REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Pope Francis explains name, calls for church 'for the poor'

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Saturday, March 23, 2013 18:40
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Saturday, March 16, 2013 10:27 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


GO FRANCIS (maybe)!!! Hailing from the CITY of his namesake, if I were to pray to any god, it would be that this new guy's rein reflects that of exactly his chosen namesake. Would that it might be so!
Quote:

The new pope gave an insight into his choice of the name Francis in an audience with journalists Saturday -- and said how he wished for a church that was both poor and "for the poor."

His words came in his first meeting with the media since he became the only Jesuit and first Latin American to be chosen as leader of the Roman Catholic Church three days ago.

Francis, who before he became pope was known as Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, said a fellow cardinal from Brazil had told him "don't forget the poor" as the votes stacked up in his favor.

This thought stuck in his mind, Francis said, as it became clear that he had won the two-thirds majority that meant he was the new pontiff.

"Right away, with regard to the poor, I thought of St. Francis of Assisi, then I thought of war," he told the assembled journalists. "Francis loved peace and that is how the name came to me."

He had also thought of St. Francis of Assisi's concern for the natural environment, he said, and how he was a "poor man, a simple man, as we would like a poor church, for the poor."

St. Francis of Assisi, who gave up his own wealth and prestige, is revered among Catholics for his work with the poor.

Reforms to come?

Francis has already struck observers with his simple and humble style since being elected to the papacy -- and prompted speculation that he may bring in wider changes.

The Vatican said Saturday that he's decided that the heads of the various Vatican offices will keep their jobs for now, but he's not making any definitive appointments.

This, writes CNN Vatican analyst John Allen, who's also a correspondent for the National Catholic Reporter, is the first clear signal that he may be serious about reform.

"It's customary for new popes to swiftly reconfirm the department heads who lose their positions when the previous pontificate ends, and then take his time about bringing in his team," said Allen.

"The fact that Francis has not followed that path may suggest that significant personnel moves will come sooner rather than later."

Francis wants "a certain period for reflection, prayer and dialogue before [making] any definitive nomination or confirmation," the Vatican statement said.More at


This guy might be worth watching, maybe with a bit of hope, from this buddhist's perspective.
Quote:

Pope Francis, the pontiff of firsts, breaks with tradition

When Jorge Bergoglio stepped onto the balcony at the Vatican on Wednesday to reveal himself as the new leader of the world's 1.2 billion Catholics, he made history as the first non-European pope of the modern era, the first from Latin America, the first Jesuit and the first to assume the name Francis.

The new pope then quickly made another kind of history, breaking with tradition in his first public act before the 150,000 people packed into St. Peter's Square. Rather than bless the crowd first, he asked them to pray for him.

"Let us say this prayer, your prayer for me, in silence," he told the cheering crowd.

The willingness by Francis to dispense with tradition was interpreted by a Vatican spokesman as a sign he will be willing to chart his own path in other ways.

The pontiff also broke with another tradition by refusing to use a platform to elevate himself above the cardinals standing with him as he was introduced to the world as Pope Francis.

"He said I'll stay down here," Cardinal Timothy Dolan, archbishop of New York and the president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. "He met each of us on our own level."

The 76-year-old Bergoglio, who served as the archbishop of Buenos Aires, is the first pope to take the name in honor of St. Francis of Assisi, revered among Catholics for his work with the poor. St. Francis is viewed as a reformer of the church, answering God's call to "repair my church in ruins." More at http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/13/world/europe/vatican-pope-selection/inde
x.html


I hope he takes that to heart. Yes, he's "a follower of the church's most social conservative wing" and "as a cardinal, he clashed with the government of Argentine President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner over his opposition to gay marriage and free distribution of contraceptives". I'll wait and see...

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Saturday, March 16, 2013 6:48 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Agreed - I think they blew it myself, according to them this'll supposedly be the last Pope, and when it ain't I am sure they'll pull some oh-we-misinterpreted-that justification out of their butts...

If they wanted to convince me and mine they were in any way still relevant and humane, they'd have selected a woman as Pope, and lets be honest here, it wouldn't be the first time they did - not that they like admitting this.

-F

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Sunday, March 17, 2013 3:17 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



What would you expect to from the Church regarding the poor ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, March 17, 2013 8:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Not even hoping for any major changes, Brenda (I'm not quite THAT dumb!), but even small ones which focus more on helping the poor and less on dogmatic focus on gays and abortion/contraception would be an improvement, in my book! Like if they'd stop going after Nuns on a Bus, that sort of thing; maybe even ACKNOWLEDGE their good work...

...hey, I'm allowed to dream!

He might well make some changes; he's quite a bit different from the Popes they've had for eons. You never know.


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Sunday, March 17, 2013 9:22 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



A host on the radio was talking about this very topic today, and brought up some points with which I agree.

While it may be a moral duty for us to help the poor, it should not be a LEGAL duty.

The host is a libertarian, and was discussing Pope Francis, and the rise of the 'social justice' movement, with in the church. That term, 'social justice' , is one which I despise, and the host said she was totally opposed to it as well. It's nothing more than a ploy, used by those who support wealth redistribution, under the guise of " fairness ". I'm trying to remember how she put it...

'Take from the rich to give to the poor,
until the rich are no more '

Or something to that effect.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, March 18, 2013 9:02 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I knew you weren't, Brenda, and for the most part agree with you--certainly that I have no expectations. His is just the first Papacy to come along in my lifetime which seems based on something different...enough different somethings that my ears pricked up. :o)


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Monday, March 18, 2013 5:52 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


If they want to have a church for the poor, why don't they sell some of their shit and go minister to the poor while actually HELPING them?


Naaaahhhh... that'll never work. Better tell everyone to have a bake sale so the church can afford to pay off all those pesky molestation settlements.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, March 19, 2013 3:54 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Laughable, Mike, and you know it. Francis himself lived frugally, from what I hear, and is eschewing some of the money usually spent on a Pope. All he can do is be an example, one man can't change an institution like that MUCH any more than one President can change a government--actually probably far less so, given the rigidity of The Church, its global nature and that how it is dealt with is in individual hands. He's already working on it, tho':
Quote:

Pope Francis Calls for Service to ‘Poorest, Weakest’

“Please, I would like to ask all those who have positions of responsibility in economic, political and social life, and all men and women of good will: let us be ‘protectors’ of creation, protectors of God’s plan inscribed in nature, protectors of one another and of the environment.” http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/20/world/europe/installation-of-pope-fr
ancis.html?_r=0


The most he can probably do is be a figurehead and make an impression with what he says and does himself, at least at first. Maybe he can make some small, internal change, we'll see if that happens with time. But his message is his biggest tool, and at least he's begun with a good one.


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Tuesday, March 19, 2013 5:11 AM

BYTEMITE


Saint Francis is actually the only Saint I respect. So I hope for the sake of Catholics everywhere that this pope is sincere. Because if this is just a public relations move... The end of Catholicism might be approaching.

Which would be entirely deserved in my opinion. I hate the authority and power and greed invested in religion everywhere. But a crisis of faith of that magnitude, even I can't cheer that.

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Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:25 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I would be quite happy to see the end of "church", as it were--as in, organized religious power, money, etc., but I wouldn't want to deprive people of faith, it can be one of the greatest things in people's lives.

I definitely don't think his choice of name, OR what he's saying, is a political move. One only has to look at his entire life to see what's coming out is a perfect reflection of him, not the church. I'm willing to believe he's sincere; how EFFECTIVE, is another matter.


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Tuesday, March 19, 2013 7:48 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Speaking as the only Catholic on this board... I like this pope.

I like Jesuits in general. So go for it, Francis.


-----

Disobedience is not an issue if obedience is not the goal.

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Friday, March 22, 2013 11:55 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


That's my take on this whole changing of the guard at the Vatican. The old pope saw the handwriting on the wall, so to speak, and wanted no part of an investigation and interrogation into the sexual abuse scandal.

Now we get: look how Pope Francis shuns wearing the official Pope cape, and look how he wears a wooden cross.

But absolutely no one, in the media, questions the new Pope on what his plans are to "reform" the church and repair the damage done by countless clergy throughout the years. Where are the prayers for those victims? Why hasn't one word been said to heal those who have suffered at the hands of the self-same molesters who voted for the new Pope.

What we get is news people tripping over themselves in the "bum rush" to the Vatican. I watched as the News 4 team marveled and slobbered over the mundane intricacies and inner workings of the Catholic power machine known as the Vatican. But nary a mention as to whether this Pope would address the glaring and obvious issues that face the church today - namely the abusive priests who continue to "serve" their parishioners.

I recall, as a kid, the abhorrent hypocrisy of the parishioners in my local church, professing to be caring individuals and all the while criticizing and gossiping. It is not solely exclusive to the catholic church, I have visited many a Christian church and observed similar behavior. If there is a God, I don't imagine him celebrating the fact that a man, claiming to be his right hand man, is posing as a demigod here on earth. For the most part, religion, to me, is a four letter word.

I question, have since I could remember. I don't follow easily because of my penchant for wanting to know why. I question the wisdom of those who follow blindly especially when you read Matthew 19:14 "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." And allow those who represent in his name to continually, without punishment, abuse the very nature of the son of God's words.

So, I agree....The end of Catholicism might be approaching.



SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Saint Francis is actually the only Saint I respect. So I hope for the sake of Catholics everywhere that this pope is sincere. Because if this is just a public relations move... The end of Catholicism might be approaching.

Which would be entirely deserved in my opinion. I hate the authority and power and greed invested in religion everywhere. But a crisis of faith of that magnitude, even I can't cheer that.


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Saturday, March 23, 2013 12:30 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Faith, Hope and Charity.

Those can, in the right hands, be powerful in breadth and scope. But do you really need gold rings, or a cloak lined with Ermine fur to lead the catholic followers. Should not his pure and unshakable faith be enough to guide his flock through the times of trouble.

The Vatican is, to me, the height of hypocrisy. It is idolatry most high. And didn't a certain man come down from Mt. Sinai with the word of God that commanded his followers to NOT do:

"You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them"

Isn't what the Catholic church has built exactly opposite.

He, Pope Francis, may not be political, in the strict sense of the word, but the Vatican's voting for him may be. It is a conscience choice to deflect and appease those who would criticize the non-action of the Church in regards to it's secular troubles. Spiritually it is a bold move, again to deflect the obvious opulence of the Catholic church.

"For the poor" becomes the official battlecry, if you will, of the Vatican and the church in general. Who better than the man from Argentina who has demonstrated his style from the beginning of his career to be that instrument of the poor within the beloved Catholic church. Brilliant move indeed, check!

How effective will he be is the million dollar question.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I would be quite happy to see the end of "church", as it were--as in, organized religious power, money, etc., but I wouldn't want to deprive people of faith, it can be one of the greatest things in people's lives.

I definitely don't think his choice of name, OR what he's saying, is a political move. One only has to look at his entire life to see what's coming out is a perfect reflection of him, not the church. I'm willing to believe he's sincere; how EFFECTIVE, is another matter.



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Saturday, March 23, 2013 12:44 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


"they'd have selected a woman as Pope"

That would've been a bold move. Wasn't aware that they did that at one time, good to know. Thanks Frem.

Tradition wins out again. Peter was a man, and first Pope, so it goes.



SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Agreed - I think they blew it myself, according to them this'll supposedly be the last Pope, and when it ain't I am sure they'll pull some oh-we-misinterpreted-that justification out of their butts...

If they wanted to convince me and mine they were in any way still relevant and humane, they'd have selected a woman as Pope, and lets be honest here, it wouldn't be the first time they did - not that they like admitting this.

-F


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Saturday, March 23, 2013 6:40 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Oh they didn't - not on purpose! heh heh heh.
While the Church would have one believe every single one of those tales is untrue, they supposedly installed a special chair and test to ensure potentive popes had certain bits (read: Yarbles) for a reason, and I figure that reason for being that some previous popes kinda lacked those.

Given various weirdnesses and other chicanery in their history (feast of chestnuts comes to mind) I rather think the credibility of their denials in this is somewhat lacking.

Of all the popes I prolly woulda got along best with Formosus, boy did HE piss them off!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Formosus

See, every advance in humanitys cause, has been due to an act of Heresy against the established order, social, legal, political, or religious, and therefore I feel that the ability and willingness to commit it is one of humanitys shining virtues.

Oh, and yeah verily, ALL the Abramic beliefs basically state lead-by-example and let them come to you instead of trying to force belief down peoples throats on a bayonet, but when have they ever really obeyed their own word, ehe ?

That very hypocrisy and nastiness you mention was the cause of my extreme hostility and unfortunate prejudice against christians in fact, cause as a child nearly every act of malice I saw on behalf of adults for some time was at the hands of people wearing a cross and pretending they weren't like that - it wasn't until my late teens that I even knew a christian who wasn't IMHO, a monster, so that colored my opinion of them quite darkly - I do try to avoid letting that prejudice get a grip, but it sure doesn't help when it is constantly reinforced by their overall behavior as a group, you know ?

-Frem


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