REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Is Wisconsin a victory for unions?

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, March 14, 2011 15:01
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Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:16 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


...and Democrats?
Quote:

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has won an important battle against public employees in his state, but the war -- and here we might justifiably call it the class war -- is far from over. By pushing through the state Legislature a bill stripping most public employees of their collective bargaining rights, Walker has become a hero to the Republican right.

But the outcome of this legislative melodrama is turning out to be of secondary import to the larger shift in political sentiment that the Wisconsin events have set in motion. The irony here is that as Republican officeholders attack public sector unions in Wisconsin and other Northern states that were once union bastions, including Ohio, Idaho, Indiana and Pennsylvania, public support for collective bargaining remains strong.

Just this week a Bloomberg National Poll found that 64% of respondents -- both Democrats and Republicans -- say public employees should have the right to bargain collectively for their wages. The Wisconsin events have energized unionists and liberal Democrats, whose activism and ideas are essential to any remobilization of the Obama forces.

And the way we talk about unions -- and here I include the conservatives -- is beginning to shift onto a terrain that is much more favorable toward organized labor. Two years ago, unions took it on the chin when the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and other anti-union groups spent millions on an advertising blitz that tarred organized labor as thuggish and boss-controlled.

The ad campaign succeeded in stymieing union/Democratic Party efforts to pass a law, the Employee Free Choice Act, which would have facilitated union organizing by making majority sign-up -- "card check" -- an alternative path toward rapid union certification. That would have bypassed the lengthy, employer-dominated election process during which workers frequently come under sustained and intense management pressure to vote against unionization.

And in that same political season, the bailout of General Motors and Chrysler, traditionally unionized auto firms, generated an enormous backlash against the United Automobile Workers and other unions, which Republicans now labeled as special interest beneficiaries of the much-maligned stimulus.

But that kind of rhetoric carries a lot less weight today. Although Walker labels his laborite opponents as "union bosses," the charge hardly resonates when tens of thousands of animated and determined schoolteachers, librarians, home health care workers and firemen fill the Statehouse rotunda and the surrounding streets almost every day.

Walker's real objection, and that of other Republicans, flows from the capacity of the unions to deploy their energy and dues to support politicians and causes that sustain the welfare state, tax the rich, and bedevil his party. The near-spontaneous demonstrations which have erupted in so many states are a good indication that many rank-and-file unionists enthusiastically back their own labor leadership.

This is the kind of social energy and popular mobilization that was sorely missing from the labor effort to pass EFCA last year or rescue the auto companies from bankruptcy. In Wisconsin, labor and the Democrats are now channeling this revolt toward the potential recall of at least eight Republican state senators. So we are finally getting a liberal version of the social and political anger that last year characterized the Tea Party eruption.

Right-wing assertions of a conspiracy between public employee unions and friendly officials represent a triumph of ideology over experience. Government officials, even those elected with union backing, have hardly been patsies when it comes to negotiations with state and municipal employees.

We've had plenty of union-management battles in the public sector, going all the way back to the strikes of teachers, garbage collectors, and social workers who led the way to the formation of municipal unions in the 1960s and 1970s. And in more recent years, tough bargaining sessions, full of layoff threats and midnight deadlines, have preceded the compromises that are embodied in virtually every public employee collective bargaining contract.

But it is not just a question of money or pensions. Anyone who has worked in a school, a government office, a firehouse or a police station knows that conflicts, petty and grand, exist between workers, their bosses, and the bureaucracy in which both are enmeshed.

Unions are essential to represent workers at the bottom of this heap and to make the whole system work in more equitable fashion. The drama unfolding in the state of Wisconsin is educating Americans to this reality.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/03/10/lichtenstein.wisconsin.unions/in
dex.html


Y'think? One can only hope...

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Sunday, March 13, 2011 5:23 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Oh it's coming, oh indeedy it is.



-F

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Monday, March 14, 2011 9:13 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Yes, the adults have done the right thing. The children, after their temper tantrum, will come to their senses, and get over it.

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Monday, March 14, 2011 11:05 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


More childish blather...with absolutely no point whatsoever. Blather on.

I would say we get to crow at you guys if the future brings what we think it does, but just watch; betcha there's no crowing and snarking if we're right, 'cuz that's YOUR arena, which shows which the children are...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Monday, March 14, 2011 11:10 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



If you want Wisconsin to go the way of California, by all means... go for it, dude!

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Monday, March 14, 2011 11:39 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Now, Now... NOONE wants the rest of the country to go the way of Cali.

Jesus Christ, can you imagine it?

(shiver)

THANK GOD WE LIVE IN A REPUBLIC.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Monday, March 14, 2011 1:02 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Neither of you knows the first thing about California, we're just an easy target because we're more tolerant than many other states. If it were possible for either of you to actually tell us the things you hate about California (and not overblown rhetoric, but actual things which really exist), it might be worth conversing. But you don't, you don't want to, and it fits your purpose to make us the butt of your jokes. That's fine, I'm DAMNED glad to live in a state which doesn't do the things I see other states do, has the weather we have, every ecosystem the rest of America has except the everglades, our diversity and diversity of interests, and is more tolerant of all kinds of people and all kinds of ideas. Please don't ever come here, we reeeely don't need people like you!

I can't resit: are EITHER of you capable of actually citing things about California which you hate...actual, real things, not things which only exist in your imagination? I don't think so, but I dare you nonetheless.

I find it amusing that, rather than address the issue at hand in this thread, you went the way you did. Obviously you have no comeback to the article I posted. Pretty much says it all.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Monday, March 14, 2011 1:10 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Now, Now... NOONE wants the rest of the country to go the way of Cali.

Jesus Christ, can you imagine it?

(shiver)

THANK GOD WE LIVE IN A REPUBLIC.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"





Are you speaking for Peter Noone again?

By the way, blood-red Texas is in a deeper financial hole than California. Two traits they share: $25 billion plus in debt and budget shortfalls, and both have had Republican governors for the past 8 years or more.

I'm sure that's just a coincidence... ;)

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, March 14, 2011 1:48 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

If you want Wisconsin to go the way of California, by all means... go for it, dude!




Has a funnier post ever been posted? 'nuff said...lol

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Monday, March 14, 2011 1:50 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

If you want Wisconsin to go the way of California, by all means... go for it, dude!




Has a funnier post ever been posted? 'nuff said...lol





"Neither of you knows the first thing about California, we're just an easy target because we're more tolerant than many other states."


Ooops... no comment...lol lol..



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Monday, March 14, 2011 1:51 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


As to California: Yes, we have high unemployment, but according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, both Nevada and Michigan have us beat by a lot. When it comes to foreclosures, we are way behind man states, Nevada and Florida having the lead. http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/gapmap/index.htm

As for deficits, as of 2010, both Alaska and Oregon had us beat. http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&langu
ageId=1&contentId=15158


The Worst State for Individual Taxes is Maryland. http://blog.bestandworststates.com/2009/02/24/best-and-worst-states-fo
r-individual-taxes-maryland-worst-6-states-best.aspx


Yeah, we’ve got the worst deficit right now, partly due to the poor handling by The Govenator. Let’s see if Moonbeam improves on that. We’re also a rich state, which skews the numbers comparative to other states, so we’ll just have to wait and see.

We rank 8th in top 10 wealthiest states in America in 2009 (can't find more recent).

We’ve been first in many, many things, innovation is big here (as is our per capita number of lawyers, unfortunately). I could list all the things you take for granted which came from here and you’d be very surprised.

And yes, Mike the fact we've both had Republican governors has nothing to do with it, I'm sure...

I see by your responses that you've got nothing. Pretty normal. So I'll give you a second chance: tell me specifically which REAL things give you the excuse to hate us? Otherwise, I accept your ignorance and will go on from here. We don't mind being the goat, by the way; it's a mark of honor for us that so many people have so many misconceptions about California...hopefully, it keeps types like you OUT!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Monday, March 14, 2011 3:01 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I do agree that this situation has brought attention to unions in general, we'll see what happens, Walker certainly isn't my hero.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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