The psycho rapist freakshow conundrum by Niki2

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The psycho rapist freakshow conundrum

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, September 3, 2009 06:51
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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 3:03 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

The Dugard story asks: How do you make sense of the ugliest abuses of man?
By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist

As a passionately jaded observer of news media and the insane human spectacle it is so painfully wont to wallow in, I find there are always a number of choices when it comes to analyzing something like the horrific Jayee Lee Dugard/Phillip Garrido saga, that sickening kidnapping/rape/confinement tale spanning 18 years, multiple offspring and countless layers of psychological torment often too disgusting and sad to ponder for long without a book of poetry, a puppy and a large glass of Scotch.

Nevertheless, it remains one of the more fascinating and revealing of questions: How do you parse it? What the hell do you do with such bizarre and soul-curdling information? Through what sort of lens do you observe, take in, try to make even a passing hint of sense of such stories? Do you even try?

Maybe you take the easy route. Maybe you, like millions of others, go for the knee-jerk, right-wing reaction and simply say, "Great, another psycho rapist madman. Let's just kill Phillip Garrido right now and be done with it. Or maybe throw him in prison and let him suffer for a while first and then inject him, hang him and zap him with 2,000 volts all at once because he's obviously an unspeakable monster who doesn't deserve another breath on this planet."

Easy, right? It's a hugely typical, mindless, even comfortable sort of all-American pseudo-cowboy response, allowing all sorts of bogus calls for "justice" and retribution while doing absolutely nothing to offer perspective and help you walk down the street with just a little less taste of fear and misanthropy in your mouth. But hey, it's what we do.

Or perhaps you realize the ignorance and small-mindedness of such a perspective, and hence you go a layer or two deeper, attempt to examine such a bizarre spectacle from various socio-psychological angles, try to see how it might fit into the human circus, the Jungian shadow side, the convoluted world in which we live, as you ponder the seemingly endless levels of cruelty the human animal is capable of.

This is where it gets ugly. This is where you start to imagine the worst, the nastiest, the darkest deeds of man, as you begin to tie the Jaycee Lee Dugard story into all the other horrors you've read about over the years, every sort of rape and incest and brutality -- like that recent saga from Austria, the even more horrific tale of Josef Fritzl who raped his own daughter for 24 years and fathered seven children by her and kept most of them locked deep in a homemade suburban dungeon.

But then you get a bit trapped. Because then it becomes all sorts of terribly morbid, horror-movie fun to imagine, in your most cynical fears, that these sociopaths are surely not the only ones, that there are probably thousands more like them who just haven't been caught, living right this minute in all sorts of neighborhoods, maybe even down the street from where you live, maybe right next door, and, gosh, maybe it's more wicked and scary out there than you ever thought possible, and maybe sustained fearful disgust/mistrust really is the best way to endure this horrible little planet. You think?

The unrelenting media coverage, of course, plays right into this perspective, amplifies the fear to such a degree that you think this sort of thing simply must be happening all the time, even if it's completely untrue. Like Internet predators, like porn exploitation, like a hundred other largely bogus cultural terrors that have been exaggerated to the point of undue paranoia, and so we are trained to think the worst. It doesn't really matter if they're often completely fallacious.

Or perhaps you wonder, in your inverse cynicism, why it's always the God zealots, or the right-wing militants, or the gun-loving fanatical loners who seem to be the ones who enact the worst offenses. Isn't there an obvious pattern here?

Why do you never read about, say, that pacifist Buddhist yoga teacher who suddenly snapped and opened fire on a playground? Why is it the worst a hardcore liberal lefty is capable of appears to be, say, hurling a brick through the window of the Nike store, whereas the your average knee-jerk neocon likes to bring his a machine gun to Glenn Beck's Obama-is-a-Nazi pool party?

Again, too easy. Too unsubtle. And completely lacking in the obvious fact that violence and brutality ain't exactly the sole dominion of the religious or the hyperconservative (well, not completely). The potential is, of course, universal. As Joseph Conrad put it, "the bitterest contradictions and the deadliest conflicts of the world are carried on in every individual breast capable of feeling or passion." The real danger lies in denying it.

Or maybe you simply skip over all these options entirely, and choose not to even try and understand any of it at all.

Maybe you saw the Dugard headline itself and said, "No, no way, I am simply not allowing that into my worldview; I refuse to let that kind of poison drip into my daily coffee. There's enough horror and sadness, war and pain, sickness and trauma in the world already without letting some extreme example stab at my spirit." Despite the willful ignorance, this is often the most appealing response of all.

I wish I had the correct answer. I wish I knew which perspective was the healthiest, the safest, the least depressing and spiritually disturbing, while still allowing an examination of the lessons such sagas might hold.

Maybe it has more to do with taking the open-ended view itself, and seeing the Dugard story as simply that: a compelling opportunity to ask yourself how to respond, which perspective holds even a modicum of compassion and humanity. Maybe there is no "right" way to take it all in; there is only a sigh, a shudder, a wincing nod to the demon in us all, and a breathing through.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 4:11 PM

BYTEMITE

Or maybe some people are psychopaths, have delusions of grandeur, and enjoy forcing themselves on other people as a power statement.

My thinking is that people like this are FAR from the normal individual. Even if everyone entertains thoughts about raping their children, or abducting children to rape, they clearly don't do it. And they don't do it, not because of a fear of punishment, but because in most people the thought is as repulsive to the thinker as it is to other people.

Speaking of which, Frem, if you ever see this, I read the story you posted.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 5:53 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Which one, Byte ?

As to the discussion at hand...

Simple - I find out how they GOT that way, what made them into what they are, the factors and influences that created them.

And then "go upstream" (nods to Rue) and make damn sure they'll make no more.

Pretty damn good at it too.

-F

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 6:04 PM

BYTEMITE

The twisted magical girl one.

I feel silly saying that...

I kinda saw the events of the ninth chapter coming, so that didn't really shock me, but I thought the rest of it was a neat concept.

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 6:54 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Oh yes, I realized that only after I had walked out the door - good story, reasonates pretty hard for me, and I am quite fond of General Cobalt, especially when he gets on a verbal roll, cause I SO know what it's like to cat-herd morons.

I got a longish background post for you and Niki in progress, since y'all weren't here for earlier explainations, and some of it's stuff I ain't referred to before, relative to the topic at hand...

But I am currently on a wireless laptop in the middle of site three's park typin this stuff in between walking security rounds - so it's gonna be a while.

-F

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Wednesday, September 2, 2009 7:02 PM

BYTEMITE

I was surprised by how sympathetic I felt for General Cobalt... He didn't care about letting the demons he made have fun, he wanted them to get to work making things in THEIR world not such a shithole. I can respect that.

Didn't see Argon coming, so that was fun, though it became kind of obvious when he opened the way up.

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 12:50 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Ok, where to even start...
(Oh lordy some folk will be gnashing their teeth about it, but I really don't care no more.)

Yah, now, the whole diagnose and medicate bullshit, that's been goin on a lot longer in schools than most folk realize, it just wasn't at the SCALE it is now, cause they had other methods of dealing with square peg problems, too.

One of which was those second-chance schools, which seem to have fallen by the wayside somewhere in there, in favor of worse, but lemme expound on that a little.
See, if you were "potentially useful", you'd get that "second chance" yeah, hah, if we knew then - but we didn't.

It always struck me wrong that they didn't seem to be makin no realistic effort to stop the violence, and in fact it ALMOST seemed they were encouraging it, we did not know at the time that particular second chance system was in part funded by the Army, and overseen by a friggin spook dual-hatter from one of the darker branches thereof.
(Talkin bout YOU, William Archibald Haroth)
Makes it all the more amusingly ironic that we actually tried to assassinate his ass once, and came close enough to really piss him off.

If we weren't so woefully ignorant (deliberately kept so) the name itself would have tipped us off to it's purpose, Phoenix, ha! - rising from the ashes my ass, go find out what Phoenix *DID*, and you'll figure out pretty quick what they wanted somewhat controllable violent psychopaths FOR.
Nothin to it now, the program is for the time being dead as a doornail, apparently they went off the leash in falluah and the brass responded by shelling their area of operations into dust and splinters, sent in the third to finish the job, and no one shed a bitter tear, least of all me - just a couple more dead terrorists ain't no one gonna miss.
Does explain why the cabal needed new hatchetmen (blackwater) too, does it not ?

And yeah, I bit the hook - leastways they thought I did.
No family, no friends, just an endless wellspring of nihilistic hate who wanted nothing more than revenge on humanity itself, a perfect candidate.
And enough of that was true, but in the end, I am my mothers child.
Her tykebomb, her revenge on an unjust society, and what better source of the skills to do it but the very structures that would someday be the victims - what better way to understand them than to BE one of them ?

You know how a cuckoo bird operates, right ?
Lays it's egg in another birds nest, which hatches first, and then pushes the other eggs over the side to eliminate the competition, then milks the host for all it's worth before bailing out.
That very analogy in fact completely outs me, but anyone who'd care enough to do something is pushin up daisies now, as is every other original member of VI so what do I care anymore.

The break came when they wanted some folk to help out in Nicaragua, and we smelled enough of a rat to spring early, plus they bailed out on payin up for college, which pissed us off - I didn't push em out, I co-opted em, remember I went to school with some of these creeps.

And so "VI" was born, Column Six, aka Vengeance Incarnate.
And you bet we had a cause, cause the former's just a side order.

You have to first understand, that back then the hellcamps were "just a myth" and "did not exist" - as much a joke as Catholic altar boys walking funny, everyone knew and nobody much cared.

But WE knew - the official euphemism was "transferred".
What happened to Billy ?
Oh he got transferred.
And Billy's parents would tell you shit, that for a fact.

You have any idea what it's like in an already hostile environment, when folk who don't toe the line start gettin "disappeared" ?
And some of them come back, but so mentally fucked up there's almost nothing left of em but a cheery gung-ho facade over a ticking bomb ?

Kids are way, WAY smarter than most folks ever realize, completely capable of giving you an appropriately glazed, vapid look while droning out the socially acceptable challenge responses like "just say no", "tell a teacher" (*snort*), and whatever the bullshit pop culture catch phrases of the day are, all the while plotting the doom of you and your sick society somewhere behind it.
Heaven knows WE did.

Having cut the chains by jumping the line and getting a GED at sixteen, I tracked down the 'survivors' (most of whom commit suicide within a year) and got their stories, and by piecing them together well enough to locate and identify some of the places in question - remember they were under the social radar at the time and meant to stay that way, and used blindfolds and closed vehicles to limit that knowledge also to prevent escapes from being effective.

Wasn't any thought of going to the law about it, one can imagine the result of the few forays kids made while in school relative to the issue, trying to bring the issue of a 'transferred' kid to the authorities was all too often a fast ticket to getting 'transferred' yourself!

And so we went after em, at first it was purely destructive hit & run raids, get in, maximum damage without harm or injury to personnel, and get the hell out before the law showed up - which they did quick, cause these places cultivate a "relationship" with local law enforcement and social services, and I'll get back to that shortly...

Problem with those raids was, we weren't accomplishing a damned thing, and in fact were giving those places an excuse to come down on their captives all the harder - again, they were off the radar back then, which allowed them to be far, FAR more brutal than they are now, trust me on this - find any current or former hellcamp, draw a 1 mile circle around it on a map, and somewhere in there you will find a collection of unmarked graves, I goddamn guarantee it.

You see, that's what "nulls" are - they are missing/runaways that everybody KNOWS are dead, but it's politically inconvenient, embarrassing, or dangerous to make an issue of it, so they get punched into the NCMEC database and then flagged /null so that they can't EVER be brought up, by anyone, yet still count against the tally when the NCMEC goes begging for funding - and since they can't be brought up, won't flag if anyone ever trips over the body, for example.
There's a way around it, but hell if imma share.

That's the reason I have no respect for NCMEC, it's just like when the cops bag up a predator ring, and come down hard on the snatchers, producers and distributors, but let the kingpins go with a smile and a wave thanks to political connections and exceptional clearance.

Others don't play that way, when the Zandvoort issue broke in Belgium, someone in Morkhoven took *issue* with the matter, hard, with a submachinegun.
Belgian authorities have had a hard-on for em ever since, and their former leader had an "accident" right after, but before they got on the roll then the Dutroux case blew up and everything went to hell.
Worse, it got Jackie on their ass - aka Princess Jacqueline de Croÿ.
You DO NOT mess with that lady, she's a sweet and kind person, but she catches one of these bastards out, you will be very quickly reminded she's a direct descendant of friggin DRACULA, and the house of croy will ram a mailed fist so far up your ass you'll be usin a toothbrush to polish the knuckles, ok ?

I mention it cause she found out what happened to Madeline McCann, who is now also listed as a /null - although her parents are indeed innocent.

We never played by the rules of the enemy neither - especially given we were young enough when we started to still be potential victims of the bastards.
Which gave rise to a revision of tactics.

We'd find a sympathetic relative, get their go-ahead, and we would TAKE people back, our first run on that was hilariously B-movie overkill, what with me running down the fence with the car and waving around a tire iron and a coke bottle full of gasoline with a road flare duct taped to it, howling dire threats as the others politely escorted the kid back to the car.
Probably woulda worked just as well to have simply walked in and demanded, given that the hellcamps hadn't even thought of resistance of that nature yet, but it worked out better in the end that they *were* afraid of us - not the kingpins, but the directors and the flunkies, many of whom were former victims who derived a certain amount of satisfaction from being on the other end, and were considered by us to be the lowest form of collaborators.

One thing that struck some folk as odd is that the rescuee would have to WANT to come - the ritual offer of extended hand was sacrosanct, and if they turned away, that was it, cause if we did it any other way, we wound up no better than the bastards we were kicking in the teeth.

The legalese of it was thus: IF you pull it off, you get the kid to the "end zone", then it's a debate for the lawyers and social services and all that merry rot, although if pressed you can be held responsible for damages or injuries incurred by your actions - which wasn't never the case cause we had too damn much blackmail we'd be HAPPY to see on-record in open court, oh yes.

But IF YOU FAIL, IF YOU FALL - trespassing, kidnapping, interstate flight, hell, the whole bloody laundry list would fall on you in a heap.
This inspired a certain ruthlessness once we had kid in hand, and eventually made any real effort at pursuit or further hostilities prettymuch a dead letter, especially what with my rep of really, really WANTING an excuse.
They never knew my name, wouldn't remember the face, but they DAMN sure remember those jump boots, which I would apply quite savagely given even a pittance of a reason.

Soon enough, we had concerned relatives and siblings calling upon US.

Occasionally we decided to up the ante, try to get these places shut down by having social services arrive when we did, to forestall hostilities and give them excuse to inspect and us excuse to make official complaint - but that came apart with a bang at one of those "christian deprogramming" facilities on the indiana border where kids get sent for the evils of heavy metal, literature, and generally not being a mindless zealot - poor sanitary conditions, jack shit for lighting, and the kids were chained by one hand to a desk and forced to memorize scripture in order to obtain the minimal amounts of bread and water which was their entire sustenance.

Only, see, remember me mentioning that some of these places co-opt the local law enforcement and social services ?
Why wouldn't they, it's a nice mutually beneficial agreement that allows the local law or social services to "suggest" folk send their problem kids there and get em out of THEIR hair, and a nice kickback besides, right ?
I did mention the judges, a while back, didn't I ?

So the social services folk ratted us out, pulled a no show, and the goddamn fundies opened fire on us, causing VI's first actual casualty, written off as mistaken identity/self defense and no charges filed cause everyone there was so far in the wrong they'd have to arrest EVERYBODY elsewise.
It did draw enough attention to the place to get it shut down - the Promise Keepers *still* want my head for that, but oh well.

There's good bloody reasons I don't trust CPS/Social Services, not the least of which is proven links between the foster care and freak feeder systems, and stuff like the antagonism at El Dorado between the primarily Baptist members of CPS and the FLDS, which went so far over the top the original mental health personnel felt the need to make official complaint about it and got sacked for their troubles.

*IF* you can get them to play by-the-book, they can be a valuable asset, but that's no as common or easy as you'd think it might be, and certainly not as it OUGHT to be.

I got issues with airport security too, given how they get these kids on the plane with so few questions asked, often without passport or paperwork, and the security just takes the transporters word for it cause teens are automatically scum ?
(not sure how it works post 9-11, all this was before then.)

Took one girl back in an airport bathroom from one of strawns goons right after he gave her whatever they were using to pacify their transportees, that was a "hot call" - generally a snatch in progress called in by a relative or sibling, and very, very legally risky in that it might involve a direct engagement with the transporter and any goons he brought with him to control the transportee.

Sent my backup to put the transporters van out of commission and spotted the creep ducking into a bathroom off the very end of the main concourse where there was almost no traffic, and didn't bother to negotiate, just kicked the damn door in and floored him with a stungun, too late though, since he'd already shot her up with whatever - and I *SO* would have loved to linger a while for a loving caress from my boots, had to get the girl out of there quick before she keeled over, and before airport security came with questions about a very fucked up looking situation, alas.

They'll do that even now, just before they send em out - it's gone from kicking the hellcamp door in, to producing a court order at the gate, and so one of the things they do just before they shove em out at you is shoot the kid way full of heavy stuff so they look and act "crazy", providing the excuse that "see, we were right about them!" and making their testimony debateable or even inadmissible, as if anyone believes what a mere kid would say anyways - ain't like they're HUMAN, ain't like they're PEOPLE, right ?

The real bonesmaker that sealed the rep of VI good and proper though, was the initial raid on High Impact.
The border was the easiest part - the two agents KNEW something odd was going on, figured it for white slavery or human trafficking, and were easy to persuade to get a little vision-impaired regarding the matter.

Had to sneak up on the place during the night, in order to disable the trucks, and then low crawl around to the other side - by the time I found the girl it was almost morning, and she was in far worse shape than expected, didn't make even half a mile before she collapsed, delirious from the mistreatment, malnutrition, dehydration, etc.
Apparently they'd left her to bake in the cage the day before cause she was considered a "flight risk" (aka maybe healthy enough to make it to the border)
http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/fornitswiki/index.php/High_Impact

The hell if I was gonna leave her, so I picked her up across my shoulders, and I swear, she COULDN'T have been even eighty pounds, I carried rucksacks heavier than that poor girl, but still... miles and miles across some seriously badass mexican desert, hardly any water cause I gave most of it to her to keep her from gettin any worse, with some VERY pissed off camp stooges somewhere behind me thinkin evil thoughts wasn't no one gonna keep em from carryin out, cause we had to go around Tecate and generally at an angle across the middle of no-damn-where cause the LAST thing we wanted was to get caught out by the mexican police pulling a stunt like this.

The irony of it all is that they made so damn much fuss about it to the mexican police, it drew their ire and the horrific conditions of the place gave em an excuse to shut it down, although there's a black site in operation about 8-10 miles further south, currently.

Those are the worst, the black sites, places not even on the paperwork, there was one over in eastern europe they had for a while which would outright SELL the kids off, then report em as runaways - Morova was damn near as bad itself.

And where did they come from ?
(some of this is before my time, but was passed to me in the files of an older gentleman who asked me to carry this torch forward when he discovered us)

Way back when there was this little cult called Synanon, which was in part being bankrolled out of the Monarch/Bluebook playbook, in a research effort to discover useful mind-control techniques, some of which are used to this very day by both army basic training, and these hellcamps.

Back in 1971 the Feds spawned their own version, called The Seed, which changed it's name, but not it's game to Straight, Inc.
And calling their brutal mind control a drug treatment regimen, got to dip deep into the sweet, seemingly endless coffers of the "War on (some) Drugs" despite their well known prolictivity for using pharmaceuticals as a control mechanism - deep enough to field their own political candidate, one Mitt Romney.

Eventually they became WWASP, and their primary feeder system was something called Pathway Family Centers, which operated as their intake and money funnel.
http://www.pfctruth.com/pathwayorigins.htm

Here's a handy, although badly outdated chart, of some of the connections.
http://thestraights.com/the-straights/thestraights-fc.htm
It's WAY bigger and more complex than that, especially if you add in the off books and black sites, as well as government involvement at the juvenile justice level.

And as my body and health became more and more trashed, and the bastards got dragged, kicking and screaming, into the public view, it went from boot and blade to more espionage, stealing their files, often jacking the tapes right from their internal surveillance systems, catching them on film in the act of abuse, you name it - and when I was no longer able to physically stick it to them, I had plenty enough well trained rescuees to do it for me, while coordinating and exploiting technology against them.
(their encryption and signal security really sucks.)

And as of Feb 2009, Pathway, their primary source of both income and fresh victims, is DEAD DEAD DEAD.
And unless they find a fresh source of both, which'll happen over my charred remains, that beast is gonna starve - and all it's little parasite buddies with it, and that'll be the end of em.
And if the public never knows, so much the better, it's a nightmare they don't need to experience, and one better in the ground and forgotten, than in operation and cranking out misery and monsters.

As I said, that whole dynamic, from rendition to the torture, that's been with us a long time, but since it was done to kids and teens, who are not considered people or human by our society, nobody else really gave a shit.

But when they started doin that crap to ADULTS, it all hit the fan, didn't it?

Where the hell do you think these radical authoritarians and merry little torturers come from, anyhows - there ARE victims who embrace the methodology of their victimizers, and become the very links from which this chain continues as they victimize others in their turn.

And way too goddamn many of em wind up in law enforcement, the military, or politics.

So there, there's the monster factory, and there's what I do.

- C-6/CuckooBird.

PS. No, I didn't get on the plane, and yes I'm still alive.
PPS. And John will probably shit a brick when he puts this all together, cause crazy as the man is, he ain't stupid.

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 4:29 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
I mention it cause she found out what happened to Madeline McCann, who is now also listed as a /null - although her parents are indeed innocent.

There's a tie-in to that case in the Baltic area? Ohhh, does it have anything to do with the black site you mentioned in Eastern Europe? Who called in the transport on her, do you know, and what was the motive, they have something against the parents?

Ha, you probably can't talk about it, otherwise you'd've said more. Guess I should start looking.

Quote:
We'd find a sympathetic relative, get their go-ahead, and we would TAKE people back, our first run on that was hilariously B-movie overkill, what with me running down the fence with the car and waving around a tire iron and a coke bottle full of gasoline with a road flare duct taped to it, howling dire threats as the others politely escorted the kid back to the car.
Probably woulda worked just as well to have simply walked in and demanded, given that the hellcamps hadn't even thought of resistance of that nature yet, but it worked out better in the end that they *were* afraid of us - not the kingpins, but the directors and the flunkies, many of whom were former victims who derived a certain amount of satisfaction from being on the other end, and were considered by us to be the lowest form of collaborators.

Kind of telling, that some of the victims become the tormentors. Definitely do see reflections of this in Abu Ghraib and other sections of the military.

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 5:33 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Well, I'm thoroughly confused. Is this your story? If so, how can you speak of it so openly--surely the people you talked about could put two and two together and figure out who you are if they wanted to. And of course there's no way for me or anyone else to verify it, so why should we believe you?

I mean no offense at ALL, it's just pretty heavy stuff and there's no way I can know anything. It's fascinating, and I wouldn't be surprise if there certainly ARE such places and things...mankind is certainly quite capable of such horrors, there are those in every society willing to be part of them, kids do vanish every day and if they do so with their family's complicity, would easily be written off as runaways, etc.

But I should think more would have come to light along the way and gotten press--to imagine all these things exist and are kept quiet by everyone who comes across them is kinda tough. It's also kind of confusing the way you tell it, there are things I don't understand and--I'm just guessing here--are you saying someone put you in one of these places in the very beginning? I'm just very confused.

As I always do, I take you at face value until/unless you do something to make me think otherwise, but I think you can understand my questions, as this is all brand new to me and pretty dramatic.

Helluva story...helluva world...sigh...

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 5:59 AM

FREMDFIRMA

I'd ask if you were sure you wanted to go down the rabbithole - but you, miss, are so much like me that it's not even a question, is it now ?

http://www.droitfondamental.eu/06-Ylena_lead_to_maddie-GB.htm

Jackie is a damned effective investigator, and her social and political status gives her an edge on top of that.

There's certain things which happen when a person dies, which gives additional evidence beyond blood splatter, which isn't directly mentioned but was also present.

Someone screwed up the snatch, in a lethal kind of way, and that's all the details of it beyond WHO (and we have a very good idea) that needs be known.

Jackie has her own public files, most of which are available via that site, but she plays aboveboard, as someone of her status has to.

The various rings are known to us, despite many of the ringleaders being politically connected so as to be untouchable - one reason the belgian authorities let Nihoul off so easy was that he arranged children for "use" at parties of high level EU officials and would start naming names if the boom came down too hard.

The american pipeline for that material, despite even the possibility being fervently denied, was the candyman yahoo egroup run by wayne camolli of ft lauderdale FL - and yahoo went out of their way to actively protect them initially, whereupon some unnamed individual managed to rile up half the damn userbase and the backlash forced yahoo to back down and quit stonewalling - everyone knew what was going on, but user count and income meant a lot more than morality to them, you see.

And let's not even get into George Burdinsky and AOL's sordid little history, or maybe, yes, let's!

Testimony of Crimmins
http://www.cdt.org/speech/cda/950724crimmins.html

The Florida Lawsuit
http://www.aolsucks.org/flasuit.htm

By allowing safe harbor for those assholes to congregate, trade victims, and validate themselves while sharing tactics and contacts, AOL bears some responsibility for the explosion of online predators into the mainstream from 1991-1997, at which point the rampage of Marcus Lawson and the boys at US Customs kicked them back into their dark little holes.
http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2000/04/35684
I love how Adult Check tries to pretend they didn't have their hand in that pie, EVERY billing service did, and it scared the piss out of em.
Tom Reedy got damn near 1400 YEARS, consecutive.

And Parry Aftab sucking up, who then tried to sell me out when the bastards offered $30k for my IRL location and offered to split the bounty with the owner website hosting some of my editorials, who said hell yes only to find out all the contact info I gave her was fake, as if I wasn't ready for that shit after what they did to Luther and The-Underground, when 20/20 sold them down the river in exchange for more advertising $$$ from AOL ?

It was pointing out these billing gateways as the weak point that caused the howling for my head, since it's a clean, clear, undeniable evidence of the crime in question unless the card is reported stolen prior to the transaction.

Of course, as of Operation Avalanche, the wealthy and politically connected are allowed to plead identity theft as a dodge since actually prosecuting them would lead to some damned embarrassing questions, wouldn't it now ?

And Jenny came in with the smackdown - you wanna know WHY I supported that lady as Governor of Michigan ?

Not only did she put her boot into AOL's ass over violation of COPA, which caused the supremes to rule that the act meant the exact opposite of what it said and file an injuction against MI prosecuting them for it, an act which all reference to seems to have evaporated, including Rehnquists colorfully worded dissent...

But she took that billing company weakness and exploited it HARD.
http://web.archive.org/web/20020924064334/http://www.ag.state.mi.us/pr
ess_release/pr10350.htm
She cut off the MONEY, and strangled em to death, and for that *alone* the lady has my support and deepest respect.

And while I will back the play of any of the aboveboard, by the book people - I don't play by rules the enemy has bought and paid for, like the FSC cutting the law Patrick Naughton was busted under to pieces via buying a friendly judge, one day before the bastard was supposed to be sentenced for it - and lightly enough since again they let the big boy slide to round up the little fish, grrr...

And WHO was bankrolling the FSC in order to protect their reputation ?
Disney subsidary Infoseek.

How DO you fight an opposing force with enough money to buy or blackmail ANYONE, when it comes to it ?

You fight dirty - one of the better tricks was a variation of the NoPed.A worm, which exploited "hide registered file extensions".

So "daddydarling.jpg.vbs" ACTUALLY shows as
"daddydarling.jpg" since vbs is a "registered file extension" and the perp double clicks it cause it's come from his trusted list, and that's his ass - that one scared the everliving hell out of them, and NoPed.C - which never got wilded, was based on drive install/format software and would do a destructive track zero write and make the whole drive unusable, after flashing the image of a snow owl.

And you introduce detroit street hoodlums to the modern day badger game, since AOL member rooms are still used by slimy parents willing to sell their childrens company for cash - just pop in, make the offer, and when the perp shows up, stomp his ass and take his money!
What's he gonna do, call a cop ? HA!

Wayne County Internet Crimes Task Force is damn near as merciless, and quite efficient - this state has a rep as a predator no-go zone, and now with Pathway gone it's pretty clear that BOTH ends of that shit are unwelcome here.

"If we are to survive, a new balance must be found. In normal times, evil would be fought by good. But in times like these, well, it should be fought by another kind of evil."
-Aereon.

In order for mankind to grow, to adapt - you have to have people who are capable of it, capable of accepting it - instead of the emotionally crippled, stunted, distorted and darker copies of ourselves our whole society is devoted to cranking out, you see ?

I can't really be part of that, being as messed up as current generations myself, just in different ways - but I can damn sure help clear a path for those who might be, by removing threats to their humanity before they fully develop it.

Kids are human, they're people, and the fact that society currently regards them is less is the one battle I desperately want to win before they shovel me in, because it'll be the one that wins all the others in a single stroke.

"Remember, the enemies gate is down!"
-Ender Wiggin.

- Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:22 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Well, I'm thoroughly confused. Is this your story? If so, how can you speak of it so openly--surely the people you talked about could put two and two together and figure out who you are if they wanted to.

Well, by now, Niki - most of the ones who'd want to do much about it are either dead or rotting in prison, and having passed the torch down to the next generation my presence isn't gonna make or break the efforts I set in motion, and it's too damn late for hanging me out to dry to do em any good at all.

Besides, even now, no one much cares - but we're workin on that, by allowing the growth of people who will.

Quote:
And of course there's no way for me or anyone else to verify it, so why should we believe you?

Actually you can - I've been cagey with links cause I don't wanna expose anyone unwilling to some of this awful stuff, but I am naming names here, which an hours worth of Google will verify quite handily.

Quote:
I mean no offense at ALL, it's just pretty heavy stuff and there's no way I can know anything. It's fascinating, and I wouldn't be surprise if there certainly ARE such places and things...mankind is certainly quite capable of such horrors, there are those in every society willing to be part of them, kids do vanish every day and if they do so with their family's complicity, would easily be written off as runaways, etc.

But it's so very hard to wrap your mind around the concept, the scale of it, oh I know, it's one reason I *am* so cagey with the details, usually.

Quote:
But I should think more would have come to light along the way and gotten press--to imagine all these things exist and are kept quiet by everyone who comes across them is kinda tough.

It WAS kept quiet - not anymore, and some penniesworth of that dollar is mine, something I am right proud of, and also these guys.
http://www.caica.org/
http://www.nospank.net/boot.htm
http://www.isaccorp.org/
http://www.teenliberty.org/
http://www.overthegw.com/
http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

Quote:
It's also kind of confusing the way you tell it, there are things I don't understand and--I'm just guessing here--are you saying someone put you in one of these places in the very beginning?

There used to be sort of an in-between stage of these places, "second chance" schools which folks booted out of normal mainstream schools got sent to instead of Juvie or the Hellcamps - but are now defunct, and most of them we found had their own agendas.

The one they sent me to was more or less set up to funnel very aggressive and violent types into the army, which viewed from a certain light was neither that wicked nor that horrible an idea, but their execution of it was pretty awful, and some of the things they set those recruits to doing once enlisted were inexcusable, since they were more or less aggressive psychopaths with little in the way of ethics or morals.

I turned on them and used THEM in a similar fashion that they used me, and then got out cause they broke my enlistment contract by not ponying up for college.

Quote:
As I always do, I take you at face value until/unless you do something to make me think otherwise, but I think you can understand my questions, as this is all brand new to me and pretty dramatic.

No doubt - but the thing is, the discussion of this stuff - you have to go to the roots, and we as a society spend so much time and effort dancing AROUND what we're gonna need to face if we ever mean to take the problem seriously.

The bullseye of the matter is that until we treat children as human beings, as people, these horrors are going to continue to exist in one form or another, just as we once sent wives and mothers unhappy with their treatment (and regular beatings) to insane asylums for displaying natural human reactions to that abuse.

Most of the excuses for the way we treat kids, are in fact the same ones for the way society used to treat slaves and women - and are every bit as false in this respect as they were in the others.

Win THAT one, you win em all, in a single stroke.

-F

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Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:51 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
we as a society spend so much time and effort dancing AROUND what we're gonna need to face if we ever mean to take the problem seriously.

I certainly agree with that (!), and am glad to see there are those who force us to face it.

Quote:
The bullseye of the matter is that until we treat children as human beings, as people, these horrors are going to continue to exist in one form or another, just as we once sent wives and mothers unhappy with their treatment (and regular beatings) to insane asylums for displaying natural human reactions to that abuse.

and that as well. I might add, women who acted out on their period, and the mentally ill. Your point is well taken.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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