Obama's Oval Office speech on terrorism: What do you think? by SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Have at it!

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Monday, December 7, 2015 11:10 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

In case you missed it, here is the TRANSCRIPT

THE PRESIDENT: Good evening. On Wednesday, 14 Americans were killed as they came together to celebrate the holidays. They were taken from family and friends who loved them deeply. They were white and black; Latino and Asian; immigrants and American-born; moms and dads; daughters and sons. Each of them served their fellow citizens and all of them were part of our American family.

Tonight, I want to talk with you about this tragedy, the broader threat of terrorism, and how we can keep our country safe.

The F.B.I. is still gathering the facts about what happened in San Bernardino, but here is what we know. The victims were brutally murdered and injured by one of their co-workers and his wife. So far, we have no evidence that the killers were directed by a terrorist organization overseas, or that they were part of a broader conspiracy here at home. But it is clear that the two of them had gone down the dark path of radicalization, embracing a perverted interpretation of Islam that calls for war against America and the West. They had stockpiled assault weapons, ammunition, and pipe bombs. So this was an act of terrorism, designed to kill innocent people.

Our nation has been at war with terrorists since Al Qaeda killed nearly 3,000 Americans on 9/11. In the process, we’ve hardened our defenses — from airports to financial centers, to other critical infrastructure. Intelligence and law enforcement agencies have disrupted countless plots here and overseas, and worked around the clock to keep us safe. Our military and counterterrorism professionals have relentlessly pursued terrorist networks overseas — disrupting safe havens in several different countries, killing Osama bin Laden, and decimating Al Qaeda’s leadership.

Over the last few years, however, the terrorist threat has evolved into a new phase. As we’ve become better at preventing complex, multifaceted attacks like 9/11, terrorists turned to less complicated acts of violence like the mass shootings that are all too common in our society. It is this type of attack that we saw at Fort Hood in 2009; in Chattanooga earlier this year; and now in San Bernardino. And as groups like ISIL grew stronger amidst the chaos of war in Iraq and then Syria, and as the Internet erases the distance between countries, we see growing efforts by terrorists to poison the minds of people like the Boston Marathon bombers and the San Bernardino killers.

For seven years, I’ve confronted this evolving threat each morning in my intelligence briefing. And since the day I took this office, I’ve authorized U.S. forces to take out terrorists abroad precisely because I know how real the danger is. As commander in chief, I have no greater responsibility than the security of the American people. As a father to two young daughters who are the most precious part of my life, I know that we see ourselves with friends and co-workers at a holiday party like the one in San Bernardino. I know we see our kids in the faces of the young people killed in Paris. And I know that after so much war, many Americans are asking whether we are confronted by a cancer that has no immediate cure.

Well, here’s what I want you to know: The threat from terrorism is real, but we will overcome it. We will destroy ISIL and any other organization that tries to harm us. Our success won’t depend on tough talk, or abandoning our values, or giving into fear. That’s what groups like ISIL are hoping for. Instead, we will prevail by being strong and smart, resilient and relentless, and by drawing upon every aspect of American power.

Here’s how. First, our military will continue to hunt down terrorist plotters in any country where it is necessary. In Iraq and Syria, airstrikes are taking out ISIL leaders, heavy weapons, oil tankers, infrastructure. And since the attacks in Paris, our closest allies — including France, Germany, and the United Kingdom — have ramped up their contributions to our military campaign, which will help us accelerate our effort to destroy ISIL.

Second, we will continue to provide training and equipment to tens of thousands of Iraqi and Syrian forces fighting ISIL on the ground so that we take away their safe havens. In both countries, we’re deploying Special Operations forces who can accelerate that offensive. We’ve stepped up this effort since the attacks in Paris, and we’ll continue to invest more in approaches that are working on the ground.

Third, we’re working with friends and allies to stop ISIL’s operations — to disrupt plots, cut off their financing, and prevent them from recruiting more fighters. Since the attacks in Paris, we’ve surged intelligence-sharing with our European allies. We’re working with Turkey to seal its border with Syria. And we are cooperating with Muslim-majority countries — and with our Muslim communities here at home — to counter the vicious ideology that ISIL promotes online.

Fourth, with American leadership, the international community has begun to establish a process — and timeline — to pursue cease-fires and a political resolution to the Syrian war. Doing so will allow the Syrian people and every country, including our allies, but also countries like Russia, to focus on the common goal of destroying ISIL — a group that threatens us all.

This is our strategy to destroy ISIL. It is designed and supported by our military commanders and counterterrorism experts, together with 65 countries that have joined an American-led coalition. And we constantly examine our strategy to determine when additional steps are needed to get the job done. That’s why I’ve ordered the departments of State and Homeland Security to review the visa waiver program under which the female terrorist in San Bernardino originally came to this country. And that’s why I will urge high-tech and law enforcement leaders to make it harder for terrorists to use technology to escape from justice.

Now, here at home, we have to work together to address the challenge. There are several steps that Congress should take right away.

To begin with, Congress should act to make sure no one on a no-fly list is able to buy a gun. What could possibly be the argument for allowing a terrorist suspect to buy a semiautomatic weapon? This is a matter of national security.

We also need to make it harder for people to buy powerful assault weapons like the ones that were used in San Bernardino. I know there are some who reject any gun safety measures. But the fact is that our intelligence and law enforcement agencies — no matter how effective they are — cannot identify every would-be mass shooter, whether that individual is motivated by ISIL or some other hateful ideology. What we can do — and must do — is make it harder for them to kill.

Next, we should put in place stronger screening for those who come to America without a visa so that we can take a hard look at whether they’ve traveled to warzones. And we’re working with members of both parties in Congress to do exactly that.

Finally, if Congress believes, as I do, that we are at war with ISIL, it should go ahead and vote to authorize the continued use of military force against these terrorists. For over a year, I have ordered our military to take thousands of airstrikes against ISIL targets. I think it’s time for Congress to vote to demonstrate that the American people are united, and committed, to this fight.

My fellow Americans, these are the steps that we can take together to defeat the terrorist threat. Let me now say a word about what we should not do.

We should not be drawn once more into a long and costly ground war in Iraq or Syria. That’s what groups like ISIL want. They know they can’t defeat us on the battlefield. ISIL fighters were part of the insurgency that we faced in Iraq. But they also know that if we occupy foreign lands, they can maintain insurgencies for years, killing thousands of our troops, draining our resources, and using our presence to draw new recruits.

The strategy that we are using now — airstrikes, Special Forces, and working with local forces who are fighting to regain control of their own country — that is how we’ll achieve a more sustainable victory. And it won’t require us sending a new generation of Americans overseas to fight and die for another decade on foreign soil.

Here’s what else we cannot do. We cannot turn against one another by letting this fight be defined as a war between America and Islam. That, too, is what groups like ISIL want. ISIL does not speak for Islam. They are thugs and killers, part of a cult of death, and they account for a tiny fraction of more than a billion Muslims around the world — including millions of patriotic Muslim Americans who reject their hateful ideology. Moreover, the vast majority of terrorist victims around the world are Muslim. If we’re to succeed in defeating terrorism we must enlist Muslim communities as some of our strongest allies, rather than push them away through suspicion and hate.

That does not mean denying the fact that an extremist ideology has spread within some Muslim communities. This is a real problem that Muslims must confront, without excuse. Muslim leaders here and around the globe have to continue working with us to decisively and unequivocally reject the hateful ideology that groups like ISIL and Al Qaeda promote; to speak out against not just acts of violence, but also those interpretations of Islam that are incompatible with the values of religious tolerance, mutual respect, and human dignity.

But just as it is the responsibility of Muslims around the world to root out misguided ideas that lead to radicalization, it is the responsibility of all Americans — of every faith — to reject discrimination. It is our responsibility to reject religious tests on who we admit into this country. It’s our responsibility to reject proposals that Muslim Americans should somehow be treated differently. Because when we travel down that road, we lose. That kind of divisiveness, that betrayal of our values plays into the hands of groups like ISIL. Muslim Americans are our friends and our neighbors, our co-workers, our sports heroes — and, yes, they are our men and women in uniform who are willing to die in defense of our country. We have to remember that.

My fellow Americans, I am confident we will succeed in this mission because we are on the right side of history. We were founded upon a belief in human dignity — that no matter who you are, or where you come from, or what you look like, or what religion you practice, you are equal in the eyes of God and equal in the eyes of the law.

Even in this political season, even as we properly debate what steps I and future presidents must take to keep our country safe, let’s make sure we never forget what makes us exceptional. Let’s not forget that freedom is more powerful than fear; that we have always met challenges — whether war or depression, natural disasters or terrorist attacks — by coming together around our common ideals as one nation, as one people. So long as we stay true to that tradition, I have no doubt America will prevail.

Thank you. God bless you, and may God bless the United States of America

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Monday, December 7, 2015 3:53 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Second, we will continue to provide training and equipment to tens of thousands of Iraqi and Syrian forces fighting ISIL on the ground so that we take away their safe havens. In both countries, we’re deploying Special Operations forces who can accelerate that offensive. We’ve stepped up this effort since the attacks in Paris, and we’ll continue to invest more in approaches that are working on the ground.

I don't have an opinion, but Jayne certainly does. He retweeted today:

Adam Baldwin Retweeted
Marine Corps Times @Marinetimes 4 hours ago
Obama's speech earns low marks from critics http://ow.ly/38LKNE

Adam Baldwin Retweeted
Commentary Magazine @Commentary 5 hours ago
Two Obama Speeches, Both Disasters - by @noahcrothman - http://bit.ly/1IPH2jY

To put Adam Baldwin into context, I have Devin Nunes, the Republican chairman of the House Committee on Intelligence. Nunes explains that conservative media, and Adam Baldwin's retweets ARE from that media, has grown to a point where it's actively harming conservative policymaking, because the conservative grassroots have become inundated with false information that leads them to put pressure on conservative members of Congress to say things that aren't grounded in reality. Nunes says that these days only a small portion of what he hears from constituents is "based on something that is mostly true":

"I used to spend ninety per cent of my constituent response time on people who call, e-mail, or send a letter, such as, ‘I really like this bill, H.R. 123,’ and they really believe in it because they heard about it through one of the groups that they belong to, but their view was based on actual legislation," Nunes said. "Ten per cent were about ‘Chemtrails from airplanes are poisoning me’ to every other conspiracy theory that’s out there. And that has essentially flipped on its head." The overwhelming majority of his constituent mail is now about the far-out ideas, and only a small portion is "based on something that is mostly true." He added, "It’s dramatically changed politics and politicians, and what they’re doing."
www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/12/14/a-house-divided?intcid=mod-most-
popular

http://ezbadfish.deviantart.com/art/Jayne-Cobb-203345969

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, December 7, 2015 4:50 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Here’s how. First, our military will continue to hunt down terrorist plotters in any country where it is necessary.
It would be so much more effective to go after the 'State sponsors' of terrorism. One of my coworkers voiced this equation: 'one terrorist attack means you lose one oil field'. I think that would get the message across quickly.

... terrorists turned to less complicated acts of violence like the mass shootings that are all too common in our society.
But somehow, we only seem to care about them when the word Muslim is attached. As the NYTimes pointed out, we have roughly one mass shooting per day. Some even have a religion attached to them, like the Planned Parenthood attack. But we don't seem to care about them if Christianity is the motivating religion. Or if it's motivated by drug territory. Or 'sovereign state' ideology. No, it only counts if the word Muslim is attached.

First, our military will continue to hunt down terrorist plotters in any country where it is necessary.
Saudi Arabia? Turkey? In places where we support 'moderate' terrorists like al Qaeda because we're looking for some other kind of geopolitical result? Did he really mean in ANY country? I doubt it. In (Iraq and Syria), we’re deploying Special Operations forces ... putting your troops in a sovereign nation without their permission is considered an act of aggression. How would we feel if Mexico deployed its Federales in Phoenix, or started bombing locations in the US, in pursuit of drug dealers? Oh well, what's a few details!

... intelligence-sharing ... I will urge high-tech and law enforcement leaders to make it harder for terrorists to use technology to escape from justice.
Yes. Rather than go after the countries that have been exporting and funding terrorism for decades - let's treat every citizen like a criminal and spy on them, their purchases, finances, phone calls and internet use 24/7! Because not only did it work so well to protect us from the San Bernardino attack, it also protected us from the other 364 attacks that happened during the year!

Thank you. God bless you, and may God bless the United States of America

This is the meme we've been hearing since Bush's 9/11 failure. That the only way to confront terrorism is to go after (some of) the terrorists, and to spy on everyone.

It's a failed perspective, and a failed strategy. Terrorism doesn't happen on the scale it exists at today without millions, even billions in money. You're not going to stop it till you're committed to going after ALL of its financiers, arms suppliers and safe havens.
And spying on everyone hasn't kept us safe - a year's worth! of mass shootings proves it - but it certainly made us all far less free.

I can't imagine the people in government don't know that.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, December 7, 2015 5:42 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

I can't imagine the people in government don't know that.

I can't imagine that knowing makes any difference. It is very clear that failure is acceptable, so long as your failure was because you were following approved methods.

Follow the trail of your predecessors and fail in the same ways as they failed and you will be okay. But get off the well-worn trail and fail in a new way and your career is over. That is the guiding principle of mediocrity in government and the military.

http://phoenix-cry.deviantart.com/art/I-ve-been-out-geeked-418546734

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, December 7, 2015 6:05 PM

WHOZIT

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Monday, December 7, 2015 6:17 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Follow the trail of your predecessors and fail in the same ways as they failed and you will be okay. But get off the well-worn trail and fail in a new way and your career is over. That is the guiding principle of mediocrity in government and the military.

Touché!

FWIW recently I've been involved in very tediously reviewing federal methods. Now, everyone knows that how you sample these various samples can make a difference of a factor of two (or more) in the result you get; facts established in the data as long ago as 1970.
But, rather than investigate and do the hard thinking about 'what are we really trying to measure' and 'how should we best do that' the feds are following the contractor's lead (cough Battelle cough) and doubling down on minutia. Should we not allow 2.0C and reduce it to 1.0C? How about if we specify a maximum time of 72 hours instead of leaving it unstated?
It kinda drives me crazy. It's going to be not only a missed opportunity, but it's going to set in stone the wrong direction that was taken at the outset.

But that's, I believe, a case of misguided and lazy bureaucracy, failing in the same way as before, with a flourish!

The government has spent CONSIDERABLE money to store all available data (Utah data center) and to defend its practice of collecting and keeping all phone and inet communications - at the very least -- all under the guise of the gwot. (I'm sure if we got the full Snowden data, we'd find a lot more.)

That doesn't happen by accident, I don't believe.

What would be the reason to collect so much info on everyone?

Anyway, I have some things I need to get to and don't have the time to go further, right now.

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Monday, December 7, 2015 6:22 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

hmm ...

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Monday, December 7, 2015 6:23 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

hmm ... the site, or my computer, is spitting old screens back to me as new ones, at random ...

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Tuesday, December 8, 2015 8:58 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Retired U.S. Army Lt. Col. Ralph Peters called President Obama “a total pussy”

You know Ralph from the Simpsons? He grew up to be Lt. Col. Ralph Peters, retired.
I got an opinion: If Ralph can be an officer, I see why the U.S. Army lost Iraq.

http://enigmaticaunlocked.deviantart.com/art/D20-Girls-Lightsaber-Duel
-349412456

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, December 8, 2015 10:30 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
That's your brain, dearie. You've been mainlining aspartame again.- G

Quote:
[Did you know: Crimea = Ukraine = Kiki = Dummkopf? - G

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60002&p=5

At this point, "G" has - literally- nothing to contribute except name-calling. I suggest that we put "G" in an extended time-out. I know that tit-for-tat is a strategy which rewards cooperation, but the problem with tit-for-tat is that in order for to work, the player MUST KNOW the "rewards" which drive the other player. The original t4t version assumes that both players share rewards and punishments. In "G'S" case, I think he's just looking for attention. And, like all ADHD kids, he will troll the internet until he gets what he wants, because even negative attention is better than none at all.

So- I'm not responding to G's trolling. Are you?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Tuesday, December 8, 2015 3:20 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"I would NEVER try and tell others what to post or who they should post to."

This didn't take long.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60255&mid=1
005691#1005691
"Go on Sig - we know all you want to do is tell us what you think - so go ahead, answer your own question."

Apparently NEVER try goes back to Monday, December 7, 2015 11:17 AM

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Tuesday, December 8, 2015 5:22 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

'G' claims:
I would 'NEVER try' and tell others what to post or who they should post to.

And yet here he his, doing what he says he would 'NEVER try' and do:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60255&mid=1
005691#1005691
Go on Sig - we know all you want to do is tell us what you think - so go ahead, answer your own question.

Apparently 'NEVER' goes back to Monday, December 7, 2015 11:17 AM when he 'tries' to tell Signy what to post. And also, I actually have to spell his own posts out to him.

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Tuesday, December 8, 2015 6:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

The President is flat wrong on the matter of denying citizens their 2nd Amendment Rights simply because they end up on a no-fly list.

The list is arbitrary, and there have been plenty of mistakes made where folks who have done absolutely nothing wrong , yet our dear leader would forbid them from exercising their rights w/ out any due process, what so ever.

Obama seems to think that a 'no - fly ' list is on par w/ the FBI's Top 10 most wanted. It isn't.

Over all, it was more of the same, all talk, no real leadership. More " I,I,I,... " and " Congress needs to get to work " crap.

And an interesting side note... why give his speech from a podium, and not the Resolute Desk ? Has ANY President given a speech from a podium while in the Oval Office ?

That seemed odd to me.

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Tuesday, December 8, 2015 8:36 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Actually, I agree. But it's for the reason that there are far more compelling reasons to restrict gun sales to most people.

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Wednesday, December 9, 2015 2:57 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr

I think the targeted strikes are going to at least keep ISIL bizzy, but a long term solution iz needed.

My best idea iz a modern version uv Empire.

Set up new American style gummits in all theze marjinal countryz, turning them into territoryz uv the US. Not exactly new states, like Alaska etc, but closely associated commonwelths like Puerto Rico. That woud end the wide open ungoverned terrorist breeding groundz you find in jiant slumz like Afganistan, Syria, Libia, Pakistan, etc.

Create a standardized Gumit Incorporated to replase the dictatorz and bogus prezidents.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Wednesday, December 9, 2015 3:21 AM

Well, it's a site better than calling to ban ALL Muslims.

SGG

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Wednesday, December 9, 2015 9:05 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
In case you missed it, here is the TRANSCRIPT

THE PRESIDENT: We’re working with Turkey to seal its border with Syria. And we are cooperating with Muslim-majority countries — and with our Muslim communities here at home — to counter the vicious ideology that ISIL promotes online.

Obama mentioned Turkey once in the speech. He ought to have said more:

In the region, everyone knows how Isis could be eliminated. All it would really take would be to unleash the largely Kurdish forces of the YPG (Democratic Union party) in Syria, and PKK (Kurdistan Workers’ party) guerillas in Iraq and Turkey. These are, currently, the main forces actually fighting Isis on the ground. They have proved extraordinarily militarily effective and oppose every aspect of Isis’s reactionary ideology.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/22/kurds-shaping-middle-eas
t-syria-autonomy

But instead, YPG-controlled territory in Syria finds itself placed under a total embargo by Turkey, and PKK forces are under continual bombardment by the Turkish air force. Not only has Erdogan done almost everything he can to cripple the forces actually fighting Isis; there is considerable evidence that his government has been at least tacitly aiding Isis itself.

It might seem outrageous to suggest that a Nato member like Turkey would in any way support an organisation that murders western civilians in cold blood. That would be like a Nato member supporting al-Qaida. But in fact there is reason to believe that Erdogan’s government does support the Syrian branch of al-Qaida (Jabhat al-Nusra) too, along with any number of other rebel groups that share its conservative Islamist ideology.
www.nytimes.com/2015/08/27/opinion/americas-dangerous-bargain-with-tur
key.html

The Institute for the Study of Human Rights at Columbia University has compiled a long list of evidence of Turkish support for Isis in Syria.
www.huffingtonpost.com/david-l-phillips/research-paper-isis-turke_b_61
28950.html

Obama missed an opportunity to talk Turkey. It would have only taken two seconds.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/18/turkey-cut-islamic-state
-supply-lines-erdogan-isis?CMP=share_btn_fb

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Thursday, December 10, 2015 4:34 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The President is flat wrong on the matter of denying citizens their 2nd Amendment Rights simply because they end up on a no-fly list.

The list is arbitrary, and there have been plenty of mistakes made where folks who have done absolutely nothing wrong , yet our dear leader would forbid them from exercising their rights w/ out any due process, what so ever.

Obama seems to think that a 'no - fly ' list is on par w/ the FBI's Top 10 most wanted. It isn't.

Over all, it was more of the same, all talk, no real leadership. More " I,I,I,... " and " Congress needs to get to work " crap.

And an interesting side note... why give his speech from a podium, and not the Resolute Desk ? Has ANY President given a speech from a podium while in the Oval Office ?

That seemed odd to me.

Agreed on the no-fly list.

Lack of leadership: It depends on what you think Obama's (and Bush's, and Clinton's... etc) goals really are. Maybe they're showing a tremendous amount of leadership- just not in a direction you agree with.

Yeah, podium from the Oval Office?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, December 11, 2015 3:46 AM

Now that our Armed Forces have accepted women to fight in the field of battle, perhaps we should send them to Iraq and have them trained by the women of the Pesh Merga.

SGG

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Friday, December 11, 2015 4:12 AM

I agree with Obama that people on the No-Fly list should not be able to get guns. If those on the No-Fly list disagree, they can always pursue their 2nd Amendment rights in the courts - due process, a simple fix. Prove, in a court of law, that you deserve that right.

Congress does need to "get to work" and here's one example: Adam Szubin.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/shelby-chooses-partisan-games
-over-isis-fight-584009283621

He has been nominated by the president to be the "Treasury Department's under secretary for terrorism and financial crimes," back in April 2015
and Congress refuses to confirm. His job is "vital to cut off ISIS financing and enforce Iran sanctions." The Banking Committee met in September to confirm and.............NOTHING, ZILCH, NADA!!!

Do they actually want to stop ISIS? We need to hit them on all fronts, so why the stall? The Republican dominated Congress can affect change by a
simple confirmation vote and yet here we are 9 months later with "our"
thumb up "our" ass.

And they call the president lame.

Leadership!? It's in the eye of the beholder, and the bullshit artists.
Cough, cough.....Trump......cough!

Oval Office Podium - try none other than President Kennedy!
(criticism of this is like a pimple on the BIG ass of politics.
It's so petty)

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The President is flat wrong on the matter of denying citizens their 2nd Amendment Rights simply because they end up on a no-fly list.

The list is arbitrary, and there have been plenty of mistakes made where folks who have done absolutely nothing wrong , yet our dear leader would forbid them from exercising their rights w/ out any due process, what so ever.

Obama seems to think that a 'no - fly ' list is on par w/ the FBI's Top 10 most wanted. It isn't.

Over all, it was more of the same, all talk, no real leadership. More " I,I,I,... " and " Congress needs to get to work " crap.

And an interesting side note... why give his speech from a podium, and not the Resolute Desk ? Has ANY President given a speech from a podium while in the Oval Office ?

That seemed odd to me.
Agreed on the no-fly list.

Lack of leadership: It depends on what you think Obama's (and Bush's, and Clinton's... etc) goals really are. Maybe they're showing a tremendous amount of leadership- just not in a direction you agree with.

Yeah, podium from the Oval Office?

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Friday, December 11, 2015 8:53 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I agree with Obama that people on the No-Fly list should not be able to get guns. If those on the No-Fly list disagree, they can always pursue their 2nd Amendment rights in the courts - due process, a simple fix. Prove, in a court of law, that you deserve that right.

There is no "due process" to either getting on, or getting your name removed from, the no-fly list.
https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-you-think-youre-no-fl
y-list

Quote:
Congress does need to "get to work" and here's one example: Adam Szubin.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/shelby-chooses-partisan-games
-over-isis-fight-584009283621]

What can Congress "do" to save us from terrorism? Well, except for declaring and open-ended war on terror (again), the reality is that Congress doesn't have much control over foreign policy.

Quote:
The president, or executive branch, has the power to initiate as well as implement foreign policy through responses to foreign events, proposals for legislation, negotiation of international agreements, nomination of leading foreign policy officials, and statements of policy. Congressional approval is needed for spending, and consent is required for finalizing of trade agreements. More ambiguous are war powers, which are spelled out more clearly for Congress but in practice are dominated by presidential action.

http://www.cfr.org/united-states/congress-us-foreign-policy/p29871

Quote:
Do they actually want to stop ISIS?

I dunno! Good question! But I wonder about the President too.

Quote:
Oval Office Podium - try none other than President Kennedy!
(criticism of this is like a pimple on the BIG ass of politics.
It's so petty)

It IS petty. My comment was that it seemed a little unusual, not that it was bad.

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Friday, December 11, 2015 9:35 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

The cynic in me wants to rewrite Obama's speech into something more realistic ...

Quote:
THE PRESIDENT: Good evening. On Wednesday, 14 Americans were killed as they came together to celebrate the holidays. They were taken from family and friends who loved them deeply. They were white and black; Latino and Asian; immigrants and American-born; moms and dads; daughters and sons. Each of them served their fellow citizens and all of them were part of our American family.

Tonight, I want to talk with you about this tragedy, the broader threat of terrorism, and how we can keep our country safe.

The F.B.I. is still gathering the facts about what happened in San Bernardino, but here is what we know. The victims were brutally murdered and injured by one of their co-workers and his wife. So far, we have no evidence that the killers were directed by a terrorist organization overseas, or that they were part of a broader conspiracy here at home. But it is clear that the two of them had gone down the dark path of radicalization, embracing a perverted interpretation of Islam that calls for war against America and the West. They had stockpiled assault weapons, ammunition, and pipe bombs. So this was an act of terrorism, designed to kill innocent people.

Our nation has been at war with terrorists since Al Qaeda killed nearly 3,000 Americans on 9/11.

Before that, we either funded or ignored them.

Quote:
In the process, we’ve hardened our defenses — from airports to financial centers, to other critical infrastructure. Intelligence and law enforcement agencies have disrupted countless plots here and overseas, and worked around the clock to keep us safe. Our military and counterterrorism professionals have relentlessly pursued terrorist networks overseas — disrupting safe havens in several different countries, killing Osama bin Laden, and decimating Al Qaeda’s leadership.

However, it has all been pretty ineffective.

Quote:
Over the last few years, however, the terrorist threat has evolved into a new phase. As we’ve become better at preventing complex, multifaceted attacks like 9/11,

Or at least better at claiming that we've prevented attacks, since I can't point to a single complex attack that we prevented which wasn't at the same time encouraged by our undercover operatives ...

Quote:
terrorists turned to less complicated acts of violence like the mass shootings that are all too common in our society. It is this type of attack that we saw at Fort Hood in 2009; in Chattanooga earlier this year; and now in San Bernardino. And as groups like ISIL grew stronger amidst the chaos of war in Iraq and then Syria,

Libya, Sudan, Yemen, and Afghanistan - which we precipitated -

Quote:
and as the Internet erases the distance between countries, we see growing efforts by terrorists to poison the minds of people like the Boston Marathon bombers and the San Bernardino killers.

For seven years, I’ve confronted this evolving threat each morning in my intelligence briefing. And since the day I took this office, I’ve authorized U.S. forces to take out terrorists abroad precisely because I know how real the danger is.

And because our deep foreign policy and our dependence on Saudi oil and Saudi Treasury purchases makes it impossible for us to do anything other than peck at a few sidelined or unimportant individuals, rather than take on a comprehensive foreign policy against terrorism.

Quote:
As commander in chief, I have no greater responsibility than the security of the American people. As a father to two young daughters who are the most precious part of my life, I know that we see ourselves with friends and co-workers at a holiday party like the one in San Bernardino. I know we see our kids in the faces of the young people killed in Paris. And I know that after so much war, many Americans are asking whether we are confronted by a cancer that has no immediate cure.

Well, here’s what I want you to know: The threat from terrorism is real, but we will overcome it. We will destroy ISIL and any other organization that tries to harm us. Our success won’t depend on tough talk, or abandoning our values, or giving into fear.

although we've done all three, and worse.

Quote:
That’s what groups like ISIL are hoping for. Instead, we will prevail by being strong and smart, resilient and relentless, and by drawing upon every aspect of American power.

And we will use that power to do pointless things like bully the French into giving up their contracts with Russia, or block the South Stream pipeline, or aggressively patrol the South China Sea. Our war on Terror will be as relentless and pointless and unsuccessful as our War on Drugs. Because, really, we don't want to solve either problem.

Quote:
Here’s how. First, our military will continue to hunt down terrorist plotters in any country where it is necessary.

Because, when ISIL is gaining tens of thousands of foreign recruits every year, nothing says "resolve" like pecking away at a few individuals here and there.

Quote:
In Iraq and Syria,

Russian

Quote:
airstrikes are taking out ISIL leaders, heavy weapons, oil tankers, infrastructure. And since the attacks in Paris, our closest allies — including France, Germany, and the United Kingdom — have ramped up their

optical

Quote:
contributions to our military campaign, which will help us accelerate our effort to destroy ISIL.

in Iraq and Syria, where we have not been invited, and where we have assiduously avoided doing any real damage to ISIL's infrastructure while preventing anyone other actors from taking effective action against our allies' pet terrorists.

Quote:
Second, we will continue to provide training and equipment to tens of thousands of Iraqi and Syrian forces fighting

for

Quote:
ISIL on the ground so that we create their safe havens. In both countries, we’re deploying Special Operations forces who can accelerate that offensive

goal

Quote:
We’ve stepped up this effort since the attacks in Paris, and we’ll continue to invest more in

looking like we're using

Quote:
approaches that are working on the ground.

Third, we’re working with friends and allies to stop ISIL’s operations — to disrupt plots, cut off their financing, and prevent them from recruiting more fighters. Since the attacks in Paris, we’ve surged intelligence-sharing with our European allies. We’re

pretending to

Quote:
work with Turkey to seal its border with Syria. And we are cooperating with Muslim-majority countries — and with our Muslim communities here at home — to counter the vicious ideology that ISIL promotes online

Especially our Saudi and Qatari friends, who have invested billions of dollars to spread Wahhabism abroad. They promise to say publicly that they're stopping, really.

Quote:
Fourth,

despite our best efforts to topple Assad via terrorist proxies in Syria, with Russian

Quote:
leadership, the international community has begun to establish a process — and timeline — to pursue cease-fires and a political resolution to the Syrian war. Doing so will allow the Syrian people and every country, including our allies, but also countries like

America

Quote:
to focus on the common goal of

pretending like we never had anything to do with ISIL, if we think we can get away with getting you to accept "reasonable" terrorists, like al Qaeda.

Quote:
This is our strategy to

pretend to

Quote:
destroy ISIL. It is designed and supported by our military commanders and counterterrorism experts

except many who've written an open whistle-blowing letter objecting to our administration's optimistic rewrites of their evaluations

Quote:
together with 65 countries that have joined an American-led coalition. And we constantly examine our strategy to determine when additional steps are needed to get the job done.

of secretly supporting ISIL and all affiliated terrorists without looking like that's what we're doing.

But, what do Syria and Iraq and Libya and Sudan and Yemen and Afghanistan have to do with our internal security anyway? I've used most of this speech to pump a foreign policy without really addressing your concerns!

Quote:
That’s why I’ve ordered the departments of State and Homeland Security to review the visa waiver program under which the female terrorist in San Bernardino originally came to this country. And that’s why I will urge high-tech and law enforcement leaders to make it harder for terrorists to use technology to escape from justice.

Which means more snooping. Get used to it.

Quote:
Now, here at home, we have to work together to address the challenge. There are several steps that Congress should take right away.

To begin with, Congress should act to make sure no one on a no-fly list is able to buy a gun. What could possibly be the argument for allowing a terrorist suspect to buy a semiautomatic weapon?

Did you like the way I conflated "guns" with "semi-automatic weapons"? Yeah, I thought so too!

Quote:
This is a matter of

spinning the narrative.

Quote:
We also need to make it harder for people to buy powerful assault weapons like the ones that were used in San Bernardino. I know there are some who reject any gun safety measures

like universal gun registration laws

Quote:
But the fact is that our intelligence and law enforcement agencies — no matter how effective they are — cannot identify every would-be mass shooter, whether that individual is motivated by ISIL or some other hateful ideology. What we can do — and must do — is make it harder for them to kill.

Next, we should put in place stronger screening for those who come to America without a visa so that we can take a hard look at whether they’ve traveled to warzones. And we’re working with members of both parties in Congress to do exactly that.

Why we never did that before is a question I hope you never ask.

Quote:
Finally, if Congress believes, as I do, that we are at war with ISIL

like we're at war with "terrorism" and at war with "drugs"

Quote:
it should go ahead and vote to authorize the continued use of military force against these terrorists. For over a year, I have ordered our military to take thousands of airstrikes against ISIL targets. I think it’s time for Congress to vote to demonstrate that the American people are united, and committed, to this fight.

Because nothing says "fighting ISIL" like bombing everything but.

Quote:
My fellow Americans, these are the steps that we can

pretend to

Quote:
take together to defeat the terrorist threat. Let me now say a word about what we should not do.

We should not be drawn once more into a long and costly ground war in Iraq or Syria. That’s what groups like ISIL want. They know they

can

Quote:
defeat us on the battlefield. ISIL fighters were part of the insurgency that we faced in Iraq. But they also know that if we occupy foreign lands, they can maintain insurgencies for years, killing thousands of our troops, draining our resources, and using our presence to draw new recruits. The strategy that we are using now — airstrikes, Special Forces, and working with local forces

except refusing to cooperate with the really effective ones, and actively fighting some of them

Quote:
who are fighting to

gain

Quote:
control of their

entire

Quote:
country

in non-democratic coups.

Quote:
— that is how we’ll achieve a more sustainable

hegemony

Quote:
And it won’t require us sending a new generation of Americans overseas to fight and die for another decade on foreign soil.

Here’s what else we cannot do. We cannot turn against one another by letting this fight be defined as a war between America and Islam. That, too, is what groups like ISIL want. ISIL does not speak for Islam. They are thugs and killers, part of a cult of death, and they account for a tiny fraction of more than a billion Muslims around the world — including millions of patriotic Muslim Americans who reject their hateful ideology. Moreover, the vast majority of terrorist victims around the world are Muslim. If we’re to succeed in defeating terrorism we must enlist Muslim communities as some of our strongest allies, rather than push them away through suspicion and hate.

Which is why I keep sucking up to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Turkey.

Quote:
That does not mean denying the fact that an extremist ideology has spread within some Muslim communities.

especially Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Turkey

Quote:
This is a real problem that Muslims must confront, without excuse. Muslim leaders here and around the globe have to continue working with us

and nobody else

Quote:
to decisively and unequivocally reject the hateful ideology that groups like ISIL and Al Qaeda promote; to speak out against not just acts of

international

Quote:
violence

which we serve as a powerful example of

Quote:
but also those interpretations of Islam that are incompatible with the values of religious tolerance, mutual respect, and human dignity.

Thank goodness they don't challenge us to speak out against bankers and capitalism and far-right Christian ideology and Zionism.

Quote:
But just as it is the responsibility of Muslims around the world to root out misguided ideas that lead to radicalization, it is the responsibility of all Americans — of every faith — to reject discrimination. It is our responsibility to reject religious tests on who we admit into this country. It’s our responsibility to reject proposals that Muslim Americans should somehow be treated differently. Because when we travel down that road, we lose. That kind of divisiveness, that betrayal of our values plays into the hands of groups like ISIL. Muslim Americans are our friends and our neighbors, our co-workers, our sports heroes — and, yes, they are our men and women in uniform who are willing to die in defense of our country. We have to remember that.

My fellow Americans, I am confident we will succeed in this mission because we are on the right side of history. We were founded upon a belief in human dignity — that no matter who you are, or where you come from, or what you look like, or what religion you practice, you are equal in the eyes of God and equal in the eyes of the law.

Even in this political season, even as we properly debate

and never implement the proper

Quote:
steps I and future presidents must take to keep our country safe, let’s make sure we never forget what makes us exceptional:

Our military.

Quote:
Let’s not forget that freedom

to bomb nations and break international laws

Quote:
is a powerful fear; that we have always met challenges — whether war or depression, natural disasters or terrorist attacks — by coming together around our common ideals as one nation, as one people:

Violence

Quote:
So long as we stay true to that tradition, I doubt America will prevail.

Thank you.

And here is my fatuous sop to the religiously-minded everywhere:

Quote:
God bless you, and may God bless the United States of America

I howled with laughter when I read this drivel. I laughed so hard, tears ran down my legs!

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Friday, December 11, 2015 9:56 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Obama mentioned Turkey once in the speech. He ought to have said more

I agree with you that he ought to have, but then... he really couldn't. Turkey is a member of NATO and an ally in deposing Assad.

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Saturday, December 12, 2015 2:49 AM

-The ACLU article describes a procedure by which you can, as an American citizen, challenge the No-Fly list, if you find yourself on it and you're just Joe Blow from OshKosh, Wisconsin. This is what I'm saying, there is a process.

-Again, your answer is off the mark. Congress can "do" something by approving the selection of Szubin and allow him to choke off the financial backing of ISIS. What foreign policy? This is purely a financial weapon and part of a multi-faceted attack to bring down the terror group. Imagine if your husband tells you he's going to fix the leaky faucet and then he proceeds to watch football all weekend; then you call the plumber but he insists he'll get around to it............well, you get the picture. Hire him and let the plumber do his job, especially if he's qualified

"Chairman Richard Shelby (R-Ala.) praised his past work in countering terrorist financing during his time with both Republican and Democratic administrations."

Senate Banking Committee Chair also said "He is eminently qualified for this,"

But Szubin's nomination hasn't moved since. There's no clear reason why, beyond trying to make it difficult for President Barack Obama to fill administration posts.

(Source: Huffington Post, Jennifer Bendery, 11/18/15)

-The article that you posted refers to Congress' Foreign Policy powers, but also their ongoing push/pull over these matters with the president (no matter who's in office). It is obviously a subjective stance in regards to this president. In other words, they could choose to work with him on these issues. They have chosen partisan politics over the good of the nation. A sad state of affairs. For example, the sanctions involving Iran.

-Oval Office Podium: My guess is that Obama couldn't resist linking himself to the
recent past knowing that Kennedy was the last to do it (more on that below). That's just an educated guess, nothing more. Then there's this:

"We've long been told — and know intuitively — that standing up makes you look more powerful and confident. This is why phrases such as "stand up for yourself" and the aforementioned "not going to take this sitting down" exist in our culture. Obama's critics consistently call him weak on terrorism, which was part of the reason he spoke Sunday night. Standing up is a simple, unstated way for him to project strength.

More important to the president, however, might be what standing up does for his own comfort level. As we at The Fix noted before the speech (and before we knew Obama would be at the lectern), he seemed stiff and uncomfortable in his two previous Oval Office addresses, when he took the more traditional seated posture."

(Source: Washington Post, Callum Borchers, 12/7/15)

A deliberate and mindful approach that connotes strength, not bad for a "weak" president. According to The Blaze (12/7/15), Bush did it twice in September & October of 2005. Unusual, yes, but not unprecedented.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
I agree with Obama that people on the No-Fly list should not be able to get guns. If those on the No-Fly list disagree, they can always pursue their 2nd Amendment rights in the courts - due process, a simple fix. Prove, in a court of law, that you deserve that right.

There is no "due process" to either getting on, or getting your name removed from, the no-fly list.
https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-if-you-think-youre-no-fl
y-list

Quote:
Congress does need to "get to work" and here's one example: Adam Szubin.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/shelby-chooses-partisan-games
-over-isis-fight-584009283621]

What can Congress "do" to save us from terrorism? Well, except for declaring and open-ended war on terror (again), the reality is that Congress doesn't have much control over foreign policy.

Quote:
The president, or executive branch, has the power to initiate as well as implement foreign policy through responses to foreign events, proposals for legislation, negotiation of international agreements, nomination of leading foreign policy officials, and statements of policy. Congressional approval is needed for spending, and consent is required for finalizing of trade agreements. More ambiguous are war powers, which are spelled out more clearly for Congress but in practice are dominated by presidential action.

http://www.cfr.org/united-states/congress-us-foreign-policy/p29871

Quote:
Do they actually want to stop ISIS?
I dunno! Good question! But I wonder about the President too.

Quote:
Oval Office Podium - try none other than President Kennedy!
(criticism of this is like a pimple on the BIG ass of politics.
It's so petty)
It IS petty. My comment was that it seemed a little unusual, not that it was bad.

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Saturday, December 12, 2015 3:12 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Again, your answer is off the mark. Congress can "do" something by approving the selection of Szubin and allow him to choke off the financial backing of ISIS.

That's assuming that Szubin is interested in choking off ISIL's financial assets.

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Saturday, December 12, 2015 9:24 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The President is flat wrong on the matter of denying citizens their 2nd Amendment Rights simply because they end up on a no-fly list.

The list is arbitrary, and there have been plenty of mistakes made where folks who have done absolutely nothing wrong , yet our dear leader would forbid them from exercising their rights w/ out any due process, what so ever.

Obama seems to think that a 'no - fly ' list is on par w/ the FBI's Top 10 most wanted. It isn't.

Over all, it was more of the same, all talk, no real leadership. More " I,I,I,... " and " Congress needs to get to work " crap.

And an interesting side note... why give his speech from a podium, and not the Resolute Desk ? Has ANY President given a speech from a podium while in the Oval Office ?

That seemed odd to me.
Agreed on the no-fly list.

Lack of leadership: It depends on what you think Obama's (and Bush's, and Clinton's... etc) goals really are. Maybe they're showing a tremendous amount of leadership- just not in a direction you agree with.

Yeah, podium from the Oval Office?

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

If that isn't sarcasm, I'm going to have to pick myself up off the floor.

Sig and I AGREE on something ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, December 12, 2015 1:12 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Hey RAPPY! I think hell just froze over!

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Saturday, December 12, 2015 2:27 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Hey RAPPY! I think hell just froze over!

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I want this moment to last forever...

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Saturday, December 12, 2015 2:59 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

I want this moment to last forever...

The moment is over. Have you ever asked yourself why America isn't winning its wars?

It's easy to blame presidents for a lack of strategy, but a growing number of officials are saying that the fault lies with a lack of vision in the Pentagon. That's in the Pentagon, not in the White House, not in the State Department.

When Michael Vickers was making his name as the Central Intelligence Agency operative depicted in “Charlie Wilson’s War” – running a covert war against the Soviets in Afghanistan through Muslim jihadis – it was by no means a war of decision by committee.

It was the bold and resourceful work of a maverick.

The wisdom of that approach remains controversial – it vanquished the Soviets but planted the seeds for modern terrorism. Yet this week, Mr. Vickers, a former undersecretary for intelligence, told lawmakers that the qualities that guided him in Afghanistan have been in too-short supply in America’s recent warfighting. Put bluntly, American efforts to respond to the security challenges of today simply aren’t working.

“We are not postured as a [Defense] department, intellectually or organizationally, for these highly asymmetric and largely unconventional long-term challenges,” Vickers said in congressional testimony. “We are winning battles and campaigns, but not our wars.”

There is much more at:
www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2015/1211/Why-America-isn-t-winning-its
-wars

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Sunday, December 13, 2015 4:13 AM

Hmmmmm, that seems to be the idea. He's done it before.

"Szubin, who has an undergraduate degree from Harvard University and a law degree from Harvard Law School, has worked in the sanctions world for years. During the Bush administration, he served as counsel to the deputy attorney general at the Justice Department and later as senior adviser to the undersecretary for terrorism and financial crimes — the very job he is currently seeking.

Well, that answers that question. Assume away!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Again, your answer is off the mark. Congress can "do" something by approving the selection of Szubin and allow him to choke off the financial backing of ISIS.
That's assuming that Szubin is interested in choking off ISIL's financial assets.

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Sunday, December 13, 2015 4:43 AM

Here's some more info:

Adam J. Szubin spent both his undergraduate and graduate years at Harvard University, graduating magna cum laude from the college and cum laude from the law school. After his Fulbright scholarship, he returned to the states and clerked for Judge Ronal Gilman on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit. Moving into the Justice department, he served as a trial attorney for the Terrorism litigation Task force in the civil division of the Justice department before he became Counsel to the Deputy Attorney General and led the department’s efforts to combat terrorist financing. After his tenure at the Department of Justice, he worked as Senior Advisor to the Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence, and chaired the Money Laundering Threat Assessment Working Group. On August 1 2006, U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson named Adam J. Szubin the Director of OFAC.

If he's in on the NWO then we're screwed!

SGG

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Sunday, December 13, 2015 10:10 AM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Sig and I AGREE on something ?

Don't be a complete tool - she's so desperate for allies these days she's even trying to "recruit" you.

Personally, I want to argue for Rappy's right to remain a complete tool.

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Sunday, December 13, 2015 10:14 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Here's some more info:

Adam J. Szubin spent both his undergraduate and graduate years at Harvard University, graduating magna cum laude from the college and cum laude from the law school. After his Fulbright scholarship, he returned to the states and clerked for Judge Ronal Gilman on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit. Moving into the Justice department, he served as a trial attorney for the Terrorism litigation Task force in the civil division of the Justice department before he became Counsel to the Deputy Attorney General and led the department’s efforts to combat terrorist financing. After his tenure at the Department of Justice, he worked as Senior Advisor to the Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence, and chaired the Money Laundering Threat Assessment Working Group. On August 1 2006, U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson named Adam J. Szubin the Director of OFAC.

If he's in on the NWO then we're screwed!- SGG

Almost all politicians and appointees have illustrious educations and careers, but out of the top-level appointees and members of Congress, I can count on the fingers of two hands politicians/ appointees who still have this nation in mind.

There are degrees and degrees of corruption, some are at the instruction-giving end of the food-chain, and some are merely following orders. It takes an extraordinary person to NOT put their job/ election/ personal security first.

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Sunday, December 13, 2015 11:24 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Don't be a complete tool - she's so desperate for allies these days she's even trying to "recruit" you.- G

Since WHEN have I been "desperate for allies"? Unlike you, I don't believe in diving into an ideological circle-jerk just to feel safe.

You know that (to me) truth means "correspondence to reality", and as far as REALITY is concerned ... well, it is what it is. No amount of argument OR consensus will change it. I can point to MANY issues on which there was broad consensus, and where everyone was wrong. So I don't mind arguing with liberals and conservatives. I've disagreed with MAL4PREZ and NIKKI as well as RAPPY and GEEZER. If I lack "allies" it's due to my own actions here, which I'm not about to change.

Now, do you have anything to say ABOUT THE TOPIC?

I very much doubt it.

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Wednesday, December 23, 2015 5:33 AM

OMG you are a complete and utter pessimist. So then you must be one of those that support Trump and his brave new world approach. Yes, there are times when I feel that our elected officials are on the "take" and subscribe to the CYA philosophy of life, plus the overwhelming and,
at times, soul sucking power of our government policies, contribute to
their overall corruption.

The sheer weight of those government policies alone would crush ordinary men and women (look at Sarah Palin). It does take superhuman strength,
conviction and extraordinary will to serve in the public field. But, I guess since you KNOW that these folk, hell all politicians are either corrupt or incompetent - well then, what's the use of being a part of
the democratic system in this country?

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Here's some more info:

Adam J. Szubin spent both his undergraduate and graduate years at Harvard University, graduating magna cum laude from the college and cum laude from the law school. After his Fulbright scholarship, he returned to the states and clerked for Judge Ronal Gilman on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit. Moving into the Justice department, he served as a trial attorney for the Terrorism litigation Task force in the civil division of the Justice department before he became Counsel to the Deputy Attorney General and led the department’s efforts to combat terrorist financing. After his tenure at the Department of Justice, he worked as Senior Advisor to the Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence, and chaired the Money Laundering Threat Assessment Working Group. On August 1 2006, U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson named Adam J. Szubin the Director of OFAC.

If he's in on the NWO then we're screwed!- SGG
Almost all politicians and appointees have illustrious educations and careers, but out of the top-level appointees and members of Congress, I can count on the fingers of two hands politicians/ appointees who still have this nation in mind.

There are degrees and degrees of corruption, some are at the instruction-giving end of the food-chain, and some are merely following orders. It takes an extraordinary person to NOT put their job/ election/ personal security first.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Wednesday, December 23, 2015 8:52 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
OMG you are a complete and utter pessimist. So then you must be one of those that support Trump and his brave new world approach. Yes, there are times when I feel that our elected officials are on the "take" and subscribe to the CYA philosophy of life, plus the overwhelming and, at times, soul sucking power of our government policies, contribute to their overall corruption.

The sheer weight of those government policies alone would crush ordinary men and women (look at Sarah Palin). It does take superhuman strength, conviction and extraordinary will to serve in the public field. But, I guess since you KNOW that these folk, hell all politicians are either corrupt or incompetent - well then, what's the use of being a part of the democratic system in this country?

Good question. I wonder about that myself. Seriously.

Still, democracy CAN work with the intelligent application of the vote by the vast majority of the people. Because most people are distracted most of the time by trivia and identity politics, we have not ever come to the point where an important official was elected who was against the deep state. (Except maybe JFK.) What would happen if someone like that came close to getting elected? Would they even survive their candidacy?

Who I vote for depends on who's on the ticket. If Bernie Sanders doesn't make it on the ticket, I will NOT be voting for Hillary, that warmongering, lying neocon-bitch in a Democratic pantsuit! I guess my choices would be Trump (because he's so gorram rich he doesn't need to sell himself to the highest contributor) or Jill Stein (Green Party). But that needs more thought.

Tulsi Gabbard deserves a campaign contribution. So does Russ Feingold, who is running again for Senate.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, December 26, 2015 9:01 PM