Psychic abilities and phenomena: the scientific/skeptic analysis by chrisisall

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Psychic abilities and phenomena: the scientific/skeptic analysis

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:49
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Friday, August 25, 2006 10:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
But when it happens over and over again over the course of 40 years I'd have to be a fool not to take it seriously.

Hey dude, you're at least 40 years old? I thought you were younger for some reason.

I have a friend who has had psychic/paranormal experiences all his life. He feels very lonely about it, doesn't know what to make of it, has never met anyone else who has had similar experiences. Is there a support group anywhere I can point him to?

And another thing. Have you in your 40 years had any umm... attacks by "shadows" that caused actual physical injury? Or heard of anyone who has had them? My friend has shown me his injuries. It's freaky.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Friday, August 25, 2006 1:05 PM

HKCAVALIER

Hey CTS,

I just turned 40 last year. Still pretty idealistic, work hard to keep curmudgenliness at bay.

Support groups? That's tough. I'd advise him to stay away from the internet for support. He may have better luck at a psychic fair if he can find any where he lives. He could go to a tarot reader, get a reading. Readers, if they're at all legit will recognize another sensative, might have just the kind of information your friend needs. If he feels up to it, he can just lay his cards on the table (so to speak

) at one of these fairs, speak to someone his intuition tells him is trustworthy about his dilemma, and with a little luck he'll have a whole crowd of motherly psychics taking him under their collective wing.

As to the "shadows," I've seen one tear a woman's legs up pretty bad. If your friend has such a thing attacking him he's got a serious problem. He'll have to fight the thing.

You might try asking him some questions to start with, like, "Do you want these attacks to stop?" See if you can get him to say yes or no.

Ya see, at the level at which these things tend to have power over us, the universe is consensual. At some point he consciously or unconsciously allowed this thing (these things?) to manifest.

The point of the question is to get him to say yes. Whether he believs it or not, saying yes will begin a process of reprogramming his subconscious to weaken the thing's hold on him.

Once he says yes, ask him, "Do you think it's possible to free yourself of these attacks?" Again, you gotta get him to say yes.

You'd be amazed the lengths to which people with his kind of afliction will go so they can remain tied to these critters. They often have a lot of their lives and a lot of themselves invested in the attacks.

For some, the attacks are proof that they're not crazy, that something is "really happening" to them (and unfortunately, driving them crazy in the bargain). For some, the attacks make them feel special or singled out by the Universe for extraordinary things. For these folks, to lose the afliction is like losing a part of what makes them who they are.

All of which is to say that it might be tough to get your friend even to admit that he wants the attacks to stop and that he can be free of them. If you can get him to say these things, loudly, in a full voice, then he might be able to rid himself of this demon without any further outside aid. If not, if he starts babbling about how little you understand or how talking to you about it could endanger you in some way, then his problem is more serious and he'll need to get more help.

It would be a lot easier for me to figure out what has to be done, if I could see your friend in person. I live in Seattle. Where's he located?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, August 25, 2006 1:30 PM

CANTTAKESKY

HK,

He's out east but he does travel. Could I maybe email you offlist? I feel a little weird talking about my friend's private life here on the board. If so, you can reach me at canttakesky@att.net. Thanks.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Saturday, August 26, 2006 6:29 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
It seems to me, Finn, that you're expecting a level of certainty from psychic perception that goes beyond mear sensory experience. When was the last time you misheard what someone said? Or thought you saw someone you knew only to find out as you got closer that they were a stranger? Do these occurances invalidate the sense involved? Of course not. Are they purely coincidental? Prolly not; perhaps you were expecting an answer other than what you heard or perhaps you wanted to see the person you thought you saw, so your mind took the data supplied by your eyes and jumped to conclusions.

Of course, I am expecting a level of certainty that goes beyond anecdotal evidence. Partly because this is the thread for the non-anecdotal arguments, but also because anecdotal evidence is what it is, and it is not reliable. I’ve often said that if eye-witness reports were reliable, the Lock Ness monster would be a fact. That’s not to say that I think you’re not telling the truth, but that the likelihood of your being wrong is strong enough that I need some kind of independent corroboration, because I have no personal psychic experiences for us to develop any kind of common frame of reference.

Maybe you’re right. Maybe your brain is far more developed then mine and like a chimp defecating on a Calculus book, I simply can’t grasp what you’ve seen. I don’t deny that possibility, although I think it unlikely. I have never denied and actively believe that there is far more to the universe then I perceive, yet I also can’t deny that without a common frame of reference, it could just as likely be nothing more then your imagination.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Saturday, August 26, 2006 11:55 AM

HKCAVALIER

Yay Finn! Thanks for replying after all these months.

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Of course, I am expecting a level of certainty that goes beyond anecdotal evidence. Partly because this is the thread for the non-anecdotal arguments, but also because anecdotal evidence is what it is, and it is not reliable. I’ve often said that if eye-witness reports were reliable, the Lock Ness monster would be a fact. That’s not to say that I think you’re not telling the truth, but that the likelihood of your being wrong is strong enough that I need some kind of independent corroboration, because I have no personal psychic experiences for us to develop any kind of common frame of reference.

I can't argue with you there at all, Finn. I wish I had the independent corroboration you seek, but this stuff has always heretofor elluded the corroborators.

Quote:
Maybe you’re right. Maybe your brain is far more developed then mine and like a chimp defecating on a Calculus book, I simply can’t grasp what you’ve seen.

I wish ya wouldn't make this an inferiority/superiority clash between us. I don't think I'm smarter than you. I've known all kinds of smart, brilliant, highly educated people who were thoroughly closed to what I'm talking about, and I've known pretty simple folks who took it all for granted; just as some born again Christians are geniuses and some Atheists are fools.

As I've theorized in another thread, http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=15510 psychic awareness could prolly be thought of as an atavism that has been largely bred out of our species, if it weren't for the fact that children seem to have a natural affinity at least for the thought patterns associated with psychic awareness. Also, psychic awareness tends to be a given among the aboriginal peoples across the globe, regardless of geographical isolation. I can't help thinking that our Scientific Materialism is somewhat culture-bound.

There is no doubt in my mind that Western Scientific Materialism has given us great power over the material world; that our capacity to ignore the higher resonances of reality here in the West has allowed us to focus on dominating the planet utterly.

What the aboriginal elders tell us over and over is that our lack of sensativity to the Earth's rythms and needs, means that we pay a great spiritual price for our dominion. Each new breakthrough in science and technology brings with it a sense of moral danger to the species, as if we know we're not "ready" to truly take responsability for these marvels. Western Scientific Materialism is solely responsible for harnassing the greatest destructive power the world has ever known. Our ability to prevent our ultimate destruction as a species can seem pretty tenous at times.

Quote:
I have never denied and actively believe that there is far more to the universe then I perceive, yet I also can’t deny that without a common frame of reference, it could just as likely be nothing more then your imagination.

Sadly, as we move into the 21st Century our culture seems more and more cut off from my frame of reference. Our connection to the aboriginal peoples, to the Earth beneath our feet, to wild nature, even to our children becomes more and more mediated by impersonal technology with every passing day.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:04 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
I can't argue with you there at all, Finn. I wish I had the independent corroboration you seek, but this stuff has always heretofor elluded the corroborators.

Not sure I can agree really, parapsychology using scientific techniques have shown odds against chance of trillions to one, with success rates equal to any human endeavor.

Because they're not one hundred percent successful every time and it’s a subject that 'isn't real science' it's dismissed. Like saying Babe Ruth never played baseball because he didn't get a home run every time.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:17 PM

HKCAVALIER

All you need is one failure to confirm the status quo and calm the complacent and incurious.

Desire is such a dominating factor in human endeavor. We study what we want to study, challenge what we want to challenge, accept what it pleases us to accept, and ignore anything that doesn't fit. That is, until reality breaks down the door and demands our attention, but that seldom happens in a laboratory environment outside of the movies.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:49 PM

ANTIMASON

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:

Like I said, I have no problem with people believing in God, Flying Spaghetti Monsters or ghosts. I do object when they demand me to believe the same or insult, demean and attack those who do not share their beliefs. Obviously that has been the traditional role of religion (and still is in America) but lately those who believe in the paranormal are taking that role.

who "hurt" you Simonwho?

the door swings both way; ive been insulted and critisized more for being a christan then i ever was when i was agnostic. Jesus' message is that of love and tolerance... if it is misconstrued, it is because Mans nature is imperfect, and all people can be harsh and hypocritical; show me someone who isnt?

understand our goal is to conform to the likeness of God; how would we know what "God" would want of us? this was the purpose of Yeshua(Jesus), for God to manifest in the flesh, and he was murdered..because man is sinfull and imperfect.

show me the scriptures where Jesus condones bad behavior? otherwise, dont hold what one individual did to you against all of us; when the day comes, we will all get what we deserve, believer or not; and i feel this wto be true with all my heart and soul

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