Put it in perspective. What's your take on it? by BarnStormer

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Put it in perspective. What's your take on it?

POSTED BY: BARNSTORMER
UPDATED: Thursday, July 28, 2005 17:05
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Monday, July 25, 2005 10:50 AM

Be warned that the below meanderings of my mind are just that and only that.

OK, I started thinking (always a dangerous event) about the state of the worlds events and how the people of the world are driving the issues of the day. More accurately, how the minority of the people are driving some issues.

It reminded me strongly of thoughts I had long long ago, concerning race relations and the KKK. These thoughts in turn were prompted by a Junior High School assignment.

To make a long and labourious story short, some of the things I came away with due to that assignment were these nuggets (in JHS simple form)

1. Racism is stupid (already had a good grasp on that one before the assignment).

2. Racists for the most part need someone or some thing to blame their problems on.

3. Racism is past on by family and peer groups.

4. Racists of the extreme variety are a vast minority of the population as a whole.

Back in the late sixties, early seventies, the population of the U.S. was something like 180 million people. The total KKK membership was said to be between 5000 to 8000 people (read assholes). That gives a percentage of racist assholes in the U.S. in 1970 as .0027% of the total population.

Now, the question is, how many real extremist Islamic terrorists are in the world? In 2003, it was estimated that the total Muslim population of the world was about 1.5 billion. If you say there are about 40000 Islamic extremists in the world, that gives a percentage of racist assholes in the Muslim community of about .0026%.

So, it seems that the nuggets of truth hold up even after all these years.

1. Racism is stupid (and it still is).

2. Racists for the most part need someone or some thing to blame their problems on.

3. Racism is past on by family and peer groups.

4. Racists of the extreme variety are a vast minority of the population as a whole.

It's to bad that all the assholes of the world have'nt learned lesson number 1 yet.

Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.

BarnStormer

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Monday, July 25, 2005 6:22 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

I'm not so sure I agree with all of the specific numbers you’ve used. I think the number of extremists among the Muslim population, particularly in the Middle East and Africa may be much larger then you've assumed, but I do believe that the number is very small compared to the total population of Muslims. I think that is a safe assumption, depending on your definition of a racist.

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Monday, July 25, 2005 8:03 PM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by BarnStormer:
It's to bad that all the assholes of the world have'nt learned lesson number 1 yet.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, July 25, 2005 10:23 PM

HKCAVALIER

Interesting numbers. Here's a thought. there are an awful lot of very racist people in this country not involved with the KKK. People with really disgusting opinions about other races than their own who will never lynch anyone or burn a cross. Doesn't make them any less racist, just means they're not a political threat.

This is my point about Muslims. There are obviously a lot of people in the Middle East who hate everything America stands for who will never embark on a jihad or blow up anything. Just because we are hated doesn't mean that the hate will lead to violent geo-political action.

See what I mean? If hate automatically lead to murderous violence, George W. would have been assassinated several times over by now by all those lefties who hate his guts.

Now here's a question. Take those unafilliated racists I mentioned, the non-KKK folks. What do you think they would do, if say an African army came over here and started destroying hospitals and bombing the heck out of them. Now, we know they already hate black people, so you can imagine that they might fight them gladly and with zeal. The KKK supplies them with guns and teaches them some dirty tricks and they eat it up. My question then is this: are they fighting the African invaders because they're black or because they're bombing the heck out of them? Have they joined the KKK? And also, how do you think these racist folks would answer these questions?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Tuesday, July 26, 2005 2:19 AM

CITIZEN

Remember that wasn't always true. For most of our history racism has been the norm not the exception.
I think with point 2 you might be mixing up cause and effect.
Apart from that, yeah racism is stupid.

A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her.
--W.C. Fields

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Tuesday, July 26, 2005 5:59 AM

BARNSTORMER

As I said, this was just the meanderings of my mind at the time. I'm not even sure why I posted them here.

The perspective I'm talking about is that in every way, the Islamic Extremists of the world are very similiar to the KKK, Skin heads, Aryan Nation, White Supremists, or any other radical group in the world who hates another group of people for no other reason but they want to hate.

Small minded people. If they were'nt so virulantly murderous, they would just be pathetic stupid people.

Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.

BarnStormer

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Tuesday, July 26, 2005 8:27 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by BarnStormer:
The perspective I'm talking about is that in every way, the Islamic Extremists of the world are very similiar to the KKK, Skin heads, Aryan Nation, White Supremists, or any other radical group in the world who hates another group of people for no other reason but they want to hate.

Small minded people. If they were'nt so virulantly murderous, they would just be pathetic stupid people.

Your point is a good one. These Islamic fascists are indeed a bigoted and fate-inspired group who see themselves as racially and morally superior and not only right in murdering innocent people but righteous. They are definitely ethically aligned with those Nazis who saw their genocide of Jews as an honorable feat. Islamo-fascists seek to recreate the world, starting with the Middle East, in the image of a totalitarian theocratic feudalism where fear, hate and poverty reign above all else for the vast majority of the people. Their interests are not nationalism and independence, but power and tyranny. I think that the vast majority of the people we are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are indeed these kinds of people.

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Tuesday, July 26, 2005 9:05 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Is racism 'stupid'? I don't know. My view is that it's based in fear, which is fueled by ignorance and gross over generalization. I'd say it's more irrational than 'stupid' There very well may be a evolutionary basis for fearing that which isn't like you, but IMO, we as humans are at the stage which we should leave such concepts in the past.

I'm a bit uncomfortable when folks try to equate Islamic terrorist to the KKK of the United States. There will always be some racist punks among us, I've come to accept that. But per the KKK, or any such group, they'll never gain wide, main stream support. If there were to be any significant rise in KKK activity, I'm sure that the general public would join with Local,State authorities and quickly act so as to stamp them out. Granted, Eric Rudolph was of the same ilk, but his nut case act didn't spur on any copy cats to carry on his cause. Some folks may have helped him, but for the most part, they ignored him.

In great contrast, the Islamo Fascist are truly a global threat. Well financed and educated, these few are able to draw upon thousands to do their bidding. The billion or so who follow Islam are virtually silent when it comes to bombings in Egypt, Spain, London or Bali. Where it was the 'white Christians' themselves who helped neuter the KKK, we've yet to see anywhere near the same sort of activity from the vast majority of Muslims.

And yes, despite the lack of coverage from the main stream press, there is racism in these Islamo Fascist. Seems not all suicide bombers are treated equally. But that's just a side issue. Primarily, their driving force is more culture and religion than anything.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, July 26, 2005 10:03 AM

BARNSTORMER

Yes, well said.

In the case of the Muslim extremists, Family and peer group (and religous authority) seem to add the most fuel to this brand of racism.

By the way, I used the word racism but in reality what this is is more rightly called "Cultural Intolerance" or "Violent Xenophobia".

Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.

BarnStormer

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Tuesday, July 26, 2005 10:14 AM

HKCAVALIER

Maybe this is on topic, maybe this is not. We're all just musing here, anyway:

Does the fact that there is no Hitler/Musellini/Stalin equivolent in the current geo-political situation mean anything to you all (Gino, be nice, Bush does not count

)? Seems to me, these figures with their cults of personality were central to the power of their fascisms. When these boys died, so did their regimes. One of the problems I've alway had with comparing Hussein to these men is that he lacked an ideology to inspire the people. He was, after all, an enemy of Islam. He had gone to war with Iran. He was soooooo not a part of this supposed Islamo-fascist movement.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Tuesday, July 26, 2005 3:35 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I had a roomate from Sicily who looked for all the world like he was from the Middle East. One night while walking home from work, a few teenage boys decided to lob a big rock at his head before they took off yelling "F*kcing Arab" (right after Iran started). These were kids who will probably never join the KKK or any overtly racist group, but they sure were loaded with hate and ready to patriotically engage in personal violence against the 'wrong people'. This is the very quality dubya seeks to nuture. It's a fine line between this and racism.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Thursday, July 28, 2005 4:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
This is the very quality dubya seeks to nuture. It's a fine line between this and racism.

Care to elaborate? Perhaps a specific example would suffice. I fail to see how some punk kid's ignorance can in any way be attributed to Bush. If anything, Bush has taken great strides to NOT point out the true identity of the Islamo Fascist, so as to not step on too many toes. 'Evil doers', he says, HA! I've heard Tony Blair make brilliant remarks as to just who the real monsters are, where they're from , what they're being taught, and why they're such a danger. W has far too much worry from the P.C. Nazis to dare call the Islamo terrorist out for who they are.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, July 28, 2005 5:05 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
This is the very quality dubya seeks to nuture. It's a fine line between this and racism.

Care to elaborate? Perhaps a specific example would suffice. I fail to see how some punk kid's ignorance can in any way be attributed to Bush.

Rue didn't say that Bush caused this, only that Bush is aiming at nuturing this "quality." If I'm getting my assumed timeframe proper, I believe that this happened pre-Bush (right Rue?).

Perhaps you should re-read the post with a "trying to understand" mentality, instead of a "tying to find something to attack" mentality.

Oh yes, rasism == stupid.

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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