Nuclear bombs don't kill people, people kill people. by 1kiki

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Nuclear bombs don't kill people, people kill people.

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 16, 2024 09:01
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Thursday, June 23, 2011 7:08 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So let's all go get some!

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Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:51 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Oh no, coffeeeeeeee

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Friday, June 24, 2011 1:49 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Good point. No nuclear bomb ever dropped itself on a city!

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Friday, June 24, 2011 2:20 AM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
So let's all go get some!

Every once in a while you post something I agree with.

This one really hits at the core of the matter: Guns don't kill people, but they make it a hell of a lot easier.

Picture the following scenes:

A teenager, fed up with school's trying social environment finally cracks. He decides to take out all the popular kids in school with one last stand. Dismayed that a bowie knife exceeds his state's legal limit, and not being a wiccan, he resorts to a steak knife. As he bursts through the doors, the classroom cowers in fear. Terror ensues as one by one he knocks off whatever teen he can get close to until Cordelia hits him on the head with a fire extinguisher.

A young man, down on his luck, decides that he will not be able to make ends meet. The bills he can ignore, but the money he owes Guido on corner might be paid for in body parts. He never should have taken the "free sample;" it affected his judgment and he had ended up driving home with three bags of cocaine, two hookers, and a car. He was able to sell the cocaine, but the hookers stole the car, and he need fifteen grand by high noon. He looks longingly at the bank, but knows it's outside his abilities, so he walks into 7/11 and pulls out his bow and arrow. Terrified, the clerk reaches for the register. The would be thief doesn't notice Alan Tudyk with a six pack of mountain dew.

When the Roman army came through it was all over. Olaf could spot them while they were still inches away. He knew it would be a split second before they conquered all of Norway. Each swing of the sword might cut down an entire village. He knew he had to do something, fast. He grabbed Gretta's hand and took a step backwards. The Roman army took a step forward. Gretta looked at Olaf. He should tell it was almost the end.

"We have a horse," she said.

Oh right, Hagbard. The Romans would get him too. He ran to the stable and grabbed his trust steed, turning to the spot where Gretta had stood, and his heart sank. It was nothing but Roman Soldiers.

"I'm over here" she said.

Gretta had mysterious wound up acrelength away. Some kind of witchcraft that was. That's why he loved her. But the only way to catch up with her now was to ride the horse. Oh, maybe that's why she meant to get it in the first place.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, June 24, 2011 7:34 AM

HARDWARE

Logical fallacy. Nuclear weapons require lots of intensive maintenance to remain weapons. With 1-3 years without maintenance even the simplest device would become inert. Cores degrade and need to removed and re-enriched. Electronics, even shielded, become compromised from the radiation bombardment.

Since the purpose of this seems to be to compare them to firearms...

I have a Gewehr '98 made in 1906. It has served in 2 World Wars and still functions as a rifle to this day. Maintenance on it during the intervening century has been minimal. Mostly consisting of keeping it out of the elements. I have a revolver that uses modern cartridges that was manufactured prior to 1898. Again, it still functions as designed. The cartridges are expensive, but still commercially available.

But you are correct in that a nuke, the Gewehr '98 and the 19th century revolver all are harmless without human hands and will to maintain and operate them.

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics - RAH

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Friday, June 24, 2011 11:23 AM

DREAMTROVE

Plutonium-239 has a half-life of 24,200 years. That's not going to degrade very quickly.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, June 24, 2011 11:36 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Plutonium-239 has a half-life of 24,200 years. That's not going to degrade very quickly.

But without the proper components to make it go boom, which DO degrade pretty quickly, it just sits there, not being a nuclear bomb.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, June 24, 2011 2:53 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Given how fast we backpedalled when North Korea proved that had one, and then went and attacked someone who didn't...

You could damn well make a case for Nuclear Weapons as a world-level CCW which keeps the vultures in red white and blue from barging in and looting your home country.

Same principle, greater scale.

And I like it even LESS in this respect cause I have strong religious objections to nuclear power, which become tooth-grindingly bitter at even the mere notion of weaponising it - the fire of the gods is NOT our playtoy, dammit.

Plus you've no idea how much it grinds my gears that my own nation, which I should be proud of, founded on principles I find morally valuable, has so cast them aside that I cannot even pretend any loyalty to this chunk of dirt beyond the ideals themselves, which barely exist here anymore.

Anyhow, the example of North Korea inadvertantly makes the case FOR Nuclear Weapons Proliferation, and I don't think that was your intention with this topic.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, June 24, 2011 3:04 PM

DREAMTROVE

Of course

The proper response is to build something that stops nuclear weapons. I figure everyone who opposes such a plan, regardless of their excuses, is a traitor. This isn't rocket science (Okay, quite precisely, it is) but when ancient human civ encountered swords, they responded with shields.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, June 25, 2011 2:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

But hey, if your shiny nuclear weapon goes bad you can always make a dirty bomb. (BTW Kwicko, no one needs to drop a bomb out of the sky - they work quite well just planted wherever you want.) That 'non-functioning' nuclear bomb - just got re-purposed and is back better than ever. Considering how innocent and harmless that bomb is all by itself ...

... what the hell - why not pick up a six pack today!

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Saturday, June 25, 2011 2:20 PM

KWICKO

Ah, but Kiki, an airburst tends to cause more damage, make a more widespread blast.

But of course you're right - you can set them off just about anywhere. We've set them off in the atmosphere, in space, in the oceans, underground, on ground, above ground.

But always, in every case, it took a human hand to initiate the detonation.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, June 25, 2011 3:35 PM

DREAMTROVE

The detonation blast is much more effective from the air, but it can be launched from a truck in city center.

Human hands are required today because a predator can't carry a mininuke yet. Yes, it will: our leaders are twice the moron it takes to actually make that happen.

Mike is spot on about the pressure firestorm. It can also be created by non-fissile material. The russians have an implosion device.

We just keep building bigger bombs. Actual defense would be nice.

BTW, radiation as a panic word is generational. To me, you say CFC, that's a panic word. Depleted Uranium? Not so much. This is because I know the event density required to cause radical mutations; but I also know that in the future, some society will have a de-chlorination procedure, but won't know how to cure neopox. A generation after them will have a panacea for all bioweapons, but won't know how to stop the mind eraser wave.

So, sure, a nuke is scary, and I've made the argument before "2a says arms, why can't I have a nuke?" but I also take Putin's point: "Nuclear weapons are obsolete." Why would the world's tough guy be disassembling nukes to use for reactor fuel while simultaneously building a massive attack force? He must really believe it. I suspect it's cheaper to create a compression wave with conventional materials, but also, that utterly destroying the enemy is pointless.

My main 2a concern is the right to a camera. Or cell phone.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, June 25, 2011 4:09 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Why stop at guns and bombs? Cars, trains, airplanes, football practice... the list of man made hazards just goes on and on and on!

We need robots to handle all this hazardous stuff so we don't hurt ourselves. Then we could have them build us a nice cocoon where we can be safe and plugged into a virtual world where we can avoid physically harming eachother while the robots use us as batteries. Everyone wins!

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Saturday, June 25, 2011 4:55 PM

HARDWARE

For the sake of argument you don't even need explosives to create a nuclear explosion. But you do require humans.

Putin's point of view is interesting. But it isn't that far from the Soviet view of nuclear exchange. They referred to it as "The Nuclear Battle". Following which there was a conventional war.

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics - RAH

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Saturday, June 25, 2011 6:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So, any reason why I shouldn't be allowed my own personal nukes?

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Saturday, June 25, 2011 6:54 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Or biological weapons, or landmines, or anti aircraft guns, or grenade launchers.....

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Saturday, June 25, 2011 10:58 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Common Sense and Humanity ?
Not that those are in any great supply amongst the political class, but I for one would rather eat dirt than inflict such as a bioweapon upon innocent bystanders.

-F

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Sunday, June 26, 2011 1:27 AM

HARDWARE

No laws preventing private nuclear weapons ownership.

Since they're not on the market, do you have the know how and resources to manufacture every component yourself?

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics - RAH

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Sunday, June 26, 2011 1:41 AM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Why stop at guns and bombs? Cars, trains, airplanes, football practice... the list of man made hazards just goes on and on and on!

We need robots to handle all this hazardous stuff so we don't hurt ourselves. Then we could have them build us a nice cocoon where we can be safe and plugged into a virtual world where we can avoid physically harming eachother while the robots use us as batteries. Everyone wins!

The batteries concept always annoyed me. It's one of the things that bugs me, because it doesn't quite work as science fiction. Computers actually don't require electric power if well defined, and there are far better sources than humans, which would require no control mechanism. Just exterminate humans and use photosynthesis.

A much better idea is that the network needs the processing power of interconnected human minds, one which had already been suggested by sources they were taking the idea from:

Which is not a comment against derivative content

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Monday, June 27, 2011 8:32 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I don't know, I think even the gods would do well to avoid nuclear, its way easier for Zeus to use his thunderbult and Thor to use his hammer, no clean up, easy peasy.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, June 27, 2011 9:54 AM

BYTEMITE

Supposedly the machines couldn't use plants because when humans boiled the atmosphere, no sunlight reached the surface anymore and the plants died off. But then that begged the question of how and what the humans were eating.

I suppose everyone in Zion could be a cannibal...

Dollhouse also used the (adrenaline charged) mind linked idea for processing power.

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Monday, June 27, 2011 10:26 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
The proper response is to build something that stops nuclear weapons. I figure everyone who opposes such a plan, regardless of their excuses, is a traitor. This isn't rocket science (Okay, quite precisely, it is) but when ancient human civ encountered swords, they responded with shields.

Most excellent, DT. Something America (and others) seem unwilling to consider as a viable "defense"...but then we're used to going on the offense, so it's not surprising, I suppose.

Then again, if a defense was found for nukes, I suppose someone would come up with something NASTIER, and so it goes. We're a warlike little species, fer shore.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, June 27, 2011 12:05 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Well the technical problem isn't with frying the warheads electronics, it's with targeting and warm-up time.
Mind it, it wouldn't stop a conventional explosive scattering radioactive material, but it would put paid to the mechanisms required to initiate critical, rather handily.

China already has something of the sort, and the ability to screw up the electronics of any satellite they please - not to mention they're almost finished working over a former soviet aircraft carrier for modern field use.

Ain't it great when BILLIONS of your tax dollars paid into intelligence agencies come with no result but blowback and harrassment of their protectees - but joe schmoe with an internet connection can pull more actionable intel in half an hour than the CIA has in all their history ?

So, umm... why are you paying them, again ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, January 16, 2024 9:01 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

Renewable energy’s alternative to uranium

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2024/01/12/renewable-energys-alternative-to
-uranium/

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