REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The Farm Bill - Your Tax Dollars at Work for Billionaires

POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Saturday, November 16, 2013 13:57
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1303
PAGE 1 of 1

Wednesday, November 13, 2013 4:01 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


File this in the Unbelievable Dept.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/11/farm-bill-billionaires_n_4256
365.html


Our tax dollars hard at work making the rich richer, including members of Congress. Seems to me that it's a conflict of interest voting for Farm Bill subsidies when your a member of Congress and you own one or two "little" farms.


SGG

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, November 14, 2013 3:10 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Shiny, it says a lot about RWED that this post, highlighting the $50 billion at LEAST that is going to rich people in the Farm Bill, has gotten no attention whatsoever, while the, what, $4 billion that got moved to another program is decried hotly, and the $40 billion Republicans want to cut from SNAP, are hailed left and right by our right wingers as "the right thing to do". Amazing. "?
Quote:

The bitter and much publicized debate leading up to the party-line vote tended to obscure what happened to the rest of the bill in the House: many of the same legislators up in arms about government spending and welfare abuse nonetheless voted for an increase in federal subsidies to wealthy farm interests.

“What’s remarkable and extraordinary about the farm bill is that, at a time of record crop prices and federal deficits, the House overwhelmingly passed a bill to increase subsidies,” Scott Faber, vice president for governmental affairs at the Environmental Working Group, told me this week.

“Only an evil genius could have dreamed this up.”

The debate over food stamps provided a smoke screen for the agriculture subsidies, he said. “Unless you read the fine print in the agricultural press, you wouldn’t have noticed.”

“It’s hard to understand how anyone in the House who calls himself a conservative could support this, but many did,” said Chris Chocola, president of the free-market-oriented Club for Growth, which opposed the bill and lobbied against it.

Mr. Chocola is a former congressman from Indiana’s Second District and commutes to Washington from his 40-acre farm near Elkhart. He said he’s spent most of his life in agriculture.

“With the federal debt and deficit we have, to be subsidizing millionaire farmers makes absolutely no sense,” he said.

Many farm commodity prices, farm incomes and farmland values are at or near record levels, notwithstanding a severe drought in some parts of the Great Plains.

Earlier this year, the Agriculture Department projected that farm income in 2013 would be $128.2 billion, the highest since 1973, fueled by “record crop production levels” and “high prices for many crops.” Moreover, surging prices of farmland — 2013 was the third year of double-digit increases, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City — have greatly improved farm balance sheets, the department said, and raised the net worth of many farmers.

Despite flush times in the farm belt, the bill the House passed last week provides the most generous farm subsidies in history. It increased crop insurance subsidies and raised price targets for a wide variety of crops, locking in price guarantees at their recent near-record levels.

Under previous incarnations of the farm bill, such subsidies expired every five years unless Congress acted to extend them. It always did, but at least there was an opportunity for periodic changes reform. Under the new bill the subsidies are permanent.

“It’s frightening,” Mr. Chocola said. “They’re locking in historically high commodity prices at taxpayer expense. And maybe the worst is that this is now permanent.”

The Senate version of the farm bill, although it retains financing for food stamps, contains many of the same generous farm subsidies.

“Right now, the federal government favors the big guy over the little guy,” Congressman Paul Ryan, Republican of Wisconsin, who is the chairman of the House budget committee and a former Republican candidate for vice president, told me this week. “We subsidize large agribusiness and the wealthy at the expense of the family farmer and the taxpayer. It’s an egregious example of cronyism. Both parties are to blame, but I’m hopeful both sides can come together to set this right.

The new House bill does contain some purported reforms. It slashes spending for conservation and nutrition, taking aim at favored liberal causes. And, with the exception of cotton farmers — “Who always get the best deal,” Mr. Faber said — it ends so-called direct payments to farmers who don’t grow anything.

Direct payments are the $4 billion to $5 billion given each year to owners of farmland that had traditionally grown various crops, including corn, wheat, soybeans, cotton and rice. These resulted in widely criticized payments to wealthy absentee “farmers” in places like Manhattan — including over $340,000 to a Rockefeller scion, Mark F. Rockefeller, The New York Post reported earlier this year — who owned land that grew nothing. Even the farm lobby backed down on that.

Yet out of the estimated $50 billion that might have been saved on direct payments over 10 years — and perhaps far more, depending on commodity prices — was plowed back into other subsidy programs the Cato Institute’s Sallie James put it, what the proposed bills “offer with one hand, they take with the other” for programs that “are even more likely to distort markets.”

These include increased crop insurance and increased target prices for crops that guarantee farm incomes. Crop insurance subsidies already cost taxpayers $9 billion a year flow overwhelmingly to the wealthiest farmers and agribusinesses. While the wealthiest farmers collect over $1 million a year each in insurance subsidies, and 10,000 get over $100,000, the lowest 80 percent of policy holders collect on average just $5,000 each, according to the group.

Under so-called shallow loss provisions of both the House and Senate versions of the farm bill, government makes direct payments to farmers to guarantee they receive 88 percent (in the Senate version) or 85 percent (in the House version) of the “target” price of various crops

By raising target prices, the bills vastly increase the likelihood of huge payments should prices decline from their current near-record levels. The American Enterprise Institute estimated that the program could cost as much as $18 billion annually based on historical average prices for crops covered by the bill.

These payments, too, go overwhelmingly to the largest and wealthiest farmers. “The more you produce, the bigger the subsidy and the more you get,” Mr. Faber said. “This really favors big agribusiness, since they produce and sell the most crops. “

Mr. Chocola of the Club for Growth agreed. “You talk to young farmers, and they don’t want any of this,” Mr. Chocola said. “It’s not helping small farmers. We really need a generational change in thinking on farm subsidies.”

Is there any hope for reform? Congress still has to reconcile the House and Senate versions, but most of the attention is again expected to be on the food stamp program, and not the generous agriculture subsidies. Senators Tom Coburn, Republican of Oklahoma, and Dick Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, have proposed reducing crop insurance subsidies by 15 percent for farmers earning more than $750,000 a year. Capping the subsidies would save taxpayers an estimated $1 billion a year, the senators said.

In the House, Mr. Ryan got his knuckles rapped by Speaker John Boehner after he initially voted against the House bill, in part because it had no income cap for subsidy recipients. Although he supported this week’s version, he said he wouldn’t vote for a final bill that doesn’t set an income limit.

“I’m hopeful that a conference agreement will limit crop-insurance subsidies to small farmers,” he said in a statement last week.

Mr. Chocola doubts the final bill will be much better than either the Senate or House versions. Democrats are likely to look the other way to restore food stamps, and many free-market Republicans have already caved. “It’s just the way Washington has always worked and we can’t afford it anymore,” he said.

“The bigger picture is, how can developing countries compete with our massive subsidies?” he said. “You can talk about improving the plight of the poor in third world, but there’s no way they can compete with our farmers. There’s nothing free market about it, there’s no national security aspect, and we’re not going to run out of food. There’s no excuse.” http://www.columbia.edu/~eg198/u6400/Subsidies_farmers_2013.pdf



Quite literally, there is no excuse. For the way the Farm Bill IS, and for our righties not being willing to talk about it, much less defend it. If they want to bitch, let's talk about the WHOLE Farm Bill.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, November 15, 2013 3:58 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Hey Niki,

Thanks for your post. Yeah, you're right, these guys here are totally ignoring this little tidbit of news. Maybe I should have used a more provocative title to draw them in, then POW, right between the eyes.

Something like: Obama Lies Again, or Ted Cruz's Gay Lover Supports Obamacare Because of AIDS scare.

or maybe this one;

Rappy is Right!!!

He would love that.


SGG



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, November 15, 2013 8:16 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Naw, they won't touch it with a ten-foot pole. The only possibility is Rap screaming something to the effect of how WE'll choose to "IGNORE" the Obamacare debacle to talk about this, but I doubt he'll even put himself in the firing line.

They, of course, "ignore" NO inequity in government...


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, November 15, 2013 9:29 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Shiny, it says a lot about RWED that this post, highlighting the $50 billion at LEAST that is going to rich people in the Farm Bill, has gotten no attention whatsoever,



Maybe because it doesn't say that.

Perhaps you misread this.

Quote:

"at least 50 billionaires or farm businesses in which they had a financial interest benefited from $11.3 million in traditional farm subsidies between 1995 and 2012."


Per the Washington Post, about $195 billion of the $975 billion Farm Bill is going to farmers in one way or another over 10 years, so about $20 billion a year. Hard to say how much is going specifically to billionares, but I'd guess lots less than 1/4 of the total. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/post/the-senate-farm-bill
-in-one-graph/2012/06/14/gJQAdAx4cV_blog.html


I agree that farm subsidies are out of control, and probably need some sort of means testing to put the money where it's actually needed. No reason to inflate the figures, though.




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, November 15, 2013 1:10 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


My remark was to compare the $40 billion being discussed as cut over ten years from SNAP with the estimated $50 billion that was supposedly "cut" but really wasn't. The full quote is as follows:
Quote:

The new House bill does contain some purported reforms. It slashes spending for conservation and nutrition, taking aim at favored liberal causes. And, with the exception of cotton farmers — “Who always get the best deal,” Mr. Faber said — it ends so-called direct payments to farmers who don’t grow anything.

Direct payments are the $4 billion to $5 billion given each year to owners of farmland that had traditionally grown various crops, including corn, wheat, soybeans, cotton and rice. These resulted in widely criticized payments to wealthy absentee “farmers” in places like Manhattan — including over $340,000 to a Rockefeller scion, Mark F. Rockefeller, The New York Post reported earlier this year — who owned land that grew nothing. Even the farm lobby backed down on that.

Yet most of the estimated $50 billion that might have been saved on direct payments over 10 years — and perhaps far more, depending on commodity prices — was plowed back into other subsidy programs. As the Cato Institute’s Sallie James put it, what the proposed bills “offer with one hand, they take with the other” for programs that “are even more likely to distort markets.” http://www.columbia.edu/~eg198/u6400/Subsidies_farmers_2013.pdf



If that needs clarification, the bill supposedly "cut" what would have been $50 billion or more in direct payments to wealthy absentee farmers who grew nothing for the next ten years (something which had become politically ugly), but plowed most of that money back into OTHER subsidies, essentially cutting nothing. And yes, it does say precisely that.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, November 15, 2013 1:49 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


I'm not against the average farmer, whether he be a millionaire or not, getting subsidies to grow crops to sell in the open market. I say, more power to them.

My argument is with these corporate owners who grow nothing and get subsidy increases hand over fist. It's these billionaire owners that fries my cookies. They have plenty of money and use the system to gouge the taxpayers.

But what really steams me is the politicians who own farmland and vote for subsidy increases. That's a conflict of interest. They should not be allowed to vote - period. That's like letting the fox vote for more hens in the henhouse, while he's sitting at the dinner table sharpening his teeth and wrapping a napkin around his neck for the next meal.

They shouldn't be allowed within spitting distance of any committee having to do with the Farm Bill, much less be on one. I was taken aback when I heard that this goes on quite matter-of-factly in Washington. Who made up these rules? How can they own farms and be allowed to vote for subsidy increases? Hell, how can they be allowed to even apply for any Federal monies? It stinks to high heaven.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Shiny, it says a lot about RWED that this post, highlighting the $50 billion at LEAST that is going to rich people in the Farm Bill, has gotten no attention whatsoever,



Maybe because it doesn't say that.

Perhaps you misread this.

Quote:

"at least 50 billionaires or farm businesses in which they had a financial interest benefited from $11.3 million in traditional farm subsidies between 1995 and 2012."


Per the Washington Post, about $195 billion of the $975 billion Farm Bill is going to farmers in one way or another over 10 years, so about $20 billion a year. Hard to say how much is going specifically to billionares, but I'd guess lots less than 1/4 of the total. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/post/the-senate-farm-bill
-in-one-graph/2012/06/14/gJQAdAx4cV_blog.html


I agree that farm subsidies are out of control, and probably need some sort of means testing to put the money where it's actually needed. No reason to inflate the figures, though.




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, November 15, 2013 10:10 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
My remark was to compare the $40 billion being discussed as cut over ten years from SNAP with the estimated $50 billion that was supposedly "cut" but really wasn't. The full quote is as follows:
Quote:

The new House bill does contain some purported reforms. It slashes spending for conservation and nutrition, taking aim at favored liberal causes. And, with the exception of cotton farmers — “Who always get the best deal,” Mr. Faber said — it ends so-called direct payments to farmers who don’t grow anything.

Direct payments are the $4 billion to $5 billion given each year to owners of farmland that had traditionally grown various crops, including corn, wheat, soybeans, cotton and rice. These resulted in widely criticized payments to wealthy absentee “farmers” in places like Manhattan — including over $340,000 to a Rockefeller scion, Mark F. Rockefeller, The New York Post reported earlier this year — who owned land that grew nothing. Even the farm lobby backed down on that.




This assumes that all farm subsidies go to rich people. Any proof of this?

As noted, I have problems with the farm subsidies, and would like to at the very least see some means based limits on subsidies, but to claim that pretty much the whole amount only goes to rich folks who don't deserve it is bogus.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 16, 2013 6:17 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


According to the article I read in the Huffington Post, approximately 50 billionaires (that's 50 too many IMO) are getting millions in subsidies.

Then there's this:

Reps. Stephen Fincher (R-Tenn.) and Doug LaMalfa (R-Calif.) both cited the Bible last week to argue that while individual Christians have a responsibility to feed the poor, the federal government does not.
"We're all here on this committee making decisions about other people's money," Fincher said.

LaMalfa said that while it's nice for politicians to boast about how they've helped their constituents, "That's all someone else's money."

Yet both men's farms have received millions in federal assistance, according to the Environmental Working Group, a nonprofit that advocates for more conservation and fewer subsidies. LaMalfa's family rice farm has received more than $5 million in commodity subsidies since 1995, according to the group's analysis of data from the U.S. Agriculture Department, while Fincher's farm has received more than $3 million since then.

Last year alone, Fincher's farm received $70,574 and LaMalfa's got $188,570.


Reported by the Environmental Working Group as gathered from the Department of Agriculture

Of course, numbers could always be fudged, don't you agree?


SGG

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 16, 2013 8:47 AM

WHOZIT


You libs dimwits know that lib dimwits like Bon Jovi, Bruce Springstein and other dimwit lib celebs get hand outs from the gov for their cute little farms.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 16, 2013 1:36 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


"This assumes that all farm subsidies go to rich people. Any proof of this?" The vast majority of them go to a very small, wealthy minority. The USDA is far from transparent with their subsidy data, so it's very difficult to track down who is actually receiving this money, as recipients of payments made through most cooperatives, and the amounts, are not made public AND Federal law prohibits the disclosure of the names of individuals who get crop INSURANCE subsidies. But I can give you a few facts:
Quote:

Between 1995 and 2010:

•10 percent of farmers collected 74 percent of all subsidies, amounting to nearly $166 billion over 16 years

•62 percent of U.S. farmers did not collect subsidy payments

•The bottom 80 percent of recipients averaged just $587 a year

Now, if you look at the leading recipients of commodity subsidies, you'll see the highest earners received payments numbering in the hundreds of millions from 1995-2010 for the top three. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/02/27/us-farm-
subsidies-absurd.aspx
]


In California alone:
Quote:

91 percent of farms in California did not collect subsidy payments - according to USDA.

•Ten percent of those who did collected 73 percent of all subsidies.

•Amounting to $6.06 billion over 18 years.

•Top 10%: $67,607 average per year between 1995 and 2012.

•Bottom 80%: $1,449 average per year between 1995 and 2012.


You can check it out, state by state, at http://farm.ewg.org/
Quote:

The federal government paid $11.3 million in taxpayer-funded farm subsidies from 1995 to 2012 to 50 billionaires or businesses in which they have some form of ownership.

As to zit's imbecilic remark about who gets subsidies (I guess he's too dumb to grasp that we are against it, no matter WHO it is--apparently 'cuz HE wouldn't mind, depending on the recipient's political leanings):
Quote:

The billionaires who received the subsidies or owned companies that did include the investment titan Charles Schwab and S. Truett Cathy, owner of Chick-fil-A. The billionaires who got the subsidies have a collective net worth of $316 billion, according to Forbes magazine. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/us/billionaires-received-us-farm-sub
sidies-report-finds.html?_r=0#h
[]


Some didn't even KNOW they're getting subsidies...but then heck, when you're that rich, who notices a few hundred thou here or there?
Quote:

Some of the company officials identified said they were surprised to find their names in the report.

Don Millican, the chief financial officer at the Kaiser-Francis Oil Company in Tulsa, Okla., which is owned by the oil and banking magnate George Kaiser, said he did not know why the company was shown as receiving crop subsidies.

“It’s possible we could have gotten the surface rights to land that was being farmed and that’s why we were listed as getting subsidies,” Mr. Millican said. "It happens." Same



I think it's blatantly disingenuous to infer that there isn't a MASSIVE problem with these subsidies, as well as the insurance subsidies, and to focus on SNAP instead is equally blatantly dishonest, ESPECIALLY given the fact that nobody has yet explained why SNAP went UP under Bush, during good times, while it went down under Clinton during good times and IS GOING UP MORE SLOWLY under Obama, as the economy recovers.

I think until you righties want to have any kind of reasonable discussion about it, it's not worth further time or effort to make the point--which has already been made quite validly numerous times--that there is an enormous amount of taxpayer money going to wealthy individuals in the farm bill. THAT should be dealt with first. Your obsession with finding something--anything--to try to negate some part of whatever I put up is your obsession alone, Geezer; even agreeing that you're against these enormous, useless subsidies which you and I pay for, all you can do is nitpick whatever I post.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 16, 2013 1:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I think he's got a fractured mind. His best self in an Ayn Randian, full of pure ideas of objectivism and how it should reward the superior person - like himself, of course. All very objectively thought out as a pure intellectual exercise, dontcha' know. No ego involved there. -snicker- Emotionally, he's stuck in the past, identifying with reicht-whingers - which is why he never EVER criticizes them, and treating anyone else as the enemy.

Which is why he's such a hypocrite. He points to his intellectual notions of who he is and claims neutral objectivity; then reacts like a tantrumming spiteful child when actually having to deal with ideas and people he disagrees with.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Elections; 2024
Sun, April 28, 2024 09:30 - 2313 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Sun, April 28, 2024 07:40 - 6311 posts
Dangerous Rhetoric coming from our so-called President
Sun, April 28, 2024 07:30 - 1 posts
Scientific American Claims It Is "Misinformation" That There Are Just Two Sexes
Sun, April 28, 2024 02:45 - 20 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Sun, April 28, 2024 02:09 - 3573 posts
Russian losses in Ukraine
Sun, April 28, 2024 02:03 - 1016 posts
The Thread of Court Cases Trump Is Winning
Sat, April 27, 2024 21:37 - 20 posts
Case against Sidney Powell, 2020 case lawyer, is dismissed
Sat, April 27, 2024 21:29 - 13 posts
I'm surprised there's not an inflation thread yet
Sat, April 27, 2024 21:28 - 745 posts
Slate: I Changed My Mind About Kids and Phones. I Hope Everyone Else Does, Too.
Sat, April 27, 2024 21:19 - 3 posts
14 Tips To Reduce Tears and Remove Smells When Cutting Onions
Sat, April 27, 2024 21:08 - 9 posts
Russian War Crimes In Ukraine
Sat, April 27, 2024 19:27 - 15 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL