REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Two First Amendment Cases. Opinions?

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Monday, April 19, 2010 15:56
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:39 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

On April 19, 2010, the U.S. Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in Christian Legal Society v. Martinez, a case that will determine whether a public institution can refuse official recognition to a religiously-based organization that prevents those who do not share its religious and moral values from becoming voting members. The case arose in 2004 when a chapter of the Christian Legal Society (CLS) expressed a desire to register as an official student group at the University of California's Hastings College of Law. Groups that are officially recognized by the school enjoy certain privileges, including public funding. But CLS requirements effectively bar non-Christians and non-celibate gays and lesbians from becoming voting members or assuming leadership positions, which is in direct conflict with the law school's non-discrimination policy. After six years of litigation in lower courts, the case is now before the Supreme Court. In the folowing publication, David Masci, a senior researcher for the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, answers questions about the case and explains how the high court's decision could affect the rules governing a wide array of groups that accept government funding.

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1550/christian-legal-society-vs-martinez-r
eligion-government-funding

Quote:

LARAMIE, Wyo. -- Bill Ayers and a University of Wyoming student are suing the school after it banned the former 1960s radical from speaking on campus.

Ayers, a professor at the University of Illinois-Chicago, makes college speeches and is routinely picketed, but the University of Wyoming last week banned him from using any
university venue for a planned April 28 lecture.
Ayers and student Meg Lanker are asking a federal judge to issue an injunction and allow the lecture. The lawsuit alleges the ban violates free speech rights and the freedom to
assemble.

A university spokeswoman declined to comment on the suit.

Lanker told the Casper Star-Tribune that Ayers will speak at the Laramie Civic Center if he's not allowed on campus.


http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/04/ayers-sues-after-banned-fro
m-speaking-at-wyoming-university.html



"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, April 18, 2010 5:26 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

LARAMIE, Wyo. -- Bill Ayers and a University of Wyoming student are suing the school after it banned the former 1960s radical from speaking on campus.


Yes, I say let all terrorist bombers be paid to speak on campus. Especially when they bomb bomb bomb the Pentagon.

Quote:



"I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough. Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that's where it's really at. Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon.''
-Professor Bill Ayers, FBI/CIA employee and confessed bomber of NYPD HQ, US Capitol, NY Supreme Court, bombed and killed two female bombers in his house, busted CIA LSD mind-control agent Timothy Leary out of prison, confessed to 12 bombings in Operation Northwoods but never prosecuted, author of Barack Hussien Obama Sotoro's authorized biography and grant recipient of Obama's Annenberg Foundation


Bill Ayers, Professor of Education, University of Illinois at Chicago
youtube.com/watch?v=DDyDtYy2I0M
www.deliberatedumbingdown.com

"As the most recent National Security Advisor of the United States, I take my daily orders from Dr. Kissinger, filtered down through General Brent Scowcroft and Sandy Berger, who is also here. We have a chain of command in the National Security Council that exists today."
-Major General James Jones, Obama's National Security Advisor
www.examiner.com/x-4285-Salt-Lake-Nonpartisan-Examiner~y2009m3d23-Nati
onal-Security-Advisor-takes-orders-from-Henry-Kissinger


"Soldiers are dumb animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy. The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer. Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."
-Sir Heinz "Henry" Kissinger Kosher Knight of the British Empire




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Monday, April 19, 2010 4:35 AM

BYTEMITE


1st case: wonderful display of social tolerance and christian friendliness, these folks.

But even though I hope this ridiculous and moronic rule causes their organization to hemorrhage members and pledges until they come to their senses, I think they have the right to make such an organization and assemble. After all, from the article it sounds like there are a number of alternative organizations non-Christians and L/G/B/Ts could join to get that votes in. Don't really understand why non-Christians or gays would even WANT to join a Christian group full of intolerant pricks. The only thing that would matter here is if 1) they are inflicting or promoting violence 2) harassing or promoting harassment of the target group, 3) they are campaigning to receive preferential treatment, 4) they ARE receiving preferential treatment, or 5) they are sabotaging efforts and opportunities for the target groups.

On the other hand, it's very likely that non-Christians and the LGBT community endure a number of forms of harassment and denial, and even simple exclusion from a club, or even the formation of a club for people who dislike them, may feel like yet another weight on their shoulders pushing them down. These sort of exclusionary practices might also result in real world fiscal damage, or here, an attempt perhaps to drown out their voice in a democratic process.

What I'd do is maybe give the organization a trial run. The best compromise would be to let the club exist at the school, but not grant it official recognition or funding. Whether or not the Christian group LIKES that option depends on if the organization is just a religious expression thing, or if it's a power/control thing. If they're happy to just have a bible study group, then by all means. Otherwise, screw it, their cries about religious oppression are just a cover for their bullshit oppression of other groups which in my view is not a valid reason for an organization and which violates first amendment rights its own self. It's all about intent, you see. And who doesn't like a bake sale, eh?

2nd case: I don't know anything about Ayer, but I do know that I don't think anything, not federal government and not even social justice and imprisonment should be allowed to take away first amendment rights. If people are willing to pay his retainer costs and he wants to speak, I don't see how any of us has any place to intervene.

PN: Don't know if any of that's true. If it is, then I hate that they're asking this guy to come in and brainwash college students. Unfortunately, if we try to deny them the same rights we fight for to stand up and speak our piece, we're no better than them.

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Monday, April 19, 2010 6:12 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:

PN: Don't know if any of that's true. If it is, then I hate that they're asking this guy to come in and brainwash college students. Unfortunately, if we try to deny them the same rights we fight for to stand up and speak our piece, we're no better than them.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground_(organization)

http://obama.wikia.com/wiki/Bill_Ayers_election_controversy








http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6078589535743610981#



Weather Underground was Pentagon & CIA's Operation Northwoods false-flag self-inflicted covert terror bombing psyops to demonize the Vietnam antiwar movement in USA
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1


"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
-Famous Old Dead Guy

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Monday, April 19, 2010 3:56 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Byte, the short version of it, despite PN's ranting here, and endless propaganda and distortion by the powers that be and their media engines, is thus.

The Weathermen were a political organisation of a semi-socialist bent, influenced by the Anarchist concept known as Propaganda of the Deed - only they chose to attempt this in a fashion intended on wrecking the physical machinery of empire without harming people, something prettymuch doomed to failure because fools willing to take their orders *is* the machinery of empire - and as such started blowing shit up...

They realized fairly quickly, as the Anarchists before them had, that trying to do things that way doesn't really work, in practice the idea fails because not only do such orgs always wind up blowing up more of their own people than anything else, it creates a massive backlash, wrecks any public support, and in the grand scheme of things, has no real impact on the powers that be beyond giving them an excuse - handing them a reichstag fire to do with as they please.

And with Vietnam and the related abuses starting to wind down, the group probably would have fragmented were it not for a concurrent operation by an unknown group known as "The Citizens' Commission to Investigate the FBI" resulting in the exposure of COINTELPRO and leading to the Pike and Church Committee investigations, which showed that despite all the lies and denials, the Government really *WAS* guilty of everything The Weathermen were accusing them of, and worse.

By 1978 the organisation didn't exist save in name only, and that only via federal plants holding it up to keep the scare factor going, kinda like they do these days with "terrorism", basically cooking up bullshit "plots" out of whole cloth to give the alphabet goons an excuse to exist - some of the former weathermen were stringing them along, feeding them disinformation in hopes of monkeywrenching COINTELPRO, which despite all efforts to shut it down, and all the protestations and lies, still trundles on to this very day, and this blew up in their faces towards the end, leading to the final dissolution of the group when the feds decided to make a case out of the disinformation in combination with some puffery from their plants, and arrested them.

The case didn't really hold any water, and they let em off easy rather than reveal that COINTELPRO was still in full swing and risk further provoking the Church Committee members and that was pretty much the end of it.

I never did think much of em, Ayers in particular, still don't - but one of the points he's making to these kids is just how counterproductive blowing shit up really *is*, and from a perspective of someone who actually tried it, and because of that, and it's cooling effect on that kind of stupidity, I don't have so much a problem with the guy - he learned a vital lesson and is willing to impart it to folks who might be thinkin about repeating the same damn fool mistake, which is a positive thing even if the guy isn't really all that noble an example, cause he has the credibility of having been down at that end of things personally.

The thing that gets glossed over when folks get to flaming him though, is that they were absolutely correct, the Government was engaged in far worse terrorism than they were, and this was proven beyond an ounce of reasonable doubt.

So if folks wanna bitch about Ayers speechifying cause he's such a "terrorist" - what about members of the Government that did far worse, lied about it, got caught, promised to stop, and kept right on doing it ?

Who's the real terrorists then ?

-Frem

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