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The private sector is doing fine - Obama

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Friday, July 13, 2012 04:08
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Monday, June 11, 2012 4:36 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

On another matter, isn't it sad how everything is so black and white to our righties?





Yes it is.

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Monday, June 11, 2012 4:43 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Gawd, what a terrible makeup job! Poor Star Trek, it really labored under some archaic constraints back then, didn't it?

Nonetheless, yup, righton.

It's been friggin' HOT here the past two days--okay, hot for a Northern Californian (as in 89). I'm off to try and find somewhere cool enough to have dinner, 'cuz it was too hot to eat last night. Enjoy! ;o)


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Monday, June 11, 2012 5:31 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Okay, prize for first guffaw of the day--even unintentional ones count:
Quote:

This was a monumental moment in this President's term.
Don'tcha just love it tho'? I say, I say, MONUMENTAL!! I'll bet we hear about it for the next ten years, and the history books will be replete with it "Obama said the private sector was doing fine, when it was only doing BETTER than it had been!" -- major shock. No mention in history books of ending Iraq War, of killing Bin Laden (or any of the others who've been taken out), or ANYTHING else...just that Obama made a gaff about the economy. Wow. I can't wait...




It was such a huge, MONUMENTAL deal that even Romney said the remarks were taken out of context.





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 2:09 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


So, to the original point...


Is the economy doing fine, or is it in trouble?

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 3:32 AM

CAVETROLL


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
Obama saying the private sector is doing fine is the same, and just as significant as McCain saying that the fundamentals of the economy are in good shape, way back in 2008. I remember the media dogpile on McCain over that gaffe. Obama is just as deserving of a media dogpile over the same mistake in 2012.




Do you remember which side of that dogpile Rappy was on? Did he support McCain back then, and insist that the economy was "on fire", by any chance?



No, I don't recall, but it should be somewhere in the archived threads.

But I think both men made the same mistake. From where they're looking at things, with peers in the private sector of banking, insurance and investment, the "economy" is doing fine. Their peers are not hurting = things must be okay. If they were hanging out and talking to Jane and Joe Six Pack, they might have a different view on things.

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 8:11 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
So, to the original point...


Is the economy doing fine, or is it in trouble?





So, Rappy... No answers for a very simple question, huh?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 12:23 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


He didn't say the "economy", he said the "private sector". One has only to look at the facts and figures to know some parts of the private sector are doing just DANDY! Look how the pay of CEOs has gone up, bonuses (however they call them) whether Wall Streeters lose money or make it, CORPORATE PROFITS (!), to know Obama was partly right and what he was trying to say. Major parts of the private sector are doing just fine, while in the public sector, firemen, teachers, cops and others are losing their pensions, paying more for healthcare (as are all of us, except of course Congress), or losing their jobs entirely. Cities are hurting, states are hurting, municipalities are hurting, and ACTUAL small businesses are hurting (not those who get CALLED "small business" but are actually huge corporations). But the big guys, on Wall Street, in huge corporations, many are doing better than ever.

Everyone KNOWS what he was saying, except those kept in perpetual ignorance by FauxNews and people like Raptor who worship wealth and capitalism in any form.

As to how the "private sector" is doing:
Quote:

Corporate Profits Have Skyrocketed Over Last Three Years | After dipping during the Great Recession, corporate profits have now skyrocketed past their pre-recession levels, Business Insider’s Joe Weisenthal notes. After-tax profits and corporate profits as a share of gross domestic product (GDP) are now higher than they were in the middle of the last decade, after a similar vertical spike. Despite massive profit gains, however, corporations are adding more jobs overseas than they are in the United States and paying one of the lowest effective tax rates in the developed world. http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/06/01/493870/corporate-profits-s
kyrocket/
a look:

Quote:

•Banner number of companies beating expectations. So far, 81% of companies have beaten expectations, says John Butters at FactSet. "That's unusually high," topping the 72% of companies that, on average, beat estimates the past four quarters.

•Strength from sectors closely linked to the economy. Nearly all the corporate profit growth is being driven by three sectors — technology, financials and industrials — with 23.4%, 12.9% and 10.4% growth, respectively, Butters says.

•Evidence companies are beyond just cutting costs. Companies have reported 6.2% revenue growth, says S&P Capital IQ. While down from 10% revenue growth in the fourth quarter, it's still healthy at this point of the economic cycle, says Jack Ablin of Harris Private Bank. http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/earnings/story/2012-04-26/corp
orate-profit/54632048/1
while earnings have gone down and families are worth 40% less...

Meanwhile, to Romney and his guys, more teachers, firefighters, cops, etc., NEED to lose their jobs:
Quote:

Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign isn’t backing off the candidate’s claim that America needs fewer teachers, firefighters, and police officers. Instead, former New Hampshire Gov. John Sununu (R), a top Romney campaign surrogate, backed Romney’s call this morning, telling MSNBC that changes in technology and population shifts have made layoffs of teachers and public safety officials necessary.

Romney’s original comments left little room for interpretation. President Obama “says we need more firemen, more policemen, more teachers,” Romney said Friday. “Did he not get the message of Wisconsin? The American people did. It’s time for us to cut back on government and help the American people.” But to Sununu, the comments highlighted a “real issue” that showed Romney’s “wisdom,” he told MSNBC’s Chris Jansing today:
Quote:

SUNUNU: Let me respond as a taxpayer, not as a representative of the Romney campaign. There are municipalities, there are states where there is flight of population. And as the population goes down, you need fewer teachers. As technology contributes to community security and dealing with issues that firefighters have to deal with, you would hope that you can, as a taxpayer, see the benefits of the efficiency and personnel that you get out of that.

JANSING: But even if there’s movement to the suburbs, teachers and policemen are needed somewhere. Do you think that taxpayers of this country want to hear fewer firefighters, fewer teachers, fewer police officers, from a strategic standpoint?

SUNUNU: If there’s fewer kids in the classrooms, the taxpayers really do want to hear there will be fewer teachers. [...] You have a lot of places where that is happening. You have a very mobile country now where things are changing. You have cities in this country in which the school population peaked ten, 15 years ago. And, yet the number of teachers that may have maintained has not changed. I think this is a real issue. And people ought to stop jumping on it as a gaffe and understand there’s wisdom in the comment.

The facts of many of the layoffs don’t back up Sununu’s claims. Classrooms are busting at the seams because there are fewer teachers, and cities and towns across the country are closing entire public safety departments due to budget cuts. And, as Jansing noted, even if the population shifts were a legitimate argument, teachers and public safety officials are still needed where the population moves.

Federal, state, and local governments have laid off more than 700,000 workers since Obama took office. Had that not happened, the unemployment rate would be a full point lower and the economic recovery would be stronger.
To Romney and his campaign surrogates, however, those job losses are a step in “the right direction.” http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/06/11/497293/sununu-romney-publi
c-sector/
] "Wisdom" my ass...


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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 5:35 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Niki, the right wing of this country seems to have a MONUMENTAL issue with the president even saying that "the private sector" is doing fine.

Which is why I keep asking - and Rappy keeps dodging and refusing to give a straight yes or no answer - if he really thinks the economy is in trouble.


It is quite obvious that the GOP-led House of Representatives doesn't think the economy is in any trouble. If they did, perhaps they'd spend less time trying to outlaw abortion and contraception, and more time working on legislation that would help jobs and help the middle class. But they clearly aren't interested in doing any of that, so they obviously feel that the private sector, as Obama said, is doing "just fine." Their actions speak far louder than his words.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 5:39 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Tell my parents how well private ma and pa businesses are doing today....

A hint beforehand....

Come to my step-dad with REAL work to do on furniture restoration before you try.

He's 2nd generation Mexican American, and has been all but outcasted from his family since my mom is the second "white" woman he married.

He speaks better English than half the friends I have today, but his old family claims that they think he thinks he thinks he's a second class citizen for it.



There business would be doing just fine if their rent hadn't increased over 200% in the last 10 years, way above our supposed accepted doubling of costs over 20 years with inflation.....

I wish he was based in Indiana where I am and where taxes are reasonalbe, but he has no clients out there and would have to start all over, and he's already retirement age....



Maybe that's my problem....

I was raised in Crook County IL....

The most EVIL place in the states, as far as I can tell....

Everything about Lake Co IN seems the exact opposite.....

Sure, Gary, IN has to be taken care of, so there is some mild corruption, but it's not as organized as Crook County politics....

Come next week, I'll be relieved of a lot of my property tax burden because I'm thourough about it.

Crook County would just piss on my claims and my face if I came to them with the same report....



And you idiots voted a Crook County, IL, untested politician into the White House. No wonder he was bending over and taking Mid-East boners in his ass while his wife was removing soda machines and his daughters were being cute all over TV.




Chris should understand this the most....

Obama wanted to be Spiderman, but he didn't protect "Mary Jane" at all.

If he could be anything, he could have been "Iron Man".

The only reason Iron Man came out was because he had nobody to care about and nothing to lose.....

Obama did the same, but he's got a wife and kids....

That's not any excuse for being a bad president...

Obama is the worst president we've EVER had..... Jimmy Carter included....




I HATE Obama for making me say that he is the worst president after I spent over 5 years before saying that GWB was the worst before him.....



Bottom line, the private sector is fine.... as long as you have backers.

Ma and Pa shops are closing down...

If my parents didn't have a boat and a summer home to sell they'd be out of business.... They now owe more on their own house than they did 19 years ago when I was 13 as well....

GWB and Obama raped the working man for 12 years....


Fuck GWB

Fuck Obama

Osama was fake

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 6:48 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Obama is the worst president we've EVER had.....

Naw, still Dubya. He spent our trillions on what should have been a simple hit on Saddam (if it was even necessary at all) that the SF dudes did recently with Bin Laden.



Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 11:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Kwickie,

Why do you ask if the economy is " in trouble "? No one is phrasing the situation like that, save you. The President said it absolutely isn't doing fine ( he said the private sector , which shows his idiocy )

The economy and private sector are NOT " doing fine ". 8.2 ( or more ) % unemployment isn't 'fine'. It's pretty piss poor. Which is why Obama will be a one and done President, if the American people are wise enough.

No one's 'dodging' you silly ass questions. Some of us have real lives.

( And nice lie there, saying the GOP are trying to outlaw abortion AND contraception. Why even toss that red herring into the discussion? Sure, there are those IN the GOP would like that to be the law of the land, but the party itself has no interest in pursuing that as an agenda. It'd be like saying the Dems want to take over the oil companies, and do away with private ownership... Silly, right ? )



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 1:32 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

The economy and private sector are NOT " doing fine ".

But parts of the private sector are doing better than they ever have. That's a boggle, eh?

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 1:54 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Kwickie,

Why do you ask if the economy is " in trouble "? No one is phrasing the situation like that, save you. The President said it absolutely isn't doing fine ( he said the private sector , which shows his idiocy )

The economy and private sector are NOT " doing fine ". 8.2 ( or more ) % unemployment isn't 'fine'. It's pretty piss poor. Which is why Obama will be a one and done President, if the American people are wise enough.

No one's 'dodging' you silly ass questions. Some of us have real lives.

( And nice lie there, saying the GOP are trying to outlaw abortion AND contraception. Why even toss that red herring into the discussion? Sure, there are those IN the GOP would like that to be the law of the land, but the party itself has no interest in pursuing that as an agenda. It'd be like saying the Dems want to take over the oil companies, and do away with private ownership... Silly, right ? )




Well, it'd be like that if the Dems had introduced hundreds of bills to outlaw private ownership and take over oil companies.

Have they? Do you have cites to back such a claim? Of course you don't. You never do. You like throwing out wild-ass idiotic claims and then running away like the troll you are.

Your "real life" doesn't seem to stop you from posting all over other threads here, even while you keep dodging the question.

Meanwhile, where are the jobs the GOP promised?






"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 3:06 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Obama is the worst president we've EVER had.....

Naw, still Dubya. He spent our trillions on what should have been a simple hit on Saddam (if it was even necessary at all) that the SF dudes did recently with Bin Laden.



Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives



Haha....

Yes, Chris....

A simple hit, on a simple man....


The way I see it, neither you or I would have been on board with either GWB's or his Father's goal of ousting a man from "office" in such a foreign country, especially dating back to the days when there was ZERO chance they could have been a threat to us.

(Besides OIL.... right?????)



The way I see things today????

Good for you GWB.... avenging your father.... removing the single "sane" dictator in that sector that had control even though it wasn't control at the teachings of "Allah".

Good for you Obama, removing the Bogy Man the Bush Administration created out of thin air and dumping a body bag full of guns and ammo or anything else that could have sunk to the bottom in that grainy footage that BigFoot would have begged to have.....





BTW... Bush actually only spent Billions on that. I know we mindlessly throw the word "Trillion" around now, but Obama is the first president to make Trillion a precedent.

:)

I knew what I was doing at my job, and I got Six-Sigma'd....

There are over 10 million idiots working Government jobs who I could run circles around.



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Thursday, June 14, 2012 4:09 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

BTW... Bush actually only spent Billions on that. I know we mindlessly throw the word "Trillion" around now, but Obama is the first president to make Trillion a precedent.




Jack, do you actually get paid to be this wrong this often? Bush only *admitted* to billions, but the actual cost of Iraq was far more, $3 trillion or more, according to many sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War#U.S._war_c
osts


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008
030702846.html


http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/new-economy/2011/1025/Iraq-war-will-
cost-more-than-World-War-II



I know you enjoy living in a fact-free environment, but please don't try to pass off your idiocy as fact.

Also, Bush's little Medicare Part D experiment (which was totally unfunded when passed) is estimated to add $16T to the debt.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2010/11/19/Why-Republicans-Arent
-Serious-About-the-Deficit.aspx#page1


http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/12/the-fiscal-legacy-of-geor
ge-w-bush
/


The fact that you spent the Bush years with your head up your ass don't mean that Obama was the first President to ever spend trillions. Hell, even Reagan did that, practically TRIPLING the national debt, but conservative idiots like you still line up to drop to your knees and suck his dead old cock.


ETA: Yes, that was probably a bit harsh. But seriously, Jack - you have gone from being just plain ignorant to being outright aggressively stupid in recent months in your blind hatred of Obama. Yeah, I've got issues with the guy, but I don't need to invent facts to blame him for; he's got plenty of REAL things for me to be pissed at him about!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 4:25 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

I don't need to invent facts to blame him for; he's got plenty of REAL things for me to be pissed at him about!


Hello,

This simple fact leaves me in constant amazement of many Obama critics. So much creative invention in their critiques, while overlooking more obvious errors.

Lately I've begun to wonder if the reason they rarely pursue his many plain failings is because those things that you and I may see as failings are some of the things they think he's doing right or things they're glad he's not pursuing with success or fervor.

One wonders at the apoplexy we might observe should a president ever powerfully pursue the agendas we hope for.

--Anthony





Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 4:36 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

BTW... Bush actually only spent Billions on that. I know we mindlessly throw the word "Trillion" around now, but Obama is the first president to make Trillion a precedent.




Jack, do you actually get paid to be this wrong this often? Bush only *admitted* to billions, but the actual cost of Iraq was far more, $3 trillion or more, according to many sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War#U.S._war_c
osts


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008
030702846.html


http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/new-economy/2011/1025/Iraq-war-will-
cost-more-than-World-War-II



I know you enjoy living in a fact-free environment, but please don't try to pass off your idiocy as fact.

Also, Bush's little Medicare Part D experiment (which was totally unfunded when passed) is estimated to add $16T to the debt.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2010/11/19/Why-Republicans-Arent
-Serious-About-the-Deficit.aspx#page1


http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/12/the-fiscal-legacy-of-geor
ge-w-bush
/


The fact that you spent the Bush years with your head up your ass don't mean that Obama was the first President to ever spend trillions. Hell, even Reagan did that, practically TRIPLING the national debt, but conservative idiots like you still line up to drop to your knees and suck his dead old cock.


ETA: Yes, that was probably a bit harsh. But seriously, Jack - you have gone from being just plain ignorant to being outright aggressively stupid in recent months in your blind hatred of Obama. Yeah, I've got issues with the guy, but I don't need to invent facts to blame him for; he's got plenty of REAL things for me to be pissed at him about!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy



Sorry man... Trillion Dollar Debts, under a Single President, is Obama country....

I know there is inflation and all the like, but that's the truth.

I hated GWB for one reason above all others, and that was his spending, even above his imperialism....

There is ZERO chance you could claim that GWB spent in his entire 2 terms what Obama over spent in one term....

Sorry Kwick...

Wish I could tell you somnething different

I knew what I was doing at my job, and I got Six-Sigma'd....

There are over 10 million idiots working Government jobs who I could run circles around.



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Thursday, June 14, 2012 4:49 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Nope. You're wrong, yet again.


Date Dollar Amount
09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79 ..14T
09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75 ..12T
09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49 ..10T
09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48 ......9T
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23 ......9T
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50 ......8T
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32 ......7T
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62 ......7T
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16 ......6T
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06 ......6T
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86 ......6T

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5
.htm






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Thursday, June 14, 2012 4:51 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Nope. You're wrong, yet again.


Date Dollar Amount
09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79 14T
09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75 12T
09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49 20T
09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48 9T
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23 9T
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50 8T
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32 7T
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62 7T
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16 6T
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06 6T


http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5
.htm

09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86






Nope... iKiki....

Right again....

Any president from henceforth can walk into a trillion dollar debt.

Obama was the first to make a yearly trillion dollar addition to the debt a reality, and that's what I meant.

Sorry for not keeping it up to speed with you. :)





EDITED TO ADD: True knit-pickers like you or Kwicko might point out that from 2007 to 2008 there was more than a trillion debt created. Although I could show graphs that show the other route, I'll even work with that....

Even as bad as the last 4 Obama years have been, not only have the TARP funds that evil GWB put into effect in his last year been largely paid off by now, but they also paid off dividends that have helped pay down Obama's spending....



I knew what I was doing at my job, and I got Six-Sigma'd....

There are over 10 million idiots working Government jobs who I could run circles around.



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Thursday, June 14, 2012 5:00 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Like I say, Jack, you're an idiot, and the funny thing is, you post things that are just so laughably, provably wrong, and you stand by them as if they are true even when you've been thoroughly debunked.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/how-did-we-get-to-trillion-dollar-def
icits
/




Oh, look - there's Bush, well beyond a trillion dollar deficit.

As to the claim that Obama spent more than Bush's entire 8 years, again, easily debunked.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/total_spending_2012USrn

Running the numbers by year, I come up with $30.4 trillion spent by Dubya, 24.2 by Obama.

I know you're not a math guy, but is 24 bigger than 30?



Next time you want to tell us all how much you really "know", maybe you should go do some research and find out if you really "know" what you "know". I realize looking things up and learning isn't your cup of tea - after all, you already know everything, right? But still, it would make you appear marginally less a fool in the future.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 5:04 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Nope. You're wrong, yet again.


Date Dollar Amount
09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79 14T
09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75 12T
09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49 20T
09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48 9T
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23 9T
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50 8T
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32 7T
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62 7T
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16 6T
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06 6T


http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5
.htm

09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86






Nope... iKiki....

Right again....

Any president from henceforth can walk into a trillion dollar debt.

Obama was the first to make a yearly trillion dollar addition to the debt a reality, and that's what I meant.

Sorry for not keeping it up to speed with you. :)



The first year that Dubya pasted a trillion-dollar deficit onto the debt, THAT was the first time you could say that yearly trillion-dollar deficits were a reality, because he'd just given you exactly that.

Quote:


EDITED TO ADD: True knit-pickers like you or Kwicko might point out that from 2007 to 2008 there was more than a trillion debt created. Although I could show graphs that show the other route, I'll even work with that....



I believe the word you're looking for is "nit". As in, "Jack, you're a nit-wit."




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 5:09 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


So says your posts here. I've already pre-dated your garbage with real facts over a month ago, hence the reason for my "post it and leave it thread"

It's so much easier to post "new" truths, isn't it Kwick?

Let the real truth fall in obscurity here....

Keep posting your BS here

I knew what I was doing at my job, and I got Six-Sigma'd....

There are over 10 million idiots working Government jobs who I could run circles around.



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Thursday, June 14, 2012 5:11 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Sorry man... Trillion Dollar Debts, under a Single President, is Obama country....




Aaaaaannnd ANOTHER swing and a miss. Sorry, Jack, but trillion dollar debts, under a single president, is Reagan country. He took us there 30 years ago, setting the trend for every so-called fiscal conservative to follow.

Quote:


I know there is inflation and all the like, but that's the truth.



So far this evening, you have yet to say one thing that's actually true.

Quote:


I hated GWB for one reason above all others, and that was his spending, even above his imperialism....



Really, only one reason you hated him? Patriot Act didn't put you off at all? Torture prisons? Unjust, illegal, and unnecessary wars? TSA bullshit? None of that pegged your meter at all, eh? Just his spending? Odd that you'd be so angry about his spending, and still get it so completely, gobstoppingly wrong at the same time. Seems if you were really angry about it, you might have read up on it or something. Too much to ask, I suppose.

Quote:


There is ZERO chance you could claim that GWB spent in his entire 2 terms what Obama over spent in one term....



As I've shown, there's quite a bit more than a ZERO chance I can claim that, and I can (and did) actually show my work to prove it.

Quote:


Sorry Kwick...



If you're apologizing for being so wrong on every single point you've brought up, apology accepted.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 5:17 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Adjusted for inflation today, perhaps you have a point, but nobody even knew the meaning of Trillion when Reagan was president, and his policies made the dollar strong for over 20 years after he left office.



As for the Patriot Act, it was one of my biggest gripes here. My paranoid self also had plenty to say about the REAL ID. Today, now that I'm "sane" it doesn't bother me that the back side of my Drivers Licenses looks like an MC Escher barcode, since I know that nobody gives two shits about me....

As far as that, and all of the torture prisons, unconstitutional wars, TSA bullshit and anything else GWB did, what can you say has changed in 4 years????


NOTHING

Just ask Libya....

Sorry Kwick....

One day or another, you're going to realize that your "side" is just as evil as the "side" you claim that I'm on.

As long as we keep taking "sides" we're all fucked.


I knew what I was doing at my job, and I got Six-Sigma'd....

There are over 10 million idiots working Government jobs who I could run circles around.



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Thursday, June 14, 2012 5:28 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Adjusted for inflation today, perhaps you have a point, but nobody even knew the meaning of Trillion when Reagan was president...




This, Jack. THIS is why I think you're a dolt. Like Wulfie and Rappy, you have this blindness, this idea that because YOU didn't know a thing, it was unknowable, and nobody else could have known it either.



I get that you don't pay attention or read much. But you insult the intelligence of others when you claim these things as universal truths just because you were willfully ignorant of facts. YOU didn't know the meaning of the word "trillion" when Reagan was president; others did. I did. But we were all told by fiscal conservatives not to worry about it, because wealth was being created that would trickle down and we'd all be prosperous because of the spending.

Was that idea WRONG?! Is that what you're saying? Trickle-down is a scam?


Who'da thunk it?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 5:33 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


6ix

It boggles my mind. You have an internet connection - and apparently zero interest or ability to use it to actually learn something. You have a spell checker - I presume it gave you the word 'knit' - and are so utterly devoid of understanding that you didn't realize it was spelled right but the wrong word. You CLAIM to be a person of superior intelligence, diligence and ability - yet your every post screams you are none of that with its illogic, lack of research, and sheer number of errors.

I'm not faulting you. If I was out of work for so long I'd have to tell myself something to make myself feel better. If I imagine your story, it's that you're reacting very strongly to the threat to your ego that being out of work for so long creates. Plus I think you are actually a sensitive person, and the threat posed by our society, which is geared to the benefit of the wealthy and which treats you or I as less than meaningless dust beneath the juggernaut, is acute in your mind. At least, that is the story I tell myself at this point.



So, when does your new job start?

This might be fun - it’s the The Highly Sensitive Person Test:

http://www.hsperson.com/pages/test.htm

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Friday, June 15, 2012 3:27 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


There never was any " actual " surplus. But why am I wasting my time telling you this?


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, June 15, 2012 5:42 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Really getting weird. It's almost like Six has morphed into Raptor, the way he's going.
Quote:

Trillion Dollar Debts, under a Single President, is Obama country
Say whaaaa?
Quote:

There is ZERO chance you could claim that GWB spent in his entire 2 terms what Obama over spent in one term
Amusing...Bush "spent" but Obama "over spent". No prejudice there, no siree. People post facts, figures and charts, and you say you proved them wrong some times ago, without providing facts. If you want to refute facts, put up facts. I realize it's the right's talking point, and is all over the internet--which is I guess why you parrot it.
Quote:

what can you say has changed in 4 years????
That's insane! You really, truly think we're worse off now than we were under Bush??Or even as bad off as when Bush left office??
Quote:

The economy had already lost 4.5 million jobs before President Barack Obama took office in January 2009, with job losses that month alone surging to 818,000. Economic contraction had also accelerated, reaching a staggering 8.9 percent annualized decline in the fourth quarter of 2008—the worst in 60 years.

In February 2009, Obama enacted the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, and the pace of economic contraction and job loss immediately decelerated. As the stimulus ramped up, sustained economic growth took hold in mid-2009, and job growth resumed early in 2010—with 3.5 million jobs added since February 2010. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates that without the Recovery Act, unemployment would have averaged roughly 10.7 percent in 2010, instead of 9.6 percent.

The Recovery Act was intended to jump-start the economy and avert a depression, not to restore full employment. The $831 billion price tag, spread over more than four years, was dwarfed by the staggering loss in economic activity caused by the bursting of the $7 trillion housing bubble. After economic growth resumed, mass unemployment and underemployment compelled more fiscal support. However, passing additional economic support through Congress proved a Herculean task.

In December 2010, the administration negotiated a payroll tax cut, continuation of emergency unemployment benefits, and targeted tax credits to sustain the delicate recovery as the stimulus began winding down. Without this boost, the economy would actually have slipped back into contraction in the first quarter of 2011.

While the economy has improved greatly under Obama's stewardship, creating jobs for the millions of unemployed Americans who want to work remains imperative. In September 2011, Obama proposed the American Jobs Act, which would boost employment by roughly another 2 million jobs, according to numerous outside economists, including Mark Zandi. http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is-obama-turning-the-economy-around/
president-obamas-policies-revived-the-economy
Bush, we were in two wars; under Obama, we're out of one and pulling out of the other. Dow Jones

And there's this, if you had any desire to be logical:
Quote:

Upon taking office, Obama inherited two costly wars and an economy that had violently imploded just months before. The abrupt downturn brought an end to two venerable Wall Street firms, Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns, and it sent U.S. automakers General Motors (GM) and Chrysler into bankruptcy. Credit markets were frozen so solid that even creditworthy firms such as GE had difficulty borrowing. The government lent these firms trillions of dollars to keep them solvent.

Here's a review of where the economy has progressed, and where it continues to falter, under the current administration:

Stock Market: The S&P is up 50% since Obama took office. In 2008, the index fell 37%. Helping the rebound is the extension of the Bush-era tax cuts -- and the realization the government has made a profit on many of its bailouts. Still, the S&P is up only 2.3% over the past five years, leaving the retirement savings of many investors in tatters.

Taxes: Extending the Bush tax cuts added $700 billion to the deficit over the next decade and preserved the estate tax, which Republicans wanted to eliminate. But without these extensions, the average tax bill would have jumped by several thousand dollars. Research from Moody's found that rich people tend to save their tax cuts rather than spend them.

In December 2008, just before he entered office, the economy shed 673,000 jobs, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. In December 2010, the economy added 103,000 jobs, a figure that surprised some economists and sent the unemployment rate down to 9.4%, its lowest level since May of 2009. http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/01/25/whats-the-state-of-the-economy-
under-obama/
] After a rocky start to his presidency, in which the unemployment rate topped out at 10 percent nine months after he was inaugurated, the economy has steadily chugged back toward normalcy. The jobless rate has dropped .9 percent in the last year, sitting now at 8.1 percent

Since the beginning of 2011, things have looked better. After stagnating between 8.9 percent and 9.1 percent from January to October, 2010, unemployment has steadily dropped to 8.1 percent. The rate is .9 percent lower than it was last April. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/unemployment-politics-how
-much-economic-recovery-does-obama-need/
about another one?
Quote:

Newt Gingrich claims that “more people have been put on food stamps by Barack Obama than any president in American history.” He’s wrong. More were added under Bush than under Obama.

Gingrich goes too far to say Obama has put more on the rolls than other presidents. We asked the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Food and Nutrition service for month-by-month figures going back to January 2001. And they show that under President George W. Bush the number of recipients rose by nearly 14.7 million. Nothing before comes close to that.

And under Obama, the increase so far has been 14.2 million. To be exact, the program has so far grown by 444,574 fewer recipients during Obama’s time in office than during Bush’s. http://www.factcheck.org/2012/01/newts-faulty-food-stamp-claim/ is saying things are where they should be, absolutely nobody. But to say nothing has changed--wow, that really IS out there! Actually, what this is, is repetition of the right's talking points, given they repeat it over and over again. But it's not TRUE, it's bullshit. So if you want to just parrot the right, be our guest. But to say NOTHING has changed is absolutely insane.

Why, after saying he doesn't like the right OR the left, is Six so determined, every single time, to claim Obama was worse than Bush? It's fascinating...one can only imagine what TRUE hell we'd be in if Bush had been forced to deal with the consequences of what he did to the country. Because Obama hasn't fixed it all in three years, THAT makes him worse than Bush? Because he continued some of the most egregious policies BUSH PUT IN PLACE, how can that make him "worse"?? Because the situation is only slightly better than what Bush left us with, that makes Obama "worse"?

Just think where we'd be if the Republicans hadn't decided, the day Obama was inaugurated, to block anything and everything he proposed--including the things they'd been FOR until he came into office...

What world does Six live in, exactly? RappyWorld™, of course, silly me.


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Friday, June 15, 2012 7:01 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Just as a reminder that rappy has some 'splainin' to do!

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Saturday, June 16, 2012 3:14 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

What world does Six live in, exactly? RappyWorld™, of course, silly me.




So it would seem. Virtually all of Jack's "facts" come from exclusively right-wing sources, which would likely explain a lot of his blindness.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Saturday, June 16, 2012 4:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


6IX... So, I was reading your posts. You're obviously a bright guy, and I know you're TRYING to make rational decisions with your life: owning your house free and clear, putting your all into any job you get. The problem is, the system isn't rational. It doesn't reward hard work and savings like it says it does. What it really rewards is greed, speculation and connectedness.

And quite truthfully, altho Obama deserves some credit (Bernanke deserves more) for not letting the financial system fall into the abyss, he didn't really change much. Moving things towards "normalcy" is not a good thing, since "normal" got us into this mess in the first place. We really did need "hope and change" and we got neither. The only thing I can say is that Romney would be worse, altho that's setting the bar ridiculously low.

As you know, I'm not voting for Obama, even if Romney wins, so please don't take my statements as support of Obama. I just figure that even if Romney wins, one more round of lowering taxes for the rich just might wake some folks up to the idea that trickle-down doesn't work.

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Sunday, June 17, 2012 8:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Since I referenced this in rappy's other thread, I thought I'd bring it up here. For the sake of completeness. Rappy has made a number of statements which he's been challenged to prove. So far, he's run away from them.

Rappy, you get another chance to show that you really do know what you're talking about. Here are the statements that I specifically asked you to prove. I will read your reply attentively and objectively. However, please don't expect me to "buy into" your arguments on your say-so. Facts and figures will help your arguments, and so will a modicum of internal consistency. I may question you vigorously. Since you're all about facts, this shouldn't be too difficult.

Quote:

'Taxing the ultra wealthy , a lot '. ( As if they're not being taxed already.) Yeah, Carter tried that, how'd that work out for him ?
At last check, Carter had actually reduced taxes on the wealthy rather substantially in some categories and slightly in others. Any data to the contrary?

Quote:

It's because the govt spends TOO GOD DAMN FUCKING MUCH OF OUR MONEY! ... More like bridges to no where, airports for dead congressmen which don't serve anyone, excessive trips by the President making campaign appearances....
On this topic, you were asked what percentage of the budget went to the Pentagon. The idea was the compare the military budget to the amount of pork barrel spending. However, you never got back to this.

Quote:

Tax cuts got us OUT of a recession
You haven't even described WHICH recession, much less brought any facts to the table to demonstrate this.

Quote:

... the housing bubble bust ( mostly a Dem created issue )
Again, just a bald assertion, with no backup. So, care to back that up with ANY sort of information???

Quote:

The solution to our problem is NOT tax increases.
Again, no data whatsoever to back up this assertion.

Quote:

We can't tax our way out of this
I asked you rather pointedly to bring data to the discussion which would show what would happen if we were to tax the ultrawealthy by a substantial amount, and compare it to the deficit. I'm rather agnostic on this topic, so .... once again... data would be especially helpful.

thank you.

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Sunday, June 17, 2012 9:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh, BTW- I'll be checking in on this thread next weekend.

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Friday, June 22, 2012 4:00 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, here I am checking back on this thread a bit early to see if rappy has backed up ANY of his statements since he first posted them and ......

*crickets*


It seems rappy has a habit of making claims and then running away from them. I think I'm going to take a cue from 1KIKI and simply refer to this thread in any response to him.

OR, rappy, you could garner some credit for your arguments (or at least for your cajones) and try to back up your claims here.

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Friday, June 22, 2012 7:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Sig, Raptor doesn't deal with fact, you know that perfectly well. He "says things" without even KNOWING if they're true, but he heard them so they must be. He blithely tosses out his own prejudices, knowing he doesn't need to back them up and, if they're proven wrong, he need only wait for another post to come up where he can use them again. It's clearly his M.O., so hoping for a rational response...like this was a reasonable debate or something...never comes into it.

I think you're wasting your time, and we pretty much already know he won't back anything up, so there's nothing new there. Do enjoy harrassing him about it if it pleases you, you'll get no argument from me!

ETA: Just noticed something that's very funny. Obama said "the private sector is doing fine". Later he clarified it to say the ECONOMY isn't doing fine. Raptor started this whole thing by snarking at Obama for contradicting himself, but Obama didn't. He made a statement that the private sector (which has recovered and is making profits out the ying-yang) was doing okay, while the PUBLIC sector (which has laid off people enormously, thereby increasing unemployment, depriving communities of firement, police and teachers) is hurting...and later clarified it to say the ENTIRE ECONOMY is obviously not doing fine. Yet Raptor, like so many others (and as was so convenient for the right) saw the two statements as the same. Wow. Talk about inability to comprehend...

Then again, sigh, it IS Raptor...our quintessential right-wing swallower of right-wing propaganda, so I guess it shouldn't surprise me.


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Saturday, June 23, 2012 5:26 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Bumping this thread up to the top of the list from time to time wastes very little time (on my part).

So, what say you, rappy?

You've made a number of claims. Isn't it time to start supporting them? Or will you continue to run away from them, just like you've run away from everything else? (huh. And this from the guy who claims to be a hard-bitten Randist. Yanno rappy, there IS a difference between you and the fictional characters that you've modeled yourself on: They supposedly are able to think.)

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Sunday, June 24, 2012 1:35 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Sorry, but I disagree here with you Signy.... but..... Bernake is Alan Greenspan on Meth.....

Maybe he wasn't when he first sat down, but when he objected to smoking it everyone around him said "relax... it's good for you.... besides.... Greenspan was a coke addict!"

And so it was....



Don't EVER defend any member of the fake "Reserve" to me Signy. They're the largest multi-industrial corporation in the world, and they're completely untaxed.

Everything about them is illegal to our constitution.

I could go on, but I think anything else I posted would just contract from that fact.

Google it.


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Monday, June 25, 2012 5:01 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


6IX I agree with you. Perhaps you did not read or don't remember what I proposed as the real solution for this current worldwide clusterfuck...


1) Separate out "banks" and "insurances" from "investments", and regulate banks and insurances so that they will be once again safe places for your money.

2) Require 100% capitalization on all loans. This prevents banks from (literally) making money. Leave the money-making to the government, which is (last I checked) the ONLY authority empowered by Congress to issue currency.

3) Tax the ultra-wealthy...a lot. Recycle the money downwards. My vote on this would be to invest in healthcare, education and the environment... investments which the private sector is unlikely to make. Why recycle the money downwards? Because it doesn't matter HOW MUCH money you inject into the economy if you inject it at the top, it will stay at the top. As we know, neither trickle down nor austerity works.

4) Impose high tariffs on all cheap-labor imports. Injecting money into the economy will not create jobs if the money is used to purchase foreign-made products.

5) Solve our debt by winding down our foreign adventures.


But when The Fed does something necessary that The Prez refuses to do... well, even a broken clock is right twice a day!


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Monday, June 25, 2012 9:01 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
6IX I agree with you. Perhaps you did not read or don't remember what I proposed as the real solution for this current worldwide clusterfuck...


1) Separate out "banks" and "insurances" from "investments", and regulate banks and insurances so that they will be once again safe places for your money.

2) Require 100% capitalization on all loans. This prevents banks from (literally) making money. Leave the money-making to the government, which is (last I checked) the ONLY authority empowered by Congress to issue currency.

3) Tax the ultra-wealthy...a lot. Recycle the money downwards. My vote on this would be to invest in healthcare, education and the environment... investments which the private sector is unlikely to make. Why recycle the money downwards? Because it doesn't matter HOW MUCH money you inject into the economy if you inject it at the top, it will stay at the top. As we know, neither trickle down nor austerity works.

4) Impose high tariffs on all cheap-labor imports. Injecting money into the economy will not create jobs if the money is used to purchase foreign-made products.

5) Solve our debt by winding down our foreign adventures.


But when The Fed does something necessary that The Prez refuses to do... well, even a broken clock is right twice a day!




My apologies Signy. Thank you for taking the time clearing that issue up for me.

Seems you and I agree almost 100% on the issue then.

Number 3 is the only thing I'm not sure I agree with though. Sure, in theory, it sounds great, but for me to ever be on board with taxing the ultra-rich at a high rate would have to be worth it.

That's where Six-Sigma comes in. I swear up and down that GE made the perfect system to make a well oiled machine for the government, but no politician is going to bite the hands that feed them and change anything. I'm sure we could cut government spending in HALF in 10 years without even reducing the quality of life for any of our citizens if things were consolidated and truly made fair.

As things are today, I don't recognize any benefit of highly taxing the uber-rich. We'd still find ourselves running up an even larger national debt no matter which "side" controlled things.

Bottom line, I'm good with 1-5, except for 3 the way things are today. As soon as we do some meaningful housecleaning in the government and impose meaningful ways for the citizens to hold the "public servants" accountable for their actions, I can't in good conscience say that 3 is a good idea.


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Monday, June 25, 2012 7:14 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Jack, if you're going to keep blithering on and on about six sigma, could you at least get the history and origin right?

You're making yourself sound like a bigger idiot than you usually do. Or, to put it in terms you might (*might*, I emphasize) understand, you're committing error after error after defect after defect. YOU have become the problem area!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 4:46 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


My apologies Kwick... Motorola made Six Sigma, GE made improved on the idea and made it popular.

No need to be nasty about it.



Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Jack, if you're going to keep blithering on and on about six sigma, could you at least get the history and origin right?

You're making yourself sound like a bigger idiot than you usually do. Or, to put it in terms you might (*might*, I emphasize) understand, you're committing error after error after defect after defect. YOU have become the problem area!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy




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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 6:44 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



6IX, do you have ADHD/ ADD?? Apparently you didn't read to the end of my post:


Quote:

Number 3 is the only thing I'm not sure I agree with though. Sure, in theory, it sounds great, but for me to ever be on board with taxing the ultra-rich at a high rate would have to be worth it.As things are today, I don't recognize any benefit of highly taxing the uber-rich. We'd still find ourselves running up an even larger national debt no matter which "side" controlled things. Bottom line, I'm good with 1-5, except for 3 the way things are today. As soon as we do some meaningful housecleaning in the government and impose meaningful ways for the citizens to hold the "public servants" accountable for their actions, I can't in good conscience say that 3 is a good idea.
What I wrote about the deficit was
Quote:

5) Solve our debt by winding down our foreign adventures.


My point about taxing the rich is NOT to reduce the deficit. I would reduce the deficit by cutting our military. So, if you have any curiosity at all, you might wonder WHY I want to tax the rich. I think I said something about that...
Quote:

Recycle the money downwards. ... Why recycle the money downwards? Because it doesn't matter HOW MUCH money you inject into the economy if you inject it at the top, it will stay at the top. As we know, neither trickle down nor austerity works.
Of course, I've been saying the same thing over and over for about five years now... the reason to tax the rich is to REDISTRIBUTE MONEY. It has NOTHING to do with the deficit; that's YOUR obession, not mine.

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 6:46 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Rappy, do you have any thought that you will eventually try to back up your (numerous) claims in this thread?

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 7:02 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Rappy, do you have any thought that you will eventually try to back up your (numerous) claims in this thread?




Rappy seems to think that claims are just things you throw out there without any need for evidence or support. He insists that claims have nothing to do with facts.

I doubt he'll answer you.

He's yet to answer me or Kiki, or KPO, or Anthony, or a host of others, so you're in a not-very-exclusive club. ;)



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 7:30 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, as rappy was very careful to point out, there is a difference between claims and facts.

So: YO RAPPY!!! If you want us to take ANY of your claims at all seriously, now might be a good time to start explaining them with some good supporting data!

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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 1:46 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, as rappy was very careful to point out, there is a difference between claims and facts.

So: YO RAPPY!!! If you want us to take ANY of your claims at all seriously, now might be a good time to start explaining them with some good supporting data!



Here's one key difference: A claim can be supported by facts, but a fact cannot be supported by claims.

Rappy has yet to offer any facts, but lots and lots of claims, none of them supported by anything more substantial than a popcorn fart.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 2:47 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

6IX, do you have ADHD/ ADD?? Apparently you didn't read to the end of my post:


Quote:

Number 3 is the only thing I'm not sure I agree with though. Sure, in theory, it sounds great, but for me to ever be on board with taxing the ultra-rich at a high rate would have to be worth it.As things are today, I don't recognize any benefit of highly taxing the uber-rich. We'd still find ourselves running up an even larger national debt no matter which "side" controlled things. Bottom line, I'm good with 1-5, except for 3 the way things are today. As soon as we do some meaningful housecleaning in the government and impose meaningful ways for the citizens to hold the "public servants" accountable for their actions, I can't in good conscience say that 3 is a good idea.
What I wrote about the deficit was
Quote:

5) Solve our debt by winding down our foreign adventures.


My point about taxing the rich is NOT to reduce the deficit. I would reduce the deficit by cutting our military. So, if you have any curiosity at all, you might wonder WHY I want to tax the rich. I think I said something about that...
Quote:

Recycle the money downwards. ... Why recycle the money downwards? Because it doesn't matter HOW MUCH money you inject into the economy if you inject it at the top, it will stay at the top. As we know, neither trickle down nor austerity works.
Of course, I've been saying the same thing over and over for about five years now... the reason to tax the rich is to REDISTRIBUTE MONEY. It has NOTHING to do with the deficit; that's YOUR obession, not mine.



I'm pretty sure I have OCD, but I don't have ADD or ADHD.....

I guess we're just in semi-agreement here then signy.

I do agree with cutting military spending, but that alone isn't going to reduce the defecit. It will reduce deficit spending for sure, but there is no way that we will chip away at all on the actual standing deficit and the interest owed on on just by reducing military spending.

You know I'm totally against the Imperialistic ways our Government persues, but let's be real, we can't completely disband the military altogether. Forget the bogey men in the Middle East.... China is really becoming a threat.

That said, I think we could easily cut military spending by 50 percent and if done correctly have the same protection that we could have with all the wasteful dollars going out today.



About re-distribution of wealth though, I just don't agree with it. Let's give money to the bottom feeders who will blow it at the casino or lottery tickets, or will go to ikea and wal-mart and spend a ton on products made in china and send money out of the country, or (since drugs are illegal) will send money to mexico and south America for their pot and cocaine. Almost none of these people who are just getting by today will save any of that money. It will more often than not end up leaving our country entirely.

Trickle-down, actually did work for a while Signy. When we were a self-sufficient and self serving nation that didn't farm our work out to other countries, and unions weren't as corrupt and tied into democratic politicians as they are today, the "shepherds" at the top had the money to provide meaningful jobs to Americans only, and my grandfather was able to buy a house and raise 5 kids with a stay at home mom with only a grocery store's manager's salary.

There's simply too many variables at work to argue with you on this. Today, trickle down doesn't work at all, I admit that, but that's because when you give the people at the top the money, they're going to do the exact same thing that the poor people would do and give the money to another country in the form of wages, because you can hire 10 people from India for the same salary as 1 person in America.



I don't really know what the answer is, but it's not yours. I know part of it is yours, but there are some other variables that need to be worked out to make any of it work.


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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 4:20 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Hey 6IX, those five points I made? They really meant something, each and every part. So as to your last objection ...
Quote:

Let's give money to the bottom feeders who will blow it at the casino or lottery tickets, or will go to ikea and wal-mart and spend a ton on products made in china and send money out of the country, or (since drugs are illegal) will send money to mexico and south America for their pot and cocaine. Almost none of these people who are just getting by today will save any of that money. It will more often than not end up leaving our country entirely.
I pre-empted that by saying...

Quote:

4) Impose high tariffs on all cheap-labor imports. Injecting money into the economy will not create jobs if the money is used to purchase foreign-made products.
So I'm ahead of you on that point already.

In a rush, but let me just say that savings are evil, and are merely the flip side of loans. Later.

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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 4:35 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Tariffs would only hurt matters. The US buisnesses which sell those items would lose what business they have since many would not be able to afford the products anymore. Second the countries who's products are having tariffs set against them would naturally respond with tariffs against any US products.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 5:14 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I hear you Signy, but really.... in the "REAL" RWED, savings are meaningful for the 99%

I hope I don't turn "bad" with my savings if I get a good job, but at this point if I could make over 1k a month after taxes, they're would be 200 bucks either invested in the house or in the bank every month. If i had a roommate or a girlfriend who worked a second income, well.... sheeeeeeittttt... I might not even need to work...

If I didn't save, I wouldn't be where I was today. If I didn't get lucky with some investments, I'd be F'd today. I have plenty of things I'd love to teach to people, for sure, but I can't say that luck didn't play a part in it as well. Over half of my house was paid with early withdraws on 100% matched retirement accounts, but it's paid for......

Now whatever I make for myself is mine and above that I can share with my friends and family.

In the mean time, I can work for 8 bucks an hour for 24-32 hours a week and make ends meet.


Sorry to disagree, but in my situation, savings really made everything happen for me and now I can work beat off jobs on "France hours" and not worry about where my next meal is coming from...

Two of my favorite sayings in my life were Disney Cartoon sayings....



"Take my advice, do as I say, save a little money for a rainy day...."

Donald didn't listen to Tupac and understand "MOB"




The other was....

"Work smart, not hard", and that was thanks to Scrooge McDuck....

I wish I had short posts of either of those lessons.



Even in the most menial jobs I've had, like what I'm doing now, both of those tenants hold firm....

After volunteering to work tonight before asked, I was stopped by my "boss" to thank me for working so hard and picking things up so quick. I told him no problem and that I used to do IBM mainframe maintenance and this work is mindless for me. I'm just happy to work off some beer fat and get paid for it. He laughed and patted his stomach and said the same.

Wish it paid more, but 8 hours here flies by for me. Just keep me busy with "tasks" and I'm cool....

I'd NEVER be able to sustain myself on this job if my previous savings didn't make it possible.

Savings don't automatically = evil, Signy.....















Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Hey 6IX, those five points I made? They really meant something, each and every part. So as to your last objection ...
Quote:

Let's give money to the bottom feeders who will blow it at the casino or lottery tickets, or will go to ikea and wal-mart and spend a ton on products made in china and send money out of the country, or (since drugs are illegal) will send money to mexico and south America for their pot and cocaine. Almost none of these people who are just getting by today will save any of that money. It will more often than not end up leaving our country entirely.
I pre-empted that by saying...

Quote:

4) Impose high tariffs on all cheap-labor imports. Injecting money into the economy will not create jobs if the money is used to purchase foreign-made products.
So I'm ahead of you on that point already.

In a rush, but let me just say that savings are evil, and are merely the flip side of loans. Later.




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