REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A short history of gun laws

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Friday, January 18, 2013 18:57
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Thursday, January 17, 2013 7:23 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Starting with the Second Amendment in 1791:
Quote:

1934 -- National Firearms Act: The law was designed to make it difficult to obtain especially lethal guns. These would include preferred weapons of the era's gangsters, like sawed-off long rifles or shotguns and machine guns. It also regulated specialty weapons concealed in canes, pens or other items.

1968 -- Gun Control Act of 1968: Following the assassinations of President John F. Kennedy, Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and Sen. Robert F. Kennedy, Congress passed this law prohibiting convicted felons from possessing firearms. It also required licenses to trade in guns and created procedures to track serial numbers and control imports.

1984-1986 -- Comprehensive Crime Control Act and the Armed Career Criminal Act: These laws enhanced penalties for using or carrying firearms while committing serious drug offenses, for felons with three prior convictions of violent crimes or drug offenses, for using short-barreled rifles and shotguns and semiautomatic weapons and for automatic weapons or those equipped with a silencer.

1986 -- The Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986: Allowed licensed dealers to operate outside of their normal places of business, like gun shows, and excluded hobbyists or collectors from some regulations. It permitted sales of ammunition without a license, allowed convicted felons to obtain guns if their civil rights were restored after prison, and banned the production of machine guns for civilian use. It also made it illegal for anyone to sell firearms to those prohibited from owning them.

1993 -- The Brady Law: After a seven-year legislative battle, Congress passed the Brady Handgun Violence Protection Act, which required background checks for those buying firearms.

1994 -- Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act: Increased fees and required photographs and fingerprints to obtain a dealer's license.

1994 -- Youth Handgun Safety Act: Banned possession of handguns by those under 18 and prohibited adults from transferring them to juveniles.

1994 -- Assault weapon ban: The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act made it unlawful, with a few exceptions, to make, transfer, or possess semiautomatic assault weapons. It also made it illegal to possess large capacity magazines that held more than 10 rounds. The law expired in 2004. http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/10/politics/us-gun-laws/index.html?hpt=hp_t
2


As you can see, we've gone back and forth on the issue over time. It's interesting that way back in 1934 they passed a law to make the guns most used by gangsters; the effort now is to make guns used by the equivalent of our "gangsters" less available, in my opinion.

Also, I note that the 1994 law made it illegal to "make, transfer, or possess semiautomatic assault weapons", while from what I read, Obama's effort is merely to make illegal the SALE of such weapons.

It also seems to me that previous laws requiring background checks, photographs and fingerprints would be viewed by gun advocates today as massively infringing on their "rights", but seem to have been accepted quite well.

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Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:07 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


The 1994 AWB (Assault Weapons Ban) didn't make it illegal to own, transfer, or manufacture assault weapons or high-capacity magazines. It made it illegal to import new ones from other countries (Russia, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Egypt, China, etc.), but you could still buy, sell, and trade the "pre-ban" weapons that were already here. Also, you could manufacture new ones in the U.S., and many companies did. It wasn't so much a "ban" as a sop to the domestic arms industry as a way to guarantee them market share in the face of cheaper overseas competition (read "AK-47 variants from a plethora of other countries").

Also, you left out that George H.W. Bush banned 43 kinds of foreign semi-auto assault weapons from import in 1989.

Also, in 1994 Congress banned a couple rifles specifically, apart from the AWB, including the Soviet Dragunov sniper rifle and the Chinese version, the NDM-86. It was uncommon for them to single out specific models for banning from importation or sale, but they did it.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Thursday, January 17, 2013 10:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, Mike; looking around, it appears they got that wrong. I did find it strange when I read it, but took their word for it. Interesting...

ETA: Uh, they apparently weren't completely wrong. Text of the Bill at https://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/billfs.txt states:
Quote:

Assault Weapons
Bans the manufacture of 19 military-style assault weapons, assault
weapons with specific combat features, "copy-cat" models, and certain
high-capacity ammunition magazines of more than ten rounds.

...Creates new crimes or enhances penalties for: drive-by-shootings, use of semi-automatic weapons



Wikipedia expands on that:
Quote:

Title XI, subtitle A, formally known as the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, but commonly known as the Federal Assault Weapons Ban or Semiautomatic Assault Weapons Ban, barred the manufacture of 19 specific semi-automatic firearms, classified as "assault weapons" (a non-technical term), as well as any semi-automatic rifle, pistol, or shotgun that is capable of accepting a detachable magazine, and which has two or more of the following features: A telescoping or folding stock, a pistol grip, a flash suppressor, a grenade launcher, and a bayonet lug.

This law also banned possession of newly-manufactured magazines holding more than ten rounds of ammunition.


But again, aside from "possession" of newly-manufacturered high-capacity magazines, I don't see any ban on ownership of semi-autos or autos.

It's very confusing. Trying to sort out the bill/law itself, I do find parts like "It shall be unlawful for any person to possess an assault weapon, unless the weapon was lawfully and continuously possessed by the person since before the date of the enactment of this subsection."

and

"It shall be unlawful for any person to transfer an assault weapon", but I can't tell if they're part of the LAW that resulted from the bill being passed or not. Hmmm...


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Thursday, January 17, 2013 10:24 AM

CHRISISALL


Why not make it illegal to make, sell, own or make in any way available to anyone not in the military, assault or 'military-style' semi-automatic guns? And make it illegal to own, sell, trade, or make available to anyone an unregistered gun of any kind? Like, automatic 10 year prison term?
Wouldn't that do anything?

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Thursday, January 17, 2013 11:40 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)



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Thursday, January 17, 2013 11:44 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I like it Chris. Would never happen in this country and you know it.

Mike:


Well put!

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Friday, January 18, 2013 4:36 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

How gun rights radicals took over the NRA

In gun lore it's known as the Revolt at Cincinnati. On May 21, 1977, and into the morning of May 22, a rump caucus of gun rights radicals took over the annual meeting of the National Rifle Association.

The rebels wore orange-blaze hunting caps. They spoke on walkie-talkies as they worked the floor of the sweltering convention hall. They suspected that the NRA leaders had turned off the air-conditioning in the hope that the rabble-rousers would lose enthusiasm.

The NRA is a populist lobby. They get support when people are mad and stirred up ... What do they gain by compromising? Nothing.

The old guard was caught by surprise. The NRA officers sat up front, on a dais, observing their demise. The organisation, about a century old already, was thoroughly mainstream and bipartisan, focusing on hunting, conservation and marksmanship and it taught Boy Scouts how to shoot safely. But the world had changed, and everything was more political now. The rebels saw the NRA leaders as elitists who lacked the heart and conviction to fight against gun-control legislation.

And these leaders were about to cut and run: they had plans to move the headquarters from Washington to Colorado.

"Before Cincinnati, you had a bunch of people who wanted to turn the NRA into a sports publishing organisation and get rid of guns," one of the rebels, John Aquilino, said, speaking by phone from Brownsville, Texas.

What unfolded that hot night in Cincinnati forever reoriented the NRA. And this was an event with broader national reverberations. The NRA did not get swept up in the culture wars of the past century so much as it helped invent them - and kept inflaming them. In the process, the NRA overcame tremendous internal tumult and existential crises, developed an astonishing grass-roots operation and became closely aligned with the Republican Party.

The turmoil of the 1960s - assassinations, street violence, riots - spurred Congress to pass the Gun Control Act of 1968, the first serious piece of gun legislation since the New Deal. Supporters of gun control originally included then governor of California Ronald Reagan, who worried about the heavily armed Black Panthers.

The NRA did not like the 1968 law, viewing it as overly restrictive, but also did not see it as a slide towards tyranny. The top NRA officer Franklin Orth wrote in the association's publication American Rifleman that "the measure as a whole appears to be one that the sportsmen of America can live with".

The key word: "sportsmen."

In 1972, a federal agency charged with enforcing the gun laws came into being: the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Legislators raged against the terror of cheap handguns known as Saturday-night specials. It was in that environment that Neal Knox rose to prominence.

Clifford Neal Knox, born in Oklahoma, raised in Texas, a graduate of Abilene Christian College, started as a newspaper reporter and editor before founding, at the age of 30, Gun Week magazine. He wanted to roll back gun laws, even the ones that restricted the sale of machine guns.

In the second half of the 1970s, the NRA faced a crossroads. Would it remain an establishment institution, partnering with such mainstream entities as the Ford Foundation and focusing on shooting competitions? Or would it roll up its sleeves and fight hammer and tongs against the gun-control advocates?

The moderates felt rejected by the NRA hard-liners and the Washington elite.

"Because of the political direction the NRA was taking, they weren't being invited to parties and their wives were not happy," says Jeff Knox, Neal Knox's son and director of the Firearms Coalition which fights for the Second Amendment and against laws restricting guns or ammunition.

In Cincinnati, Knox read the group's demands, 15 of them, including one that would give the members of the NRA the right to pick the executive vice-president, rather than letting the NRA's board decide. The coup took hours to accomplish. By 3.30am the NRA had a whole new look. Gone were the old guard officers, such as the ousted executive vice-president Maxwell Rich, and into his place was an ideological soul mate of Knox's, Harlon Carter.

Carter's pugnacious approach, which rankled the old guard, was captured in a letter he wrote to the entire NRA membership to discuss the fight in Congress over gun control: "We can win it on a simple concept - no compromise. No gun legislation."

During the next few years, NRA membership tripled. With the presidential election of Reagan, the energised activists went on the offensive, hoping to roll back the 1968 gun-control laws and, in the process, abolish the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

After years of lobbying by the NRA, Congress passed the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986, which, among other gun-friendly provisions, eased restrictions on interstate sales of firearms and expressly prohibited the federal government from creating a database of gun ownership. The NRA endorsed the act even though it included a last-minute amendment pushed by gun-control advocates that further tightened the restrictions on machine guns.

That clause led hard-liners such as Knox to fear that the NRA had gone wobbly.

The NRA made a comeback in part because of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act. The gun-control effort, named for White House press secretary James Brady, who was wounded in the 1981 assassination attempt on Reagan, called for a seven-day waiting period on gun purchases and a background check on the buyer.

"What if there had been a Brady Bill 150 years ago? What if they had to wait seven days to get their rifles to come to the Alamo and fight?" an NRA vice-president, Robert Corbin, shouted to loud applause at the annual meeting in 1991 in San Antonio, according to The Washington Post's account. "What you're seeing now is the NRA on the way back," he said at the time.

The organisation had a new executive vice-president, as well: Wayne LaPierre, who knew the organisation inside out from years in the lobbying shop. LaPierre held the NRA media conference after the Sandy Hook shooting in Connecticut, in which he argued for armed guards in schools.

A retired ATF bureau official who is now a criminal justice professor at California State University at Sacramento, William Vizzard, said the NRA was not trying to be like other Washington organisation seeking to influence legislation. "The NRA is a populist lobby," he said.

"They get support when people are mad and stirred up. They want the attention. They're not interested in fixing things. They want to stir things up, and the more they stir things up, the more members they get and the more money they make. What do they gain by compromising? Nothing."

The Washington Post

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/how-gun-rights-radicals-took-over-the-n
ra-20130118-2cyob.html#ixzz2INug5aHw



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Friday, January 18, 2013 5:03 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Niki, that's why the AWB as enacted really didn't work that well. Too many loopholes, too short a time period.

One of the guns I have is a Saiga 7.62x39mm semi-automatic rifle. It is for all intents and purposes identical to a semi-auto version of an AK47, but it has a traditional hunting rifle stock on it, no flash suppressor or bayonet lug, and came with a 5-round magazine.

Here's the hinky part: Every one of those parts can be changed out, JUST AS LONG AS YOU REPLACE THEM WITH AMERICAN-MADE PARTS! That's right - I can make it look and function exactly like a semi-auto AK from Russia, as long as I do it with American parts.

It wasn't about solving the problem; it was about making sure American companies got paid for the problem.

I also have a "pre-ban" Chinese model, with pre-ban hardware on it - flash suppressor, bayonet lug, 30-round mags (you can even get 75-round drum mags for it for around a hundred bucks), folding collapsible stock, night-vision scope, etc. - and all of it is perfectly fine and legal under the wording of the ban, because it all came into the country before 1994.

It's kind of nuts, but that's American law for you...






"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Friday, January 18, 2013 5:28 PM

CHRISISALL


FLAG!!!!
Just kidding..

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Friday, January 18, 2013 6:57 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Meanwhile, Sarah Palin turns out to be a real gun grabber.

Quote:

In 2008, the Anchorage Daily News ran this deck bellow the headline: “NO MORE GUNS: Alaska State Defense Force stripped of many powers.”

Irony knows no bounds when it comes to the Tea Party.

In 2008, Tea Party Queen and Shoot ‘Em Up and Hang ‘Em Governor Sarah Palin (R-AK) disarmed brigade members of the Alaska State Defense Force (think volunteer militia) at the recommendation of the state military officials, based on a report by an investigator with the Washington National Guard.

(I)n a major decision proving unpopular with at least some of the force’s roughly 280 members, the state is taking away the brigade’s guns.
Yes, Sarah Palin, as executive of the state, took away their guns. And no, conservatives, you can’t have it both ways. Clearly they gave Sarah Palin the report and she took executive action on it (also known as “tyranny” when a Democrat does it).

“The report does not say Westall was a bad commander,” Campbell said. “The report says the state defense force, it’s a voluntary organization, it’s part time, it’s dedicated volunteers serving their state, but they don’t have the intensity of training, the skill sets the National Guard has.”



Full story at
http://www.politicususa.com/tea-party-darling-sarah-palin-disarmed-ala
ska-state-defense-force-militia.html



And again, you won't hear a single conservative voice any concern over this, and you won't hear them bring it up because they don't want you to know that they fully support and approve such measures when they're done by REPUBLICANS.





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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