REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Gun safety question

POSTED BY: NEWOLDBROWNCOAT
UPDATED: Friday, July 15, 2011 12:44
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Wednesday, July 13, 2011 6:18 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/0712/arizona_senator_lori_klein_la
wmaker_allegedly_points_gun_at_repo.html

Quote:



Arizona Senator Allegedly Points Gun at Reporter


But the lawmaker says the media frenzy is just an effort “to advance an anti-Second Amendment agenda.”
By Stephen Spencer Davis | Posted Tuesday, Jul. 12, 2011, at 10:47 AM EDT

Arizona state Sen. Lori Klein loves her pink Ruger pistol so much she just had to show it off to a reporter—by allegedly pointing it directly at his chest.

The pistol has no safety (because that would be crazy) and was loaded when Klein, a Republican, remarked “Oh it’s so cute,” and trained the gun’s laser sight on Arizona Republic reporter Richard Ruelas’ chest, the paper reports.

Klein insists the reporter was not in danger. “I just didn’t have my hand on the trigger,” she said in the Republic's initial account of the incident, which was detailed in a recent story about Klein’s decision to carry her loaded gun into the state Capitol only two days after the Tucson mass shooting that killed six and seriously injured Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, among others.

Klein said she was unaware she would be entering the House of Representatives the day she brought her gun to the Capitol, and might have considered leaving the weapon in her office. Still, she says she now carries the gun due to what she sees as lax security at the Capitol.

“It’s like an insurance policy,” she told the Republic.

Klein issued a statement on Monday evening with her version of the events, saying that she “ensured that the chamber was clear before displaying the weapon” to the reporter, adding, “That is basic gun safety and something that I do instinctively.”

She said that she won’t be giving any more interviews on the topic because it "makes little sense to contribute to a media feeding frenzy that is driven by a few individuals who never miss the opportunity to advance an anti-Second Amendment agenda.”

According to Klein’s account, she was pointing the laser sight at a wall at the request of a photographer when the Republic reporter sat down in its path. When Klein and the reporter “noticed the light,” she turned it off and apologized.

Klein said the reporter did not seem uncomfortable at the time, but that she learned several lessons. She said she will not show her gun to anyone again, because it “isn’t a fashion statement or accessory” and “if anyone wants to see a demonstration of any of my gun’s features, it will have to take place at a gun range.”

Doing this at a gun range, Klein writes, would allow someone to “better experience the enjoyment and security that hundreds of thousands of Arizonans enjoy as a result of our Second Amendment freedoms.”

Klein has carried a handgun since 2000, when someone rattled the door of her Moon Valley home. After it took police 10 minutes to respond to her call, she bought a .40 caliber revolver and slept with it.

Klein, who grew up around guns, first fired a BB gun at age six and went on childhood hunting trips with her father. According to the Republic, Klein has had “informal training sessions on each of her guns and was taught gun safety by her father.”

While Klein defends the rights of citizens to carry concealed weapons, she insists that it’s a personal choice. “I don’t like chocolate ice cream,” she said. “Am I going to force you not to have any?”

Because ice cream is exactly like guns.




Seems like the gun safety rules I learned were violated here.

I was taught to ALWAYS treat ANY gun as fully loaded and ready to go.

I was taught that ANY time you are handling a gun, you are dealing with deadly force.

I was taught to NEVER point ANY gun at ANY person unless you were willing to kill him on the spot.

I was taught NEVER to play ANY game with ANY gun, and NEVER to engage in ANY kind of horseplay with ANY gun.

Any of you Second Amendment guys or regular gun carriers have any comment?




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Wednesday, July 13, 2011 8:27 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I was taught all those things too. Klein is an idiot, she is foolish and deserves riticule if she's going to behave dangerously like that, shame on her. Plus ... why?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:07 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Any of you Second Amendment guys or regular gun carriers have any comment?




[raises hand]

Yeah, if this is accurate, she's an idiot. You were taught correctly.

ETA: This bit rankles, though:

Quote:

According to Klein’s account, she was pointing the laser sight at a wall at the request of a photographer when the Republic reporter sat down in its path. When Klein and the reporter “noticed the light,” she turned it off and apologized.



Okay, as a gun owner *I* am required to treat a gun as a deadly weapon, but when you know someone's got a gun out, and you're having them point it at something so the photographer can get his picture, YOU also have an obligation to treat it as a deadly weapon, and not sit directly in the line of fire!

It's looking like a he-said/she-said kind of story. If someone jumps in front of your gun while you're showing it to them, it's more than a little disingenuous to complain that they "aimed" it at you.

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Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:16 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Even though I don't own a gun, I know the basics, like you never casually point a gun at anyone, as she allegedly did. Hope it's not true.

If so, then she's beyond stupid. I hope she not only comes to realize how stupid it was, and apologizes, I hope she suffers nightmares for the tragedy she could have caused.



" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, July 14, 2011 6:43 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

I hope she not only comes to realize how stupid it was, and apologizes, I hope she suffers nightmares for the tragedy she could have caused
That has no chance of happening. As is obvious from her statement, she was justifying herself and feels no actual remorse, is merely being PC by apologizing.

As to the reporter sitting down in the gun sights, do we know if he was aware what she was doing, or just sat down without noticing? If he deliberately sat down in front of the gun, he's stupid; if he just sat down unawares, she's even more stupid--how could she NOT notice the laser sight was on him immediately?

All in all it was a regretable incident exemplifying the worst of both politics and gun stupidity. I don't think she's actually the least bit contrite, just bowing to political expediency.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:27 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
I was taught to ALWAYS treat ANY gun as fully loaded and ready to go.

I was taught that ANY time you are handling a gun, you are dealing with deadly force.

I was taught to NEVER point ANY gun at ANY person unless you were willing to kill him on the spot.

I was taught NEVER to play ANY game with ANY gun, and NEVER to engage in ANY kind of horseplay with ANY gun.


Ditto, ditto, and ditto. My grandfather, a lifetime member of the NRA, nearly tackled me to the ground once when I set an empty gun down with the barrel inadvertently pointing at my dad. He would have been beyond appalled at such deliberate barrel-pointing, a complete disregard of all known gun safety rules.


What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Thursday, July 14, 2011 8:23 AM

FREMDFIRMA



No dispute about it - if you ain't planning to shoot something with it, IT STAYS IN THE HOLSTER.
You wanna show it to someone, then you remove it without using a shooting grip on it, pop the mag, clear the chamber, and either hand it to them or lay it on a surface with the barrel pointing in a safe direction - which in an office building is no bloody where cause there's SOMEONE in line with that barrel and only thin drywall in between, oh hell no.

You do NOT haul it out with a shooting grip and go waving it around or pointing it at any damn thing like that, again, ESPECIALLY in a freakin office building, bloody moron.

Nor should you expect non gun folk to know even the basics, especially ANTI gun folk, who know even less and have all kinds of misconceptions about what they think they know, often as not.

It was completely irresponsible, potentially dangerous, and behavior like that is WHY some folk have issues with gun ownership to begin with.

Damn fool.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:04 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:


and behavior like that is WHY some folk have issues with gun ownership to begin with.




I appreciate your making that point.

And I love that the gun-- a Ruger-- is pink, and she thinks it's "cute". I also think I saw somewhere that it's a 10mm , or .40 S&W, which is way too big to be cute, but I can't document that fact at this time.

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Thursday, July 14, 2011 1:50 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:


and behavior like that is WHY some folk have issues with gun ownership to begin with.




I appreciate your making that point.

And I love that the gun-- a Ruger-- is pink, and she thinks it's "cute". I also think I saw somewhere that it's a 10mm , or .40 S&W, which is way too big to be cute, but I can't document that fact at this time.




She said she had a .40 S&W revolver, but the pink gun looks like a Ruger LCP, and she mentioned Ruger. Also, it's mentioned that it doesn't have a safety, which fits the profile for the LCP. They've also had some issues with them firing unintentionally if dropped with a round in the chamber, which is never a fun prospect...

I have a gun similar to the LCP - the .380 auto Grendel. Awful gun, just horrible. *IF* you can get it to feed, it's all but guaranteed to jam on you every 2nd round. It was a gift, but I've seriously considered turning it in to the police in one of their gun buy-back schemes, because it's utterly useless for defense or anything else. I joke that if I ever had to use it, I'd yell "Stop, or I'll THROW!" and then throw it at the perp, because while he was trying to get it to work against me, I could make a clean getaway!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, July 14, 2011 3:13 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Get a Bersa Mikey.

And yeah, imma COMPLETE hardass about it, I've slapped folk at the range, and taken more than one gun AWAY and handed it in to the RO for horseplay, sweeping, and crap like that - if you're gonna endanger folks LIVES with your misconduct, don't be too surprised when they respond aggressively in their own defense.

I damn near got courtmartialed for pistol-whipping an E-5 who tried to grab my arm on the pistol range while I was shooting cause he was angry I was ignoring him...
See, he was a rep for the MPO (Military Pagan Organization), which was at the time run by anti-pagan elements as a pacification/sabotage engine, and charged excessive and ludicrous dues/fees as well, so they got to screw us over AND make a buck... ergo I wanted nothing to do with them, and was blowing off his pitch.
And his dumb ass followed me onto the range, and once all clear downrange had been called and I was mentally "in the zone", I sure as hell wasn't listenting to him, and the RO was *already* coming over to make him leave, when he grabbed my arm just as I lined up - so I pistol whipped him and took a long step back... just as the RO (who thankfully outranked a mere E-5, or there woulda been problems galore) grabbed him and BODILY removed him from my presence before I shot his ass - he kinda wanted me locked up for that, but the commander flat told him if anyone was gonna catch it hot for that furball of stupid it was gonna be HIM, and he shoulda known better to follow ANYONE onto a live fire range, especially the company's designated shooter.

I wasn't real tolerant about poor gun safety before that, but after that and another incident I wasn't present for which resulted in a fatality, ever since I have ZERO tolerance for reckless behavior with a firearm, and NO sense of humor about it whatever.

You wave a gun around me like that, you better be planning to shoot me, or you're likely to eat the damn thing, grrr.

-Frem
PS. I'm actually all-for a minimum standard of safety training as requirement for purchase, I just don't want it in the hands of a Government proven to abuse such things, and would much rather have it as a condition of manufacturers and sellings being indemnified from lawsuit.

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Thursday, July 14, 2011 3:58 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


No need for the Bersa, since my trusty Ruger P85 is usually with me, and has never failed me in tens of thousands of rounds fired. It's a bigger frame than most people like for a CCW, but it's just about the smallest handgun I can comfortably shoot. The Grendel always felt ridiculous in my hand, and the LCP was no better - I had to contort a finger just to pull the trigger, and the recoil would smack the trigger guard backwards into my first knuckle every single time. Fired about 20 rounds through it and said, "No, thanks."

It's funny - as a kid, I used to think an Army-issue 1911 .45 was a *big* handgun, and my dad's .44mag Ruger Blackhawk was HUGE. Now, the 1911 feels almost tiny, and the .44 feels just about right.

That said, I have indeed looked at the Thunder a time or six. :)

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Friday, July 15, 2011 10:21 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Oh, I forgot you were a huge gorilla with meathook hands..
Bersa is way small for you, alas, you prolly would have trouble firing it, yeah.
I likes my itty bitty popgun, but depending on circumstance (like in winter when a heavy jacket covers it) I am leaning more and more in favor of packing the Taurus Judge with nonlethal shot, not necessarily for humanitarian reasons (although, really, why kill/harm someone you don't have to ?) but rather in that it reduces potential risk to bystanders and avoids the legal issues caused by prosecutors who seem to think self-defense is the sole province of the State... and finesse, less fuss, muss and mess, you know ?

Although I am not sure the smaller shells will have the same effectiveness as the 2-3/4" 12G shells I've found entirely sufficient for home defense though, gotta test that a bit.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, July 15, 2011 12:31 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:



And I love that the gun-- a Ruger-- is pink, and she thinks it's "cute".


I believe I owe the lady an apology- Following the various hints, I looked up the Ruger LCP, and it is a tiny, cute little gun, designed for ankle holsters, really, and using the .380 ACP cartridge.

My bad-- I'm not really a gun guy, just done a little reading. I thought of Ruger as making big automatic pistols, similar to the Browning and Beretta 9mms, and big single action magnum revolvers. Ya learn something every day...

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Friday, July 15, 2011 12:43 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Oh, I forgot you were a huge gorilla with meathook hands..
Bersa is way small for you, alas, you prolly would have trouble firing it, yeah.
I likes my itty bitty popgun, but depending on circumstance (like in winter when a heavy jacket covers it) I am leaning more and more in favor of packing the Taurus Judge with nonlethal shot, not necessarily for humanitarian reasons (although, really, why kill/harm someone you don't have to ?) but rather in that it reduces potential risk to bystanders and avoids the legal issues caused by prosecutors who seem to think self-defense is the sole province of the State... and finesse, less fuss, muss and mess, you know ?

Although I am not sure the smaller shells will have the same effectiveness as the 2-3/4" 12G shells I've found entirely sufficient for home defense though, gotta test that a bit.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.




.410 in the Judge should serve pretty well as a personal-defense weapon for concealed carry. It's got enough punch to take care of just about anything that can get close enough to you to be a real threat (although as you know, if they get TOO close, you don't even need your own gun - theirs will work just fine! ).


"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, July 15, 2011 12:44 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:



And I love that the gun-- a Ruger-- is pink, and she thinks it's "cute".


I believe I owe the lady an apology- Following the various hints, I looked up the Ruger LCP, and it is a tiny, cute little gun, designed for ankle holsters, really, and using the .380 ACP cartridge.

My bad-- I'm not really a gun guy, just done a little reading. I thought of Ruger as making big automatic pistols, similar to the Browning and Beretta 9mms, and big single action magnum revolvers. Ya learn something every day...




Seems like most major manufacturers these days offer all sorts of guns for all sorts of uses. Think of the LCP as a "purse gun"; it always pisses my buddy off when I refer to his LCP that way! ;)

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