REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Monday, May 16, 2011 18:19
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VIEWED: 2127
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Friday, May 13, 2011 1:48 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Bravo!

Fox News reports that Haas' actions were in response to the arrest of another student, who was charged with taking and burning the American flag once posted at LSU's War Memorial. That incident came just hours after Osama bin Laden's killing by US Navy SEALS last week.


http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/flag-burning-lsu-campus-20110511-ncx


O.K., so two wrongs don't make a right.


Some idiot took a flag from a memorial and burned it. NOT cool. Had he burned his OWN damn flag, fine...but stealing and destroying another ? That's vandalism, not 'free speech'.

Then some clown, in support for the first moron, gets more than he bargained. Shouts ensue, and apparently things started to be thrown at the guy ( bottles ) which is a big no no. ( Unless they were plastic bottles? )


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, May 13, 2011 4:00 AM

HARDWARE


As I have pointed out before, freedom of speech does not protect you from the reaction of your fellow citizens.

But since this happened at a university I don't expect rational thought. I mean, university students are the type who wear a Che Guevara shirt they bought at the Gap.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Friday, May 13, 2011 11:29 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Heck, I've got a Che Guevara shirt. I used to make 'em and sell 'em for $56 each. Nice 8-color ink-discharge print on black 100% cotton tees.

I wear it, and call it "dressing with irony". Irony is selling a Che Guevara tee for $56. :)



Burn your own flag, and I'll likely have some choice words for you. Burn someone else's American flag, and you're destroying another person's property. In Texas, that's "reasonable cause" for shooting someone. Yup, under our Castle Doctrine, you can be shot for vandalism.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, May 13, 2011 12:34 PM

HARDWARE


If Texas had open carry it would be about perfect.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Friday, May 13, 2011 12:47 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Hardware:
If Texas had open carry it would be about perfect.




I'm okay with concealed carry, myself.

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Saturday, May 14, 2011 4:05 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Heck, I've got a Che Guevara shirt.




Yeah... t-shirts w/ pictures of thugs who murdered innocent folks, for the pure enjoyment of it, that is soooo cool!




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, May 14, 2011 12:02 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Rappy, I'm surprised to hear you finally come out in opposition to free market capitalism. I take it you're similarly against anyone selling shirts marking the death of Bin Laden, yes? Do you also oppose people selling pictures of Dubya Bush? He killed hundreds of thousands, seemingly just for kicks, after all.

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Saturday, May 14, 2011 12:08 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Heck, I've got a Che Guevara shirt.




Yeah... t-shirts w/ pictures of thugs who murdered innocent folks, for the pure enjoyment of it, that is soooo cool!




By the way, your sentence, with its current punctuation and word placement, reads more like " t-shirts... for the pure enjoyment of it, that is soooo cool." What do you have against people wearing the t-shirt of their choice?

We already get that you're quite against free speech; you've said as much yourself, and claimed that you'd be more than willing to use violence to quell free speech if given the opportunity.

But now you're coming out in opposition to freedom of expression of any kind? I am not allowed to make something with my own hands to sell to others for a profit, so that I may buy things that others make which I want?

How surprising that... isn't.

I am not allowed to make something with my own hands to sell to others for a profit, so that I may buy things that others make which I want?

I also printed and sold "Cthulhu for President - Why Vote for the Lesser Evil?" t-shirts. I'm sure you're shocked that I would support an imaginary literary character for a leadership position.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, May 14, 2011 2:08 PM

HARDWARE


I thoroughly approve of people paying outrageous prices for a shirt with a picture of a communist killer on it.

But I like this one best. Designed by Oleg Volk, a guy that lived under a communist regime.



The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Saturday, May 14, 2011 4:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Rappy, of course, is all for "freedom!". Unless somebody says something he doesn't want to hear. And then, not so much. Just like Wulf.

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Saturday, May 14, 2011 6:00 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Rappy, of course, is all for "freedom!". Unless somebody says something he doesn't want to hear. And then, not so much. Just like Wulf.



Yup - he fully supports your freedom to believe what he believes.

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Saturday, May 14, 2011 6:35 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Heck, I've got a Che Guevara shirt.




Yeah... t-shirts w/ pictures of thugs who murdered innocent folks, for the pure enjoyment of it, that is soooo cool!



Yeah, don't you hate revolutionaries. I mean, when has a revolution EVER led to anything good.

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 4:33 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Rappy, of course, is all for "freedom!". Unless somebody says something he doesn't want to hear. And then, not so much. Just like Wulf.



Yeah, and we all know how FREE folks are down in Cuba.




But aside from that, Che was a world class dirt bag and no friend to 'the people'. He ruined the lives ( or flat out had them killed ) of many, and had useful idiots buying into the crap that he actually CARED for anyone but himself.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 5:13 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


So you're saying he was just like Reagan, right?

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 5:21 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yeah, we all know how free folks are in Cuba. Dissident opinions are not welcome. So why do you want to reproduce that HERE? The thing that makes this nation different, what this nation was first in was not capitalism, but freedom of expression, right to privacy, fair trials, the rule of law, and the thing you despise so much- democracy.

But you'd just chuck it away because you're a pissy-pants scaredy-cat. The minute some boogeyman shows up ... or even a stupid student who vandalizes a memorial... you just want to roll over all of those "silly" details about political rights and rule of law and just... yanno.. go after whoever it is you disagree with, get out the wiretaps and tasers and waterboards and mobs and pound your villain du jour into the ground in a frenzy of fear-turned-anger.

I know that you're going to say that I'm putting words into your mouth, but how else can anyone explain that you're always... and I mean, every single friggin' time w/o exception... on the wrong side of everything this country really stands for? I want you to read this, write it on a piece of paper, memorize it if necessary. It is the exact quote from Ben Franklin, and is addressed directly to you

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

And, no, he wasn't talking about running a business being "liberty"

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 5:32 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
So you're saying he was just like Reagan, right?



No, I'm saying he's just like your mom.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 5:42 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Quote:

Yeah, we all know how free folks are in Cuba. Dissident opinions are not welcome. So why do you want to reproduce that HERE?



That's among the most idiotic, disconnected and mindless responses I think I've ever seen.

You must first detach yourself from any and all context from the LSU story, and then completely ignore all the executions Che took part in or signed off on, as well as all the human rights violations committed by THE GOVERNMENT of Cuba , on its own citizens...

Sorry, but in the real world, that's a journey of the absurd which I'll forgo.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 6:00 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You must first detach yourself from any and all context from the LSU story
Well, if this is a piece of advice, I wish you'd follow it.

Your problem, Rappy, is that you CAN'T detach yourself from context. So a single category ... For example "terrorism", which is the targeting of civilians to gain a political end... looks very different to you depending on whether it is framed as "shock and awe" or "kill the infidel".

Political oppression is oppression, no matter what direction its coming from. Mob rule is mob rule, whether its a lynch mob to hang a slave or to run off Westboro protesters. Politically-motivated Killing is killing, whether it's to (ironically) promote "freedom" or to (ironically) promote "socialism". Because the ONLY thing that politically-motivated killing promotes is oppression.

You can't promote freedom with oppression, or promote peace with war.

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 6:02 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Context matters. Always.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 6:14 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Context matters little.

Contextual thinking is significant flaw in human learning (has been explored by many neurobiologists) and the fundamental mechanism how people can fully support two wildly opposing ideas at the same time. That is why you can say things like "freedom is crushed by democracy" without having a little (huh???) moment in the middle.

Context is THE primary tool of propagandists everywhere, used to manipulate people into doing things against their own interests.

Changing contexts allows one to identify similar trends in different situations.

The opponent of contextual thinking is logic and rationality... thought processes you claim to have mastered, but of which you know little. In order to be rational, you MUST set aside context.

If your idea does not survive a change of context, it probably wasn't very good to begin with.

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 6:17 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:



Contextual thinking is significant flaw in human learning (has been explored by many neurobiologists) and the fundamental mechanism how people can fully support two wildly opposing ideas at the same time. That is why you can say things like "freedom is crushed by democracy".





It's that sort of hooey that confuses the issue and blurs the facts, making rational thought all but non existent.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 6:22 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Do try to keep up. It's not "hooey", it's THINKING.

How are things the same? How are they different? What happens if I change the victim and perp from this to that? Am I still feeling the same way? Does this change my goals?

It's an internal discussion that is required for intelligent decision-making. It clears out a lot of implanted/ automatic responses; clarifies a helluva lot of things, makes people smarter and less apt to fail.

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 6:31 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


You're speaking in very broad generalities, and ignoring the very real world details and significant points.

You're getting stuck on stupid, and you don't even know it.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 6:45 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You're speaking in very broad generalities, and ignoring the very real world details and significant points.
If the points were significant, they wouldn't get lost in the shuffle.

So, let me ask you: What are YOUR "significant" points? The only thing I get out of your post is that you're happy that a mob set on a guy who did nothing more than say something the others disagreed with, and that this is somehow a celebration of "freedom"?

I'm not getting anything significant out of the story, other than you love to bury yourself in the middle of a mob.

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 6:46 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

You're speaking in very broad generalities, and ignoring the very real world details and significant points.
If the points were significant, they wouldn't get lost in the shuffle.

So, let me ask you: What are YOUR "significant" points? The only thing I get out of your post is that you're happy that a mob ran off a vandal.

So?



A SIGNIFICANT point you overlooked...

" two wrongs don't make a right "

Funny, it's only lost in the shuffle when you IGNORE it, huh ?


Yes, I'm very glad the students got vocal and shouted down this a-hole. That some ( how many, I don't know ) started getting physical, isn't good. But you have to look at the course of events...

- OBL killed
- Americans celebrate
- SOME DIRT BAG STEALS AN AMERICAN FLAG ( not his own )FROM A MEMORIAL SITE, AND THEN BURNS IT
- Followed by another idiot who wants to burn ANOTHER flag ( this one his ) in protest...is denied because he didn't acquire the proper permit for burning, so he protests anyway
- Which, given the time line of events ( obl killed, Flag from memorial site desecrated ), has folks rightfully ticked off.

It was a stupid idea, at the wrong time, and served no real purpose, other than simply piss off those who were already upset over the 1st flag burning.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 6:50 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


"Two wrongs don't make a right.... BUT...."

Yanno what they say about the word "but"?

1) "Yes, but..." means "no".

2) Ignore anything before the word "but".



So, did you just reduce your post to insignificance?

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 6:57 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Yes, I'm very glad the students got vocal and shouted down this a-hole. That some ( how many, I don't know ) started getting physical, isn't good.


BUT

Quote:

You have to look at the course of events...
- OBL killed
- Americans celebrate
- SOME DIRT BAG STEALS AN AMERICAN FLAG ( not his own )FROM A MEMORIAL SITE, AND THEN BURNS IT
- Followed by another idiot who wants to burn ANOTHER flag ( this one his ) in protest...is denied because he didn't acquire the proper permit for burning, so he protests anyway
- Which, given the time line of events ( obl killed, Flag from memorial site desecrated ), has folks rightfully ticked off.
It was a stupid idea, at the wrong time, and served no real purpose, other than simply piss off those who were already upset over the 1st flag burning.



Sorry BUT (not sorry, then), these are just excuses for stupid UN-AMERICAN behavior. If THESE students had bothered to do some extra-contextual thinking, maybe their actions wouldn't be subject to whatever is yanking on their short-hairs that day. As far as I can tell, they're nothing more than soccer hoodlums for a different team.

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 6:57 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
"Two wrongs don't make a right.... BUT...."

Yanno what they say about the word "but"?

1) "Yes, but..." means "no".

2) Ignore anything before the word "but".



So, did you just reduce your post to insignificance?



Again, with the broad generalities, and ignoring the finer points.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 6:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Hmmm... the use of the word "but" IS a rather fine point, innit?

Rappy, you just aren't gonna win this one. Would you be so supportive if an angry crowd beat and stomped a guy over a baseball team? Or trashed a campus dorm over a lost game? Or wrecked a city block over "free trade" negotiations? Changing context will tell YOU what YOU'RE really thinking, what YOU'RE really supporting. You should try it some time.

It might save you from posts in which you approve of mob rule and suppressed speech in support of freedom.

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 7:05 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Hmmm... the use of the word "but" IS a rather fine point, innit?



No, not really. You're using it to obscure the issue, again.


" but " refers to the fact that there is more to the story than just the over simplified tripe you're trying to spin here.

Also, I'm sure you missed this...

"You had a lot of people on both sides of the debate getting into a lot of fights," said James Haralson, manager of Tiger TV, the university television station.

It wasn't just a bunch of rowdy frat boys, throwin' rocks and bottles at the long haired hippie grad student. The ruckus was from both sides. One could say the ruckus STARTED with the long haired hippie grad student. His rights were protected, by the cops, btw... which I'm guessing is much to your chagrin.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 7:18 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


No. Actually glad the cops did the right thing for a change.

But let's change the scene. The place is LSU, the speaker is a Xtian who has permission to burn a Koran.

The place is Tehran University, the speaker a pro-democracy student.

The place is Central University of Venezuela, the speaker is for Hugo Chavez.

The exact same events result.

Who is wrong? Who is right? And why?

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 7:26 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I found this as an explanation of what I'm talking about:
Quote:

The Flaws Of Human Thinking

June 12, 2008 · 3 Comments

The New Scientist recently interviewed NYU psychologist and linguist Gary Marcus about the clumsiness of the human brain. Marcus describes the brain as “a clumsy collection of spare parts” — a kluge. “A kluge is a clumsy or inelegant solution to a problem that gets the job done, but not necessarily in the best way possible.”

When asked what the problem is with humans thinking of themselves as perfectly designed, rational beings, Marcus answers:

Economists make that mistake. They assume that humans are rational, but they aren’t necessarily. And I think that people almost always overestimate their own abilities. They overestimate the quality of their memory, and how careful they are at reasoning. That contributes to political polarisation, for example, where everyone is convinced that they know the truth and nobody else does. I don’t think that’s a very good thing for the species.

Marcus then offers ways to make our imperfect human brains work better:

In the long term we may be able to take control of evolution, to adopt new technologies or something like that. In the short term, what they say in Alcoholics Anonymous makes sense – recognition is the first step. We have to see what the limits are and try to work around them.

A good example is that we have this thing called confirmation bias, where we notice evidence that supports our own theories. You can counteract that by forcing yourself to systematically think about alternative hypotheses, and about the perspective that somebody else might take. We don’t do that naturally but we can train ourselves to do it.

Scientists are forced to do that to some extent. But everybody could do with a little bit more humility about their own intellectual powers, and realise that, if somebody disagrees with them, maybe they’re looking at the evidence in a different way; it’s not necessarily that they’re stupid and you’re smart. The more we can recognise that other people are working as best they can from their evidence, that could make us more sympathetic and perhaps we can get along better.

For all the clumsiness of the human brain, recognition of our own thinking is paradoxically elegant. Marcus calls recognition the first step, but I call it the foundation of enlightenment and more perfect thinking.



www.attentionmax.com/the_flaws_of_human_thinking

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Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:05 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Pretty sure my mom never killed anyone. Are you trying to say now that Che never killed anyone either? We all know Reagan killed aplenty!

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Monday, May 16, 2011 1:54 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Yeah... t-shirts w/ pictures of thugs who murdered innocent folks, for the pure enjoyment of it, that is soooo cool!
This is gonna sound weird, but y’know, Raptor never said the t-shirts should be prohibited, did he? He just expressed his disgust at the subject matter of the t-shirt. I’m not saying he WOULDN’T prohibit them, given his thinking as expressed in the past, but it’s just as much his free speech to say “Yuck!” as it is anyone else’s to put Che on a t-shirt, yes?

I mean, I can see the gross photos anti-abortionists hold up and say “Ewww, how disgusting!”, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to STOP them, or think they SHOULD be stopped. Yes, Raptor has expressed a willingness to use violence to stop the Westboros, so maybe I’m wrong, but to me, because it’s Raptor, WE see things through our own veil.

On the other hand, he did come back with
Quote:

Yeah, and we all know how FREE folks are down in Cuba.
rather than saying he didn’t LIKE the t-shirts but wouldn’t demand they were banned or anything, so I may be wrong. His response was the DEFEND his previous statement, rather than point out that he expressed revulsion, not a desire to censor, so I certainly may be wrong.

Unfortunately, Raptor, you just made your case worse by your response to
Quote:

Dissident opinions are not welcome. So why do you want to reproduce that HERE?
being
Quote:

That's among the most idiotic, disconnected and mindless responses I think I've ever seen.

You must first detach yourself from any and all context from the LSU story, and then completely ignore all the executions Che took part in or signed off on, as well as all the human rights violations committed by THE GOVERNMENT of Cuba , on its own citizens...

Sorry, but in the real world, that's a journey of the absurd which I'll forgo.

Waaay off the deep end; her remark was valid. She was pointing out that PROHIBITING a t-shirt showing Che would be what happens in Cuba, which is something America stands against: the censorship. In that she is totally correct, and not idiotic, disconnected OR mindless; IF you are saying you would prohibit the t-shirt, which is how it appears.

It has nothing to do with Che. It has nothing to do with the context of the t-shirt. It has to do with allowing even the things you find most abhorrent, no matter what they be, because we believe in free speech. If “context matters” means that people shouldn’t have the right to make, sell or wear t-shirt with context you think is wrong, then you’re against free speech, pure and simple. Context DOES NOT matter, when it comes to this issue.

When it comes to the LSU thing, it sounds like you are in favor of the guys going after the flag-burning person’s defender. Does that mean if you were there, you would be one of them? If so, again, doing so would be to trample on his free speech. If not, if you’re just in favor of what they did, that’s just an opinion and you’re entitled to it, however wrong it might be to anyone else.

Do you understand what I’m trying to say? I’m saying that I’m not sure what you’re intent is, and it’s occurred to me that we might automatically jump to “you’d prohibit it, then” at times like this when you express an opinion, when I’m not positive we’d go that way if anyone else said some of the things you do. On the other hand, if by what you say, you are indicating that you WOULD censor those you disagree with, in either or both situations, then I’m wrong...and so are you.
Quote:

It's that sort of hooey that confuses the issue and blurs the facts, making rational thought all but non existent.
No, that’s a way to fluff off a perfectly valid statement---AND something which is a very serious issue. Americans can say “freedom of speech”!, but if they want to curb that freedom of speech because they disagree, that’s where context comes in and the context causes them to have two opposing opinions at the same time. Just like if a Black man, as recently happened, said he wouldn’t even consider appointing a Muslim if he were elected President. I’d be willing to bet that (at least before it was brought to his attention, because I see he backtracked) if someone had told this guy X person wouldn’t appoint a Black man to his cabinet, this guy would be screaming “discrimination”! Yet, because of the context, he didn’t see the dichotomy: hat in this country, discrimination is illegal and I’m sure he believes it’s wrong.

Do you grasp what I’m trying to explain about context?
Quote:

You're speaking in very broad generalities, and ignoring the very real world details and significant points.

You're getting stuck on stupid, and you don't even know it.

YOU are deflecting, and not even attempting to think. It IS a matter of generalities, insofar as NOTHING should be censored (except the things which are legally censored, for good reasons). It doesn’t matter what the context is, or whether we agree with it or not, freedom of speech is either protected or it’s not.

I understand your caveat that “two wrongs don’t make a right...BUT...” and disagree with Sig on that. “But” can be an inclusive, not intended to negate the previous statement. Let’s see: “She’s gorgeous enough to be Miss USA, BUT, is that the only criteria?” Many ways “but” can MODIFY the concept, not negate it, just as Raptor wrote (ignoring the rest of the verbiage)

She IS right, nonetheless, that in this case “but” seems to mean that two wrongs SOMETIMES make a right---the “wrong” in this case is mob mentality and “what she said about stupid Un-American behavior. You’re free to AGREE with that behavior; however, if you would act the same as they did, you’re no better than them. If you’re trying to use “The ruckus was from both sides” as an EXCUSE for the mob, you’re back to the “context” issue (see above). It doesn’t matter who started anything; violent repression of free speech is wrong.

Sig’s analogy in her last post is relevant and puts the issue in simple terms. I’ll be interested to see if you have any response and, if so, what it might be. In other words, I’m interested in whether you understand that context SHOULDN’T be the issue, or if you’ll only deflect and defend.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Monday, May 16, 2011 2:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I'm for freedom and profit and I'll kill anyone who disagrees with me!

signed
Auraptor

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Monday, May 16, 2011 4:10 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Niki

Your overly tedious, irrationally cobbled together diatribe isn't really worth my time to dissect or reply to, other than to say - wow.

Is it the drugs which drives you to ramble on like that ? That's my first guess.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, May 16, 2011 4:29 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


AURaptor, you are outnumbered which must mean you are wrong, so I'm going to take a moment and follow their example. Let's see if mt arguments can measure up to the elegance of theirs.

Hey Doucherap, whatever we were talking about is not as important as how much you suck. Just so you know, your own words defeat you and I will prove it with an example.

Quote:

Hi, my name is Rappy and I eat my own farts. I like glitter and ponies and pooped my pants once in a thunderstorm.

Sincerely AURaptor


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Monday, May 16, 2011 4:40 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Niki

Is it the drugs which drives you to ramble on like that ? That's my first guess.




You speak from experience, no doubt. You seem to have been lost on drugs for years here.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, May 16, 2011 4:41 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
AURaptor, you are outnumbered which must mean you are wrong, so I'm going to take a moment and follow their example. Let's see if mt arguments can measure up to the elegance of theirs.

Hey Doucherap, whatever we were talking about is not as important as how much you suck. Just so you know, your own words defeat you and I will prove it with an example.

Quote:

Hi, my name is Rappy and I eat my own farts. I like glitter and ponies and pooped my pants once in a thunderstorm.

Sincerely AURaptor





You've got the name-calling part down pretty well, but you forgot to put in the bits about wanting to fuck someone's dead mother. Rappy's classy like that, he really is.

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Monday, May 16, 2011 4:54 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

You've got the name-calling part down pretty well, but you forgot to put in the bits about wanting to fuck someone's dead mother. Rappy's classy like that, he really is.


Yeah, I'm also good at the misspelling/grammer issues, but that's beside the point.

I disagree with AURaptor more often than not, but catching up on these threads, he's being kicked around a lot and I don't believe he deserves everything he's getting. I wasn't here for before last fall, so I won't comment on that, but I don't care for the childish name calling and putting words in people's mouths no matter who they are or how much they deserve. It's one thing if it's just 1 on 1 bitching best to be ignored, but this is like 5-7 on 1 and it just doesn't seem fair. Not that it should... If two wrongs don't make a right why should 6 or so, right?

Ain't saying I'm any better than anyone else here or entirely innocent. No reason for y'all to do anything other than what you've intended to, I just had to post this or it would bother me.

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Monday, May 16, 2011 5:13 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"I'm for freedom and profit and I'll kill anyone who disagrees with me!"

This is pretty much the sum of rap's argument, as ridiculous as it is. All I'm doing is paraphrasing.

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Monday, May 16, 2011 6:19 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I definitely think that the guy who burnt said flag was kind of askin for it if you know what I mean, I mean, a war memorial flag? Right after Osama was killed? Pa-lease, he/she was asking for it for sure. Like was mentioned, there aren't any laws against other people reacting negatively to one's free expression. Would I have chased after him and beat him up? No. Would I have called him a trashball and said he should be ashamed of himself and walked away in disgust? Maybe, because that really is too much. If he wants to burn a flag that he buys then that is his choice, but burning someone else's flag isn't okay, couldn't he be charged with destroying someone else's property.

And as for Raptor, he and Quicko actually were having a reasonable conversation for the first few posts, say it ain't so! But then they weren't, in the words of Inara "Well that didn't take long"

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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