American Dictator by dreamtrove

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

American Dictator

POSTED BY: DREAMTROVE
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 4, 2009 11:48
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Monday, November 2, 2009 7:14 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8336910.stm

Clinton Statue with stand taller than Saddam's, stands in front of Clinton face larger than Mao's.

Watch Bill Clinton react with a "who? Me? Oh how thoughtful" faux surprise that is all too familiar. Kosovar muslims applauded, the serbs did not on account of being dead (there are actually two extant serb settlements, but they are in isolated areas and can't travel in the rest of the country, but I digress.)

I think Gino was more on target in his recent post than most conservatives. The real enemy here is Clinton. Obama said that Karzai couldn't take the oath of office for another term because he wasn't elected. Then Hillary said he could, and then Obama said something about welcoming a new term of Karzai. I think we know who's pulling the strings.

I wonder too about the Clinton-Bush interconnection if there ever was a Bush administration. I can't recall George W. Bush ever making a single executive decision. Sure, Darth Cheney was ordering from his Dr. No lair like a err... madman, but then Cheney was one of the more powerful people of the Clinton admin.

I'm not defending the republican party, I'm doubting the existence of the of the republican party, at least as anything other than a puppet cartoon boogeyman for people to be "Oh, you saved us from those mean nasty republicans, just like you saved us from Al Qaeda and the Taliban."

And, the whole Orwellian thing to the end, who really is Big Brother. Maybe it's the guy with the 30 foot statue surrounded by his admirers, not mentioning "oh, I killed millions of muslims, but not nearly as many muslims as I killed christians, so I must be on your side... (add superficial smile)" *crowd goes wild*.

While I'm at it, a question for Matt Groenig. Just if anyone didn't notice during the Clinton years, after the senseless slaughter, he still found room under the desk to give Monica a hand... I mean, really, what gives? It was like the whole Liebermangasm over Bush. Our psychopathic leaders are in some sort of love affair, and the media with them.

I made a mental note some time ago of "Okay, if there's ever a giant statue of a current american leader, be afraid. I'll admit I was worried when the audacity of arrogance showed up with the Obama presiential seal, and then the Obama Parthenon where IIRC he replaced Zeus... but now the whole thing has gotten way out of hand.

And *please* can we skip the partian bickering and get right to the issue here straight? Y'all do remember that I tore Bush a new one daily, so it's not a case of "this is a democrat, he's a target" and after that nonsense up in Watertown, NY, which I was in at the time, I've really lost any faith in the GOP as being anything but a total tool.

It's easy to poke fun at Bill Clinton's ego and his whole Saddam Husseinness, and sure, there's room for "How'd a scultptor get him to keep his pants up that long?" But there's also a serious side to this one: Bill Clinton in the former yugoslavia shouldn't be wallowing in self-adulation but facing war crimes for at the very least killing 100,000 civilians in order to capture a strip of land for Cheney's halliburton pipeline, which is not conspiracy theory, it's a fact which our govt. has already admitted to.

Is america a dictatorship? Are we a rogue state? A failed democracy? Any or all of the above? (A breeding ground for terrorism? An unstable third world nuclear threat?) Taking the whole last 20-30 years and particularly the last 15, how far have we slid, and what are we now? Are we an evil empire? And if so, what the hell, if anything, can we do about it?

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Monday, November 2, 2009 7:52 AM

JONGSSTRAW

I think they captured his essense. Any way you turn, his eyes seem to follow you.

Mudder's guitar plays ....

He bombed the country for 3 months straight
Stood up to the Serbs, but Bin Laden had to wait
His lies and sexcapades, we all had our fill
The hero of Kosovo, the man they call Bill

Now here is what separates Bill Clinton
From most past Presidents and men of the USA
The man they call Bill, well he cried and apologized to Hill
So they could move past the whole stained blue dress fray

He bombed the country for 3 months straight
Stood up to the Serbs, but Bin Laden had to wait
His lies and sexcapades, we all had our fill
The hero of Kosovo, the man they call Bill

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Monday, November 2, 2009 8:33 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Again, I don't see it as extremely as you do. Our history is filled with lots of incarnations of potential dictators--not one has made it. Sure, times are different, but I think I'd have had to live through many more administrations to see if things were handled THAT differently in the past.

I feel Dumbya brought us closer to dictatorship than Clinton ever did. And I don't see Cheney as the man behind the man being manipulated by Clinton; that's too close to conspiracy theory for me. I also don't hold the view of the Clintons that some do; Kennedys and Bushes were every bit as manipulative and "monarchistic" in their "reigns".

I think Cheney's become a sad shadow of his former self, reduced to smacking the table with his shoe, if you will. I don't see the Clintons as all-powerful as you do...if anything, I see more Jimmy Carterism in Obama; I think he's stuck with a situation he doesn't know how to get out of, and whatever his motivation, I don't view him as wanting to make things WORSE, just not knowing how or having the power accomplish anything. NOT to say I think his motivations are necessarily all good, just I don't think they're that bad.

If you're going to judge things by a statue, what about Lincoln? Couldn't be a much BIGGER statute, so what does that mean? I know there are statues of others, not all Presidents, but I don't take that as dire a sign as you do.

If the Clintons are the power you think, then why didn't they get Hillary elected? It wouldn't have been hard, if you give them the power you see them as having, to defeat Obama, and Hillary was so close to winning that I have no doubt they could have swung it if they really wanted to. Much easier that way.

Also, if you look at Obama's background, he's not exactly a follower who I would see as taking orders from the Clintons; he's a pretty strong personality, just in my opinion not a very powerful or savvy person to get what he wants done.

As to Karzai, what are the alternatives? Just like in Iran; if we want to have dealings with the heads of countries, there have to be HEADS of countries; if we want to continue operating in Afghanistan, we need to keep the figurehead going, even if we don't like him. We've done it before. It's politics.

The Bush administration WAS an administration. If there were forces at work behind them, how would so many inept people have been put in positions of power by Bush? As to the Republican party, I would actually doubt the existence of the DEMOCRATIC party if I was going to doubt anything; this country is more conservative than liberal and the Republicans are far more powerful in getting their people to fall in line than the dems have ever been! They also play dirtier; Dems are too inept at growing a pair, and the saying is true, that they snatch defeat from the jaws of victory far too often.

I don't love the Dems and am not defending them, I just think both parties are, if anything, puppets of something NON-governmental, not the figures we see as powerful on the face.

As to Monica, ach, you're giving Clinton too much credit. Robin Williams was right in that God gave men a penis and a brain, but only enough blood to use one at a time. Politicians of all types have managed to self-destruct nicely when it comes to sex, that's just "men".

As to what we are, I see us as a "fading empire" more than anything else. Our empire may not have "conquered" by force (except in some instances), but did so by finance, and it's slipping away before our eyes. Another power will replace us in time, it's the way of history.

Just my humble opinion.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Monday, November 2, 2009 8:37 AM

DREAMTROVE

"I've lived in Hope, AR for half a century, and I've never seen Bill Clinton" - Mike Huckabee.

Huck was commenting on how Bill, of Little Rock, was born in Hope, but had never been there, but using "Hope and Change" promising a "New Deal" and all was what every democrat had run on his entire life.

I think we need evilopedia, where only enemies can write

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Monday, November 2, 2009 9:05 AM

JONGSSTRAW

We had 8 great years under the Clintons. It's all gone downhill since.

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Monday, November 2, 2009 3:45 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Hey, at least the recession's over!

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!

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Monday, November 2, 2009 5:37 PM

KWICKO

So when do Bush and his cronies start passing around the collection plate to swap heads on that statue of Saddam in the middle of Baghdad? I'll bet if they really tried, they could raise as much as twelve dollars!

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!

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Monday, November 2, 2009 5:38 PM

COELABELLATORE

Don't worry about it. Your life is still better than that of the other 6 billion people on the planet. Enjoy running water, and refrigerated fruit.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm a nomadic diplomat of violence. A man temporary suspended in a state of insanity; riding a ship of crazy into the burning sunset of geopolitical failure. I walk tall until I'm trying to bury myself 3 inches deeper into the dirt because someone's gotten it into their heads that they want to put a Kalashnikov bullet in my face. I'm the new face of American progress moonlighting as the new face of American digression. I'm an American Soldier.

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Monday, November 2, 2009 5:49 PM

DREAMTROVE

Jong,

I'm not even sure what planet you're living on. Rwanda, Yugoslavia, world war chaos, genocide in Iran, America old off in pieces, systematic deregulation of the antitrust, the ponzi setup of a marketing scheme that would allow the banks to take over the country completely, and virtually everything that Bush, the next pawn, would do, only without as much media coverage.

I mean, you could fill a presidential library with his crimes, a book with his pre-office crimes, but I'll start with this one: The man killed 10 million people. That's impressive for a US president. The nation was at war every single year he was in office, yet I hear liberals refer to it as "Eight years of peace," (this is the sort of comment that makes me doubt colbert really thinks before he talks.) Just try telling that to someone in africa, the middle east or eastern europe.

And no, this is not a partisan position. Pick the most lefty candidate you have. Kucinich? Chomsky? Conyers? whoever you put forward, I'll probably gladly take them if it gets us rid of the clintons.

Niki,

Clinton doesn't manipulate cheney, they're part of the same possey. Clintons look out for Clintons, and their gang of clintonistas. If they have allies, they can manipulate any govt., but cheney is a neutral. He was more than happy to destroy the GOP, he never had an alliegance anyway. Now he's taken the role of Osama Bin Laden, he's a boogeyman.

But you're missing the point. Lincoln was long dead. Here's the scary part: Clinton isn't just alive, he's in power. Obama's economic team? all clintonistas. Almost his entire cabinet. Even his close friend Rahm is a hitman of the Clintons. Bill Clinton is elevating himself to "national leader" like an american Vlad Putin or Tony Blair. We have these "superleaders" now who are higher than elected officials. Every single time Obama takes a stance or makes a nomination, and a Clinton disagrees? Clintons win.

The alternative is to think that Obama was always a Clintonista, and the election was a sham of false dichotomy and duplicity, and I'm not quite that cynical... yet.

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Monday, November 2, 2009 7:59 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

We'll have to agree to disagree I'm afraid. I don't see things at all the way you do--tho' nor do I see them as Jong does. I live more in the greys I'm afraid, so we'll just have to disagree.

For one small thing, I don't see either Hillary or Obama as being the kind of people who would be under the sway of Bill. They're both too strong-willed and independent. For another, I say again, if Clinton wanted power, and had as much power to manipulate things as you theorize, I don't see why he would let Obama get elected rather than Hillary. It doesn't make sense. Another thing; I don't buy

Quote:
If they have allies, they can manipulate any govt

I think it's more complex than that, and the idea of Cheney as a neutral ANYTHING leaves my jaw dropped. I see Cheney as believing very fervently what he believes, and nothing neutral about him.

So I'll just let it go; you're certainly entitled to your view, I just disagree with it.

Coela, right on; that's a truth I agree with 100%. Sadly.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 2:21 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Jong,

I'm not even sure what planet you're living on. Rwanda, Yugoslavia, world war chaos, genocide in Iran, America old off in pieces, systematic deregulation of the antitrust, the ponzi setup of a marketing scheme that would allow the banks to take over the country completely, and virtually everything that Bush, the next pawn, would do, only without as much media coverage.

I mean, you could fill a presidential library with his crimes, a book with his pre-office crimes, but I'll start with this one: The man killed 10 million people. That's impressive for a US president. The nation was at war every single year he was in office, yet I hear liberals refer to it as "Eight years of peace," (this is the sort of comment that makes me doubt colbert really thinks before he talks.) Just try telling that to someone in africa, the middle east or eastern europe.

And no, this is not a partisan position. Pick the most lefty candidate you have. Kucinich? Chomsky? Conyers? whoever you put forward, I'll probably gladly take them if it gets us rid of the clintons.

Dream....I'm from Earth. I guess you're from Planet Of The Clinton-Hating Revisionists because all those things you attached to his name are falsely applied, or had no impact on me or the average American....

Rwanda - What the hell was he supposed to do anyway? Send in troops? Support who? Tribal/ethnic violence in Africa really not his mandate.

Yugoslavia - again he should have done what? I think he played it perfectly. American support for the defenseless, yet keep our troops out of it. The stategy worked, and peace came to the region.

World War chaos? - Really, 'cause even my son's brand new history book only goes up to WWII. Please write to the publishers about WWIII so they can catch up on things.

Genocide in Iran? - I must have missed that, or really not given a crap. I think I started taking pilates classes that week. What genocide you talkin' 'bout Willis?

10 million dead? - Clinton must be a helllava shot. More hyperbolized bs methinks.

US at war for 8 years under Clinton? - Another event I must have slept through, unless you actually mean his successor Bush.

He signed legislation that balanced the budget for the first time in decades. He signed legislation that reformed Welfare. He signed legislation to protect traditional marraige. Hell, he was the best damn Republican, I mean Democrat President we had in my lifetime.

The only real mistake I can attribute to Bill was his waffling on the Gays in the military thing. If people want to serve the country they ought to be able to regardless their sexual leanings. As I see it, our military should be ALL Gay! They represent everything the military seeks from our soldiers and sailors : clean, neat, organized, strong, committed, brave, smart, and hard-working. The motto should have been "We're Gay, We blow our enemies away."

One can clearly see that Clinton was indeed a great President, and his 8 years shine far above any of his contemporaries.

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 5:08 AM

DREAMTROVE

Jong,

Sorry, iraq, not iran, my error. This is not worth the time to argue, but there's no conspiracy theory or revision.

Start reading people who disagree with you.. It's the only way to get informed. It's what I did, and the reason I'm not in lock step with anyone. I read everything from al jazeera to the jerusalem post. All of this and much more was news from very credible sources, just not heavily covered. Even the NYT reported Clinton's secret torture prisons. On page 38

Look up the Rwanda Veto, gun running operations, the iraq embargo, learn your Clinton, cause he's one evil motherfucker, and that's personal, not political. Yeah, I would say Cheney is an evil mofo as well, but they're evil together. And yes, lots of republicans didn't realize that Bush was evil. This wasn't because they were stupid, it was because the listened to FOX news and didn't read the nation, or even crooks and liars. People aren't comfortable reading positions they disagree with.

I have too much work to do to debate the evils of Clinton, which IMHO, would be like starting out talking to a "new christian" and trying to talk them into the idea that Bush was evil. It would take weeks.

I recommend this though, because I think it's important: If you value Obama or the democratic party, and the ideas for which they stand, then it's a good idea to know your Clintons very well, because they're the ones fucking it up. And yes, I know that some people *personally* know the Clintons, I know a couple of people who do myself, but even if you personally know the Clintons, getting to know them on an underworld level is a good survival instinct.

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Tuesday, November 3, 2009 7:36 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

I think they captured his essense.

Yes, they did.

Jew Bill Clinton Blythe III was bastard son of kosher Arkansas governor Winthrop Rockefeller.
www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS346US346&um=1&q=bill%20cli
nton%20winthrop%20rockefeller&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw&start=0

The kosher Rockefellers armed and fueled Nazi Germany all during World War 2, just like Prescott Bush.
www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS346US346&q=rockefeller+sta
ndard+oil+nazi+germany&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Bill bombed Yugoslavia, just like jew Adolf Hitler Shicklegruber Rothschild bombed Yugoslavia.

So of course a statue of Bill "Clinton" would display a Nazi salute.

http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2007/10/14/protestors-tear-down-vic
ente-fox-statue/

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Wednesday, November 4, 2009 4:16 AM

DREAMTROVE

John,

Again, you have a point here. It greatly disturbed me that Clinton is essentially giving a Nazi salute in the statue, but I dodged the issue because I didn't want to Godwin. Interesting about Fox as well.

ETA:

The point being that the Nazi Genocide against the Serbs was a position that the Kosovars could identify with, as they were also in favor of genocide against Serb, whom they often describe as "soulless" and "evil" and do not consider human, not to say that the same isn't true on both sides, but having met a fair number of each, I can see in spite of Slobodan Milosevic who was definitely soulless and evil, and his militias which remind me of the Sudanese Janjaweed, that another *reason* the Kosovars would idolize Clinton was the degree to which he supported that Nazi position. They also of course admire him for supporting their independence, post ethnic-cleansing of course, an independent Kosovo, free of Serb infection. There is still a Serb minority

Not taking the Serb side, certain not that of Milosevic's Yugoslav Socialist regime, but seeing it objectively, there was a fair amount of evil to go around, and Clinton was part of it. For those who still support him, this is probably third on my list of "ten most nazi things about Clinton."

It does worry me that he is becoming our shadow leader. I think he's not just one of the worst humanitarians to appear on the Earth, but probably downright evil to the core. Bush and Cheney are also pretty close to that, just less accomplished at it.

I have serious problems with Vladimir Putin, but I would not put him down on a level with Bush or Clinton. More dictatorial, but not as evil.

There I go using that word again. Still, it fits.

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Wednesday, November 4, 2009 8:45 AM

KWICKO

You guys DO know your left from your right, don't you?

And I certainly hope neither of you ever waves "hello" to anyone, lest you be unveiled for being "secret Nazis". Okay, with PN it's no secret...

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!

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Wednesday, November 4, 2009 11:48 AM

DREAMTROVE

actually, most people don't nazi salute hello, but that wasn't the point. The Kosovars *chose* that pose (over clinton with his pants down, which admittedly was the only other picture they could find online) But seriously, the last person to exterminate massive number of Serbs and then be worshipped for it by other yugoslavs was someone who was known for a very similar pose.

Sorry mike, this is a no brainer, the sculptors knew what they were doing, they were comparing the Clinton to the Fuhrer, and they thought that comparison was flattering.

I don't know left from right, but I know both of the above world leaders to be left, but not lefties. Obama is a leftie.

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