REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

It's time.

POSTED BY: JONUS
UPDATED: Sunday, March 26, 2006 14:25
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 6111
PAGE 1 of 3

Monday, March 20, 2006 4:45 PM

JONUS


I believe I know the purpose of my life. It is to overthrow the government. How did I figure this?

I saw V for Vendetta on Saturday and heard the story of Guy Fawkes and his plan to blow up parliament and in the process kill the king. It struck a chord and deeply inspired me and I have NEVER been so inspired by anything in my life. I've lived my whole life being a fucking couch potato, but I've always hated the government and any man who thinks he's better than another man. Complacent with the shit that goes on. Playing video games all day and watching movies to escape the shit of the world. Working jobs I hate and not being appreciated. Now I don’t want to kill the president. I just want to put the government “out of business”. I’ve been wracking my brain thinking of all that’s wrong with the country and thinking of what to do.

I thought of getting everyone to stop paying taxes. Without the people and their support the government can’t exist. They need us. This would take years to take effect. So we keep our fucking money and use violence if necessary. I've become so sick and fucking tired of accepting the world the way it is. It's time the people take back what's theirs. I'll follow God's laws but not some super conservative fuck who justifies his actions in the name of God.

I can't do it alone. I need everyone. We can take back everything and give it back to the people.

WE ARE NOT FREE. BUT WE CAN BE. It's time to stop being complacent. ACT NOW.

I'm a Jedi.
I'm a Ringer.
I'm a BROWNCOAT.

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Monday, March 20, 2006 5:00 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by Jonus:

use violence if necessary.




Quote:

Originally posted by Jonus:

I'll follow God's laws




You are aware that these two statments contradict eachother, right?

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Monday, March 20, 2006 5:11 PM

DREAMTROVE


Jonus, dude, fellow browncoat.

YOU MUST CHILL!

If you don't like the govt., fine, vote for someone else. If you think that's not enough, organize other people to vote for someone else.

But what you are doing here is buying yourself a one way ticket to guantanamo.

It's not nearly as bad as you think. People like Bush, and Clinton, get into power because they have organizations, people who work for them, people who they pay, to work for them, who them go and vote for them, and take their friends to vote for them, in the primary.

Primary is where it happens, and the sheep are shepherded in to vote for the mainstream candidate. The Christian looney fringe was brought in, litterally bussed in, to vote for George W. Bush. Hillary Clinton will have eager neofeminist coeds do the same thing for her.

But the reason this works is that the people sit on their asses stoned and watching Tv, instead of organizing to support someone else.

But you gotta stop with the whole treason against the US of A thing.


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Monday, March 20, 2006 5:22 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Jonus:
I believe I know the purpose of my life. It is to overthrow the government. How did I figure this?

I saw V for Vendetta on Saturday and heard the story of Guy Fawkes and his plan to blow up parliament and in the process kill the king. It struck a chord and deeply inspired me and I have NEVER been so inspired by anything in my life. I've lived my whole life being a fucking couch potato, but I've always hated the government and any man who thinks he's better than another man. Complacent with the shit that goes on. Playing video games all day and watching movies to escape the shit of the world. Working jobs I hate and not being appreciated. Now I don’t want to kill the president. I just want to put the government “out of business”. I’ve been wracking my brain thinking of all that’s wrong with the country and thinking of what to do.

I thought of getting everyone to stop paying taxes. Without the people and their support the government can’t exist. They need us. This would take years to take effect. So we keep our fucking money and use violence if necessary. I've become so sick and fucking tired of accepting the world the way it is. It's time the people take back what's theirs. I'll follow God's laws but not some super conservative fuck who justifies his actions in the name of God.

I can't do it alone. I need everyone. We can take back everything and give it back to the people.

WE ARE NOT FREE. BUT WE CAN BE. It's time to stop being complacent. ACT NOW.

I'm a Jedi.
I'm a Ringer.
I'm a BROWNCOAT.



Rise up my friend, saving your country from itself isn't treason....

Whatever it takes is never too high a price



" Over and in, last call for sin
While everyone's lost, the battle is won
With all these things that I've done "

The Killers

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/killers/allthesethingsthativedone.html


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Monday, March 20, 2006 6:22 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

saving your country from itself isn't treason


Actually technically it is.

Advocating the overthrow of your goverment through violence or knowingly aided and abetting her enemies in their attempt to do harm.

The last part is important, meaning if you sold catfood to Al Qaeda your not guilty of treason. If you taught them how to fly airplanes and not land, and you had some knowledge that they intended to do harm to the US, ie, you had an IQ point, then that's a different story.

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Monday, March 20, 2006 10:55 PM

CITIZEN


yeah rise up, if nothing else it'll be a laugh.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 1:02 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


stupid double post. Grrrrr!

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 1:02 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
yeah rise up, if nothing else it'll be a laugh.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.




Nothing like pointless violence to lighten the mood, huh?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 1:34 AM

CITIZEN


Thinly vailed Red Dwarf quote...

Lister: Yeah that's the best plan yet! Let it get knackered eating me too death then you guys can just catch it unawares!
Kryten: Even if it doesn't work it'll be a laugh!



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:52 AM

JONUS


Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Quote:



Rise up my friend, saving your country from itself isn't treason....

Whatever it takes is never too high a price




Don't know if you're just being sarcastic or not. If you're being truthful then thanks. I need people with courage like yours.

Next phases: Stop voting for a leader. The USA is the "free world" and yet we have a RULER. Does that sound right to you?

Start boycotting. Oil and whatever else we buy that supports our government and other governments.

To the other posts:
I knew I would run into people like you. You're afraid of being persecuted. You're too complacent. You fear authority and change. WE DESERVE BETTER.

God never said not to act with violence. He said "Don't kill."

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:05 AM

CHRISISALL


"To fight for yourselves is right.
But to die in vain is the act of stupid men." - KCC

Violence is not the way. It replicates what it wishes to destroy.- Chrisisall

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:59 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


And a fruitcake is born.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:00 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Jonus:
Start boycotting. Oil and whatever else we buy that supports our government and other governments.


Go for it (more oil for me...)

I'd also suggest you boycott everthing else... like food, public utilities, the internet.

I wont throw around buzzwords like treason and sedition. I will note that you probably wont be tracked down and arrested for your treasonous and seditious opinions unless and until you take an unlawful violent action. This is the halmark of our free society. Talk all you want, but if you blow something up or drive while intoxicated guys like me will put you in jail.

And don't go yelling fire in a crowded theater or threatening the President...free speech has its limits too.

H

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:21 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
I will note that you probably wont be tracked down and arrested for your treasonous and seditious opinions unless and until you take an unlawful violent action. This is the halmark of our free society.

I will note that just by being on this board, ALL of us will be virtually tagged and monitered. This is the halmark of our paranoid and Religious Extremist society.

But I agree with you Hero, that if we must act to change things, we must do so within the law.

Not as nutty as you thought, huh? Chrisisall

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:29 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
I will note that just by being on this board, ALL of us will be virtually tagged and monitered. This is the halmark of our paranoid and Religious Extremist society.

Not me. I’ll be doing the monitoring. I’ve been implanted to infiltrate and observe the highly dangerous Browncoat organization.




Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:30 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
And a fruitcake is born.


Finn, that is THE briefest assessment of a person, situation or opinion I've ever seen from you. Care to try and talk him down off that bridge rationally? If anyone can do it, you can.

Is 'fruitcake' an ad hominem? Chrisisall

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:31 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I’ll be doing the monitoring. I’ve been implanted to infiltrate and observe the highly dangerous Browncoat organization.



I knew it

Betrayedisall

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:32 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Finn, that is THE briefest assessment of a person, situation or opinion I've ever seen from you. Care to try and talk him down off that bridge rationally? If anyone can do it, you can.

I’m just going to wait for him to jump. The rest sounds like too much work.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:59 AM

HARDWARE


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:

saving your country from itself isn't treason


Actually technically it is.

Advocating the overthrow of your goverment through violence or knowingly aided and abetting her enemies in their attempt to do harm.




I believe the founding fathers disagree with you Dreamtrove.

Quote:


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.


Given the American history of violent revolution I don't think your statement holds water.
Quote:


But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security


Hmm, "throw off" doesn't sound like voting somebody out of office to me. WWGWD? What Would George Washington Do?

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:53 AM

FLETCH2


Nuts.... now I'm craving fruitcake.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:33 AM

REAVERMAN


I agree with Jonus that there are some serious problems with the way our government is run, but sometimes you are forced to choose between the lesser of two evils. If Jonus' proposed revolution came to fruition tomorrow, ya know what we would have? Utter chaos. Americans are far from a unified people. If the government collapsed, litterally all hell would break loose.
With 15,000+ nuclear weopons in storage or active readiness around the nation, how long do you think it will be before some band of extreme leftists grab a nuke or ten and decide to get rid of the bible belt? Or a group of extreme rightists gets one and decides to annihilate New York City because it's a "blue state"? Worst case scenario, total racial warfare erupts in urban areas across the country. Imagine the death and devastation if entire races started slaughtering each other in the streets. At the very least, the extremists from both ends of the political spectrum would start shooting each other with the moderate majority caught in the crossfire, unable to decide on what to do. Meanwhile, nations like China would quickly seize this as an opportunity to stage a "police action" which would leave us truly oppressed. You think we're oppressed now, but look at the Chinese. You(Jonus would be dragged from your home, interrogated, quite possibly tortured, then shot as a traitor. The simple fact that you are still breathing is proof enough that we are not an oppressed people. The only really valid course of action left to people like us who want to change things is to use the institutions already in place to do it legally. It is an extremely slow process because of how entrenched the system is, but it can be done if only people find the patience to go through with it.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 10:23 AM

FLETCH2


I was thinking recently about the differences between the movie and the V for Vendetta comic book. In the comic neither the government or V were especially pure. V's motives where principly revenge and a craving for anarchy while the Fascist government saw itself as the saviors of the people. Each saw themselves as the good guys, each were polar opposites, tyrany vs anarcy and neither would be any sane person's choice as a form of political system.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 10:31 AM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by Jonus:
I believe I know the purpose of my life. It is to overthrow the government. How did I figure this?

I saw V for Vendetta on Saturday and heard the story of Guy Fawkes and his plan to blow up parliament and in the process kill the king. It struck a chord and deeply inspired me and I have NEVER been so inspired by anything in my life. I've lived my whole life being a fucking couch potato, but I've always hated the government and any man who thinks he's better than another man. Complacent with the shit that goes on. Playing video games all day and watching movies to escape the shit of the world. Working jobs I hate and not being appreciated. Now I don’t want to kill the president. I just want to put the government “out of business”. I’ve been wracking my brain thinking of all that’s wrong with the country and thinking of what to do.

I thought of getting everyone to stop paying taxes. Without the people and their support the government can’t exist. They need us. This would take years to take effect. So we keep our fucking money and use violence if necessary. I've become so sick and fucking tired of accepting the world the way it is. It's time the people take back what's theirs. I'll follow God's laws but not some super conservative fuck who justifies his actions in the name of God.

I can't do it alone. I need everyone. We can take back everything and give it back to the people.

WE ARE NOT FREE. BUT WE CAN BE. It's time to stop being complacent. ACT NOW.

I'm a Jedi.
I'm a Ringer.
I'm a BROWNCOAT.




Now this is what I call a motivated man! You have courage, but don't be too surprised when the guys in black suits and cars stamped "Secret service" show up in front of your house.

River

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:39 PM

DREAMTROVE


Jonus,

Quote:

Don't know if you're just being sarcastic or not. If you're being truthful then thanks. I need people with courage like yours.


Oops. I hadn't considered the posibility that it was sarcasm, sure, Sorry, it was probably sarcasm.

Quote:

Next phases: Stop voting for a leader. The USA is the "free world" and yet we have a RULER. Does that sound right to you?


Absolutely. It says so in the consitution. The constitution is not just the founding document of this country, it is based on the constitution of the five nations, the binding oath which from oral tradition became a document and heavily influenced the founding fathers.

The reality is, America is not a chaos set up by white people. That would be Australia. America is an entity into which we immigrated in large numbers. The consitution in its present form is very much a reflection of the consitution as it existed when we came. Point being, it's the law of the land, as it was before we, our ancestors, immigrated here. It is not ours to change.

Quote:

Start boycotting. Oil and whatever else we buy that supports our government and other governments.


This is what you can do in a free society. More effective than a boycott would be to work on alternative energies.

Quote:

To the other posts:

I knew I would run into people like you. You're afraid of being persecuted. You're too complacent. You fear authority and change. WE DESERVE BETTER.

God never said not to act with violence. He said "Don't kill."



Actually I believe it was litteral thou shalt not commit murder. God was into genocide.

But you're really well and truly missing the point.

Fear persecution?

How about this: We believe in the system. You are threatening the system. You are rising up in opposition to us.

Sure, we should have better leadership than Bush. And we have a system, many actually, for getting rid of him. He could be impeached, imprisoned, forced to resign, voted out of office, or through the course of legal action the union could be dissolved.

In all cases, the law of the land is quite likely to remain. The constitution, the founding document of not only this union, but all 50 of its states, will continue to guide us, as will the Declaration of Independence. If you has cited the DoI imperative to throw off unjust rule and had used it as a pretext to start a course seeking legal action to disolve the union, your response would have been different.

But, if we do as you suggest, and abandon the constitution, then we open up to the possibility of abject tyranny. The new rule, even leaderless rule, might be a communist oligarchy, regardless of what you intend. Remember, it was not Lenin who overthrew the Czar, it was Kerensky. Once the old order is gone, the new order will be replaced by another new order until there is one which is strong and cannot be defeated. This new power of iron will cannot guarantee the level of checks and balances that this current system has. I look around the globe and I can see no system which is more equitable and fair to its people and more allowing of control and condemnation of its leadership, then this one, so I choose to defend it.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:45 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn:

And a fruitcake is born.



I think we're probably more alike then we'd care to admit. I actually originally posted something very similar. I believe it went something like this: "Bring out the tin foil hats"

But then I went back and edited and wrote the post you saw. I thought that maybe it was better to talk him out of it before he got shipped to guantanamo, or hurt someone.

Really, I'm glad whenever a couch potato wakes up to the fact that he's the one doing nothing and allowing evil to flourish, but they tend to be overanxious when you first wake them up.

But before we just give him the blue pill, maybe he can stop and think about it before deciding on a course of action.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:51 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Not me. I’ll be doing the monitoring. I’ve been implanted to infiltrate and observe the highly dangerous Browncoat organization.


Ah, but what you don't realize is that when your boys at army threat assessment sent you on this dangerous mission, they began monitoring you. How many times has he watched each episode? Did the fact that he watch the train job or ariel multiple times indicate that he's gone over to the other side?

We see it all the time, infiltrate, stockholm syngrome, lead the rebel group to victory, become a tin-plated dictator. Just as long as you don't cancel our shows, we'll be happy.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:57 PM

DREAMTROVE


Hardware,

That was the very quote I was hoping he would come up with. But I said that already, and of course the founding father were aware that what they were committing was treason, but it was treason against a government they did not recognize. But if they did that, they would do what Washington did, and succeed. In order to do that, they would first need to support people to office in their own state, and seek that legal proceding.


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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:59 PM

DREAMTROVE


Reaverman,

That was a terrific analysis of what would unfold. You should write science fiction.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:59 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Fletch2:
I was thinking recently about the differences between the movie and the V for Vendetta comic book. In the comic neither the government or V were especially pure. V's motives where principly revenge and a craving for anarchy while the Fascist government saw itself as the saviors of the people. Each saw themselves as the good guys, each were polar opposites, tyrany vs anarcy and neither would be any sane person's choice as a form of political system.

That was the impression I got too. It was evident that the methods used by V to achieve his goals were essentially identical to those used by the government he opposed; only the goals differed. And it is really quite an open question as to whether anarchy was any better then fascism. Unfortunately, the movie muddied this aspect, and instead depicted V as a superhero, thereby obscuring the theme of the book.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 6:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


And besides, "the government" isn't your biggest problem. It's those corporations. You think you'd have freedom in global-uber-corporatism? Try cleaning up the environment, or working at a meaningful job for reasonable pay, or getting Firefly back on TV. Oh yeah little man, try rising up against that. All of the big decisions are out of your hands. BUT, you get to choose from 40 different kinds of toilet paper! Now ain't that swell???



From the lofty heights of corporate boards, we are as ants, with one colony pitted against another for the benefit of a few. And unlike democracy, which at least has the theoretical input of its members (until it's corrupted money) you have no way of moving those giants. You can withold your taxes fro the gov, but you still gotta pay at the gas pump. It may be that political democracy is our best weapon against economic tyranny. So who'd want to get rid of that?

---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:12 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Fletch2,
Nuts.... now I'm craving fruitcake.
It had that effect on me too !


Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:15 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


River,
Now this is what I call a motivated man! You have courage, but don't be too surprised when the guys in black suits and cars stamped "Secret service" show up in front of your house.
I have it on good authority that they drive white unmarked cars with HEAVILY tinted windows.


Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:24 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


SignyM

Oh yeah little man, try rising up against that. All of the big decisions are out of your hands. BUT, you get to choose from 40 different kinds of toilet paper! Now ain't that swell???

DAMN ! Now where is that emoticon that shows a happy face and clapping hands ??? !!! Well, you get the idea.


Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:11 AM

REAVERMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
And besides, "the government" isn't your biggest problem. It's those corporations. You think you'd have freedom in global-uber-corporatism? Try cleaning up the environment, or working at a meaningful job for reasonable pay, or getting Firefly back on TV. Oh yeah little man, try rising up against that. All of the big decisions are out of your hands. BUT, you get to choose from 40 different kinds of toilet paper! Now ain't that swell???



From the lofty heights of corporate boards, we are as ants, with one colony pitted against another for the benefit of a few. And unlike democracy, which at least has the theoretical input of its members (until it's corrupted money) you have no way of moving those giants. You can withold your taxes fro the gov, but you still gotta pay at the gas pump. It may be that political democracy is our best weapon against economic tyranny. So who'd want to get rid of that?

---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.




Amen! Eliminate corporate influence in government, and you've solved many of the world's problems. The trick is to figure out how to do that peacefully (no blowing up bilboards, Jonus!) and perminantly...

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:31 AM

REAVERMAN


Quote:

I'll follow God's laws but not some super conservative fuck who justifies his actions in the name of God.


Kind of off topic, but just so you know, according to the Bible(OT), God's law is that if you violate any one of the ten commandments, you are to be put to death (seriously, it really does say that; And I do recall a commandment about killin'). Or did you mean the New Testament, where you are supposed to be a pacifist who is, as I mentioned, a pacifist. Ya know, someone not inclined to, oh, I dont know, VIOLENT UPRISING!?!?

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:52 AM

JONUS


This is really sad. I never knew that all of you were such whores. I thought Browncoats were actually brave enough to fight for something.

Just remember when the end of your life comes that you weren't brave enough to fight for anything. Not strong enough to fight for yourself, your friends or your children.

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:10 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Hmmm Jonus

If the meaning of life is to overthrow governments, then that means governments are needed in life to be overthrown.

Thereby removing them removes the meaning of life - so to give your life meaning you must have them there all the time or else your life becomes meaningingless....

....See where I'm going with this....

Other than that fair 'nuff.

Although everyone knows the meaning of life is 'blancmange'

...don't they?



www.cirqus.com

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:10 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Have YOU been followed by the FBI?I have And all because of what I posted on-line. (I cautioned about bio-warfare two weeks before the anthrax letters were mailed and I'm technically trained. That was enough.) Consider that I have a chronically ill spouse and a brain-damaged child and I'm still posting and I'm still pushing.

But it shouldn't be necessary to grab your semi-automatic to change the government. You convince a bunch of people to think the way you do and you can have your own 'velvet revolution'.

And DAMN. Now I have "revolution" in my post! That's one more thing to go into the file. Oh, well. If I stop posting, you'll know I'm vacationing at Club Gitmo!

BTW- Rue is correct. They have heavily (illegally heavy) tinted windshields.

---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:25 AM

JONUS


I own no guns and have no intentions of getting any. I have no knowledge of explosives and have no interest in them. No knowledge of biological weapons or any type of weapon.

I'm done here but the internet's a big place.

Now, lets close the topic.

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:36 AM

TANKIN


Has anyone seen Team America? Joke of a movie, but there is one concept which is plausible beyond reason. You destroy government, there'd be anarchy. What you suggest is turning the first-world countries into third-world (Sorry for the discriminatory classification on poverty, just trying to make a point, I DON'T think myself better than any other) destroying government is a grand way to end society completely. You need to think of the whole, not just the one.
Taxes pay to service your roads, get your garbage to the tip, even the other mundane tasks of everyday life. We may not like paying them, but they're a necessity, even if the government is ripping us off.
Unfortunately democracy to date is dead. It's all rigged. I can prove this with only conjecture.
If any other Aussie posts on these boards I'd appreciate support. :) John Howard. This man is a joke of a PM, yet he's titled Australia's best Prime Minister...Doesn't say much for us, but anyway to my point. The last few elections I've asked everyone I know offline, online, and got them to ask all they know, an easily totalled tally of 5000+ people within a variety of districts. TWO and only TWO confessed to voting for Howard, everyone else confessed their hatred which I felt mutually with them. Now in the last elections(you must keep up with politics to confirm any of this) the news stated that "John Howard has thrashed on the polls" yet they slightly confused this by stating "The entire country is surprised." The entire country was surprised because NO ONE voted for John Howard, yet still he 'thrashed' the polls...Now it only made sense for the election to be rigged if Bush got re-elected too. (Our Prime Minister was voted in shortly before Bush was voted in.) So I told all my American friends, with a high guarantee, that Bush no matter their vote, would end up President. So what happened? He won the election. Now the conjecture started to piece together. Howard has always been in Bushes pocket, so without Bush the theory of an Australian election being rigged seemed ludacris. That Yank fella (sorry, forgot his name) that helps govern Australia as Howard's 'right hand man' is an affiliate with Bush's political cabinet. Now HE'S going up for election to run our country. I saw in some interview that if John Howard failed his ministral duties, that american fella would end up running Australia...Nice way for Bush to usurp Australia out from the Queen's thrall. Morale to story: Voting is useless.
Now back to the point. Violence begets more violence. Wordplay is far more effective than swordplay (metaphorically), so just remember there is always another way to fight a war. Although you have to wonder about what our governments *don't* tell us......Still, do you truly think things would be better if we killed off democracy? Heretical anarchy bro, it's not worth it. Just go back to your video games, movies and drugs, escaping reality as best you can like the rest of us, and hope one day things will finally change for the better. Anyway it's not just the American government that's screwed up...EVERY government on Earth have their conspiracies, and they need to keep conspiring just because all the others are conspiring. Life as we know it has become a paradox. Maybe we should just make big spaceships and fly to a new solar system where we can all start out fresh? I'm gonna shut up now before I rant out this entire topic. o.o

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 4:55 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Jonus:
I own no guns and have no intentions of getting any. I have no knowledge of explosives and have no interest in them. No knowledge of biological weapons or any type of weapon.



Then how the hell do you expect to overthrow the government? Thats like inviting us all to dinner and not having any food or asking a Democrat to give a lecture on morals. You need the tools to do the job. Otherwise your just a tease.

H

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:42 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:


Then how the hell do you expect to overthrow the government? You need the tools to do the job. Otherwise your just a tease.


Stop encouraging violence, Hero! I thought you were all about the law...

Judge Hero:
"I can't break the law; I AM THE LAW!!!!!"

Take it to those who have it not Chrisisall

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:58 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Tankin:
EVERY government on Earth have their conspiracies



That's true. Why just today...and don't tell anybody you heard this from me...my fellow prosecutors and I conspired with several City police detectives to have lunch at a very good and inexpensive local Mexican resturant. They have actual SMD (Salsa of Mass Destruction).

I'm having the Chicken Burrito, bird flu be damned.

H

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 6:30 AM

JAYTEE


Jonus, we have a government that may not be perfect in it's implementation but it is the closest thing to perfect in it's ideal. While I agree that some things in this country need changing, violent revolution is not the best approach. What is needed today is for people to "get off the damn couch" and participate in their government. Unfortunately, most Americans today are as stupid as they are lazy and that makes up the majority. Our leaders love this fact as they know they can manipulate the minority who still participate through either greed or misinformation. Our system has within it's very framework the capacity for peaceful change which is always preferable to revolution. We must elect leaders who truly have the best interests of ALL Americans at heart and not just a wealthy minority or big business. I would like to paste in this one section of the Declaration of Independence that shows what our forefathers thought about tyrannical governments. I only hope that Americans wake up to what is going on in their nation and are able to solve the problems and issues we face without the need for violence.

EXCERPTED QUOTE FROM DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.

Now this might have been called treason by some but our forefathers risked that and won. We won a nation based on the Rule of Law, not the Rule of Men and we must all protect it and guard it's freedoms as the most precious resources our country possesses.
God Bless America!
"You can try burning my flag but I'd advise you to make sure your life insurance is paid up!"

Jaytee

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:22 AM

FREMDFIRMA


I for one, understand the sentiment, Jonus - the application however is a matter that in these dark McCarthyish days, would be better kept between yourself and your maker.

The walls have ears, as it were.

I myself do NOT agree with the whole concept of playing a rigged game, with marked cards, on the sharpers table, and expecting to accomplish a goddamned thing.

At what point does "within the law" become ludicrous ?
When your protest gets herded into the sub basement of a parking garage 2 miles from the event ? yeah, that'll be real effective.


Don't let any of the mockery bother you - note how effectively your own 'peers' try to hack you off at the knees long before any of the alphabet goons would even bother, and remember the lesson from it, in an age where principles and integrity are scored, and fear rules with an iron fist (count how many times someone mentioned Gitmo), the powers that be depend on the masses to restrain and rat out anyone who *might* pose any kind of threat.

And for all those of ya mockin someone for daring to express such an opinion or feeling?
Shame on you, I dock your coat one shade of brown!

Act according to your conscience, Jonus, but keep it between yourself and your grave, cause no one else really needs to know, unless yer into self-glorification, rather than effect.

And now, to a serious point you'd damned well BETTER understand.

I highly suggest before you take any action at all, you take a good, long, hard look at Iraq - this is what happens when you try to force 'freedom' down on people who were unwilling to TAKE it for themselves... chaos, bloodshed, anarchy, factionalism.

A.E. Van Voght's "The Weapon Shops of Isher" also illustrates this issue and what can be done when a people are unwilling to throw out a corrupt regime.

You can not, and should not, try to force freedom or a change of established order down upon folks who are unwilling or unable to stir themselves from their comfortable little lives to do it themselves - they do not want it, will not keep it, and will resent you for bringing it to their attention when they're trying so damned hard to ignore it.

If you wanna actually make changes, be smart about it, bend the ear of someone with enough power to effect them, rather than trying to raise rowdy with an apathetic and powerless mob who's primary annoyance is gonna be at you, and not the establishment.

I don't often hand out advice, but in this case, it seemed appropriate.

-Frem

PS- Damn good movie tho, that DVD goes beside my Firefly DVDs on the top shelf, and there's no better comment on it's quality than that.

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:52 AM

FLETCH2


You know what? If you don't like it well in 2 years you'll get the chance to change it without killing anyone. In fact you can make a start at changing it this year. Round up your family and friends, seriously research the canidates on both sides and support the one most likely to represent you well in government.

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:56 AM

WHOME


Calls to violence are not protected by free speech laws. (Acceptable: The government stinks, so let's change it. Not Acceptable: The government stinks, so lets get some guns and start shootin'.) Consider editing your post. Or getting some serious anger management and impulse control therapy.

There are lots of ways to "overthrow" a government. I saw a news report on the changing state of Belarus wherein a young Belorussian man explained that he thought the revolution in his country would be economic, rather than political or military. If you don't like the way your government governs, try organizing citizens to vote for someone else, run for office, print your own publication, do SOMETHING besides encouraging violence. Aside form putting yourself on Homeland Security's radar screen (Hi guys! How's the war on "terror" going? We winning yet?), you're making people think you're a little crazy.

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:58 AM

WHOME


Quote:

That's true. Why just today...and don't tell anybody you heard this from me...my fellow prosecutors and I conspired with several City police detectives to have lunch at a very good and inexpensive local Mexican resturant. They have actual SMD (Salsa of Mass Destruction).


I was once involved with a conspiracy to move beer from one place to another. It was very exciting.

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:07 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoMe:
Quote:

That's true. Why just today...and don't tell anybody you heard this from me...my fellow prosecutors and I conspired with several City police detectives to have lunch at a very good and inexpensive local Mexican resturant. They have actual SMD (Salsa of Mass Destruction).


I was once involved with a conspiracy to move beer from one place to another. It was very exciting.


For the record, the 'Lunchtime Conspiracy' was very successful. Our low-priced, high-quality Mexican food was very good and no Mexicans were injured (or deported) during the search for SMD.

H

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:18 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Fletch2:
You know what? If you don't like it well in 2 years you'll get the chance to change it without killing anyone. In fact you can make a start at changing it this year. Round up your family and friends, seriously research the canidates on both sides and support the one most likely to represent you well in government.



Bwahaahahahaha, *cough* hahahahah!

"both"

As in, snivelling little useless, halfass socialista doormats or theocratic facist nutjobs, both of which it's impossible to do any actual research on cause not a one of either has told anything even vaguely resembling the truth in over 100 years.

"both"
*snicker*

I know third parties ain't got what it takes at this point in time, but helping make them viable would be a whole lot smarter choice than the fiction of choice presented to us by a two party system when neither party is worth a damned thing.

I am also amused by the absolute and unacceptable level of stupidity and/or ignorance in some other replies.

Fact - Violence does work as a tool of revolution, you think our forefathers were acting "within the law" when they committed an outright act of treason against the crown ?

Fact - Sometimes it does indeed come to that, go actually read some history, every time any attempt at social change has been made within our borders, the bonus march, civil rights, the confederacy, unions, protests, and have acted within the law, what has resulted in every case ?

Violence - usually instituted by the powers that be, against those who were acting within the law.

Read some of the history of unions within this country, and you'll realize that one of the reasons they're weak and ineffective is because every tactic they used that DID work, was quickly outlawed, and because they were unwilling to respond in kind to violence against them.

I'm not advocating it, just annoyed by naive ignorance - would you have advocated staying 'within the law' to slaves in 1859 ?
Think they'd have gotten very far with it in the social climate and culture of the times ?

THINK, for crying out loud, please.

Quote:

Originally posted by WHOME
Calls to violence are not protected by free speech laws.



Tell that to Ann Coulter, or Pat Robertson, or any other hate-spouter of *ANY* stripe on the radio or internet, most of whom drone on and on about it without any fear of the jackboots kicking in their doors.

So is it really free speech ? or is it just free for certain special people, or what ?

Constitutionally, yes, it *IS* free and protected speech to call upon your brethren to take up arms, in fact, if one would go READ the damned thing instead of spouting spoon-fed legal distortions of it, one would almost say at a certain point it's not just 'free speech' but downright *required* by the document, as the highest law of the land.

Whether that point is now (and I do not believe so, not just yet....) or not is a matter of opinion and perception, but the document itself, as well as the federalist/antifederalist papers (the working notes of the constitution, more or less) is abundantly clear on that issue.

Free Speech is Free Speech, that means puttin up with folks spouting stuff ya don't agree with, which has seemed to slip right by most folks these days.. you won't hear me callin for someone to apply some duct-tape to Ann Coulter or Pat Robertsons mouth, they got every right to say what they please - cause in order to demand that right for myself, to demand that it be *universal*, it means I must then accept that others can do so, too.

S'what free speech is all about, and some folks seem to have forgotten that.

-Frem

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