REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Giffords tragedy could be a defining moment for Palin

POSTED BY: THEHAPPYTRADER
UPDATED: Monday, January 10, 2011 15:15
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Monday, January 10, 2011 9:49 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

Within an hour of Saturday's tragic shooting in Arizona, the Twittersphere had quickly seized on a map put out by Sarah Palin's political action committee last year that had gun-sight images over the congressional districts of House Democrats she wanted to win for the GOP in 2010.

Among her targets: Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona, who was critically wounded by a gunman Saturday. His motives, authorities say, are not fully known. But friends of the suspect, Jared Loughner, have suggested that he had held a grudge for at least three years against Giffords dating back to when he met her in 2007.

Still, some believe that incendiary rhetoric like Palin's bears some responsibility in the tragedy. Giffords herself had previously raised concerns about Palin's map: "The way that she has it depicted has the cross hairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they have got to realize there are consequences to that action."

On Sunday,the Senate's No. 2 Democrat, Dick Durbin, cited the Palin map as a sign of the "toxic rhetoric" that has come to define national politics in recent years. He said he was not making a direct connection between Palin and the shootings.

Palin offered her condolences after the massacre Saturday in a brief message on Facebook and has said little else of it. But she did email conservative radio host Glenn Beck, who read part of their exchange on the air Monday morning, per Politico's Keach Hagey. "I hate violence," Palin wrote Beck. "I hate war. Our children will not have peace if politicos just capitalize on this to succeed in portraying anyone as inciting terror and violence."

Still, Palin has become a focal point in the debate over heated rhetoric, and her response is likely to be a defining moment in her political career. One informal but telling sign of the potential stakes for Palin: According to Facebook, the top question dominating debate on the site over the weekend was "Is Sarah Palin to blame?"

So far, Palin's team, angry that the former governor is being linked to the shooting, has struggled to contain the controversy. On Saturday, the map citing Giffords was abruptly pulled from the SarahPAC site — even though it remained on Facebook. Rebecca Mansour, a Palin aide, said on Twitter that the map was pulled because it "was no longer relevant" since the 2010 campaign was over.

In a subsequent interview with GOP radio host Tammy Bruce, Mansour defended the map. They weren't gun sights but "surveyor's symbols," Bruce suggested, according to Alaska Dispatch, and Mansour agreed. But that contradicted Palin's own prior characterization of the map's symbol as a "'bullseye' icon."

According to Alaska Dispatch, Mansour said attempts to link Palin to the shooting were "obscene" and "appalling." She said there was "nothing irresponsible about our graphic."

Palin is hardly the first politician to use gun or military imagery in campaigning. As the Palin's supporters on the right noted, even President Obama has used similar metaphors, telling Democratic donors in 2008, "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun." And Palin's former running mate, Arizona GOP Sen. John McCain, had defended Palin's call for followers to "reload" as they rallied to capture Congress. "I've heard all of the language throughout my political career," he said.

But the bigger question is whether Palin will seek to passionately defend her comments and political ground — as she has been known to do during past controversies — or whether she, like other political figures in recent days, will urge her supporters to cool the rhetoric.

As Politico's Jonathan Martin says: "Whether she defends, explains or even responds at all to the intense criticism of her brand of confrontational politics could well determine her trajectory on the national scene — and it's likely to reveal the scope of her ambitions as well."



I figured this topic and thread would be more appropriate for folks to flame each other in. I personally don't see it as her fault. Aggressive campaign rhetoric certainly isn't unique to Palin and the tea party. Jared Lee Loughner made the decision fire at those people, possibly with a little help, but I doubt that help came directly from Sarah Palin.

They're saying that Loughner might have been mentally unstable, and that's certainly worth a lot of consideration, but even if he was influenced by aggressive political speak and imagery, does that make Palin responsible for a mentally unstable persons misinterpretations and decision to murder?

I'm not a big fan of Palin, her image is all over the place making any conservative, or conservative leaning folk look bad. Still, I think people are only blaming Palin because it's convenient and they want to blame Palin. We've seen this same kind of behavior directed at Obama, but then he's president, and no one is ever happy with he president.

I agree with the last statement in the article in that "it's likely to reveal the scope of her ambitions as well." I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't have any real political ambitions. She's got all this camera time and her own realty show out of not even being governor.

Only time will tell, but for now... conjecture, arguments, vitriol go!


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Monday, January 10, 2011 12:50 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
From the article: As Politico's Jonathan Martin says: "Whether she defends, explains or even responds at all to the intense criticism of her brand of confrontational politics could well determine her trajectory on the national scene — and it's likely to reveal the scope of her ambitions as well."

...does that make Palin responsible for a mentally unstable persons misinterpretations and decision to murder?



I have taken the liberty to write my fantasy speech for her. I think if she gives it (or something to this effect), it would make me respect her more and see her as a leader instead of a clown.

Quote:

What I am about to say will neither be easy nor popular. I may very well lose my support base. But it is the right thing to do.

When 9/11 happened, our country was united. Americans were traveling across the country, helping other Americans. We put aside our ideas and focused on our actions. We focused on healing from our tremendous, gaping wound.

It is very unfortunate that it should take another tragedy to help us see it is time for healing again. Our economy is struggling. Our state budgets are floundering. Our young men and women are sacrificing themselves overseas. Everything from police departments to health care costs to public schools needs desperate attention. We are deeply wounded.

But instead of pulling together to heal ourselves, we have been pointing fingers and blaming each other. We have been so passionately indignant that we stopped seeing the good in each other, our fellow Americans. We have descended into venomous outrage and escalated political conflicts for the sake of winning, not for the sake of solving problems.

I know, because I was out there throwing stones with the best of them. If I could take back that map with the bullseye marks, I would. I would take it back in a heartbeat. I don't have words to express how deeply I regret my participation in the vitriol.

I did not realize this until Representative Giffords was shot by a very disturbed young man. Whether he was influenced by my map or rhetoric, I may never know. What I do know is, I am a public figure. I should have known better than to behave like a schoolyard bully, adding fuel to a climate of hatred and violence, when I should have done the opposite. I failed in my civic responsibility to use my public voice for good instead of evil. I know that sounds corny, but there it is.

If I were a real leader, a good leader, I should have set an example of reconciliation and solution. Put the needs of the country above my own political ideology. I had an opportunity to help calm down those who don't know other alternatives than violence, and I squandered it.

To the victims and the families of the victims of Sunday's shooting, I want to say I am so sorry. I am sorry for the part I played in creating tension and hopelessness when I should have been creating alliances and hope. I am sorry I divided when I should have united. I am sorry I damaged when I should have healed.

To my colleagues I say this. It is time to stop being angry. As hard as it is, it is time to forgive and talk about what we can do together rather than what we can do if only the other people weren't there. This may be self-serving, because one of the first people I hope you will forgive is me.

Let's remember those days when we pulled together after 9/11, and make them happen again. I know we can.



Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Monday, January 10, 2011 1:19 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I don't blame Palin...at least any more than I do any of those who have used inflammatory rhetoric in the recent past. I pretty much spread the blame for whatever MIGHT happen (given we don't know if this guy's violence had anything to do with political ideology). We've heard so MANY of these things, by and large from the right, that it would be lovely if they just took it down a notch. Just leave out the calls to violence, that's all. Hopefully much of it may be over anyway, for the same reason they SAY it was taken down by Palin (the election being over), but I fear it will start right up again when 2012 gets going.

Remember this one?
Quote:

A day after two Virginia Tea Party activists posted the address of the brother of a congressman who voted for the bill, authorities discovered that someone had severed a gas line at the man's home.

Coleman, upon learning he had posted the wrong address, said on a blog: "Do you mean I posted his brother's address on my Facebook? Oh well, collateral damage."



People in public office always receive death threats; it seems a certain portion of the population are quite happy to threaten someone’s life on the slightest of provocations. It happens to probably most people in the public eye. Still, it has seemed to ME that it’s happening more on the right.
Quote:

Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.) received death threats and Rules Committee Chairwoman Louise Slaughter (D-N.Y.) received a message saying snipers were being deployed to kill children of those who voted for health care overhaul.
Quote:

Windows have been smashed at Democratic offices in at least three states. Rep. Anthony Weiner, D-New York, confirmed Thursday that his district office in Queens received an envelope containing white powder and a threatening letter. He’s also received anti-Semitic notes, including swastikas.
Quote:

House Democratic Majority Whip James Clyburn, who is African-American, said he has received a fax in his office with a picture of a noose drawn on it and had threatening telephone calls at his home.
Glass doors destroyed by brick at the Monroe County Democratic Committee in Rochester, N.Y

To Rep. Bart Stupak: "You’re dead; we know where you live; we’ll get you."

Rep. Dennis Cardoza receives physical threats

Chairman of the North Dakota Republican Party read Pomeroy’s cell phone number aloud on the stage

Blogger suggests bringing back "tarring and feathering"

Rep. Grayson's 5-year-old was threatened.

Remember the plane crashing into the IRS? One IRS worker died. Right-wingers and Tea Partiers applauded Stack's actions.

There’s the story of road rage on a man and his 10-year-old daughter, sparked by an Obama/Biden bumpersticker: http://www.wkrn.com/global/story.asp?s=12208009

Letter to Rep. Vic Snyder (D-AR): "It is apparent that it will take a few assassinations to stop Obamacare. Militia central has selected you for assassination. If we cannot stalk and find you in Washington, D.C., we will get you in Little Rock."

Rep. Harry Mitchell, D-Ariz. receives death threats: "I wish a panty bomber would come in and just f*&king blow your place up."

Sens. Amy Klobuchar and Al Franken and Reps. Keith Ellison and Betty McCollum, all Minnesota Democrats, received a one-page letter accompanied by shreds of an American flag that smelled of gasoline, officials with the offices said. The accompanying letter read “I will fight you with all my might. I will hound you. I will intimidate you and your family. ... I will physically out strong-arm you."

Remember the woman who got knocked down and had her head stepped on?

Now, a similar list can easily be compiled of threats against Republicans. But in my opinion, it is the escalation of the rhetoric by those in power which adds to the anger of people and makes them feel it’s acceptable to do these things, on either side. And the most rhetoric by politicians calling for or mentioning violence HAS come from the right, as far as I can see. THEY are the ones I hold to account, because nutjobs focus on these things and see them as a call to arms:

“Gather your armies” from that election commercial.

Sharon Angle: "I'm hoping we are not getting to the point of second amendment remedies" and "take-out Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV)"

Palin’s cross-hairs and statements and her call to conservatives to "reload," not retreat, and “take aim” at those in the crosshairs..
Quote:

This afternoon on the Senate floor, Senator John Cornyn gave an astounding account of the recent spate of violence against judges, suggesting that the crimes could be attributed to the fact that judges are "unaccountable" to the public.
Quote:

SENATOR JOHN CORNYN: "I don't know if there is a cause-and-effect connection but we have seen some recent episodes of courthouse violence in this country. Certainly nothing new, but we seem to have run through a spate of courthouse violence recently that's been on the news and I wonder whether there may be some connection between the perception in some quarters on some occasions where judges are making political decisions yet are unaccountable to the public, that it builds up and builds up and builds up to the point where some people engage in - engage in violence." [Senate Floor, 4/4/05]
As the New York Times editorially opines today, "when a second important Republican stands up and excuses murderous violence against judges as an understandable reaction to their decisions, then it is time to get really scared."



Rep. Michael McCaul (R-TX): They fought against tyranny and oppressive taxes, do that sound familiar? We’re continuing that revolution right here in Austin, Texas today. Thomas Jefferson said the Tree of Liberty will be fed by the blood of tyrants and patriots. You are the modern day patriots. [...]

Michelle Bachman: “I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back.”

Rep. Steve King (R-IA): “Let’s beat that other side to a pulp. Let’s take them out, let’s chase them down.”

Stephen Broden, a pastor who is seeking to unseat Democratic Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson in Texas's 30th District, told an interviewer on WFAA-TV in Dallas. "Our nation was founded on violence. The option is on the table. I don't think that we should ever remove anything from the table as it relates to our liberties and our freedoms." He clarified that armed revolution is "not the first option."

Remember this one?
Quote:

As lawmakers debated their way to a vote on the legislation, dozens of GOP lawmakers walked from the chamber, crossed the Speaker's Lobby, stepped out onto the members-only House balcony -- and proceeded to incite an unruly crowd.

Thousands of conservative "tea party" activists had massed on the south side of the Capitol, pushing to within about 50 feet of the building. Some Democrats worried aloud about the risk of violence, and police tried to keep the crowd away from the building.

But rather than calm the demonstrators, Republican congressmen whipped the masses into a frenzy.



And on and on.

Nothing will change; this will die down and those who use inflammatory rhetoric will continue, nobody can stop them and they have no desire to stop, as it riles up their base and they profit from it politically.
Quote:

In a town where politics never rests, the shooting of U.S. congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords quickly opened a sharp divide on the role of inflamed rhetoric in the assault and on the proper response to its growth.

The Arizona attack ignited a flood of finger-pointing and pontificating on the sometimes overheated state of U.S. political discourse, even as politicians largely vowed at least a temporary halt to the battle of words in Washington.

No, I don't blame Palin exclusively, essentially she's just following the "fashion" of the times.
But, while there are no doubt many instances of threats and vandalism perpetrated on Republicans, I don’t think you can find the equal of the above statements BY AUTHORITY FIGURES on the left. I sure haven’t heard nearly as many.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Monday, January 10, 2011 1:44 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

"I hate war. Our children will not have peace if politicos just capitalize on this to succeed in portraying anyone as inciting terror and violence."


I don't... Okay. I think Sarah Palin is a very savvy woman. Sarah, we get that, you don't have to keep playing that card. I really don't think this was the time to make a political point and just. Just. I give up.

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Monday, January 10, 2011 1:50 PM

KANEMAN


"I don't blame Palin...at least any more than I do any of those who have used inflammatory rhetoric in the recent past"


Like who? Olbermann, maddow, obama, or shultz? You are a trip.

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Monday, January 10, 2011 3:02 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

This is probably the closest thing we’ll get to hear from Sarah Palin this soon on this weekend’s unfortunate events. Glenn Beck reads part of an email from Sarah Palin to him. Here is how she replied to him (according to Beck):
Quote:

I hate violence. I hate war. Our children will not have peace if politicos just capitalize on this to succeed in portraying anyone as inciting terror and violence. Thanks for all you do to send the message of truth and love and God as the answer. -Sarah

Quote:

Until Monday Palin stayed out of the political conversation over the shooting, referencing the attack only in a short Facebook post offering condolences. That post has garnered almost 10,000 comments. On Sunday, Facebook marketing director Randi Zuckerberg said the top question on the site that day was "Is Sarah Palin to blame?" However, Palin's staff was reacting. Her Web site featuring a map showing Giffords in crosshairs was taken off the internet. Aide Rebecca Mansour went on the radio to defend that campaign, arguing that the crosshairs were "surveyor's symbols."
Hoooo...kay. Just surveyor's symbols, eh? Doesn't quite go along with her words on the subject..."her call to conservatives to "reload," not retreat, and “take aim” at those in the crosshairs.." Crosshairs; get it?

Liar, liar, pants on fire...

Sorry; for her to write that to Beck, to me, spells H Y P O C R I S Y.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Monday, January 10, 2011 3:15 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


And C O W A R D I C E.

It's so effin' cowardly and juvenile - it wasn't meeeeee, I didn't say that, they did it ...

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