Devil's Advocate Re: Zimmerman not-guilty decision by chrisisall

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Devil's Advocate Re: Zimmerman not-guilty decision

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Sunday, July 21, 2013 14:39
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VIEWED: 6916
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Sunday, July 21, 2013 6:06 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

BUMP. Wonder if you'll ever reply.

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Sunday, July 21, 2013 10:33 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

He won't reply - at least not on topic to your post, and not with facts.

It's the calculation he makes. If he replies directly to your post, with facts, examples and logic, then you're controlling the conversation, and you've won and he's lost. But if he snarks, or brings up something else, or posts nonsense, and you try to refute him, then he's controlling the conversation and he's won and you’ve lost.

It's not about the topics, it's about him winning the game.

It's not about the words that he posts b/c they are irrelevant to him, it's how he operates.

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Sunday, July 21, 2013 10:39 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Wrong, and with nothing to back that up.
HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Let me get this straight. You're backtracking on all your beliefs which you have posted quite frequently throughout the years (left a significant trail there, sonny) and you NOW...

Admit that waterboarding is torture, and think that suspects should NOT be tortured (Like in the TV series 24 which figured oh so prominently in your fervid posts)?

Umm, no. Not how we did it. ( And hell yes, that makes a mountain of difference )

Our own troops are subjected waterboarding , in training. And a whole lot worse.

Waterboarding actually yielded info that was pivitol in capturing UBL. Obama's greatest act while President. And even then, he was little more than a passive participant in the whole affair!

Waterboarding, as we did it, was 100% avoidable, by the Muslim Islamic nutcase terrorists, had they simply cooperated. They chose not to, so they got waterboarded. If anything, it's all on THEM they went through this, not us.

Quote:

No longer view a hundred thousand-plus deaths as regrettable but necessary "collateral damage" in the fight for a "good cause", but now realize that any organization which kills that many people is evil in direct proportion to the misery it creates, "good cause" notwithstanding?

Huh?

Quote:

Realize that your source of your money is not "hard work" on your part, but self-destructive predation on a society which has been morphed into rewarding greed?

Now that's just crazy talk. You don't know what I do, and have no clue as to where I get my money. There are greedy folks in the world, but that ain't me. Nice try.

Quote:

Understand that GWB's "trickle down" economic approach, which cut taxes for the wealthy and blew up the deficit, set the stage for a 1929-style Depression?

W spent far too much $. Had zero to do w/ 'trickle down' economics. And it was Dem policies which broke the economy, not W's tax cuts.

Quote:

Admit that WMD was a made-up excuse for invading an oil-rich nation in order to abrogate the non-petrodollar contracts it was about to ink with France?

Umm, no. It wasn't " made up". While there may have been other benefits for the US to stop Saddam, you can't deny that he was indeed in grave violation of UN resolutions.

Quote:

Concede that following ANYONE with a gun is indeed "stalking"?

Absurd. And paranoid. GZ was acting as neighborhood watch, in an area which had had multiple break ins and robberies. Trayvon was unknown in the area and acting suspiciously. You're trying to make a horrific tragedy into a political cause. Utterly disgusting, divisive and reckless.

Quote:

Wow, look at the progress you've made!

Your definition of progress is comical, at best.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, July 21, 2013 11:06 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I see he's played the 'reply with nonsense' card. Don't get suckered in, SignyM.

For one thing, we already know the exact reasons why his post is nonsense. For another, all your logic and facts will not win you the argument, but they will lose you his game.

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Sunday, July 21, 2013 11:09 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

HAHAHAHAHA! "Reply with nonsense" indeed! I think you've figured out something real about rappy... it's all about who controls the conversation, that's all he's here for. God, what a tool.

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Sunday, July 21, 2013 11:32 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
HAHAHAHAHA! "Reply with nonsense" indeed! I think you've figured out something real about rappy... it's all about who controls the conversation, that's all he's here for.

Exactly. All the people he knows in the real world dismiss his nonsense, here he can get back at them in a way.;)

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Sunday, July 21, 2013 11:50 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I see where the usual suspects have ignored what's inconvenient for them, and taken the short cut to inanity.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, July 21, 2013 11:58 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So, to get back to the topic at hand, I was wondering if we could summarize our take on the topic.

I'll go first:

Zimmerman trial - a self-defense and therefore syg-defense, where all the faults of the law were on display. The law - a deeply flawed law that leaves the quickest (or only) person to draw their gun the one who tells the story. Zimmerman himself - a slick and racist murderer.

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Sunday, July 21, 2013 2:35 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Whether the law applies to people committing criminal acts (depending on the paragraph formatting) or not doesn't make much difference to me: the entire law seems flawed, with no way of fixing it. Whatever happened to plain old self-defense?

I realize that there will be many confusing situations, such as the subway shooter Bernhard Goetz. At times it will be difficult to tell whether the shooter was suffering from aggravated self defense... in other words, looking for a fight... or was truly afraid. But anytime you can acquit an armed man who had been following an unarmed man, with the unarmed man being the ultimate victims, something is truly fucked up. There is no -or there shouldn't be- any defense for that kind of behavior.

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Sunday, July 21, 2013 2:39 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Now having read more about it, I don't think you can assume that Zimmerman was a racist, any more than you can say Martin was a thug.

What I see are the issues -

Having armed vigilantes patrol an area seems to me to be fraught with difficulties, including legal difficulties. It's one thing to keep an eye on your neighbourhood, but what is your role if you apprehend someone behaving suspiciously? What are the rights of others to go about their business in a neighbourhood that uses such methods? It seems to me that Martin's rights were violated that night, but as a young black man he may have been used to that from police - may have tolerated it from police - but not from a civilian. That, of course is subjecture like much in this case.

Whether SYG laws were invoked or not, it seems that the existence of these laws may have influenced Zimmerman's behaviour that night. Perhaps he had a sense, like many have named here, of not being required to take defensive action, but to see that justice was carried out.

What really feels wrong is the behaviour of the police in questioning Zimmerman and letting him go. Surely a shooting death requires more than a perfunctory examination of the scene, or are they so commonplace as to be just another night on the job. I wonder if the situation was reversed and Martin shot Zimmerman whether he would be let off. In any event, this smells of the good ol days.

If Zimmerman had been arrested initially, and there surely seems to be enough evidence, gun, dead body, standing over, 911 calls, then manslaughter would seem to have been a reasonable charge. The jury may have been able to do something with that, and if guilty not a particularly long sentence or suspended would be reasonable.

Anyway, wasn't there, don't know, haven't examined the evidence in minute detail, but some thoughts anyway.

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