REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Deaf signer at Mandela funeral a fake

POSTED BY: MAGONSDAUGHTER
UPDATED: Friday, December 13, 2013 17:26
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Wednesday, December 11, 2013 3:58 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


How Embarressing....

Quote:

A MAN who provided sign language interpretation for Barack Obama and other dignitaries at Nelson Mandela's memorial service was "a fake", according to multiple sign language experts.

Bruno Druchen, the national director of the Deaf Federation of South Africa, said the man, seen next to the US president and other world leaders, "was moving his hands around but there was no meaning in what he used his hands for."

"He's a complete fraud," said Cara Loening, director of Sign Language Education and Development in Cape Town.

The interpreter signing earlier in the ceremony. Picture: Supplied/Twitter

The interpreter signing earlier in the ceremony. Picture: Supplied/Twitter Source: NewsComAu
"He wasn't even doing anything, There was not one sign there. Nothing. He was literally flapping his arms around."

Local interpreter Francois Deysel said the man was "moving his arms (to) try look busy" in an "embarrassing" spectacle.

@BrunoDruchen please can someone ask the interpreter to step down from stage, it is embarrassing and making a mockery of our profession
— Francois (@FrancoisDeysel) December 10, 2013

Nicole Du Toit, another official sign language interpreter who also watched the broadcast, said in a telephone interview that the man on stage purporting to sign was an embarrassment.

"It was horrible, an absolute circus, really really bad," she said. "Only he can understand those gestures."

South African parliamentarian Wilma Newhoudt-Druchen, a deaf member of the ruling party, also said the man communicated nothing with his hand and arm movements.

@JacksonMthembu_ Cde, ANC is using a so called interpreter who cannot sign, is making up signs as seen at the memorial. Pls do something
— wilma newhoudt (@newhoudt) December 10, 2013

@Phronistesa I am a deaf South African, I know South African sign language. The deaf people are also telling me he's not signing or interp
— wilma newhoudt (@newhoudt) December 11, 2013

South African sign language covers all of the country's 11 official languages, according to the federation.

It wasn't immediately clear if the unidentified man was using a different method to communicate.

Loening said her organisation was getting mail from around the world "wondering what on earth this man was doing there".

"It's a real embarrassment. It's complete disrespect for the deaf community and for what Nelson Mandela stood for and the support which he gave toward the deaf community."

Jackson Mthembu, spokesman for the governing African National Congress party, declined to comment. "Government will be able to assist you," Mthembu said.

The South African government is preparing a statement.


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Wednesday, December 11, 2013 4:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Huh. That is interesting.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 11, 2013 4:01 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


And now for something completely UnPC


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Wednesday, December 11, 2013 4:32 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


That's the Doctor's Donna, isn't it ?

Heh heh.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 11, 2013 4:40 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Yes, Catherine Tate has had her own comedy series.

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Wednesday, December 11, 2013 7:22 PM

WHOZIT


How did an impersonator get that close to the President of the U.S.?

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Thursday, December 12, 2013 4:51 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Perhaps he was signing in Afrikkaner.......damn that's weird.
Who the hell hired that guy? Heads will roll.............


SGG

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Thursday, December 12, 2013 4:57 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


That's like an SNL skit gone terribly wrong.......

I could picture Chevy Chase or Will Ferrell saying that they will now
sign for POTUS while Obama tries to explain the ACA........lol

or

Amy Poehler and Tina Fey double-talking the Gettysburg Address

Saw a skit on Jimmy Kimmel where he had an interpreter/comedian translate
the signs that guy was giving, a somewhat funny skit, but.......... meh!


SGG

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Thursday, December 12, 2013 5:01 AM

REAVERFAN


He is apparently schizophrenic, and had an "episode." Whether or not he actually knows sign language is still a question.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-25345262

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Thursday, December 12, 2013 5:25 AM

AGENTROUKA


What a bizarre incident.


Negative: hugely embarrassing

Positive: raises awareness of sign language and how providing it with the proper care will make you look Not Stupid, as opposed to here.

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Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:10 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
That's like an SNL skit gone terribly wrong.......

I could picture Chevy Chase or Will Ferrell saying that they will now
sign for POTUS while Obama tries to explain the ACA........lol

or

Amy Poehler and Tina Fey double-talking the Gettysburg Address

Saw a skit on Jimmy Kimmel where he had an interpreter/comedian translate
the signs that guy was giving, a somewhat funny skit, but.......... meh!


SGG



Garret Morris ! ROFLMAO !!!




" OUR TOP STORY TONIGHT...!!! "


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:11 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Thank you for an excellent point, Rouka, one that never occurred to me.
Quote:

Mr Jantjie said he worked for a company called SA Interpreters, where he is a senior interpreter.

During the memorial, he was employed to stand on the stage next to key speakers such as US President Barack Obama and Mr Mandela's grandchildren, translating their eulogies.

His performance was watched on television by millions of people worldwide.

But he said that during the event, he lost concentration because of voices in his head.

"There was nothing I could do. I was alone in a very dangerous situation," Mr Jantjie told Johannesburg's Star newspaper.

"I tried to control myself and not show the world what was going on. I am very sorry. It's the situation I found myself in."

The South Africa's Translators' Institute said there had been complaints over Mr Jantjie's work before, but the ruling party took no action.
The government is investigating what happened



The man has my deepest sympathy, and has probably lost his job now, but it's a shame nobody caught it early enough to avoid the embarrassment. I don't know what he could have done except get off the stage--I wonder if that would have made more of a fuss in the news?

I'm sure Rap will find some way to make it Obama's fault...


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Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:16 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


To the contrary, Obama & all up there we're put in danger with this violent nut job in such close proximity. If anything, where the hell was our secret service intel on this guy? Background check much?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:47 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


"Violent nut job"...the mentally-ill community thanks you.

Certainly there's a problem, and it should be addressed.
Quote:

There were complaints last year after Jantjie interpreted the proceedings at the ruling African National Congress elective conference, the institute's chairman, Johan Blaauw, told the South African Press Association.

Jantjie declined to provide details about his hire for the four-hour memorial, watched by millions around the world, as a government inquiry looks into the matter.

He said he had been drawn to the job of interpreting because he was disabled.

"I am suffering from schizophrenia, which is controllable. I am under treatment," Jantjie said.

At a news conference Thursday, Hendrietta Bogopane-Zulu, South Africa's deputy minister of women, children and people with disabilities, admitted that mistakes had happened at the memorial service but added that Jantjie was not a "fake."

She said there was no sign language standard in South Africa and deaf people spoke different dialects.

She added that the government was looking into the vetting of Jantjie's security clearance at the memorial.

Bogopane-Zulu also said the government tracked down the company Jantjie worked for, but the owners "seemed to have vanished."

"We managed to get hold of them and then we spoke to them, wanting some answers, and they vanished into thin air," she said. "They have been providing substandard service for years."

Jantjie named his employer as a company called SA Interpreters. He did not give details about his training, saying his qualifications are filed with the company.

As outrage over his interpretation skills have grown, so have questions about who hired him.

The ANC said it did not hire Jantjie for the service, as it was the state that had organized the memorial.

"The processes that were followed to procure Mr. Jantjie's services were thus government processes and not ANC processes," the ruling party said in a prepared statement, adding that it had used his services before.

"It is important to make the point that, up until yesterday, the African National Congress had not been aware of any of complaints regarding the quality of services, qualifications or reported illnesses of Mr Jantjie."

Jantjie said he was proud to receive a call saying he would be interpreting at the memorial for the revered statesman. Asked who had called him to tell him he would be interpreting, he just said: "It is a lady that I am serving under."

He said the atmosphere on the day was "wonderful."

"It was a dream come true," he said, adding that he felt as if he had reached "the standard of the champion of the whole world."

At the service, at which world leaders from President Barack Obama to Cuba's Raul Castro spoke, he said he was doing South African sign language.

But the national director of the Deaf Federation of South Africa sees it differently. He said Jantjie had been dubbed a "fake interpreter."

"The deaf community is in outrage," said Bruno Druchen. "He is not known by the Deaf Community in South Africa nor by the South African Sign Language interpreters working in the field."

The man showed no facial expressions, which are key in South African sign language, and his hand signals were meaningless, Druchen said.

While dignitaries addressed the crowd at Johannesburg's FNB stadium, Jantjie produced a series of hand signals that experts said meant nothing.

"It was almost like he was doing baseball signs," deaf actress Marlee Matlin told CNN on Wednesday, through a sign language interpreter. "I was appalled."

Though each country has its own sign language, all of them entail facial expressions, she said. She called his lack of facial expression "a giveaway."

"I knew exactly right then and there that he wasn't authentic at all, and it was offensive; it was offensive to me." http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/12/world/africa/mandela-memorial-fake-intep
reter/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
]


Obviously it was a major snafu. But the vision Rap paints, of some deranged, violent maniac being allowed on stage with dignitaries? Contrast that with how it would feel to have an illness you work hard to control, to suddenly find yourself on the world's stage, halucinating, realizing your illness has taken control, fighting desperately to maintain calm, somehow do the best you can and get off stage.
Quote:

The man accused of faking sign interpretation while standing alongside world leaders like U.S. President Barack Obama at Nelson Mandela's memorial service said Thursday he hallucinated that angels were entering the stadium and suffers from schizophrenia.

Thamsanqa Jantjie said in a 45-minute interview with The Associated Press that his hallucinations began while he was interpreting and that he tried not to panic because there were “armed policemen around me.”

policemen around me.”

The deputy minister said the translation company offered sub-standard services, the rate they paid the translator was far below the normal levels and that in order to maintain the interpreter's concentration level, interpreters must be switched every 20 minutes. Jantjie was on the stage for the entire service that lasted more than three hours.

“What happened that day, I see angels come to the stadium ... I start realizing that the problem is here. And the problem, I don't know the attack of this problem, how will it comes. Sometimes I will see things that chase me,” Jantjie said.

“I was in a very difficult position,” he added. “And remember those people, they were armed, there was armed police around me. If I start panicking I'll start being a problem. I have to deal with this in a manner so that I mustn't embarrass my country.” http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/12/12/deaf_interpreter_at_mande
la_memorial_saw_angels_has_been_violent.html




I have schizophrenic friends, I've worked with schizophrenics. They are good people, just like you and me, and most of the time they function just fine, hold good jobs, are intelligent, rational human beings. It's a horrible illness, and it's an ILLNESS--it would be the same as if an epileptic dignitary were there to give a speech, stepped up to the podium and had a seizure, and fell down twitching. The stigma of mental illness doesn't change the fact that it's an ILLNESS--he didn't just suddenly decide to make meaningless gestures because he's some kind of "violent nut job", but Rap's characterization of him as such is a CLEAR indication of Rap's own mentality.

I question whether this person should be doing the job he does, given he's apparently had problems in the past as well. I also SERIOUSLY question why one interpreter was allowed to work the entire three-hour ceremony--the stress on anyone of standing on stage for three hours would be enormous! And I question whatever procedure resulted in his company being hired and him being hired, given there had been problems in the past. But beyond that, it's a governmental snafu, period.

Yes, this gentleman has had some violent experiences in the past, I'm sure Rap will be in quickly to detail all of that and probably make further disgusting statements. Shockingly, a lot of officially NOT mentally ill people have been violent, too. The mere fact that he went through three hours, during which he had a schizophrenic episode, and never showed any signs of violence should answer that question.


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Thursday, December 12, 2013 3:42 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I wonder whether the pressure may have contributed to his episode?

Also yes about the time frame. Deaf interpreters, we call the language Auslan here, are only allowed to work 45 minutes. For a long event there would be several interpreters who would change over.

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Thursday, December 12, 2013 4:25 PM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
That's like an SNL skit gone terribly wrong.......

I could picture Chevy Chase or Will Ferrell saying that they will now
sign for POTUS while Obama tries to explain the ACA........lol

or

Amy Poehler and Tina Fey double-talking the Gettysburg Address

Saw a skit on Jimmy Kimmel where he had an interpreter/comedian translate
the signs that guy was giving, a somewhat funny skit, but.......... meh!


SGG



SNL will do a skit on Saturday night....and it'll suck.

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Thursday, December 12, 2013 4:41 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Jantjie's first language is Xhosa, one of 11 official languages in South Africa, the minister continued. She said: "He was not able to translate from English to Xhosa to sign language. He started well and then in the middle he got tired and lost concentration. That did not mean he is a bad sign language interpreter."


Jeez this is a cock up. Seems he was only basically qualified, and he was expected to translate from English to Xhosa to sign language.

Additionally, which sign language? There isn't one. I wonder what sign language south africans use?

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Thursday, December 12, 2013 5:15 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:


Additionally, which sign language? There isn't one. I wonder what sign language south africans use?



I believe that very question is why no one caught on sooner. Because there are different sign dialects, and regional differences, folks just assumed he was signing a form they didn't know.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, December 12, 2013 5:40 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


They purchased his services because he was cheap. For the funeral of the most revered figure in modern history....???


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Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:08 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Quote:

Obviously it was a major snafu. But the vision Rap paints, of some deranged, violent maniac being allowed on stage with dignitaries?


He was violent, and was on stage with OUR PRESIDENT, not mere " dignitaries ". I mean, if it were Joe Biden or Nancy Pelosi...fine. He could sit right next to either of those two, for all I care!

Quote:


Contrast that with how it would feel to have an illness you work hard to control, to suddenly find yourself on the world's stage, halucinating, realizing your illness has taken control, fighting desperately to maintain calm, somehow do the best you can and get off stage.



Should have never been allowed on stage in the first place. Institutionalized, for over a year, mind you. I'm hearing they're still scrambling to find out who hired this guy in the first place.

Mike Tyson, who spent time in jail for rape , wasn't allowed to even enter the COUNTRY , when his 1 man show was to open up in London. My point ? Someone did due diligence in HIS background check, but for a violent mental who has no control of his own actions,to be allowed with in feet of the most powerful man in the world...

Big problem.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, December 13, 2013 5:26 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:



Report: Sign interpreter at Mandela memorial once faced murder charge


The South African government says it is aware of reports that the bogus sign language interpreter at Nelson Mandela's memorial once faced a murder charge, and says he's being investigated.

Phumla Williams of the government communications office said Friday the government is investigating Thamsanqa Jantjie and how he was selected to interpret at a memorial Tuesday at which he stood close to U.S. President Barack Obama and other leaders.

Jantjie told AP on Thursday he has been violent in the past and hallucinated during the memorial service as he was gesturing incoherently.

Thomas-Greenfield also said officials are dismayed because the people who need sign language weren't able to understand what was said at the ceremony. She called the problem "extraordinarily sad."

In Washington, Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said Thursday that vetting for criminal history and other appropriate background checks of the people onstage were the responsibility of the South Africans. He added that Secret Service agents are "always in close proximity to the president."


http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/the-five/article/2013/12/13/report-sign-
interpreter-mandela-memorial-once-faced-murder-charge





So far, no one is claiming responsibility for hiring this guy. I'm hearing that the criminal files for this guy have been found, but contain nothing. That is to say, they FOLDERS are there, but the contents aren't. They're mysteriously " gone ". How freaking strange is that ? Seems the incompetence in S.Africa govt goes pretty much all the way up to the top.



So there was a fool on stage who pretends to know what he's doing? AND this fake interpreter guy?

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