon-scuttled-the-vietnam
-peace-talks-107623



More at www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/11/13578618/why-did-trump-win

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, November 22, 2016 10:10 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The problem would be that Hillary is a weakling. She surrendered to Trump rather than be energized to fight. She has 2 million more votes, but she is acting like a lawyer. The electoral college has NOT voted yet and Hillary already capitulated two weeks back.... This video was made before Hillary gave her concession speech and it concisely explains why Democrats think they "almost" lost. They did not know that Hillary would be surrendering within a few hours because she is weak and uncertain of the rightness of her beliefs.... Why would Hillary fight for an office she never wanted very badly? She'd much rather go for a walk in the woods around her house in upstate New York and admire the pretty Fall colors.
The problem would be that Hillary is frail, if not downright ill. Trump was making 3-4 appearances a day in the last few weeks. Hillary barely showed up to her own campaign and assumed that minions and money could manage everything.

Quote:

She ought to be making a case to the electors of the College that Trump is a nut: Yesterday Trump told the media in an off-record meeting that they are all liars and he is the only one who knows Truth from Falsehood. He is crazy. = SECOND
You think the rules of the game should be changed retrospectively? Then you will have a very angry mob on your hands, SECOND, maybe even a revolt. The candidates - BOTH OF THEM- campaigned for electoral college votes. If the rules had been based on popular vote, they would have campaigned differently.

How can I explain this in a way that a mind twisted by fear would understand? It would be as if, after a touchdown, someone decided to move the goalposts to discount the last score. Feel free to agitate all you want for changing the rules for the next time. Don't try to change them after-the-fact.

Quote:

Yesterday Trump told the media in an off-record meeting that they are all liars and he is the only one who knows Truth from Falsehood. He is crazy.
Three weeks ago, Obama thought we needed some kind of internet commission for "truthiness" ... I didn't hear you objecting back then. DID YOU? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Trump may have scolded the media ... and IMHO they needed scolding. Even the NYT published a mea culpa for it's self-admittedly poor reporting. But this was supposed to be an "off the record" meeting ... so why are we even hearing about it???

What Trump can do about a hostile MSM is NOT set up some kind of "Commission of Thought Police", what he can do, if he so desires, is simply stop providing them access.

The MSM needs Trump more than he needs them. The campaign has demonstrated that he can get his message out, even when they're working against him. Maybe if information started to flow only in certain pathways, it would get liberals heads out of the bubbles they managed to make for themselves. I listen to NPR, SECOND. Do you listen to Alex Jones?

Quote:

One thing you can always say about Republicans and never about Democrats is that when they want something, they want it with all their heart and will do whatever it takes to get it.
I can say the same thing for liberals ... willing to lie (about poll numbers, about Trump, about Hillary), ready to have a giant street-pout and be manipulated by the likes to Soros because they can't get over the fact that they LOST, MORE than willing to change the rules after the game ... NOT, IMHO, a great display of objectivity, fairness, or honesty.




-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

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Tuesday, November 22, 2016 10:15 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I just saw this ...

Quote:

Trump Continues To Blast Media - Cancels Meeting With "Failing New York Times"

Just one day after calling a summit of the major mainstream media executives and anchors at Trump Tower in which he referred to everyone as "dishonest, deceitful liars," Trump this morning has continued his feud with the media by cancelling a planned meeting with the "failing New York Times." A tweet sent by Trump this morning indicated that the meeting was cancelled after the New York Times tried to change the "terms and conditions" of the meeting which Trump found to be "not nice." http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-22/trump-continues-blast-media-c
ancels-meeting-failing-new-york-times



Trump, whatever his failings, is not a stupid man, and neither are his advisors.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

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Tuesday, November 22, 2016 10:37 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

The problem would be that Hillary is frail, if not downright ill. Trump was making 3-4 appearances a day in the last few weeks. Hillary barely showed up to her own campaign and assumed that minions and money could manage everything.

You think the rules of the game should be changed retrospectively? Then you will have a very angry mob on your hands, SECOND, maybe even a revolt. The candidates - BOTH OF THEM- campaigned for electoral college votes. If the rules had been based on popular vote, they would have campaigned differently.

How can I explain this in a way that a mind twisted by fear would understand? It would be as if, after a touchdown, someone decided to move the goalposts to discount the last score. Feel free to agitate all you want for changing the rules for the next time. Don't try to change them after-the-fact.

It stops being a game with tidy little rules when both sides, not just Republicans, go to war with each other. That won't happen because Hillary is a weakling. She was all posture and no courage.

Back when she was a Senator, Hillary said she would submit a Constitutional Amendment to abolish the Electoral College after Bush lost the 2000 election but won the electoral college. She did NOTHING. She is a big damn weakling that she would not even bother to submit the paperwork. So the Republic is certainly safe from Hillary calling for an armed revolution. That revolt requires more than filing the proper forms with the correct data on time with the authorities in order to receive her permits and pay her fees. If Hillary had been running for County Clerk or County Tax-Assessor & Collector, she would have been in her element. Running for President was completely beyond her mental abilities.
www.newsweek.com/arguments-favor-electoral-college-wrong-522439

In the news: According to the Brookings analysis, the less-than-500 counties that Clinton won nationwide combined to generate 64 percent of America's economic activity in 2015. The more-than-2,600 counties that Trump won combined to generate 36 percent of the country's economic activity last year.

Clinton, in other words, carried nearly two-thirds of the American economy.

In the modern era of presidential politics, no candidate has ever won the popular vote by more than Hillary Clinton did this year, yet still managed to lose the Electoral College. In that sense, 2016 was a historic split: Donald Trump won the presidency by as much as 74 electoral votes (depending on how Michigan ends up) while losing the nationwide vote to Clinton by 1.7 million votes and counting.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/22/donald-trump-lost-most-
of-the-american-economy-in-this-election
/

If the situation was reversed, with Trump having a plurality of the popular vote, he would be doing everything to win, legally or not. If he could not win, he'd make sure that Hillary was seen as illegitimately elected by a crooked system in the Electoral College. Hillary fighting like Trump would? Unimaginable. I found an example of how to fight back: "Why hasn't N.C. Gov. Pat McCrory conceded to his Democratic challenger?" McCrory has lodged formal complaints in half of the state's 100 counties, alleging widespread voter fraud. Take notes, Hillary, because you could follow this example, but only if you have guts enough.
www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2016/1122/Why-hasn-t-N.C.-Gov.-Pat-McCr
ory-conceded-to-his-Democratic-challenger


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, November 22, 2016 2:58 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Bernie is giving a speech Wednesday about what progressives can do to counter the Trump agenda.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Tuesday, November 22, 2016 3:03 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:You think the rules of the game should be changed retrospectively?


2nd'z point wuz that Hillary shoud uze the electoral collej for the reazon it exists. Thats not chanjing the rulez.

2nd, thats interesting that she had the opportunity to try to eliminate the system in 2000 but didnt even try.

If sumwun wants to argue that Hillary shoudnt be prez - THAT woud be their best evidens. (but still not any kind uv case for Trump being prez)

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Tuesday, November 22, 2016 3:07 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


WHAT A DIFFERENT TUNE YOU'RE SINGING NOW!


https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-clinton-raps-trump-accepting-electio
n-results-191730802--election.html


The Latest: Clinton raps Trump on accepting election results

The Latest: Clinton raps Trump on accepting election results
[Associated Press]
Associated PressOctober 25, 2016

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Latest on the U.S. presidential race (all times EDT):

3:15 p.m.

Hillary Clinton is assailing Donald Trump for refusing to say he'll respect the outcome of the presidential election.

The Democratic nominee says in Florida that she has "serious doubts" about whether Trump understands the meaning of the president's oath of office to "preserve, protect and defend the constitution."

Clinton said Tuesday at a Coconut Creek rally that Trump is "attacking everything that has set our country apart for 240 years." She pointed to his refusal at the final debate to commit to conceding the race if he loses.

She joked that Trump would have called George Washington "a loser" for not wanting to be king.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Tuesday, November 22, 2016 5:09 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


“If Donald Trump can help her heal, then perhaps that’s a good thing,” Ms. Conway said.

Isn't that sweet? Trump is going to help Hillary Clinton "heal." What a guy.

Donald Trump Drops Threat of New Hillary Clinton Investigation
www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/us/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-in
vestigation.html

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Tuesday, November 22, 2016 11:01 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Isn't that sweet? Trump is going to help Hillary Clinton "heal." What a guy.

I disagree. It's the most horrible thing a person could do. It's vicious, cruel, ruthless.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Wednesday, November 23, 2016 3:59 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

In the news: According to the Brookings analysis, the less-than-500 counties that Clinton won nationwide combined to generate 64 percent of America's economic activity in 2015. The more-than-2,600 counties that Trump won combined to generate 36 percent of the country's economic activity last year.
That probably explains why so many voted for Trump: Do you think the flyover states WANT to be economically unstrung?

Hillary focused on financial and IP counties, fully reflective of her donor list. Those counties LIKE the way things are going! They get to speculate with all of that free money from Janet Yellen, making beaucoup bucks (but not a single product) offa churning debt.And Hillary was going to offer them a chance to expand their IP monopolies in her "free trade" zones. What's not to like??? The beneficiaries of the way things are vote for the way things are!

Quote:

If the situation was reversed, with Trump having a plurality of the popular vote, he would be doing everything to win, legally or not. If he could not win, he'd make sure that Hillary was seen as illegitimately elected by a crooked system in the Electoral College.
One of the great things about having argued positions from both sides of the GOP-Demo divide is that I get a chance to see hypocrisy operating on both sides. People usually whine and complain, not when something is patently unfair or absurd, but because THEIR particular ox was gored.

The most convincing time to make your point about the electoral college would have been when it was NOT in your favor to do so. That's called "holding a principled position" instead of an opportunistic one.

AFA the "war" between the parties .... whatever it is that's been going on between them has been going on since Bill Clinton was elected, and possibly even before. Even the people are still mostly the same. Whether you think it's war or just politics, as far as I can tell there is nothing new.


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

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Wednesday, November 23, 2016 8:08 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

In the news: According to the Brookings analysis, the less-than-500 counties that Clinton won nationwide combined to generate 64 percent of America's economic activity in 2015. The more-than-2,600 counties that Trump won combined to generate 36 percent of the country's economic activity last year.
That probably explains why so many voted for Trump: Do you think the flyover states WANT to be economically unstrung?

How about Trump just make fake factories and staff them with poor rural white people and pay them a universal basic income under the table so that they think they're actually working for their money and don't get all butt hurt about it? Trump's tinkering with TPP and NAFTA, which costs him exactly nothing, will cause a slow increase in employment, stretched out over four years, while fake jobs, which will immediately cost Trump hundreds of billions, will cause a large and fast increase in employment. I think Trump will be using only "solutions" that cost nothing.

CBS News went to coal country to ask them why they voted for Trump. CBS got answers back about how Washington ruined coal mining with all their rules. Trump, they hope, will fix it. No person on either side of the camera had ever made the connection between cheap Texas natural gas and the ruining of coal mining. Trump will understand this Texas vs Coal connection, yet I doubt that he will be ordering the shutdown of interstate natural gas pipelines in order to help his voters, but you never know. Trump will be changing the rules, although that will not be helping the coal miners as much as they hope.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, November 23, 2016 10:39 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM

AFA the "war" between the parties .... whatever it is that's been going on between them has been going on since Bill Clinton was elected, and possibly even before. Even the people are still mostly the same. Whether you think it's war or just politics, as far as I can tell there is nothing new.

You want to know something new? For a long time now the political behavior of the “white working class” (i.e., white people who don’t have a college degree) has varied substantially from region to region. Republicans traditionally won overwhelming victories with the white working class in the South and among regular churchgoers, while Democrats won with less devout Northerners.

That regional divide is key to understanding what happened in 2016. A Republican Party that was broadly identified with religious Southerners nominated a secular Northerner who was not identified with the Republican Party leadership. Not surprisingly, that helped him win the votes of secular Northerners who’d traditionally distrusted the Republican Party. Meanwhile, his campaign very much emphasized whiteness as a theme. In an ultimately failed effort to win the votes of traditionally Republican-leaning white women in the suburbs, his opponent joined with him in dissociating the Trump agenda from the Republican Party we’ve known for years.

Justin Gest’s book The New Minority: White Working Class Politics in an Age of Immigration and Inequality has the advantage of being substantially about exactly the question on everyone’s minds — the political behavior of white working-class Midwesterners — while also being written before the 2016 election results were known, so it’s a little separate from all the hot takes out there.
www.amazon.com/New-Minority-Politics-Immigration-Inequality/dp/0190632
542


Gest’s main analytic idea, somewhat transcending the “race versus economic anxiety” debate, is that the people he studied both quantitatively and ethnographically feel an acute sense of political marginalization. They have heard that national demographics have shifted and that the nonwhite vote is now more important than it used to be. They hear Republicans talking a lot about social issues they don’t really care about, and associate the GOP with both the literal bosses at work and with bossy, devout Southerners (or in Mitt Romney’s case, Mormons) whom they don’t identify with. But they also see a Democratic Party that is dominated by white professionals who seem obsessed with mobilizing nonwhite voters.

A key point Gest makes is that Democrats have gotten accustomed to relying on labor unions as the means through which they do representational politics aimed at the white working class. When Democrats are putting a big group together, they make sure African Americans and Latinos and Jews and AAPIs and LGBTQs get their due, and also that labor gets its due.

But labor’s position in the Midwest has eroded massively. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics there are about twice as many union workers in “professional and related occupations” (mostly teachers) as in “production, transportation, and material moving occupations” (mostly working class). Unionization levels are currently very low in the retail and food service fields where most working class people work.

Gest has a lot of thoughts about what either party can do to reach out to and mobilize white working-class supporters in the Midwest, but his most basic suggestion is probably his most interesting one — recruit and support working-class candidates who can speak directly to working-class job experiences. Do it with black and Hispanic working-class candidates as well as with white ones, but obviously in a whiter state you probably want more white candidates, while in a heavily Latino state you want more Latino ones.

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/23/13685988/democrats-identity
-politics

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Wednesday, November 23, 2016 11:18 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
One of the great things about having argued positions from both sides of the GOP-Demo divide is that I get a chance to see hypocrisy operating on both sides. People usually whine and complain, not when something is patently unfair or absurd, but because THEIR particular ox was gored.

The most convincing time to make your point about the electoral college [or gerrymandering] would have been when it was NOT in your favor to do so. That's called "holding a principled position" instead of an opportunistic one.

.... Whether you think it's war or just politics, as far as I can tell there is nothing new.

Here is something else that is new: On Monday, a federal district court struck down Wisconsin’s state legislative districts, saying they were unconstitutionally gerrymandered to favor Republicans. The ruling is the first in three decades — and the second in the nation’s history — to strike down a district plan on partisan, rather than racial, grounds. And if other courts follow suit, the design of state legislative districts in more than a dozen other states could meet a similar fate.

This was why the decision Monday by the federal District Court for the Western District of Wisconsin was so significant. The court found that the Republican-held legislature had intentionally manipulated district lines to favor Republican candidates. And that manipulation was so extreme, it found, that it violated the “one person, one vote” principle and the Democratic voters’ rights to fair representation required by the Constitution's promises of equal protection.

In short, by drawing district lines that pack Democrats into a small number of districts or spread them in small numbers across many districts, the court ruled that a Republican legislature was able to gain narrow victories in a disproportionately large number of districts.

Before this case, the existence of gerrymandering like this was widely recognized. But what wasn’t clear before was the best way to measure it — which many judges, including justices on the Supreme Court, have said is necessary to determine whether a gerrymander is unconstitutional.

The plaintiffs in this case proposed such a measurement, dubbed the “efficiency gap”. By that measure, Wisconsin’s state legislature’s gerrymandering appears unusually egregious.

But they say more significant change could come following a ruling by the Supreme Court, which is the next level of appeal. Wisconsin has already announced it plans to appeal.

The Supreme Court, which expressed interest in a measure like the efficiency gap in a 2006 opinion, could set the nationwide standard. And that may not be such a long shot. Gary King, a Harvard professor who studies gerrymandering, says a measure based on the vote-seat relationship such as the efficiency gap, “is the only real standard that has any support.”

Ahead of 2021 redistricting, the stakes are especially high. A Supreme Court ruling, because of its nationwide impact, “would mean there would be a limit on how extreme the gerrymanders could be,” Greenwood said.

More at www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/23/wisconsins-gerrymander-
being-struck-down-should-scare-republicans-nationwide
/

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Wednesday, November 23, 2016 11:56 AM

REAVERFAN


Remember When Mike Pence Tried to Start a Government Propaganda Outlet in Indiana?
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/07/14/mike_pence_once_tried_t
o_start_a_government_propaganda_outlet_in_indiana.html

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Wednesday, November 23, 2016 5:20 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Remember When Mike Pence Tried to Start a Government Propaganda Outlet in Indiana?
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/07/14/mike_pence_once_tried_t
o_start_a_government_propaganda_outlet_in_indiana.html

It is kind of an old story, plus, Pence had enough commonsense to abort the idea after conception but before the second trimester. If it had been Trump, he would have ignored all criticism and gone ahead and raised the abortion as the precision child of Trump's brilliant mind.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, November 24, 2016 1:16 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
In the news: According to the Brookings analysis, the less-than-500 counties that Clinton won nationwide combined to generate 64 percent of America's economic activity in 2015. The more-than-2,600 counties that Trump won combined to generate 36 percent of the country's economic activity last year.

I look at analyses all day long. So it always strikes me as curious when someone presents one number AS IF it's the total picture, when I know it isn't. What are they trying to hide? What OTHER descriptors are they avoiding?
A robust picture should use many more measures than just one.
This descriptor makes me wonder: what if you took per-capita measures into account? Could this concentration of economic activity simply be a result of concentration of PEOPLE? If you looked more closely, and PER CAPITA results were average - or even below average - would it indicate AT BEST that these areas were merely not an economic drag?
And what if you took historic norms into account? WHAT IF these areas had been previous powerhouses and were gutted in the past - creating tremendous suffering - and current measures were penalizing people today for the mere fact that international business had sucked them dry yesterday?
OR ... WHAT IF the areas were producing essential - 100% required products - LIKE FOOD - that don't rate high on the price scale?
AND SO ON.
Whenever I see a sparse analysis, it alerts me to the possibility the rest of the information wasn't made available for the simple reason that THERE WAS SOMETHING TO HIDE.
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
That probably explains why so many voted for Trump: Do you think the flyover states WANT to be economically unstrung?

This seems like a reasonable supposition to investigate.
But, never to be stymied in finding opportunities to be a stupid ass, SECOND replies
Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
How about Trump just make fake factories and staff them with poor rural white people and pay them a universal basic income under the table so that they think they're actually working for their money and don't get all butt hurt about it?

SECOND, if your goal was to look like a conniving biased ass - CONGRATULATIONS !!! You've finally accomplished something!
And then SECOND goes even DEEPER!
Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
No person on either side of the camera had ever made the connection between cheap Texas natural gas and the ruining of coal mining.

Yes SECOND, for sheer convoluted idiocy, you've definitely succeeded!
But frankly, I'm too bored with your stupidity to explain.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Thursday, November 24, 2016 7:55 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Since I'm not sleeping well, I guess I have some time to answer this:

Quote:

Trump may have scolded the media ... and IMHO they needed scolding. Even the NYT published a mea culpa for it's self-admittedly poor reporting. And what Trump can do about it is NOT set up some kind of "Commission of Thought Police", what he can do, if he so desires, is simply stop providing them access.- SIGNY

As any fascist state would do:
"Fascist states pursued policies of social indoctrination through propaganda in education and the media and regulation of the production of educational and media materials. Education was designed to glorify the fascist movement and inform students of its historical and political importance to the nation. It attempted to purge ideas that were not consistent with the beliefs of the fascist movement and to teach students to be obedient to the state." =GSTRING

But what does "education" have to do with this topic? Oh that's right: NOTHING.

Next?

Quote:

Controlling Media is right out of Putin's Playbook of course. I used to think of them as buddies, now it's more like Darth Putin. "let me show you how it's done." Union of Soviet America here we come.= GSTRING-
So, how is it that Trump is "controlling the media" if he doesn't provide them the kind of access they want?

TRUMP IS TAKING A SHIT! QUICK! BRING IN THE PHOTOGS AND RELEASE A STATEMENT!

As far as press conferences are concerned, the press is VERY well-controlled there! They sit like eager puppy-dogs with stenographer's notebooks.

Maybe if they weren't so lazy they wouldn't be depending on the President and spokespeople for crumbs, and instead do some REAL reporting for a change. Yanno, go out and get facts, instead of some WH/ State Department massaged statement.

There was a reporter, Isidor Feinstein (aka "I.F." aka "Izzy") Stone, who only reported from commonly known facts. He never depended on access to off-the-record sources because he felt that if he was dependent on them it would affect what he wrote. Where he was BRILLIANT was putting the pieces together.

We need more of that, and fewer stenographers.

Quote:

The MSM needs Trump more than he needs them.- SIGNY

There's some truth to that now that the election is over, but they could still make things very hard for him.- G

Well, they could cavil and criticize endlessly, and twist the news to ignore the positive and focus on the negative but
1) How is that anything new? and
2) Don't you think people would notice the bias? And since there are alternatives out there, don't you think that bias would drive even more people away?

Quote:

The campaign has demonstrated that he can get his message out, even when they're working against him. - SIGNY
That's just laughable. It was 24/7 all Donald Trump on MSM. They did more than his press team to get him coverage. He owes them a debt of gratitude. And where was the equal coverage for HIllary? Pretty much non-existant. Why? She's boring! Media outlets lost eyeballs/money covering her. People changed the channels to find Trump being Trump. His is a Media Creation. He was fined tuned for this from his years with The Apprentice.= G

The DNC and their lapdog press (If I want to know what the DNC is thinking, all I have to do is listen to NPR) at first promoted Trump because they thought he was the weakest candidate. When it became apparent that he was stronger than they thought, the coverage became all negative, all the time.

Quote:

Maybe if information started to flow only in certain pathways, it would get liberals heads out of the bubbles they managed to make for themselves. - SIGNY

There you go folks - SIGHEIL getting us ready to be spoon fed propaganda for breakfast, lunch and dinner. "Isn't that better? It's easier to swallow and has no flavor..." Scary sh*t.= GSTRING

There you go again, being a propagandist. All I'm saying is ... GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS ONCE IN A WHILE. The press YOU listen to is as controlled as the press you DON'T listen to ... altho you're under the impression that "your press" is somehow a "free press". (Why, I don't know!)

Get out the mental popcorn, go over to Alex Jones, RT, Southfront, Xinhua, Saker, or some other sites you're pretty sure that you disagree with and listen to/scan them every day for ten years. Do the same for MSNBC, BBC, or whoever the hell you usually listen to. At some point, you'll gain a much greater appreciation for the fact that EVERYONE has a POV, and your so-called "reliable" sources are just as biased as everyone else.

Quote:

I listen to NPR, SECOND. Do you listen to Alex Jones? = SIGNY
False parallels by miles - not even close. Why would anyone listen to that freak show?= GSTRING


BECAUSE THEY GOT THE ELECTION RIGHT, AND NPR FAILED? Because the NYT had to write a mea culpa (they had to do the same for publishing Judith Miller's WMD stories, which were sheet CIA/ Whitehouse plants.) I mean, really dood, ya gotta wake up and smell the coffee at some point! (Well, you don't, but then why should anyone pay attention to you, if all you're doing is repeating propaganda?)



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

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Thursday, November 24, 2016 8:23 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

But, never to be stymied in finding opportunities to be a stupid ass, SECOND replies
Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
How about Trump just make fake factories and staff them with poor rural white people and pay them a universal basic income under the table so that they think they're actually working for their money and don't get all butt hurt about it?

SECOND, if your goal was to look like a conniving biased ass - CONGRATULATIONS !!! You've finally accomplished something!
And then SECOND goes even DEEPER!
Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
No person on either side of the camera had ever made the connection between cheap Texas natural gas and the ruining of coal mining.

Yes SECOND, for sheer convoluted idiocy, you've definitely succeeded!
But frankly, I'm too bored with your stupidity to explain.

Sorry, 1kiki, but you don't know. Funny how that never stops you from writing at great length. In this case, 1kiki does not understand the energy industry. The people who buy energy by the trillions of BTUs want to buy cheaply. Those people switched from coal to natural gas because it was cheaper once you add the cost of transporting coal by train, storing it, grinding it to dust before burning the coal, hauling away the ashes, and filtering the smoke from burning coal out of the clear blue sky. On the other hand, the people who go into mines to dig coal also understand nothing, just like 1kiki, about the people who buy either coal or natural gas by the trillions of BTUs. The miners don’t think that the big-shot buyers are important, instead they blame Washington DC for their problems of unemployment rather than blame cheap gas from Texas.

By the way, when coal gets cheaper than natural gas, the buyers will switch back to coal. Trump could make that happen by forbidding interstate nat gas pipeline operations. The buyers of nat gas will not appreciate Trump helping the coal miners in that fashion, but he could do it, if he will enthusiastically fight Texas and the pipeline industry in court.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, November 24, 2016 8:55 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Here is another example of Hillary and her failing enthusiasm. She is just not energetic enough to contest Trump's election. A group of election lawyers and data experts have asked Hillary Clinton’s campaign to call for a recount of the vote totals in three battleground states — Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania — to ensure that acyberattack was not committed to manipulate the totals.

Hillary, as to be expected from everything else I have seen, does not have the willpower to even file the papers to start a recount. "The Clinton campaign on Wednesday did not respond to a request for comment as to whether it would petition for a recount before the three states’ fast-approaching deadlines to ask for one. Recounts, which are often costly and time-intensive efforts, would likely only be initiated if the Clinton camp pushed for one." Green Party candidate Jill Stein announced a fundraising effort Wednesday to pay for such recounts. Maybe Hillary could loan Jill the money, because Jill cares and Hillary doesn't care?

Many voting machines produce a paper record of the vote that could be checked for accuracy.

Pennsylvania is considered one of the states most susceptible to hacking because 96 percent of its voting machines have no paper trail. Wisconsin is far less vulnerable because it uses electronic machines with voter-verifiable paper trails in most counties. Michigan is considered the safest of the three because it uses paper ballots.

Officials in the three states confirmed that no recounts have been ordered.

*************

IN A RACE AGAINST TIME, Jill Stein has raised $2.5 million to fund recounts in key states Hillary Clinton lost.

Stein reached her $2.5 million goal at 2:50am Eastern Time on Thanksgiving day (Nov. 24). She launched her fundraising campaign the afternoon of Nov. 23 after J. Alex Halderman, a computer scientist at the University of Michigan, noticed statistical anomalies, raising the possibility that ballot machines could’ve been hacked.

http://qz.com/845490/jill-stein-raised-more-than-2-million-to-fund-rec
ounts-in-wisconsin-michigan-and-pennsylvania-where-hillary-clinton-lost
/

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Thursday, November 24, 2016 1:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

No person on either side of the camera had ever made the connection between cheap Texas natural gas and the ruining of coal mining.
Quote:

Sorry, 1kiki, but you don't know.


Really? What I know is nat gas production has really taken off in recent years.



That it's almost all due to fracking.



And that fracking needs a constant infusion of investment capital to tap new areas and re-stimulate old ones - only possible with low interest rates. AND prices have to be high to almost break even.

I know that when the Saudis dropped the price of oil Jan 2014



it put the fracking 'shale' industry in a world of hurt. Competing at those low prices meant frackers couldn't recoup their capital borrowing no matter how low the interest rates. And many have simply folded.

http://focusonfracking.blogspot.com/2016/03/us-rig-count-at-record-low
-while-us-oil.html


As long as SAUDI OIL remains cheap, fracked nat gas will be uneconomic. And so will coal.





How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Thursday, November 24, 2016 4:20 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

But what does "education" have to do with this topic? Oh that's right: NOTHING.

Ummm, JUST Everything? SIGNUT acting stupid now - check. "Get them while they are young." Why do you think ISIS indoctrinates at such a young age? Why do you think McDonalds has Ronald? I wonder how little the peephole is that you see the world through.= GSTRING



I see a massive READING FAIL on your part. This topic is about the media. Education? Not so much! But if anyone can be thought of as attempting to control education at the Federal level, just look to Obama and "commmon core". Logic fail on your part.

Quote:

The quote also discusses media, and that is precisely what Trump is after - will you act stupid on that or acknowledge he's trying to manipulate the press? (ha! trick question! You'll parrot the Trump line of course). -GSTRING
Yep. Just like any other President. That WAS my point: Do you think press conferences and press releases are somehow NOT an attempt to manipulate the press?

If you do, you're stupider than I thought, and that's saying something!

Quote:

BTW - the First Amendment doesn't say anything about "The Press has to be really, really good according to everyone." Who would judge that anyway? The party in power? No conflict there, right?=GSTRNG

Again, the person who seems to want to control the press is Obama. He thinks we need our news "curated" for us


and that the media needs some sort of "truthiness' test



So why weren't you squealing about it then??? Could it be because you're some sort of liberaloid bigot?


Quote:

Of course they're sitting listening to the president - they're in a room with chairs and he has something to say. Sometimes - for intelligent reporters - it's what he doesn't say that counts= GSTRING
Funny that you should say that, I've said that myself, many times, and was laughed at for my trouble, so fuck you.


Quote:

Maybe if they weren't so lazy they wouldn't be depending on the President and spokespeople for crumbs, and instead do some REAL reporting for a change. Yanno, go out and get facts, instead of some WH/ State Department massaged statement. = SIGNY

Do you follow them around and see what they do? No? So you base that on? Pure, thoughtless Fantasy? So you have no idea again.= GSTRING

Have you ever watched Mark Toner or Jen Psaki press conferences?

Quote:

There was a reporter, Isidor Feinstein (aka "I.F." aka "Izzy") Stone, who only reported from commonly known facts. He never depended on access to off-the-record sources because he felt that if he was dependent on them it would affect what he wrote. Where he was BRILLIANT was putting the pieces together.
We need more of that, and fewer stenographers. = SIGNY

Return to Fantasy Island= GSTRING

For you.

Dood, I'm too busy to deal with jackoffs like you.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

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Thursday, November 24, 2016 8:44 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

That it's almost all due to fracking.

And that fracking needs a constant infusion of investment capital to tap new areas and re-stimulate old ones - only possible with low interest rates. AND prices have to be high to almost break even.

I know that when the Saudis dropped the price of oil Jan 2014

it put the fracking 'shale' industry in a world of hurt. Competing at those low prices meant frackers couldn't recoup their capital borrowing no matter how low the interest rates. And many have simply folded.

As long as SAUDI OIL remains cheap, fracked nat gas will be uneconomic. And so will coal.

Very good, 1kiki! You have everything you need to understand why coal miners are unemployed, 1kiki. Now go explain to the miners that Washington DC is not to blame for nat gas production taking off, which caused coal production to take a dive, which caused mining companies to fire their miners. Also explain to the coal miners that before Trump will put them back to work in the coal mines, he will have to restrict the flow of nat gas into interstate commerce. The most straight forward tactic Trump could use is to order interstate pipelines to close. Less straight forward would be for Trump to invade Texas and shutdown nat gas production. That would probably please the coal miners. Those miners might finally get a clue to why they lost their jobs (it is not Obama's fault) and how to get the jobs back (blame Texas and cut off the gas).

I just remembered that this has happened before. In the UK, Margaret Thatcher was blamed for coal miners losing their jobs, but it was really natural gas from the North Sea that reduced the amount of coal being burned in the UK, which reduced the coal mining employment. Thatcher could have insisted that England would only burn English coal and never Norwegian gas, but she would have been crazy to do that, much like Trump would be crazy to insist that Texas stop selling its gas to other states. But if Trump really wants to, he can act crazy and help the coal miners.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/margaret-thatcher-worst-prime-m
inister-pm-david-cameron-century-100-years-a7367481.html

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Thursday, November 24, 2016 8:49 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


So... u....wut iz it you think Obama iz manipulating there?
Wuts the lie or omission that will mislead us?

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:Again, the person who seems to want to control the press is Obama.
He thinks we need our news "curated" for us


and that the media needs some sort of "truthiness' test

So why weren't you squealing about it then??? Could it be because you're some
sort of liberaloid bigot?



----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Friday, November 25, 2016 7:39 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:

Az appalingly stoopid az the very idea uv Trump for prezident iz, the idiots who are going to vote for him hav enthuziazm. Hillary haz very little.

I'm watching Pence blather idiotic evasionz at Martha Raditz az I rite this, wanting to yell SHUT UP to hiz fase, but earlier on Meet The Press Alex Castellanos (republican dude) nailed it with hiz explanation about wy Hillary iz doing so badly agenst a guy who woudnt make a credible joke candidate in a sane world.

He sed 'you cant recommend enthuziazm' (or wordz to that effect). Hiz example wuz that he coud tell guyz about wun uv the other guyz in the roundtable having sex with Sofia Vergara, but they wont be enthuziastic about it.

Hillary had a chans to gain enthuziazm by picking Bernie az VP, but went with a virtual nobody with the pizzaz uv wite bread. A bad decision tha callz her vision and jujment into question.

And Hillary's failure continues. Jill Stein, without Hillary's help or encouragement, continues the fight to decide who will be the next President of the USA:

Jill Stein raises $4 million for 3-state recount effort

Just when you thought the bitter presidential election was finally behind us, comes this: The Green Party candidate is raising money to request recounts in three battleground states that gave Donald Trump the victory over Hillary Clinton.

Jill Stein has raised more than $4 million in just over 24 hours -- all through donations to her website.

“Our goal is to create a voting system that we can believe in,” Stein says.

Stein is questioning results in Pennsylvania, where Trump won by roughly 68,000 votes; Wisconsin, where his margin of victory was a little over 27,000 votes; and Michigan which is still too close to call.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jill-stein-raises-dollar4-million-for-
3-state-recount-effort/ar-AAkIK0j?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, November 25, 2016 7:57 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

So... u....wut iz it you think Obama iz manipulating there? Wuts the lie or omission that will mislead us? = JO
One can manipulate the press by more than just lies, JO. And you framing the question the way you did is just another attempted manipulation.

If this speech is not an attempt to control the press by Obama, then neither was Trump's.

But liberaloids are horrified ...HORRIFIED! I tell you! .... that Trump told the press to tell the truth, and Obama seems to be saying the same thing only more so, by suggesting that there should be some sort of organization to control the media on an ongoing basis. Some sort of Ministry of Truthiness perhaps.

So, which is this? Liberaloid hypocrisy? Liberaloid stupidity? Or are the two instances really different, and - if so- how?



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

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Friday, November 25, 2016 9:06 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Maybe you linked the rong speech?

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Friday, November 25, 2016 9:11 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
And Hillary's failure continues. Jill Stein, without Hillary's help or encouragement, continues the fight to decide who will be the next President of the USA



Hillary shoud be pressing the electoral collej to dump Trump. Stopping guyz like him iz the only reazon it exists.

Then they shoud pick Stien!

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Friday, November 25, 2016 9:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Maybe you linked the rong speech? = JO
No, I didn't.

Maybe you don't know what you're talking about?

WHAT DID TRUMP SAY ABOUT THE PRESS THAT WAS SO HORRIBLE? And then do a compare and contrast. Go look it up, because I think you're confused.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

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Friday, November 25, 2016 9:38 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Guys, HILLARY IS SICK.

She is on coumadin ... a drug with a 30% chance of serious hemorrhagic stroke ... and it's not for shits and giggles, I guarantee it. And I wouldn't be surprised if she was on other drugs as well because while some of her behavior can be explained as a consequence of her previous stroke, some of it is just .... bizarre, and still looks to me like over-medication on l-dopa or an l-dopa agonist. Why do I think this? Because I've had two close family members on that kind of medication and it produces those kinds of side effects.

So give the sick old lady a break, willya?



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

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Friday, November 25, 2016 1:27 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Guys, HILLARY IS SICK.

She is on coumadin ... a drug with a 30% chance of serious hemorrhagic stroke ... and it's not for shits and giggles, I guarantee it. And I wouldn't be surprised if she was on other drugs as well because while some of her behavior can be explained as a consequence of her previous stroke, some of it is just .... bizarre, and still looks to me like over-medication on l-dopa or an l-dopa agonist. Why do I think this? Because I've had two close family members on that kind of medication and it produces those kinds of side effects.

So give the sick old lady a break, willya?

Have you ever been at the racetrack when a horse has a breakdown? My horse Hillary is that horse and I want the track vet to euthanize her this very second. “Put. Her. Out. Of. Misery,” I was shouting at the Ruidoso Downs Race Track.
www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/us/death-and-disarray-at-americas-racetrack
s.html


It is not all bad that Hillary may soon be dead because my money was also bet on Trump. I’m the 1% you know. I am thankful for all those undeserved tax-cuts coming in 2017.

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Friday, November 25, 2016 2:17 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
Very good, 1kiki! You have everything you need to understand why coal miners are unemployed, 1kiki.

So, you were wrong. Coal decline is NOT about cheap Texas nat gas, it's about cheap Saudi oil. Understanding that you're wrong is a first step in digging yourself out of the mental grave you put yourself in.

Now here SECOND is doing its thing and posting YET ANOTHER STRAWMAN, imputing to me a topic I never addressed, a position I never held, and an argument I never made. I never addressed coal.
Now go explain to the miners that Washington DC is not to blame
Now here SECOND is being an idiot and an ass, fundamentally misrepresenting the coal strike under Maggie Thatcher milk snatcher. It had nothing to do with Magpie cutting coal jobs and everything to do with not seeking legally required agreements from the union, and not providing job replacement.
So, WHY WAS Magpie blamed?
THE GOVERNMENT OWNED AND RAN THE COAL MINES. It can't be more direct than that. And that made Magpie's government directly responsible for job-cutting.
Too, job-cutting had been going on for decades before nat gas. It had everything to do with easy coal seams being expended.
Also, job cutting was done under a series of agreements that were also decades old. WHICH MAGPIE VIOLATED.
THAT MADE MAGGIE THATCHER MILK SNATCHER DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR SHUTTING DOWN MINES WITHOUT RECEIVING LEGALLY REQUIRED AGREEMENTS AND PROVIDING LEGALLY REQUIRED COMPENSATION.
I just remembered that this has happened before. In the UK, Margaret Thatcher was blamed for coal miners losing their jobs
YOUR 'RECOLLECTION' IS ENTIRELY WRONG ABOUT THE CAUSES OF THE DISPUTE AND ABOUT THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT IN IT. And 'this', or what you stupidly think 'this' is, hasn't happened before under Magpie in England.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Friday, November 25, 2016 2:35 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Green Party candidate Jill Stein announced a fundraising effort Wednesday to pay for such recounts. Maybe Hillary could loan Jill the money, because Jill cares and Hillary doesn't care?

It's too bad your beloved DNC doesn't care either.
Oh, btw
How DID your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Friday, November 25, 2016 2:50 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
Very good, 1kiki! You have everything you need to understand why coal miners are unemployed, 1kiki.

So, you were wrong. Coal decline is NOT about cheap Texas nat gas, it's about cheap Saudi oil. Understanding that you're wrong is a first step in digging yourself out of the mental grave you put yourself in.

Whether you understand what you just did or not, you made a claim that cheap Saudi oil is being burned instead of coal. Please find an industry where oil is being burned to replace coal and let us know.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, November 25, 2016 9:56 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"you made a claim that cheap Saudi oil is being burned instead of coal"


The energy market is international and globally flexible when it comes to fuel source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining_in_the_United_States
Coal in the US (Million Short Tons) indicates production was cut by 10% in 2015 BECAUSE exports fell drastically.

And this graph indicates China's use of coal is steady, while its increased demand is being met in[art by oil.





How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Friday, November 25, 2016 11:32 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"you made a claim that cheap Saudi oil is being burned instead of coal"


The energy market is international and globally flexible when it comes to fuel source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining_in_the_United_States
Coal in the US (Million Short Tons) indicates production was cut by 10% in 2015 BECAUSE exports fell drastically.

And this graph indicates China's use of coal is steady, while its increased demand is being met in[art by oil.

Get a clue, 1kiki. No American coal miners lost their jobs because no American coal was ever shipped to China. Maybe some Chinese coal miners lost their jobs because of Saudi Arabian crude being burnt in China, but that has nothing to do with American coal miners losing their jobs.

And America is not burning oil instead of coal; it is burning Nat Gas instead of coal, because gas is cheaper than coal or oil.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, November 25, 2016 11:37 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining_in_the_United_States
Coal in the US (Million Short Tons) indicates production was cut by 10% in 2015 BECAUSE exports fell drastically.

Are you claiming the US doesn't export coal on the international market? Because that would be just stupid. OH, WAIT! What was I thinking?




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Friday, November 25, 2016 11:44 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining_in_the_United_States
Coal in the US (Million Short Tons) indicates production was cut by 10% in 2015 BECAUSE exports fell drastically.

Are you claiming the US doesn't export coal on the international market? Because that would be just stupid. OH, WAIT! What was I thinking?

You're being a dumbass, 1kiki. Look it up, moron.
www.eia.gov/coal/production/quarterly/pdf/t7p01p1.pdf
You're like a fucking lawyer in a debate, grabbing facts that you don't understand, in order to win some points with the judges.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, November 25, 2016 11:50 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


As many Americans are trying to figure out what kind of president they have just elected, the people of Balmedie, a small village outside the once oil-rich city of Aberdeen, say they have a pretty good idea. In the 10 years since Mr. Trump first visited, vowing to build “the world’s greatest golf course” on an environmentally protected site featuring 4,000-year-old sand dunes, they have seen him lash out at anyone standing in his way. They say they watched him win public support for his golf course with grand promises, then watched him break them one by one.

A promised $1.25 billion investment has shrunk to what his opponents say is at most $50 million. Six thousand jobs have dwindled to 95. Two golf courses to one. An eight-story, 450-room luxury hotel never materialized, nor did 950 time-share apartments. Instead, an existing manor house was converted into a 16-room boutique hotel. Trump International Golf Links, which opened in 2012, lost $1.36 million last year, according to public accounts.

“If America wants to know what is coming, it should study what happened here. It’s predictive,” said Martin Ford, a local government representative. “I have just seen him do in America, on a grander scale, precisely what he did here. He suckered the people and he suckered the politicians until he got what he wanted, and then he went back on pretty much everything he promised.”

Alex Salmond, a former first minister of Scotland whose government granted Mr. Trump planning permission in 2008, overruling local officials, now concedes the point, saying, “Balmedie got 10 cents on the dollar.”

www.nytimes.com/2016/11/25/world/europe/donald-trump-scotland-wall.htm
l


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, November 26, 2016 12:04 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


http://www.eia.gov/coal/production/quarterly/pdf/t7p01p1.pdf

OH LOOKIT THAT! US COAL EXPORTS TO CHINA. DOWN BY 45% YTD. IN YOUR OWN FUCKING SOURCE!

Didn't you claim the US NEVER exported coal to China? Oh yeah! Right here!

"No American coal miners lost their jobs because no American coal was ever shipped to China. Maybe some Chinese coal miners lost their jobs because of Saudi Arabian crude being burnt in China ..."


Why don't you brag some more about what a useless, clueless mass of human excrement you are? I'd like to hear more of that.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Saturday, November 26, 2016 6:36 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Obama urged Clinton to concede on election night

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/obama-urged-clinton-to-concede-on-elec
tion-night/ar-AAkLTND?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp


President Barack Obama called Hillary Clinton to persuade her to concede the White House on election night, according to a forthcoming book on Clinton's defeat.

Authors Amie Parnes, The Hill's senior White House correspondent, and Jonathan Allen cite three Clintonworld sources familiar with the election-night request in the unreleased book from Crown Publishing.

"You need to concede," Obama told his former secretary of State as she, her family, and her top aides continued to watch results trickle in from the key Rust Belt states of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. The latter state, called after 1:30 a.m. by The Associated Press, was the clear tipping point for the White House race, ensuring Trump would crest over the 270 electoral-vote threshold needed to win.

Clinton ultimately heeded Obama's advice and called Trump to acknowledge her defeat in the early morning hours Wednesday.

White House officials did not immediately return requests for comment Friday.

Obama's call left a sour taste in the mouths of some Clinton allies who believe she should have waited longer, and there's now a fight playing out between the Obama and Clinton camps over whether to support an effort to force the Rust Belt states to recount their votes.

Inside Clinton's room at the Peninsula Hotel in Manhattan, where aides were on the phone with boiler rooms at the campaign headquarters in Brooklyn and the Clintons' midtown office, there was still hope as election night stretched on. Their goal was to hold off as long as possible.

Obama's call changed that.

"There was a lot of discussion about Michigan and Wisconsin and whether the numbers could flip it," said one of the sources, all of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity. This source said the final numbers were so close that Clinton might not have placed her call to Trump without a push.

"If anybody knew what actually happened that night, no one would have conceded," the source said.

At the time, campaign Chairman John Podesta, a former Obama White House official, had been dispatched to Clinton's victory party at the Jacob Javits Center to deliver an anodyne statement leaving the result of the election unaddressed.

Before he returned, Clinton put an end to the debate among her inner circle by asking to talk to Trump.

"Just give me the phone," she said in frustration. "I'm calling him."

One of the Clintonworld sources said the campaign apparatus and the Democratic National Committee don't want to be officially affiliated with the push to re-tabulate votes because of the bad political optics of seeking to overturn the election results. At the same time, some of Clinton's allies are hopeful that Green Party candidate Jill Stein, who has raised several million dollars to fund recalculations, will be successful.

Stein officially filed a recount request in Wisconsin Friday afternoon, and her campaign has said she hopes to also push through recounts in Michigan and Pennsylvania. The Wisconsin Elections Commission said it has a Dec. 13 deadline to complete the recount of more than 2.9 million votes.

Podesta and Clinton campaign lawyer Marc Elias held a conference call last week with activists who believe it's possible the outcomes in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania were tampered with, according to New York Magazine.

But Obama allies are dead-set against the multi-state recount effort. Former Obama White House Communications Director Dan Pfeiffer mocked it on Twitter:

"The amount of Democratic energy and money being wasted on recounts instead of trying to win the Louisiana Senate Race is mind boggling," he tweeted on Thursday.


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, November 26, 2016 6:49 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Presidential electors planning to undermine Electoral College
www.msn.com/en-us/news/msn/report-presidential-electors-planning-to-un
dermine-electoral-college/ar-AAkCpkP?ocid=spartanntp


A number of Democratic Electoral College electors are planning to use their votes to undermine the election process in opposition to President-elect Donald Trump, Politico is reporting.

Some electors are lobbying their Republican counterparts to vote for someone other than Trump in an attempt to deny him the 270 votes required to elect him, according to the news outlet.

They are also contemplating whether to cast their votes for someone other than Hillary Clinton, like Mitt Romney or Gov. John Kasich (R-Ohio).

With at least six electors already vowing to become "faithless," the defection could be the most significant since 1808, when six Democratic-Republican electors refused to vote for James Madison, choosing vice presidential candidate George Clinton instead.

The electors acknowledge that it is unlikely that they will be able to block Trump from gaining office, Politico reported, but they are optimistic that their effort will raise enough questions about the Electoral College to reform or abolish it.

"If it gets into the House, the controversy and the uncertainty that would immediately blow up into a political firestorm in the U.S. would cause enough people - my hope is - to look at the whole concept of the Electoral College," one of the electors told Politico.

It's unclear how many, if any, Republicans have signed on to the effort.

Twenty-nine states legally require their electors to obey the results of the popular vote in their state.


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, November 26, 2016 9:22 AM

RIVERLOVE


Abolish the Electoral College? Sure, no problem. Amending the Constitution just needs 3/4 of the states and 2/3 of the House and Senate to agree. Piece of cake!

And Jill Stein's, I mean George Soros's, recount? Of course, go for it. What's another few million dollars to waste? I'm for ANYTHING that prolongs the misery and emotional dysfunction of Hillary supporters. And false hope is a lot better than no hope.

After all, these big-mouth know-it-alls have to be proven right. They were so sure they were right they laughed and laughed. They just can't be wrong!



Oh man, is that sweet or what! It's "Dewey defeats Truman" on steroids. Greatest comeuppance evah!

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Saturday, November 26, 2016 12:49 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well, SECOND, since you obviously have no honor and no shame (about lying, about being ignorant, about being caught with both over and over), and your judgment is unsound, I'm going to continue my efforts to at east give you the sense of shame you lack.

Expect the big red font. See 'ya later.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Saturday, November 26, 2016 1:58 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:They were so sure they were right they laughed and laughed. They just can't be wrong!


Cant really blame them. Trump did everything he coud to make himself look like an unelectable idiot.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Saturday, November 26, 2016 2:37 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Well, SECOND, since you obviously have no honor and no shame (about lying, about being ignorant, about being caught with both over and over), and your judgment is unsound, I'm going to continue my efforts to at east give you the sense of shame you lack.

Expect the big red font. See 'ya later.

Talk about unsound judgment, 1kiki wrote Trump had no chance of winning based on a complete misunderstanding of how statistics work at http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/#now Probably 1kiki read that 35% probability of Trump winning as 35% of the popular vote would go to Trump, but there is really no way to know what goes on inside a spam-bot brain.


Now for the latest news:

Not from Hillary, but from her campaign: "Now that a recount is underway, we believe we have an obligation to the more than 64 million Americans who cast ballots for Hillary Clinton to participate in ongoing proceedings to ensure that an accurate vote count will be reported."

If Jill Stein had not started the recount, Hillary’s campaign would have done nothing. I call that a serious failure of enthusiasm. It is as if Hillary never cared about being President.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/clinton-campaign-counsel-well-particip
ate-in-recount/ar-AAkNhuS?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, November 26, 2016 6:03 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Cant really blame them. Trump did everything he coud to make himself look like an unelectable idiot. - JO


What does that say about Hillary, then that roughly half of the voting population chose an "unelectable idiot" over a tried-and-true establishment candidate?

SECOND, you were all for Hillary. It wasn't your enthusiasm that failed. But IMHO it wasn't Hillary's either. No amount of enthusiasm and identity politics could overcome the sick-and-tired feeling that so many people had about "more of the same". I really think this was a POLICY FAIL, not an enthusiasm fail. And if "more of the same" is forced down people's throats, there could be a serious revolt.

If you're going to blame someone, don't blame Hillary for her lack of drive, blame the DNC for their lack of faithfulness to their constituency.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

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Saturday, November 26, 2016 8:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


HERE SECOND LIES. AGAIN. Amazing. I remember very specifically and in detail asking SECOND how LOW Trump's chances would have to be to be considered safe enough. I asked about 30%, 25%, and 10% as examples. I NEVER, in all my posts, said that Trump had 'NO' chance of winning.

1kiki wrote Trump had no chance of winning

But then again, since all the polls were wrong (with the exception of USC/ LATimes - which I noted more than once as an outlier)... it wasn't my understanding of statistics that was at fault ...

... AS SECOND LIES AGAIN ...

based on a complete misunderstanding of how statistics work

... it was the numbers themselves that were skewed.

AMAZING SECOND! I think you broke your own record and got a two-fer in one sentence!

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

YES INDEED, SECOND goes on to post another lie!

Probably 1kiki read that 35% probability of Trump winning as 35% of the popular vote



For shame. SECOND. Well, I already know you have none. There is no lie so low that you won't stoop for it, no piece of go se so smelly that you won't embrace it, no dishonest tactic so disreputable that you won't use it.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Saturday, November 26, 2016 8:21 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

blame the DNC for their lack of faithfulness to their constituency
That's been going on since the days of Reagan's second term, when it became obvious the democrats' same-old-same-old was played out. But the democrats have been still working that angle, and have failed to come up with an answer for their constituency ever since then. But honestly, if they haven't managed in 30 years, they're not about to now. They're done. Some other party will be picking the democrat carcass.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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