REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Efforts to Resuscitate Extinct Species May Spawn a New Era of the Hybrid (and/or Kill Off Today's Animals?)

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Friday, March 29, 2013 15:30
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Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:13 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Here goes mankind, again, "fixing" things...
Quote:

WASHINGTON, D.C.—A bird that once darkened the skies of the 19th-century U.S. no longer exists, except as well-preserved museum specimens bearing bits of DNA. An ambitious new effort aims to use the latest techniques of genetic manipulation to bring the passenger pigeon back, as North Dakotan Ben Novak, a would-be de-extinction scientist working on the Revive & Restore project at the Long Now Foundation, told the crowd at the TEDxDeExtinction event here on March 15.

"This [pigeon flock] was a biological storm that was rejuvenating resources and allowing other animals to thrive," Novak said of the storms of Ectopistes migratorius feces that used to fall like rain on the landscape of eastern North America. Plus, with the regrowth of forest on the east coast "there is more passenger pigeon habitat every year."

But if a bird looks like an extinct passenger pigeon, has some of the genetic code of the passenger pigeon, but does not act like a passenger pigeon because it is raised by other breeds and few in number: is it a true passenger pigeon? That is just one of the questions posed by the idea of de-extinction—deliberately resurrecting species killed off by human activity or inactivity. And that question may just challenge one of the fundamental concepts of biology: what determines a distinct species.
Much more at http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=lost-species-revived-
from-dna-and-restored-to-nature
]
At least someone is asking a pertinent question:
Quote:

Will We Kill Off Today's Animals If We Revive Extinct Ones?

De-extinction hopes to revive mammoths, gastric frogs and other missing species, but it might undermine the conservation of creatures that still survive.

The rebirth of an extinct frog species may come from the freezer, not the stomach. The gastric brooding frog, when it existed on Earth, swallowed its eggs, transformed its stomach into a womb and vomited up its young once sufficiently grown. But the frog disappeared from the mountains of southern Australia shortly after it was discovered in the 1970s, persisting only as a few frozen specimens in the bottom of a scientist's freezer.

The cells in those tissues should have been ruptured by the swelling ice crystals that formed within and around them. But some of the cells remained reasonably intact, according to paleontologist Michael Archer of the University of New South Wales in Australia, who is attempting to resurrect the species via his Lazarus Project. He and his colleagues transplanted the nucleus of that cell and others like it into hundreds of eggs from a closely related species. "Last February we saw a miracle starting to happen," Archer announced for the first time to the crowd at the TEDx De-Extinction event on March 15 at the National Geographic Auditorium. "One of them began to divide." (Archer’s group has not published the work yet.)

While tadpoles may be a long way off, let alone a viable frog, the southern gastric brooding frog might be the first species brought back from the dead permanently. The first de-extinction happened in 2003, although it lasted all too briefly. Scientists coaxed a clone of an extinct ibex from Spain to birth from a special hybrid goat. But the cloned bucardo bore a third lung and couldn't breathe properly, dying within 10 minutes.

Although this early effort failed, the growing cohort of resurrection projects raises a central question: Does extinction mean forever, anymore? If not, do we have an obligation to bring species back? "If it's clear that we exterminated these species, we not only have a moral obligation to see what we can do about it but a moral imperative to do something if we can," Archer argued. The new science of synthetic biology aims to make it possible for him to fulfill that moral imperative.

Humans have killed off many species, both iconic and common. A lighthouse keeper's cat Tibbles—aided by a few feral cats perhaps—caught and killed nearly every single Stephens Island wren just as they were discovered by science in 1900. Hungry sailors ate the Steller's sea cow to death within a century of its discovery. The Xerces Blue butterfly disappeared with the sand dunes from San Francisco in the 1940s as that city swelled. The American chestnut, once the most abundant tree in eastern North America, succumbed to a fungal blight imported from Asia by humans.

"As a human species, we have been amazingly efficient at making things extinct," noted conservation scientist Kate Jones of University College London at the TEDx DeExtinction event.

As the extinction rate swells thanks to habitat loss, over-hunting and human-induced climate change, the world may be on pace to lose half of all species by the end of this century—a reality dubbed the sixth extinction because it would represent the sixth mass die-off of life in Earth's history. Of course, the other five were caused by climatic, planetary or astronomic events.

Just as mammoth DNA has waited in the Siberian tundra, preserved by constant cold temperatures, the cold of the San Diego's frozen zoo may be the key to ensuring that today's biodiversity makes it through the next few centuries of the Anthropocene intact. This ark, maintained at a steady -197 degrees Celsius, holds the cells of 503 mammals, 170 birds, 70 reptiles and 12 amphibians and fish—out of an estimated 10 million animal, plant, microbe and fungal species on the planet. The collection displays a bias toward charismatic megafauna and thus against the uncharismatic microfauna that keep the planet alive. The cold Svalbard seed vault in Norway performs the same function for crops—species that, despite their importance to us, have dwindled in biodiversity as genetic engineering has created specialized variants that now dominate the landscape.

Some conservationists also pour cold water on the very idea of de-extinction, worrying that it could enable the extinction of yet more species by diverting funds from proven efforts to sustain them, such as protected areas, intensive management of small surviving populations, even advertising campaigns to reduce the consumption of endangered species. We might bring the mammoth back while letting its relatives slip away. "At this moment, brave conservationists are risking their lives to protect forest elephants from armed poachers," noted biologist David Ehrenfeld of Rutgers University at TEDx. "And we're talking in this safe auditorium about bringing back the woolly mammoth?"Much more at http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=de-extinction-to-brin
g-back-extinct-species-but-challenges-conservation


It's a conundrum...

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Wednesday, March 27, 2013 10:12 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Hope they resuscitate/revive? the thylacine.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thylacine

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Wednesday, March 27, 2013 12:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



99% of all species that have ever lived on Earth are now extinct. As species become extinct, those which remain fill in the niches of the ecosystem which are now vacant.

My guess is that, any critter which is DE-extincted, would be more circus freak oddity than viable life form.

Didn't anyone see Jurassic Park ? ( I think so. )

Just because we CAN do something doesn't mean we SHOULD.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, March 27, 2013 3:47 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

99% of all species that have ever lived on Earth are now extinct. As species become extinct, those which remain fill in the niches of the ecosystem which are now vacant.

My guess is that, any critter which is DE-extincted, would be more circus freak oddity than viable life form.

Didn't anyone see Jurassic Park ? ( I think so. )

Just because we CAN do something doesn't mean we SHOULD.

Oh My Buddha! I totally agree with you.
Drinks All Around!

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Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:13 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

99% of all species that have ever lived on Earth are now extinct. As species become extinct, those which remain fill in the niches of the ecosystem which are now vacant.

My guess is that, any critter which is DE-extincted, would be more circus freak oddity than viable life form.

Didn't anyone see Jurassic Park ? ( I think so. )

Just because we CAN do something doesn't mean we SHOULD.

Oh My Buddha! I totally agree with you.
Drinks All Around!



Coincidence that it was also a full moon, perhaps?



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, March 28, 2013 8:39 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Sadly, Chris, given it is MAN who is trying to "recreate" species, and that we do it for our own self-interest, there is far more likelihood of any newly-created species taking over for an already-existing one than anything else. Species fill voids left by those who go extinct, but that doesn't mean that works, or works well. In recent times, it's worked WORSE for the species "nature" (or whatever/whoever) originally had filling that niche, causes problems in other niches, and the dominoes start to fall.

I WISH that scientists wouldn't run around doing things just 'cuz they can, I'm in full agreement on that. We've wiped out so many species that have negatively affected the balance around them, I don't hold a lot of hope for anything new WE might create!

On a personal note, I'm sure glad YOU didn't go extinct, and are popping back now and again!


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Thursday, March 28, 2013 4:37 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

On a personal note, I'm sure glad YOU didn't go extinct, and are popping back now and again!


Thanks, I can't totally leave here. :)

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Thursday, March 28, 2013 7:32 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


On the one hand, I think it's pretty cool if we can do it.

On the other hand, it's not something I'd want done outside of a lab, or ever being released into the wild without some serious studies done beforehand. And still, unintended consequences...

Some of these species - amphibians, perhaps - might offer some new sources or ideas for medicines, or have other health benefits.

But does that justify bringing them to life, just to prolong ours?

I'm torn. I can see good and bad on both sides of this issue. Plus, y'know, Quagga, Thylacine, Caspian Tiger, Irish Deer, Aurochs... All pretty cool critters. Quagga, half horse/half zebra; Thylacine, a.k.a. Tasmian Tiger or Tasmanian Wolf - it's neither canine nor feline, but something altogether different. It's got tiger's stripes, but resembles a dog, but it's a marsupial with the pouch to prove it. The last one died in a zoo in 1936, it's believed. Caspian Tiger was one of the largest of the tigers, and was hunted to extinction by the 1950s. Irish Deer was the largest deer ever known, 7' tall at the shoulder, with antlers more than 12' across. They died out around 7700 years ago. Aurochs was a kind of cow, a very large type of cattle that was hunted out by 1627.

Wouldn't mind seeing any of them make a comeback one day.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Thursday, March 28, 2013 7:32 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

On a personal note, I'm sure glad YOU didn't go extinct, and are popping back now and again!


Thanks, I can't totally leave here. :)




Brokeback Firefly? "Why cain't I quit yew?"





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Thursday, March 28, 2013 8:09 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Ayep, the first image what came to mind for me was a T-Rex, with a saddle on it, heh heh.

-F

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Friday, March 29, 2013 10:04 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Just musing here, but if this continues on, and someone really does attempt to re-introduce an extinct species, I think the late Michael Crichton will be seen more and more as a modern day profit. In JP2, the book, he goes on to explain how merely making a creature come alive doesn't reproduce the species that once lived. The reason why, is simple; lack of any social structure.

Be it herding animals like mammoth, or hunting animals, young critters need adults around to help them and teach them the specifics of living. Stuff like getting food, attracting a mate, and even how to mate. And those are just the highlights.

So yeah, it'd be cool to SEE a real live mammoth walk the steppes of Siberia again, or even the plains of the western U.S. , but then what? What exactly would be the goal here ?

At least w/ a mammoth, you could find some contemporary relative, likely the Indian elephant, to serve as an adoptive family, assuming even THAT was possible. But it wouldn't be a mammoth herd it was growing up in. It'd be a close approximation, but not true 'family'.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, March 29, 2013 3:30 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Way I see it, any attempt to introduce any larger extinct species - any mammal, basically - into the wild would involve breeding basically a whole herd, clan, or group in captivity, then slowly introducing them into the wild together after teaching them how to hunt, survive, etc.

It's been done with endangered species, so the "how" isn't really all that difficult. The "why" is the harder issue to figure out.

And while I'd love to see some of these critters come back to life, I do wrestle with the why of it. Are we doing it for them, or for us? They're extinct; they don't know any better. They won't thank us. I think it's more vanity on our part than anything else.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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