Quote:

---

Originally posted by 1kiki:
No, that makes Jill Stein my candidate. Or maybe Gary Johnson. Or Darrell Lane Castle (Constitution Party), or Rocky De La Fuente (Reform Party), or Evan McMullin (Independent), or Gloria Estela La Riva (Party for Socialism and Liberation).

After all, I didn't discuss them either.

Logic fail much, SECOND?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:
I like to troll because I have no facts, no logic, and no honor.

And looking like a winner is more important to me than anything else.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

But anyway, SECOND, instead of me answering for you, why don't YOU tell us? What's wrong with a policy of equality for everyone?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Brenda:
Been saying for years that down there what is needed is more than your two party system.

And I identify as liberal in Canada which makes more or less a democrat in the US.

---

Quote:

---

LAPD Confirms It Is Investigating Hollywood Pedophilia Ring
https://www.therebel.media/lapd_confirms_they_are_investigating_hollyw
ood_pedophilia_ring


Asia Argento?
Ehud Barak referred Weinstein to ex-Mossad agents he hired to quash allegations
https://twitter.com/AsiaArgento/status/928313466766708736

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

---

A Class Act like that certainly belongs in a thread with this title.

---

And your ignorance about that post is telling. It's pure trolling, and further I believe I know who it is and said as much.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JO753:
The trollz hav a stratejy.

Derail discussionz by posting oppozing opinionz. If you agree with a post, therez not much to reply with besidez additional info if you hav any, so the trollz hav an immediate advantaj.

Optimizing the stratejy involvez several tekneeks - repetition, saturation, fire.

Repetition: Keep saying the same messaj at every opportunity. EVERY post needz a respons.

Saturation: Dont let any topic slip by without turning it into your messaj. Cant do it? Start a new thred with the same or similar title to dilute the audiens for the orijinal thred. (Like Siggy did with 'Evidens')

Fire: Insults, accuzationz uv bias, claimz uv incorrect info, anything to turn it into a pissing contest that nobody else will bother reading.

They are doing a great job.

---

They are doing a great job of exposing themselves. This all is documented on Google. Anyone reading can look at the post and see if it matches the facts as they remember them. They can see how some use the tactic of deflecting away from subjects because the facts don't match their posted perspective. And in my case I point these things out.

The way to fight trolling is to be consistent and honor the truth. Anyone following will pick up on that if they too are honest. There are years of threads here that people stumble upon if they search firefly on Google. It's easily discernible who the nuts are.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

---

A Class Act like that certainly belongs in a thread with this title.

---

And your ignorance about that post is telling. It's pure trolling, and further I believe I know who it is and said as much.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Yep. Everybody is ignorant except for those who agree with T.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Yep. Everybody is ignorant except for those who agree with T.

---

Here is your chance to be less ignorant: The latest news on the TRUMP'S tax front:

Senate Republicans on Thursday plan to propose delaying a cut in the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 20 percent until 2019, four people briefed on the planning said, a major departure from President Trump’s insistence on immediate changes that he says are necessary to spur the economy…. To try to prevent companies from waiting until 2019 to invest, Senate Republicans will propose to allow companies to immediately deduct all capital investments in 2018 to incentivize them to spend more money immediately, the people said.

www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/senate-gop-plan-would-delay-co
rporate-tax-cut-until-2019-breaking-with-trump/2017/11/09/92ea07ec-c55d-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html

I have two comments:

This is idiocy in the extreme. The sole reason for delaying the tax cut is to reduce the cost of the plan in its first ten years. It makes no sense as policy, but it’s a good way to game the CBO score.

It’s not a “major departure” from anything. Donald Trump doesn’t have a clue what he really wants, and he will praise anything that Republicans produce.

We are now entering serious smoke-and-mirrors territory.


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly]

History has shown SECOND that they will take their savings and by back stock and spread it out amongst their shareholders. No jobs ever come from giving tax breaks to corporations. Only the rich win and the middle class gets screwed again.

Quote:

---

The trollz hav a stratejy.

Derail discussionz by posting oppozing opinionz. If you agree with a post, therez not much to reply with besidez additional info if you hav any, so the trollz hav an immediate advantaj.

Optimizing the stratejy involvez several tekneeks - repetition, saturation, fire.

Repetition: Keep saying the same messaj at every opportunity. EVERY post needz a respons.

---

Quote:

---

Saturation: Dont let any topic slip by without turning it into your messaj. Cant do it? Start a new thred with the same or similar title to dilute the audiens for the orijinal thred. (Like Siggy did with 'Evidens') -

---

Quote:

---

Fire: Insults, accuzationz uv bias, claimz uv incorrect info, anything to turn it into a pissing contest that nobody else will bother reading.

---

Quote:

---

They are doing a great job.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Yep. Everybody is ignorant except for those who agree with T.

---

Here is your chance to be less ignorant: The latest news on the TRUMP'S tax front:

Senate Republicans on Thursday plan to propose delaying a cut in the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 20 percent until 2019, four people briefed on the planning said, a major departure from President Trump’s insistence on immediate changes that he says are necessary to spur the economy…. To try to prevent companies from waiting until 2019 to invest, Senate Republicans will propose to allow companies to immediately deduct all capital investments in 2018 to incentivize them to spend more money immediately, the people said.

www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/senate-gop-plan-would-delay-co
rporate-tax-cut-until-2019-breaking-with-trump/2017/11/09/92ea07ec-c55d-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html

I have two comments:

This is idiocy in the extreme. The sole reason for delaying the tax cut is to reduce the cost of the plan in its first ten years. It makes no sense as policy, but it’s a good way to game the CBO score.

It’s not a “major departure” from anything. Donald Trump doesn’t have a clue what he really wants, and he will praise anything that Republicans produce.

We are now entering serious smoke-and-mirrors territory.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly]
History has shown SECOND that they will take their savings and by back stock and spread it out amongst their shareholders. No jobs ever come from giving tax breaks to corporations. Only the rich win and the middle class gets screwed again.

---

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

History has shown SECOND that they will take their savings and by back stock and spread it out amongst their shareholders. No jobs ever come from giving tax breaks to corporations. Only the rich win and the middle class gets screwed again.

---

Quote:

---

History has shown SECOND that they will take their savings and by back stock and spread it out amongst their shareholders. No jobs ever come from giving tax breaks to corporations. Only the rich win and the middle class gets screwed again.-

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Yep. Everybody is ignorant except for those who agree with T.

---

Here is your chance to be less ignorant: The latest news on the TRUMP'S tax front:

Senate Republicans on Thursday plan to propose delaying a cut in the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 20 percent until 2019, four people briefed on the planning said, a major departure from President Trump’s insistence on immediate changes that he says are necessary to spur the economy…. To try to prevent companies from waiting until 2019 to invest, Senate Republicans will propose to allow companies to immediately deduct all capital investments in 2018 to incentivize them to spend more money immediately, the people said.

www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/senate-gop-plan-would-delay-co
rporate-tax-cut-until-2019-breaking-with-trump/2017/11/09/92ea07ec-c55d-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html

I have two comments:

This is idiocy in the extreme. The sole reason for delaying the tax cut is to reduce the cost of the plan in its first ten years. It makes no sense as policy, but it’s a good way to game the CBO score.

It’s not a “major departure” from anything. Donald Trump doesn’t have a clue what he really wants, and he will praise anything that Republicans produce.

We are now entering serious smoke-and-mirrors territory.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly]
History has shown SECOND that they will take their savings and by back stock and spread it out amongst their shareholders. No jobs ever come from giving tax breaks to corporations. Only the rich win and the middle class gets screwed again.

---

---

Getting to be funny when the worst offenders of poor syntax get caught in the poor syntax of the others.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

History has shown SECOND that they will take their savings and by back stock and spread it out amongst their shareholders. No jobs ever come from giving tax breaks to corporations. Only the rich win and the middle class gets screwed again.

---

A guy with a Nobel for economics says that you're pretty much right and he adds details about how tax cuts really work, which contradicts what Republicans claim:

---

May be the same person I got my information from.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Yep. Everybody is ignorant except for those who agree with T.

---

Here is your chance to be less ignorant: The latest news on the TRUMP'S tax front:

Senate Republicans on Thursday plan to propose delaying a cut in the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 20 percent until 2019, four people briefed on the planning said, a major departure from President Trump’s insistence on immediate changes that he says are necessary to spur the economy…. To try to prevent companies from waiting until 2019 to invest, Senate Republicans will propose to allow companies to immediately deduct all capital investments in 2018 to incentivize them to spend more money immediately, the people said.

www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/senate-gop-plan-would-delay-co
rporate-tax-cut-until-2019-breaking-with-trump/2017/11/09/92ea07ec-c55d-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html

I have two comments:

This is idiocy in the extreme. The sole reason for delaying the tax cut is to reduce the cost of the plan in its first ten years. It makes no sense as policy, but it’s a good way to game the CBO score.

It’s not a “major departure” from anything. Donald Trump doesn’t have a clue what he really wants, and he will praise anything that Republicans produce.

We are now entering serious smoke-and-mirrors territory.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly]
History has shown SECOND that they will take their savings and by back stock and spread it out amongst their shareholders. No jobs ever come from giving tax breaks to corporations. Only the rich win and the middle class gets screwed again.

---

---

Getting to be funny when the worst offenders of poor syntax get caught in the poor syntax of the others.

---

LOL...

T still hasn't fixed his color issue.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

---

History has shown SECOND that they will take their savings and by back stock and spread it out amongst their shareholders. No jobs ever come from giving tax breaks to corporations. Only the rich win and the middle class gets screwed again.-

---

Mostly correct. Since Reagan, tax cuts for the wealthy have not stimulated the USA economy. MOST companies have chosen to invest - when they DO invest- in China.

This process has also been going on under Obama as well, except that instead of tax cuts, corporations have been able to access zero-interest rate money, and have been using THAT as their fount of cash for stock buybacks. Thanks to the Fed, which the President has SOME control over.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Yep. Everybody is ignorant except for those who agree with T.

---

Here is your chance to be less ignorant: The latest news on the TRUMP'S tax front:

Senate Republicans on Thursday plan to propose delaying a cut in the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 20 percent until 2019, four people briefed on the planning said, a major departure from President Trump’s insistence on immediate changes that he says are necessary to spur the economy…. To try to prevent companies from waiting until 2019 to invest, Senate Republicans will propose to allow companies to immediately deduct all capital investments in 2018 to incentivize them to spend more money immediately, the people said.

www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/senate-gop-plan-would-delay-co
rporate-tax-cut-until-2019-breaking-with-trump/2017/11/09/92ea07ec-c55d-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html

I have two comments:

This is idiocy in the extreme. The sole reason for delaying the tax cut is to reduce the cost of the plan in its first ten years. It makes no sense as policy, but it’s a good way to game the CBO score.

It’s not a “major departure” from anything. Donald Trump doesn’t have a clue what he really wants, and he will praise anything that Republicans produce.

We are now entering serious smoke-and-mirrors territory.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly]
History has shown SECOND that they will take their savings and by back stock and spread it out amongst their shareholders. No jobs ever come from giving tax breaks to corporations. Only the rich win and the middle class gets screwed again.

---

---

Getting to be funny when the worst offenders of poor syntax get caught in the poor syntax of the others.

---

LOL...

T still hasn't fixed his color issue.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

and he's attributing his own comments to second.

---

Care to elaborate JSF. I don't follow
what you are saying except to say, I think it's about me
attributing SICONDS comments to myself. Read it again.
In the exchange between myself and SECOND,
he states what I said was the same thing said
by a Nobel prize winner. SECOND continues on from there
with the rest of what he wants to say.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Yep. Everybody is ignorant except for those who agree with T.

---

Here is your chance to be less ignorant: The latest news on the TRUMP'S tax front:

Senate Republicans on Thursday plan to propose delaying a cut in the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 20 percent until 2019, four people briefed on the planning said, a major departure from President Trump’s insistence on immediate changes that he says are necessary to spur the economy…. To try to prevent companies from waiting until 2019 to invest, Senate Republicans will propose to allow companies to immediately deduct all capital investments in 2018 to incentivize them to spend more money immediately, the people said.

www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/senate-gop-plan-would-delay-co
rporate-tax-cut-until-2019-breaking-with-trump/2017/11/09/92ea07ec-c55d-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html

I have two comments:

This is idiocy in the extreme. The sole reason for delaying the tax cut is to reduce the cost of the plan in its first ten years. It makes no sense as policy, but it’s a good way to game the CBO score.

It’s not a “major departure” from anything. Donald Trump doesn’t have a clue what he really wants, and he will praise anything that Republicans produce.

We are now entering serious smoke-and-mirrors territory.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly]
History has shown SECOND that they will take their savings and by back stock and spread it out amongst their shareholders. No jobs ever come from giving tax breaks to corporations. Only the rich win and the middle class gets screwed again.

---

---

Getting to be funny when the worst offenders of poor syntax get caught in the poor syntax of the others.

---

LOL...

T still hasn't fixed his color issue.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

and he's attributing his own comments to second.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

History has shown SECOND that they will take their savings and by back stock and spread it out amongst their shareholders. No jobs ever come from giving tax breaks to corporations. Only the rich win and the middle class gets screwed again.

---

A guy with a Nobel for economics says that you're pretty much right and he adds details about how tax cuts really work, which contradicts what Republicans claim:

---

May be the same person I got my information from.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

History has shown SECOND that they will take their savings and by back stock and spread it out amongst their shareholders. No jobs ever come from giving tax breaks to corporations. Only the rich win and the middle class gets screwed again.

---

A guy with a Nobel for economics says that you're pretty much right and he adds details about how tax cuts really work, which contradicts what Republicans claim:

---

May be the same person I got my information from.

---

Check it out JSF. This is my exchange with SECOND. It changes when you respond to this in quotes. Your the one who fucked up the layout of posts not me.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

History has shown SECOND that they will take their savings and by back stock and spread it out amongst their shareholders. No jobs ever come from giving tax breaks to corporations. Only the rich win and the middle class gets screwed again.

---

A guy with a Nobel for economics says that you're pretty much right and he adds details about how tax cuts really work, which contradicts what Republicans claim:

---

May be the same person I got my information from.

---

---

Check it out JSF. This is my exchange with SECOND. It changes when you respond to this in quotes. Your the one who fucked up the layout of posts not me.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

History has shown SECOND that they will take their savings and by back stock and spread it out amongst their shareholders. No jobs ever come from giving tax breaks to corporations. Only the rich win and the middle class gets screwed again.

---

A guy with a Nobel for economics says that you're pretty much right and he adds details about how tax cuts really work, which contradicts what Republicans claim:
https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2017/11/08/leprechaun-economics-and-
neo-lafferism/
https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/leprechaun-economics-with
-numbers/

But there is still more to be said (Isn't there always?):

The Republican Party has long billed itself as being for family values, for the dignity of work, for lower taxes, and (at least, as the minority party) for balanced budgets. The House GOP tax bill cuts against all of these positions.

It would raise taxes on about one-third of the middle class by 2027. By eliminating the estate tax, it would benefit heirs of large estates, even if they don’t work a day in their life. Meanwhile, by eliminating some tax breaks often claimed by higher earners, the plan would raise taxes on many upper-middle class households. As a result, the bill would ironically privilege the “idle rich” over the “working rich.” And by slashing corporate taxes by several trillion dollars, it would raise deficits by trillions of dollars, even according to the most pro-Republican analyses.

www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/11/gop-tax-cut/545450/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Now, getting back to politics. I am posting this only because it may make it possible for the democrats to win an Alabama Senate seat. It would be a tremendous win if they do.

---

Bombshell Report on Roy Moore Could Reshape Washington’s Political Landscape

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/bombshell-report-could-res
hape-washington-s-political-landscape-n819641

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

It does highlight a huge problem that Second's signature creates for anyone trying to quote him too. I've mentioned that to him as well before, but that was ignored.

Is it any surprise that both T and Second are inconsiderate enough to both make roadblocks for people quoting them, and neither of them will correct them when it's been pointed out?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:
6ixStringJack, I never-ever listen to "correction" unless they are paying me, or I'm paying them, or they have a gun pointed at me, or they are my friend, or my family.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:
6ixStringJack, I never-ever listen to "correction" unless they are paying me, or I'm paying them, or they have a gun pointed at me, or they are my friend, or my family.

---

Why doesn't that surprise me. Should we attribute your inconsiderate behavior to the fact that you're of the 1%, you're an elitist, you're a die-hard Democrat, or all of the above?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Do you actually think anybody reads your posts?

---

Quote:

---

Special Counsel Robert Mueller is investigating an alleged plan involving former White House national security adviser Mike Flynn to forcibly remove a Muslim cleric living in the U.S. and deliver him to Turkey in return for millions of dollars, according to people familiar with the investigation.

Under the alleged proposal, Mr. Flynn and his son, Michael Flynn Jr., were to be paid as much as $15 million for delivering Fethullah Gulen to the Turkish government, according to people with knowledge of discussions Mr. Flynn had with Turkish representatives. President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has pressed the U.S. to extradite him, views the cleric as a political enemy.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Do you actually think anybody reads your posts?

---

Don't read -- for Democrats only:

---

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

---

Special Counsel Robert Mueller is investigating an alleged plan involving former White House national security adviser Mike Flynn to forcibly remove a Muslim cleric living in the U.S. and deliver him to Turkey in return for millions of dollars, according to people familiar with the investigation.

Under the alleged proposal, Mr. Flynn and his son, Michael Flynn Jr., were to be paid as much as $15 million for delivering Fethullah Gulen to the Turkish government, according to people with knowledge of discussions Mr. Flynn had with Turkish representatives. President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has pressed the U.S. to extradite him, views the cleric as a political enemy.

---

CLEARLY, this is colluding with Russia!

---

Clearly, this is one more reason why Trump should not be president. Poor judgement SIG, poor judgement.

---

Quote:

---

Special Counsel Robert Mueller is investigating an alleged plan involving former White House national security adviser Mike Flynn to forcibly remove a Muslim cleric living in the U.S. and deliver him to Turkey in return for millions of dollars, according to people familiar with the investigation.

Under the alleged proposal, Mr. Flynn and his son, Michael Flynn Jr., were to be paid as much as $15 million for delivering Fethullah Gulen to the Turkish government, according to people with knowledge of discussions Mr. Flynn had with Turkish representatives. President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has pressed the U.S. to extradite him, views the cleric as a political enemy.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
I do because I read. You don't because you don't read. You just spew bullshit.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
I do because I read. You don't because you don't read. You just spew bullshit.

---

Says the guy who attacks and insults somebody with every. single. post.


For a guy who considers himself deeply aware of his surroundings, you're surprisingly and completely absent of any self awareness.

---

Your very presence in this thread proves my point Jack. As SECOND eluded to, READ the title of the thread.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
I do because I read. You don't because you don't read. You just spew bullshit.

---

Says the guy who attacks and insults somebody with every. single. post.


For a guy who considers himself deeply aware of his surroundings, you're surprisingly and completely absent of any self awareness.

---

Your very presence in this thread proves my point Jack. As SECOND eluded to, READ the title of the thread.

---

Quote:

---

I am an independent myself- THUGR

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:


If you meet the requirements ( slightly to the right, middle and liberal ) and you have an interest in starting a discussion say so.

---

Look at my first post Jack, and please try and remember, I started the thread with this very post. I fit the bill. I meet the requirements to post here. Read moron read before you speak. Wow you kiki and SIG are the dumbest of the dumb.

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Quote:

---

I am an independent myself- THUGR

---