A thread for Democrats Only by THGRRI

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

The flaws a Nobel Prize-winning economist wants you to know about yourself (You're not the 1% because you overindulge in these flaws)

Sorry to say it, but you’re not perfect. Democrats know this; Republicans not so much. We like to believe that we are smart, rational creatures, acting in our best interests. In fact, dominant economic theory these days often makes that assumption.

What was left of this illusion was further dismantled by the The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, who awarded the Nobel prize in economics to Richard Thaler, an American economist at the University of Chicago, for his pioneering work in behavioral economics, which examines humanity’s flaws—namely, why we don’t make rational economic decisions.

Here are some of the main ways behavioral economists like Thaler say we let ourselves down. More at https://qz.com/1098078 Republicans are not allowed to read that article. Democrats are welcome.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, October 9, 2017 9:59 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

old info and not relevant, nobody's thought of people as rational deciders for over a decade

And once again you posted something that failed to address the actual ideas of the person you're pretending to have a discussion with.

Which is what makes you completely useless as a factor in changing anyone's mind --- except of course to make them think less, and less, and less of you, as time goes on. You're certainly changing people's minds about you.

Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Monday, October 9, 2017 11:58 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
old info and not relevant, nobody's thought of people as rational deciders for over a decade

And once again you posted something that failed to address the actual ideas of the person you're pretending to have a discussion with.

Which is what makes you completely useless as a factor in changing anyone's mind --- except of course to make them think less, and less, and less of you, as time goes on. You're certainly changing people's minds about you.

KIKI gets the Nobel Prize for the funniest post!

SECOND, if YOU think that I take the atomistic, rational (indeed prescient) actor of standard economic theory at all seriously, then your head is up your ass. MOST economic theory today is sheer bunk, which is ... wait, hold the presses! .... exactly what that article about "algorithmic" flaws said! Don't you understand or even read your own posts?? There is a serious problem with the underpinnings of today's economic theory, about how an economy works and what makes an economy run well. I have three books on the ten (in total) wrong assumptions underpinning today's economic theory, and the "rational actor" assumption is only one of them.

I only posted the list of ideas on how to FIX THE ALGORITHM to demonstrate that

.... if you really think that the problem is "Republicans", or "Trump", or even "people" then you're thinking too small.

Way too small.

Way waaaay too small.

Ditch your psychology degree and look into the world of physics and programming, because what you're dealing with is a non-human system, even tho humans are in it.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 12:44 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Hillary would never have run as VP. Way too big of an ego.

She technically did win the popular vote. I think a lot of people who voted for Trump were simply voting against the Clinton family and the status quo.

I think say, a female version of Bernie Sanders would have won by a landslide against Trump.

I don't think it had much to do with a fact she was a woman in the end. Sure, there are some people who were voting against that, but they generally speaking would have been voting against any democrat these days for a lot of other reasons anyhow.

You guys (and gals) just put the wrong woman up. She's just a shitty person all around. If you put another woman up next time, I suggest that it be somebody people actually like. Don't want to make a streak of females losing in that race and set a precedent of it.

A bit of precedent already.
Ferraro as VP. Lost
Palin as VP. Lost
Clinton as POTUS. Lost.
Of course ultra-liberals Mondale and McCain really lost the top of the tickets.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 6:13 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

KIKI gets the Nobel Prize for the funniest post!

SECOND, if YOU think that I take the atomistic, rational (indeed prescient) actor of standard economic theory at all seriously, then your head is up your ass. MOST economic theory today is sheer bunk, which is ... wait, hold the presses! .... exactly what that article about "algorithmic" flaws said! Don't you understand or even read your own posts?? There is a serious problem with the underpinnings of today's economic theory, about how an economy works and what makes an economy run well. I have three books on the ten (in total) wrong assumptions underpinning today's economic theory, and the "rational actor" assumption is only one of them.

The Republican Party swears on a stack of Bibles that the Market place is rational. When the GOP voters see that blacks and browns have lower networth they take it as proof of white superiority. The market awarded white virtue, at least according to Republicans I know in Texas.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/10/05/heres-why-the-wealth-ga
p-is-widening-between-white-families-and-everyone-else/

On the other hand, if a white GOP voter is poor, he takes it as proof that the market is being manipulated by Democrats to make him poor. See for just one example Trump's references to The War On Coal. West Virginia really ate up Trump's nonsense that coalminers lost jobs because of Democrats. They actually lost jobs because natural gas is cheaper than coal. There is your Market place doing its job. If only natural gas was imported from China, the GOP could have blamed low import tariffs and the Chinese, but gas comes from Texas, which is GOP country, so the GOP came up with a plausible, yet false, story about Democrats.

GOP voters think that their economic success is all of their own doing. On the other hand, the 1%, most of whom are in the GOP at the very top, know that the vast majority of Americans are easily fooled out of their money. You can get a Nobel Prize in economics, or get rich in business, based on that knowledge. Will the fools ever learn to stop being fooled? Business certainly hopes not since the rich would be stopped from getting ever richer at an ever faster pace.
https://angrybearblog.com/2017/10/right-wing-propaganda-tank-ipi-likes
-the-trump-tax-cuts-for-the-rich-framework.html

A Republican reading the following would declare it FAKE NEWS. Sorry, Republicans, it is not fake.

Radically incorrect economic ideas flourish when they serve the powerful.
https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2017/10/08/the-schlock-of-the-new/

When the 2008 financial crisis struck, there were many calls for new economic ideas – even an Institute for New Economic Thinking. The implicit story, pretty much taken for granted as true, was that the crisis proved the inadequacy of economic orthodoxy and the need for fundamental new concepts. Pretty obviously, too, supporters of calls for new thinking had a sort of Hollywood script version of how it would play out: daring innovators would propose radical ideas, would face resistance from old fuddy-duddies, but would eventually win out through their superior ability to predict events.

What actually happened was very different. Panics and bank runs are an old topic, discussed in every economic principles book. The reason few economists saw the 2008 panic and bank run coming was an empirical failure – few realized that the rise of "shadow banking" had done an end run around Depression-era bank safeguards and, thus, avoided the business expense of deposit insurance, made more profit, but also made the banking system more prone to crashes. Yes, it has been referred to "shadow banking" for a reason. Just because few took into account the potential impact of a new phenomenon that was largely working in the shadows, does not mean that the economic orthodoxy was wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_banking_system

The point was that only the dimmest of free-market ideologues reacted with utter bewilderment, once the panic and bank run began. The rest of economists slapped our foreheads and said, “Diamond-Dybvig! How stupid of me! Diamond-Dybvig!”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond%E2%80%93Dybvig_model

And post-crisis, standard macroeconomics worked pretty well. Both fiscal policy and monetary policy did what they were supposed to at the zero lower bound on short-term interest rates. Plenty of room for refinement, lots of opportunities to use the 2008 mother of all natural economic experiments for empirical work, but no huge requirement for radical new thinking.

Nonetheless, there was a proliferation of radical new concepts: contractionary fiscal policy is actually expansionary, expansionary monetary policy is actually deflationary, terrible things happen to growth when debt crosses 90 percent of GDP. These ideas instantly got huge amounts of political traction – the policy establishment leaped at the chance to apply new ideas.

What did the ideas they leaped at have in common? All of them had, implicitly or explicitly, conservative ideological implications. And all of them proved, quite quickly, to be dead wrong.

So new economic thinking since the crisis has proved, for the most part, to consist of bad ideas that serve a conservative political agenda. Not exactly the Hollywood script we were promised, is it?

Once you think about it, it’s not too hard to see how that happened. First of all, conventional macroeconomics has worked pretty well, so you’d need really, really brilliant innovations to make a persuasive major break with that conventionality. And really, really brilliant innovations don’t come easy. Instead, the breaks with conventional wisdom came mainly from people who, far from transcending that wisdom, simply failed to understand it in the first place.

And while there are such people on both left and right, there’s a huge asymmetry in wealth and influence between the two sides. Confused views on the left get some followers, provoke a back-and-forth on a few blogs, and generate some nasty tweets. Confused views on the right get mainlined straight into policy pronouncements by the European Commission and the leadership of the Republican Party.

Macroeconomics is a technical subject with a mainstream consensus that faces challenges from left and right. But a lot of hard work went into creating that consensus; this doesn’t mean that it’s right, but you have to come up with a really good idea to challenge it effectively.

On the other hand, you can get a lot of political traction with a really bad idea challenging the consensus, as long as it serves the interests of big money and the political right.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 6:50 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

And once again you posted something that failed to address the actual ideas of the person you're pretending to have a discussion with.

Which is what makes you completely useless as a factor in changing anyone's mind --- except of course to make them think less, and less, and less of you, as time goes on. You're certainly changing people's minds about you.

There is no discussion because I think you are inauthentic. Remember the accusations that 1kiki and Signym are Russian trolls? That is one of the nicest theory about what you really are: you're making a living, you're serving Mother Russia, you're writing well. If you are a Russian troll, congratulations. You've done fine work for the Empire. There are other theories that are less complementary. Do you remember ending your posts with "Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda"? In only two sentences, you communicated that you're either a troll or a nut. But you still have more sentences to go in your signature that are nuttier and more trollish. Even if you change your signature, you won't be changed, whoever and whatever you really are.

Now this is what a signature should look like. It proves itself to be authentic when you click the link, then click a second link to get the script, then read the script to discover how Wash manages to live:

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

I guess you could decide that the script is not authentic, that Joss didn't write what he wrote, because that version wasn't made into a movie. That would be very in line with how 1kiki's mind works -- misunderstand and disbelieve everything inconvenient to your world.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 8:33 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
The Republican Party swears on a stack of Bibles that the Market place is rational. When the GOP voters see that blah blah blah and blah blah blah ... - SECOND

Now you're sounding like WISHY: "All men are violent". Despite the rather interesting article that you posted about bad algorithms, none of that actually absorbed, did it? For a moment, it seemed like you caught a glimmer of a larger world, but then went back to pounding your provincial, partisan belief system.

Quote:
And once again you posted something that failed to address the actual ideas of the person you're pretending to have a discussion with.

Which is what makes you completely useless as a factor in changing anyone's mind --- except of course to make them think less, and less, and less of you, as time goes on. You're certainly changing people's minds about you. - KIKI

There is no discussion because I think you are inauthentic.- SECOND

If you're not interesting in having a discussion, why the hell would anyone want to converse with you? All YOU'RE doing is pushing your religion. You're boring as shit, did you know that?

Quote:
Remember the accusations that 1kiki and Signym are Russian trolls? That is one of the nicest theory about what you really are:- SECOND

Oh, hon, you wouldn't believe the theories that we have about you. One of the nicest ones is that you're pro-illegal immigration because you hate America and you hate Americans - especially white American males - because you're really loyal to Mexico. You just want to see this country go down in flames.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 9:35 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

If you're not interesting in having a discussion, why the hell would anyone want to converse with you? All YOU'RE doing is pushing your religion. You're boring as shit, did you know that?

Quote:
Remember the accusations that 1kiki and Signym are Russian trolls? That is one of the nicest theory about what you really are:- SECOND
Oh, hon, you wouldn't believe the theories that we have about you. One of the nicest ones is that you're pro-illegal immigration because you hate America and you hate Americans, you're really loyal to Mexico.

I'll give you facts so you can create a theory about me: I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. www.jw.org

One teaching of the Witnesses is to strictly avoid politics. Others are: Don't vote. Don't join political parties. Don't join the military. Oops! I have fallen away, to the regret of my mother and sisters. But they still hope!

One of the beliefs of Witnesses that have stayed with me is that The Righteous are in the minority and the wicked are all around. They need to be saved, but they will have to come to The Truth of their own volition. I took that as Democrats are the Righteous and Republicans, since they are the Antonin Scalias of the world, are the wicked. Scalia is dead, choked to death on a chicken bone, the greedy fat bastard.

As a child I liked the illustrations where they showed the wicked, who looked like ordinary Republicans, being completely surprised when Armageddon destroys them. The look on their faces was "Aren't we the righteous ones? Why is fire and brimstone falling on us?" The Witnesses also believed they would be persecuted for their beliefs. Unsurprising to me, it is the Russians living down to my expectations:
www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2017/0501/Jehovah-s-Witnesses-as-extrem
ists-Court-sharpens-edges-of-Russia-s-religious-space

And the Republicans, unsurprisingly, are really into persecuting minorities. Perhaps I need to add that Democrats aren't?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:40 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
If you're not interesting in having a discussion, why the hell would anyone want to converse with you? All YOU'RE doing is pushing your religion. You're boring as shit, did you know that? - SIGNY

So, no answer to the question as to why anyone would even want to talk to you because you're not interested in having a discussion, you just want to push your political religion?

Quote:
Remember the accusations that 1kiki and Signym are Russian trolls? That is one of the nicest theory about what you really are:- SECOND

Oh, hon, you wouldn't believe the theories that we have about you. One of the nicest ones is that you're pro-illegal immigration because you hate America and you hate Americans, you're really loyal to Mexico. - SIGNY

I'll give you facts so you can create a theory about me: I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. www.jw.org - blah blah blah- SECOND

Uh huh. So you say.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 12:35 PM

THGRRI

The Daily Beast reported that Russia recruited YouTubers to "bash" Hillary Clinton, highlighting a pro-Donald Trump YouTube channel that it says was backed by the Russian government and was previously banned from Facebook and YouTube.

We all know who posted all those lies here. We also know who was stupid enough to believe it all.

Google did not immediately respond to Business Insider's request for comment.

Facebook found roughly 3,000 ads adverts linked to Russia — but it has refused to publicly release them despite calls from congressional investigators. It cited the investigation led by the special counsel Robert Mueller as hindering it from releasing the ads, Business Insider previously reported.

https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=Election+2016&bu=http%3a%2f%2fw
ww.businessinsider.com%2frussian-linked-accounts-google-accounts-2016-election-report-2017-10&FORM=HPPANW

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 12:59 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

NYT editor was caught on hidden camera targeting the President of the USA, and denying any sort of objectivity.

Quote:
While talking about being objective at the Times, Dudich replies candidly, "No I'm not, that's why I'm here."

Dudich considers himself an important player at the New York Times, telling the Project Veritas Journalist "my voice is on... my imprint is on every video we do."

Dudich goes on to explain what he might do to target President Trump:

"I'd target his businesses, his dumb fuck of a son, Donald Jr., and Eric...

"Target that. Get people to boycott going to his hotels. Boycott... So a lot of the Trump brands, if you can ruin the Trump brand and you put pressure on his business and you start investigating his business and you start shutting it down, or they're hacking or other things. He cares about his business more than he cares about being President. He would resign. Or he'd lash out and do something incredibly illegal, which he would have to."

When the undercover journalist asks Dudich if he could make sure that the anti-Trump stories make it to the front, he replied, "Oh, we always do."

So much for the objectivity and sanctity of the "free" (corporate) press!
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-10/okeefe-takes-aim-nyt-records-
editor-admitting-targeting-trumps-buinesses-his-dumb-fk

I'll post this in a thread where it really belongs, but just put this here to counter THUGR'S off-topic post.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:09 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So, no answer to the question as to why anyone would even want to talk to you because you're not interested in having a discussion, you just want to push your political religion?

That is a very odd formulation, Signym. It's like you're a Jehovah's Witness, going from door to door, and when the people at home refuse to answer your knocks, you knock harder, even more insistently, demanding to know why they won't talk to you as you shout at them through the windows about Hillary being Satan and Trump saving the world from that devil woman.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:15 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Trolling AGAIN SECOND-RATE?

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
There is no discussion because I refuse to discuss anything because I'm a troll and RUSSIA! and blah blah blah

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:44 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So, to get back to what's wrong with the ironically-named 'democratic' party.

For a start, SECOND is what's wrong with the party. SECOND and its wealthy ilk who don't like republicans but really don't want to change the way things are: where the rich get richer and more powerful by the day, and everyone else gets screwed.

'Third-way' politicians like the Clintons are what's wrong with the party. These deeply cynical people have no interest in the rest of us.

SGG and people like him are what's wrong with the party. Those are people who are permanently wedded to the party's identity politics because it gives them 'special victim' status. They'd rather go home with the plastic consolation prize, instead of finding common cause to change the system - or seeking true fairness and justice for all.

Do-gooder organizations like the Sierra Club are what's wrong with the party. They are so deeply entrenched that they, too, refuse to give up their little, meaningless piece of turf, to join forces to move the system.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:55 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr

I jenerally agree with you. Exept for the attack on 2nd and SGG.

If you 2 can state your pozition on hiz complaints, we can all hav a good laff at hiz unfair karakterization.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:57 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Exept for the attack on 2nd and SGG."

They attack me so frequently, I'm surprised you don't object to that.

"state your pozition on hiz complaints"

Whose complaints?

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 8:51 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, to get back to what's wrong with the ironically-named 'democratic' party.

For a start, SECOND is what's wrong with the party. SECOND and its wealthy ilk who don't like republicans but really don't want to change the way things are: where the rich get richer and more powerful by the day, and everyone else gets screwed.

'Third-way' politicians like the Clintons are what's wrong with the party. These deeply cynical people have no interest in the rest of us.

SGG and people like him are what's wrong with the party. Those are people who are permanently wedded to the party's identity politics because it gives them 'special victim' status. They'd rather go home with the plastic consolation prize, instead of finding common cause to change the system - or seeking true fairness and justice for all.

Do-gooder organizations like the Sierra Club are what's wrong with the party. They are so deeply entrenched that they, too, refuse to give up their little, meaningless piece of turf, to join forces to move the system.

You're actually not struggling against a few thousand people in the hierarchy of the Democratic and Republican parties who will not accept your superior ideas. You're struggling against the mental inertia of 120,000,000 voters that don't want anything to change. They only want complete change for the better exclusively for one voter, themselves, their relatives, and friends. They don't care about anyone outside that tiny circle that only has a few hundred people inside it. Good luck with your struggle, 1kiki, but it takes more to change society than convincing party leadership to change their ways.

www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html
Monkey experts performed a monkey study a while back, and discovered that the size of the monkey's monkey brain determined the size of the monkey groups the monkeys formed. The bigger the brain, the bigger the little societies they built.

They cut up so many monkey brains, in fact, that they found they could actually take a brain they had never seen before and from it they could accurately predict what size tribes that species of creature formed.

Most monkeys operate in troupes of 50 or so. But somebody slipped them a slightly larger brain and they estimated the ideal group or society for this particular animal was about 150.

That brain, of course, was human. Probably from a homeless man they snatched off the streets. "So that's the big news? That humans are God's big-budget sequel to the monkey? Who didn't know that?"

It goes much, much deeper than that.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 8:58 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
You're actually not struggling against a few thousand people in the hierarchy of the Democratic and Republican parties who will not accept your superior ideas. ... it takes more to change society than convincing party leadership to change their ways.

I don't care what the party leadership does, SECOND.

BTW 61,943,670 voted for Trump. Republicans COULD have voted for more of the same in the primaries. But they didn't. Americans COULD have voted for more of the same in the general election. But 61,943,670 didn't.

A lot of people are seeking change.

I think what people of both parties fear, more than anything else, is a rogue candidate getting elected - which is what happened.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 9:05 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I don't care what the party leadership does, SECOND.

BTW 61,943,670 voted for Trump. Republicans COULD have voted for more of the same in the primaries. But they didn't. Americans COULD have voted for more of the same in the general election. But 61,943,670 didn't.

A lot of people are seeking change.

I think what people of both parties fear, more than anything else, is a rogue candidate getting elected - which is what happened.

Obviously, 1kiki, it takes more to change society than convincing party leadership to change their ways. It has taken a Revolutionary War, Civil War, WWII, or Vietnam War. All those wars only took a few people high in the political hierarchy to get a war rolling. You should hope for a war and then, maybe, your ideas might have a chance, but I strongly doubt it will work out well for those ideas. I just realized Trump can provide the war. So much better to have him in charge than Hillary. She might want to negotiate before bombing North Korea. Her cautious ways would slow down change in America

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 9:14 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I don't care what the party leadership does, SECOND.

New parties arise. Old parties disappear.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 9:36 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:
I jenerally agree with you. Exept for the attack on 2nd and SGG.

If you 2 can state your pozition on hiz complaints, we can all hav a good laff at hiz unfair karakterization.

You'll tolerate unfair attacks on me and KIKI all day long, but when I do to SECOND EXACTLY what it does to me, you think I should explain myself?

Quote:
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ?

No, that doesn't seem right to me. So, why should I explain myself to you?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 9:41 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

HERE IS SECOND'S REPUDIATION OF DEMOCRACY. BECAUSE "PEOPLE".

Quote:
Most monkeys operate in troupes of 50 or so. But somebody slipped them a slightly larger brain and they estimated the ideal group or society for this particular animal was about 150.

That brain, of course, was human. Probably from a homeless man they snatched off the streets. "So that's the big news? That humans are God's big-budget sequel to the monkey? Who didn't know that?"

It goes much, much deeper than that.

You see? I said you hated the USA and here you are: hating the USA, hating democracy, and especially hating Americans.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:23 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So, to get back to what's wrong with the ironically-named 'democratic' party.

For a start, SECOND is what's wrong with the party. SECOND and its wealthy ilk who don't like republicans but really don't want to change the way things are: where the rich get richer and more powerful by the day, and everyone else gets screwed.

'Third-way' politicians like the Clintons are what's wrong with the party. These deeply cynical people have no interest in the rest of us.

SGG and people like him are what's wrong with the party. Those are people who are permanently wedded to the party's identity politics because it gives them 'special victim' status. They'd rather go home with the plastic consolation prize, instead of finding common cause to change the system - or instead of seeking true fairness and justice for all.

Do-gooder organizations like the Sierra Club are what's wrong with the party. They are so deeply entrenched that they, too, refuse to give up their little, meaningless piece of turf, to join forces to move the system.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 11:15 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Perhaps to put this in context -

I'm under no illusion that I'm telling anyone what to do, let alone directing my opinions to the democratic party leadership as SECOND seems to think. And I'm also not deeply interested in changing the party. My loyalties aren't to the party, but to ideals. And ultimately, the party will either pass or fail the test of history.

But as a decades-long registered democrat, I have opinions on the direction of the party.

Over the very, VERY long term, the party has lost - lost membership, and lost support - from the composite voting base. It seems to have lost its way. And at this point, the party is in dire straits in terms of counties, state legislatures, governorships, the House, the Senate - and - the last bastion of political relevancy, the Presidency.

OBVIOUSLY it's doing something wrong. To think otherwise is to be deeply rooted in fantasy.

In the past it relied on select groups for loyal support, especially unions. Need I point out that unions are no longer the force they once were? (And if the Supreme Court rules aversely, the last bastion of unions will be decimated.)

Recently it's tried to cobble together support by fostering and aligning itself with various victim groups.

Don't get me wrong. People are being discriminated against. Most recently, State Street Corp - the firm that brought us 'Fearless Girl' - paid a $5 million fine for underpaying women and minorities. "The feds concluded that since “at least December 1, 2010,” State Street discriminated against women in senior-level roles including vice president, senior vice president, and managing director positions by paying them lower base salaries, bonuses and total compensation than men in “similarly situated” positions. The government office also found that they did the same thing to 15 black employees at the vice president level."

That said, catering to identity politics is not, in my opinion, a way to garner broad-based support.

I've already posted my ideas that I think are workable.

But surely other people have their own observations, opinions, and ideas.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 11:42 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

That said, catering to identity politics is not, in my opinion, a way to garner broad-based support.

But identity politics works for Trump. Trump congratulated mostly non-American NHL team on being “incredible patriots”.

Calling an all-white assembly of mostly foreign hockey players patriots, in clear contrast to the group of African-American athletes that the president has blasted, suggests the real issue here isn’t love for America. It’s how well the athletes fit in to Trump’s and the GOP's vision of America — one in which black athletes shut up about racism and perform the sort of patriotic spectacle that Trump likes.

Trump’s approach to politics is often labeled nationalism. That’s right, to a degree, but imprecise. Trump’s actual view appears much closer to ethnonationalism; certain groups of people qualify as “true” Americans, while others who don’t fit the mold aren’t entitled to the same rights and level of concern. See Puerto Ricans for a recent example. They didn't get the concern of Texas or Florida.

Ultimately, some people matter more than others — which is how white foreigners are “incredible patriots” while black Americans asking to be treated equally get labeled “sons of bitches.” That attitude has propelled the GOP to the very top. Maybe the Democrats could learn the lesson and stage a comeback from second place?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, October 11, 2017 8:18 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

You see? I said you hated the USA and here you are: hating the USA, hating democracy, and especially hating Americans.

Trump wants Americans to be great again:

Trump said he wanted what amounted to a nearly tenfold increase in the U.S. nuclear arsenal during a gathering this past summer of the nation’s highest ranking national security leaders, according to three officials who were in the room.

Trump’s comments, the officials said, came in response to a briefing slide he was shown that charted the steady reduction of U.S. nuclear weapons since the late 1960s. Trump indicated he wanted a bigger stockpile, not the bottom position on that downward-sloping curve.

It was soon after the meeting broke up that officials who remained behind heard Tillerson say that Trump is a “moron.”

Any increase in America’s nuclear arsenal would violate international disarmament treaties signed by every president since Ronald Reagan. Nonproliferation experts warned that such a move could set off a global arms race.

“If he were to increase the numbers, the Russians would match him, and the Chinese” would ramp up their nuclear ambitions, Joe Cirincione, a nuclear expert and MSNBC contributor, said, referring to the president.

“There hasn’t been a military mission that’s required a nuclear weapon in 71 years,” Cirincione said.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-wanted-tenfold-increase-in-nucle
ar-arsenal-surprising-military/ar-AAthYSc?li=AA5a8k&ocid

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, October 11, 2017 10:20 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

SECOND, remember that interesting quote that you posted about algorithms and systems? Here it is, just to refresh your memory. In that quote, did you see ANYthing about Republicans, Trump, or Democrats?

Quote:
I remember a conversation I had with Walt Mossberg in which he recounted a conversation he had with Steve Ballmer who, at the times, was the CEO of Microsoft. He told me he’d said, "Steve, if you guys would be 5 percent less greedy, the world would like you 100 percent more." I'm now watching that dynamic play out again with Google where, despite their "don't be evil" philosophy, they're becoming the focus of antitrust investigations.

I look at these patterns in platforms in which they start out with a burst of optimism and creation of public value, then gradually they start turning away from that. I'm trying to understand why that is.

Hmmm... nothing about Trump yet.

Quote:
It seems to me that the same pattern we've seen with technology platforms is playing out today in our broader economy, where financial markets in particular have turned into an extractive monopoly rather than a support system for our economy. Something like 85 percent of all corporate "investment" today goes to dividends and share buybacks. Very little goes to actual investment in people, building things, and R&D. It's all going into financial gamesmanship.

Looking at the pattern of algorithmic systems like Google and Facebook, I started thinking about how that applies to financial markets. A system like Google has hundreds of factors that are being taken into account, but they all have a master objective function, a fitness function, which is relevance in search results and ads.

Facebook's fitness function, their objective function, is to produce content that's engaging. We saw how that went wrong with fake news. Mark and the Facebook team are trying to deal with that. They're wrestling with the fact that they had this idea about how to build an engaging product, and it's been subverted.

Nothing about Republicans ...

Quote:
I look at our economic system where inequality is increasing, and I ask myself: Is that also a system that's dominated by an algorithm? What are they trying to optimize for?

I started to realize that thirty or forty years ago was the point we told companies that there's only one thing to optimize for, and that is shareholder value. That's the point in the '70s where you see this great divergence between the increased productivity brought on by technology and the actual benefit to the economy, where you see inequality soar, where you see people not doing as well as their parents. I came around to thinking that in some ways financial markets are that rogue AI that people like Elon Musk have been talking about.

Nick Bostrom and Elon Musk and everybody use these artificial thought experiments, like the AI which follows its objective function of making paperclips. Musk used one recently about the strawberry-picking robot that decides humans are in the way of its picking strawberries. Those aren't realistic. What is realistic is a world in which you have an increasingly algorithmic financial system saying, "Hey, optimize for corporate profit because it drives stock price. Never mind what happens to the people. Never mind what happens to society." We're in that AI-driven situation.

What do we do about that? How do we debug the objective function of an increasingly automated economy, of an economy that's dominated by systems that are, to use a great quote from Wallace Stevens, "without human feeling, without human meaning, a foreign song"? We're living in a world which is dominated by a system that disregards human value. A great quote comes to mind from a guy named Andrew Singer. Many years ago he said to me, "The art of debugging a computer program is to figure out what you really told the computer to do instead of what you thought you told it to do." Right now, Facebook is engaged in this struggle, as is Google.

I don't see anything in there about Democrats either!

Quote:
We have to do the same thing in our society. We had a theory that if we optimized for shareholder value and corporate profit, and if we aligned the interest of shareholders and the interests of management, companies would prosper and the economy would prosper. Now, thirty or forty years on, we're looking at it and realizing it didn't quite work out that way. So what do we replace it with?

If you think back to the Middle Ages, everybody believed in the divine right of kings. Right now, everybody believes in the divine right of capital. It's only “natural” that the owners of businesses and the owners of capital should try to extract as much as possible for themselves and leave society in the lurch, and that they should basically treat people as a cost to be eliminated. We accept that. We simply believe that that's the way the world works. We ignore things that run contrary to that. We have this sense that the way the world is today, that the story we tell ourselves about the world is somehow true.

Ok, then.

Move your (extremely narrow) focus off of Trump/ Texas Republicans/ GOP for a moment, if at all possible. If you think this article is true ... and I suppose that you agree with it to SOME extent, since you posted it ... what does your current obsession with Trump have to do with the systems problem that it points out?

Oh, NOTHING, you say?

SECOND, the problem of capital that your article points out didn't just start happening thirty or forty years ago (which would be about 1980 - 1990). ENTIRE BOOKS have been written about it, including Das Kapital Vol 1 (1868, Marx), The General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money (1936, Keynes), and Human Action (1948, von Mises).

The role of capital and profit and their relationship to employment, production, booms and busts, and wealth inequality, has been a point of discussion, for centuries. Your author is merely naively discovering what has already been thoroughly discussed.

In all of that time, neither Trump nor Texas Republicans, and not even the GOP, was the driving force behind increasing financialization, increasing wealth inequality, increasing unemployment, increasing monopolization/ globalization. These processes span nations and centuries and political parties.

There is no reason or logic behind your intense and irrational focus on the "stupidity" of people, Republicans in general, Texas Republicans in particular, and Trump specifically.

What's driving YOU, my friend, is that you were butt hurt because your warmongering globalist corrupt harridan of a candidate lost the election. And all of that butt hurt seems to center around your feelings for the "poor illegal immigrants" and ALL of the poor of the world, who you seem to think is your duty to "help", above and beyond the Americans that you live with every day and whom you despise with a passion. Somehow, the fact that that "help" always turns into everything from exploitation to downright bombing doesn't seem to have woken you up the the FACT that your heroes, the establishment lib-Dems, are as much complicit in maintaining the status quo as the Republicans .... they just put a better spin on it. And since your allegiances are everywhere but here, you're all too-ready to see the lipstick that they put on their pig policies, and not see the pig behind it.

So, to go to KIKI's point: What's wrong with the Dems??? Why have they not been able to forward policies that even remotely begin to solve the systemic problems that bedevil almost all of us? Why their (your) intense focus on identity politics and their (your) reliance on a supremely sub-divided populations of victim sub-groups? Is it possible that they're (you're) just going thru the motions and spinning their (your) actions while pocketing corporate money?

I just posted ten or so ideas on how to fix the profit system so that it doesn't drive 99% of us into poverty. Try addressing those.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, October 11, 2017 10:55 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

There is no reason or logic behind your intense and irrational focus on the "stupidity" of people, Republicans in general, Texas Republicans in particular, and Trump specifically.

What's driving YOU, my friend, is that . . .

You really think there is no stupidity? I have yet to find any real person I know in the flesh who is both not a Democrat and also thinks Trump should not drag us into violent conflict with North Korea. I'm sorry to say I have found 1 Democrat that supports Trump's urge to drop fire and fury on N Korea. But it is only 1 and he is stupid.

Trump's bouts of rage are intensifying (and his adversary, Kim Jong-un, isn’t an island of calm either). Trump completely misunderstands the history of U.S.-North Korean relations, in a manner that moves him away from diplomacy toward war.

For instance, in the middle of the day on Saturday, Trump tweeted:

Presidents and their administrations have been talking to North Korea for 25 years, agreements made and massive amounts of money paid … hasn’t worked, agreements violated before the ink was dry, making fools of U.S. negotiators. Sorry, but only one thing will work!

Everything about this statement is wrong.

First, one of those agreements—President Clinton’s Agreed Framework of 1994—worked quite well, as far as it went, keeping nuclear weapons out of North Korea’s hands for eight years.

Second, that agreement collapsed in large part because we violated its terms.

Third, North Korea made its biggest advancements—successfully testing an atom bomb, a long-range ballistic missile, and possibly a hydrogen bomb—precisely in the years when U.S. presidents (first George W. Bush, then Trump) rejected diplomacy as a matter of principle.

Finally, if Trump thinks the “one thing” that “will work” to rid North Korea of its nukes is a military strike, it’s worth noting that it has never worked before—or, in any case, nobody has figured out how to make it work without sparking retaliation, which would kill hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of civilians in South Korea and possibly Japan.

Much more at
www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2017/10/it_is_pos
sible_to_negotiate_with_north_korea_bill_clinton_did_it.html

I also saw at www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/11/16454978/chris-murphy-trump
-north-korea-war

Ezra Klein said: "One dimension of this that worries me is that a lot of people seem to be relying on a sort of soft coup to keep Trump in check. The hope, as I’ve heard it expressed, is that the generals surrounding Trump will control his paper flow, control the information he gets, and if Trump goes off the reservation and does try to order an unwarranted first strike, they will do something to stop it or slow-walk it or otherwise intercede. All of this might be better than Trump unleashed, but it seems to me to subvert civilian control of the military in a worrisome way."

Senator Chris Murphy responded: "I’m not sure I entirely buy the severity of that premise, but let me reframe it: If this ended up in the military convincing the president out of military action, it would be a dramatic reversal of traditional roles. From the Cuban Missile Crisis to Vietnam to the Iraq War, it is usually the military trying to convince the president to view a problem through a kinetic lens. The military sees problems through their toolkit. They are not very good at seeing complicated diplomatic paths out of vexing problems. To assume military leaders will tell Donald Trump not to use the military to solve a problem belies the history."

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, October 11, 2017 11:13 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

SECOND, you have ENDLESSLY splattered the board with your anti-Trump schiess, on everything from his pink hair to his orange skin to his small hands and nude portrait; blaming Trump for being rich, for cheating on his taxes, for getting peed on by a prostitute, for colluding with Russia, for "racism", for warmongering (also see Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, and Carter), and for the process of advancing wealth inequality, which (as I've pointed out) has been going on for centuries (including being aided and abetted by Bill Clinton and Barack Obama) not just the past nine months.

You've posted so much anal-splatter on the board, about how bad Trump is, how bad Texas Republicans are, how "stupid" people are ... I can't even keep track of all the bullshit that you posted, most of which makes no sense at all.

Clearly, you're just obsessively and selectively looking for anything and everything that puts Trump in a bad light. If you should happen to hit on one or two real issues, that doesn't explain or excuse all the rest of the crap that you posted. You're still an elitist butt hurt globalist shill.

AND your allegiances are STILL elsewhere. It's like you can't even talk about "America" or "Americans", as if the very concept offends you.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, October 11, 2017 1:05 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Clearly, you are not interested in what Trump's North Korean strategy is. Remember his "Only one thing will work" in dealing with North Korea? What is Trump's "thing"? It will be a surprise!
www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41540736

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, you have ENDLESSLY splattered the board with your anti-Trump schiess, on everything from his pink hair to his orange skin to his small hands and nude portrait; blaming Trump for being rich, for cheating on his taxes, for getting peed on by a prostitute, for colluding with Russia, for "racism", for warmongering (also see Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, and Carter), and for the process of advancing wealth inequality, which (as I've pointed out) has been going on for centuries (including being aided and abetted by Bill Clinton and Barack Obama) not just the past nine months.

You've posted so much anal-splatter on the board, about how bad Trump is, how bad Texas Republicans are, how "stupid" people are ... I can't even keep track of all the bullshit that you posted, most of which makes no sense at all.

Clearly, you're just obsessively and selectively looking for anything and everything that puts Trump in a bad light. If you should happen to hit on one or two real issues, that doesn't explain or excuse all the rest of the crap that you posted. You're still an elitist butt hurt globalist shill.

AND your allegiances are STILL elsewhere. It's like you can't even talk about "America" or "Americans", as if the very concept offends you.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, October 11, 2017 1:30 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Clearly, you are not interested in what Trump's North Korean strategy is. Remember his "Only one thing will work" in dealing with North Korea? What is Trump's "thing"? It will be a surprise! - SECOND

Who says I'm not interested? I'm just not interesting in discussing it with you, because all YOU'RE interested in is spreading your political religion. Which is, to repeat myself, forwarding a "globalist" agenda which puts everyone else's interests ahead of ours, and which diminishes the role of democracy in the USA by handing off our sovereignty to faceless international bankers, nameless commissions, and secret trade tribunals.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, October 11, 2017 2:04 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
. . . to repeat myself, forwarding a "globalist" agenda which puts everyone else's interests ahead of ours, and which diminishes the role of democracy in the USA by handing off our sovereignty to faceless international bankers, nameless commissions, and secret trade tribunals.

You've been reading too much propaganda written in Russia for American consumption, comrade Signym. I would never question your loyalty or patriotism to Russia/America/I have no idea what country you logged in from, you big fake.
www.nytimes.com/2017/10/09/technology/russia-election-facebook-ads-rag
e.html

Trump has been reading too much Richard Nixon:

Trump Threatens NBC TV Licenses After Story on Nuclear Buildup

In 1972, President Richard Nixon urged his lieutenants to interfere with the renewal of the Washington Post’s licenses for Florida TV stations. “Of all the threats to the company during Watergate — the attempts to undermine our credibility, the petty slights, and the favoring of the competition — the most effective were the challenges to the licenses of our two Florida television stations,” publisher Katharine Graham wrote in 1997.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-threatens-nbc-licenses-after-sto
ry-on-nuclear-buildup/ar-AAtiwA6

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, October 11, 2017 2:31 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
You've been reading too much propaganda written in Russia for American consumption, comrade Signym. I would never question your loyalty or patriotism to Russia/America/I have no idea what country you logged in from, you big fake.

You big fucking hypocritical liar, you have OFTEN questioned my loyalty to America.

THIS, from the person (along with a whole bunch of other phony patriots here) who can't even bring themselves to discuss America's interests, as if there shouldn't be any.

But you'll endlessly whine and cry about "the poor (fill in the blank with the victim subgroup of the moment here)"

What a fucking douche.

ETA: But if ANY of you phony-patriot lib-Dem globalists want to rectify that disgust with talking about America's Interests you can find that thread here. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60986

Maybe this time you'll add something besides personal insults, avoidance, and cowardice.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, October 11, 2017 3:06 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

What a fucking douche.

You're losing your cool, comrade Signym. You're as thin-skinned as your heroic Trump. To argue your case, find a way to align your views with Trump's buttons, then push them unashamedly. Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster, Trump’s national security adviser, reportedly persuaded him to send more troops to Afghanistan in part by showing him a photo from the 1970s of women in Kabul wearing miniskirts. (See, he seemed to suggest, Afghans can be just like us.) Maybe Tillerson, McMaster, and Secretary of Defense James Mattis are figuring out other paint-by-numbers games for keeping Trump in their lane on other matters, too.

www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2017/10/now_we_kn
ow_why_rex_tillerson_called_donald_trump_a_moron.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, October 11, 2017 3:11 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

SECOND, I'm not losing my cool. I'm simply describing you as I see you: You're a hypocritical liar and a phony patriot who can't even seem to imagine that "Americans" might actually have many things in common. Instead, you seem more intent on splitting people apart, looking down on an awful lot of people, denigrating democracy, and pandering to victim subgroups, your favorite of which is "the poor illegal immigrant".

Until you learn to DISCUSS things with people instead of constantly proselytizing with an endless stream of mostly bullshit, there's not much point in discussing much of anything with you.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, October 11, 2017 3:29 PM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Trolling AGAIN SECOND-RATE?
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
There is no discussion because I refuse to discuss anything because I'm a troll and RUSSIA! and blah blah blah

One tool of trolling is posting from zerohedge. All non trolls know that. All trolls do it regardless of the fact that the writers there hide their identities.

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Wednesday, October 11, 2017 3:59 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by second: There is no discussion because I refuse to discuss anything because I'm a troll and RUSSIA! and blah blah blah ... - KIKI

One tool of trolling is posting from zerohedge. All non trolls know that. All trolls do it regardless of the fact that the writers there hide their identities. - THUGR

Oh goody, another phony patriot know-nothing.. Zerohedge is more of an aggregator, not many posts are actually authored by "Tyler Durden". And since Zerohedge posts LINKS to where they get their stories it's incredibly easy to use the links to follow the info back to its source.

You DO know how to use links, right?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Friday, October 13, 2017 10:03 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

How Amazon’s Accounting Makes Rich People’s Income Invisible
https://angrybearblog.com/2017/10/how-amazons-accounting-makes-rich-pe
oples-income-invisible.html

Image you’re Jeff Bezos, circa 1998. You’re building a company (Amazon) that stands to make you and your compatriots vastly rich.

But looking forward, you see a problem: if your company makes profits, it will have to pay taxes on them. (At least nominally, in theory, 35%!) Then you and your investors will have to pay taxes on them again when they’re distributed to you as dividends. (Though yes, at a far lower 20% rate than what high earners pay on earned income.) Add those two up over many years, and you’re talking tens, hundreds of billions of dollars in taxes.

You’re a very smart guy. How are you going to avoid that?

Simple: don’t show any profits (or, hence, distribute them as dividends). Consistently set prices so you constantly break even. This has at least three effects:

1. You undercut all your competitors’ prices, driving them out of business. Nobody who’s trying to make a profit can possibly compete.

2. You control more and more market share.

3. You build a bigger and bigger business.

Number 3 is how you monetize this, personally. The value of the company (its share price/market cap) rises steadily. Obviously, a business with $136 billion in revenues (2016) is going to be worth more than one with $10 or $50 billion in revenues — even if it never shows a “profit.” You take your profits in capital gains.

Because stock-market investors are always going to be thinking: “They could always turn the dial from market share to profits. Just raise prices a skootch, and reap the harvest. In spades.”

But: they never do. It’s like a perpetual-motion machine, or holding yourself up by your own bootstraps. All that rising valuation is eternally based on the fact that they could raise prices and deliver profit (and yes: they could). In the meantime the business both generates and has massive value. It employs 270,ooo people, delivers zillions in employee compensation, pays zillions more to suppliers, receives hundreds of billions in revenues, and dominates whole segments of multiple industries. Are there really no “profits”? Nobody’s being irrational here.

Here are the results of your long-term plan:

Half a trillion dollars in revenues.

Essentially zero profits. Ever.

Dollars delivered onto investors’ balance sheets? Somewhere north of 300 billion.

And instead of being double-taxed on profits for all that time, investors’ income is taxed once, at the low 20% capital gains rate. And that, only when those gains are “realized” through sale of the stock. In the meantime it’s all tax-deferred — yet another huge effective-tax-rate win for shareholders. The longer they hold, the bigger the win. If they pass the stock on to their heirs, those gains are never taxed at all.

And just to mention in passing, none of that shareholder income ever appears as household income in the national accounts. It might as well not exist.

You gotta be impressed. That Jeff Bezos is a very smart guy.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, October 14, 2017 1:16 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

THANKS! for not discussing the topic! Again.

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Saturday, October 14, 2017 2:01 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

What is wrong with the dems -

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=1

Democrats, you can’t vote for Hillary: The case for writing in Bernie Sanders If Hillary Clinton is the nominee
We need structural change: Clinton as president would merge GOPers and Dems into one party on war & foreign policy
H. A. Goodman

Hillary Clinton doesn’t get it: Paul Krugman, Bernie Sanders and the truth about the free trade scam
Trade has been a disaster for Democratic voters, but a boon for Democratic politicians -- especially the Clintons

Making her first extensive comments about the crisis in Ukraine, Clinton said at a private fundraiser in California that Putin's campaign to provide Russian passports to those with Russian connections living outside his country's borders is reminiscent of Hitler's protection of ethnic Germans outside Germany, according to a report published overnight.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=2

ETA: This would be the time for Hillary to make some significant policy concessions, if not for the sake of the party, then for the sake of her political career. I predict she won't. And I think the reasons will have to do with some combination of her arrogance and the fact she's deeply beholden to powerful interests that she can't cross. Not if she wants to keep the dollars rolling in at least.

Polling suggests the party is becoming less unified, not more. In March, 78% of Democratic primary voters said they would be satisfied if Mrs. Clinton were the nominee. In April, that fell to 73%, according to Wall Street Journal/NBC News polling. Asked if they could see themselves supporting Mrs. Clinton for president, just 58% of Sanders primary voters said yes, with 40% saying no, according to the April poll.

It's not just Wall Street banks. Most companies and groups that paid Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton to speak between 2013 and 2015 have lobbied federal agencies in recent years, and more than one-third are government contractors, an Associated Press review has found. Their interests are sprawling and would follow Clinton to the White House should she win election this fall.

Hillary Clinton is lying about the criminal U.S.-backed coup in Honduras. It should be as scandalous as Libya
The U.S., under Clinton's leadership, helped overthrow Honduras' elected government. Today the country is in chaos

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=4

Hillary, Debbie and Roberta

Hillary Clinton Targets Republicans Turned Off by Donald Trump

It's interesting - despite being for Hillary, second hasn't posted here at all, and sgg's only posted one post which didn't say anything about her.
It's almost like they're afraid to discuss their candidate.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60433&p=5

Hillary’s holiday plans: FBI will reportedly interrogate Clinton over long weekend

Clinton’s pledge to forgive student debt of entrepreneurs, not average workers, will benefit the elite
Clinton wrong on student debt: Her new plan shows she learned nothing from the primary

I'll post more later. But what's wrong with Hillary is what's wrong with the party.

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Saturday, October 14, 2017 6:42 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, I'm not losing my cool. I'm simply describing you as I see you: You're a hypocritical liar and a phony patriot who can't even seem to imagine that "Americans" might actually have many things in common. Instead, you seem more intent on splitting people apart, looking down on an awful lot of people, denigrating democracy, and pandering to victim subgroups, your favorite of which is "the poor illegal immigrant".

Until you learn to DISCUSS things with people instead of constantly proselytizing with an endless stream of mostly bullshit, there's not much point in discussing much of anything with you.

Donald Trump and the Rage of Republican Voters
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/10/donald-trump-and-the-rage-of-ru
ral-voters/

David French is a conservative lawyer who writes for National Review. Last year he wrote scathingly about both Donald Trump and the alt-right and was rewarded with a barrage of abuse, much of the worst of it aimed at his wife and children. Yesterday he wrote not about the alt-right, but about ordinary rural conservatives who support Trump:

Quote:
Trump is stoking a particularly destructive form of rage — and his followers don’t just allow themselves to be stoked, they attack Trump’s targets with glee. Contrary to the stereotype of journalists who live in the Beltway and spend their nights at those allegedly omnipresent “cocktail parties,” I live in rural Tennessee, deep in the heart of Trump country. My travels mainly take me to other parts of Trump country, where I engage with Trump voters all the time. If I live in a bubble, it’s the Trump bubble. I know it intimately.

And I have never in my adult life seen such anger. There is a near-universal hatred of the media. There is a near-universal hatred of the so-called “elite.” If a person finds out that I didn’t support Trump, I’ll often watch their face transform into a mask of rage. Partisans are so primed to fight — and they so clearly define whom they’re fighting against — that they often don’t care whom or what they’re fighting for….Don’t like the media? Shut it down. Don’t like kneeling football players? Make them stand. Tired of American weakness overseas? Cheer incoherent and reckless tweets as evidence of “strength.”

Where does this end? Does this rural rage become a permanent part of American life? Or does something happen to finally let the air out of it?

The two big explanations for the rise of this rural anger (and the rise of Trump) revolve around economics and race. The modern economy has screwed these folks over and they’re tired of it. Or: they’re badly threatened by the growth of the nonwhite population. Which is it? Almost certainly both, and in any case it doesn’t matter much: both of these things are likely to get worse from their point of view. The nonwhite population share is obviously going to keep growing, and the economy of the future is only going to become ever more tilted toward the highly educated. If working-class whites really are enraged by either or both of these things, they’re only going to get more enraged as time goes by.

That’s especially true if they keep voting for Republicans, who will actively make these things worse while skillfully laying off the blame on “elites” and “Hollywood liberals.” Keeping the rage machine going is their ticket to political power.

How do we prick this bubble? Obama tried to give them cheap health care, and it enraged them. He passed stricter regulation on the Wall Street financiers who brought us the Great Recession, and they didn’t care. He fought to reduce their payroll taxes and fund infrastructure to help the economy get back on track, and they sneered that it was just a lot of wasted money that ballooned the national debt.

At the same time, Obama didn’t try to take their guns away. He didn’t outlaw Christianity or conduct a war on Christmas. He didn’t do much of anything related to abortion. He did promote a number of gay-friendly policies, and praised the Supreme Court decision that legalized same-sex marriage.

None of it really seemed to matter, though. The culture war stuff remained enraging regardless of what Obama did or didn’t do.

Is there an answer? We haven’t found one yet, have we? I wonder if there is one.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, October 14, 2017 7:54 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
It's interesting - despite being for Hillary, second hasn't posted here at all, and sgg's only posted one post which didn't say anything about her.

It's almost like they're afraid to discuss their candidate.

Then that makes Trump your candidate. Discuss how your imaginary version of Hillary is worse than reality Trump.

Praise your Trump, 1kiki, for he is hard at work wrecking the health care system — which could make sense if he had even a notion of what he’d like to see in its place. (Could his secret plan be “great, great health care for everybody at a tiny fraction of the cost” — which is not too much of an exaggerated description of what they already have in Canada and throughout Europe, Great Britain, Singapore and Japan? No, I don’t think so. He has no idea what he’s doing.)

Trump is treating the Puerto Rican crisis as if, well, let’s face it, Puerto Ricans were not real Americans — a view many of his faithful probably share.

And then there’s his work to undermine the agreement that brought Iran back from the brink of nuclear proliferation, to undermine environmental protections, to rain fire and fury on N Korea. Talk about how you helped Trump into power, 1kiki, because Hillary and Michelle Obama have equal political power in the USA -- none -- and aren't worth discussing. Tell us that Trump is better than Hillary, 1kiki.

1kiki, don't tell us about Bernie. As a Senator, he had and will have as little influence as George McGovern. I know you said Bernie was your candidate, but he lost to Hillary by more votes in the primary than Trump lost to Hillary in the general. With the election system the Constitution gave us in the 18th Century, it was a choice between Trump or Hillary. And even if 1kiki doesn't understand how voting works, 1kiki picked Trump.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_McGovern

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, October 14, 2017 9:28 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Texas’ largest power generator plans to shutter three of the state’s largest coal plants early next year, highlighting the continued decline of coal even as President Donald Trump tries to prop up the struggling industry.

Dallas-based Vistra Energy said the closure of its financially struggling Sandow plant near Austin and the Big Brown plant east of Waco, including their associated coal mines, will occur in January and February, respectively, eliminating about 650 jobs in the process. A week ago, Vistra said it would will close its Monticello coal plant in Northeast Texas in January and cut about 200 more jobs there.

The planned shutdowns come just afew days after the Trump administration said it would repeal greenhouse gas regulations known as the Clean Power Plan that President Donald Trump and other Republicans have blamed for the decline in the coal industry. Vistra executives, however, blamed low electricity prices and competition from cleaner, lower-cost natural gas-fired plants and renewable energy sources, perhaps underscoring that the so-called war on coal may be more about economics than regulations.

Barely any of the state’s more than 15 coal plants are turning a profit, according to power companies.

“The economics right now are dominating any political rhetoric,” said Travis Miller, power and utilities analyst at the research firm Morningstar. “Coal plants just can’t compete with renewable energy and natural gas, especially in Texas,” which is by far the nation’s biggest producer of wind power.

Wind accounts for more than 15 percent of the state’s electricity. Coal, which once generated about half of the state’s electricity, today accounts for just 30 percent.

The three plant closings, if approved by the state’s grid operator, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, would relieve Vistra of unprofitable operations . . .

In Texas, the power companies rely on price spikes during hot summer days to earn profits. But the surge of electricity generated by wind farms and, increasingly, solar panels has smoothed those spikes and slashed profits. Obviously, if Trump pays a price per megawatt-hour higher for coal-based electricity than renewable energy, he can win the war on coal. I dare him to try. I'm curious to see how far Trump will actually go to protect coal mining jobs.

www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/Vistra-to-shutter-two
-more-coal-fired-plants-12277119.php

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, October 14, 2017 3:01 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
It's interesting - despite being for Hillary, second hasn't posted here at all, and sgg's only posted one post which didn't say anything about her.

It's almost like they're afraid to discuss their candidate.

Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
Then that makes Trump your candidate.

No, that makes Jill Stein my candidate. Or maybe Gary Johnson. Or Darrell Lane Castle (Constitution Party), or Rocky De La Fuente (Reform Party), or Evan McMullin (Independent), or Gloria Estela La Riva (Party for Socialism and Liberation).

After all, I didn't discuss them either.

Logic fail much, SECOND?

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Saturday, October 14, 2017 5:35 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So, to start to summarize what's been wrong with Hillary for years, and by extension, what's wrong with the Democratic party:

They're a bunch of corrupt crony insiders (like Hillary, Debbie, and Roberta) who work the system to benefit their masters (international corporations, banks, and neo-cons) in order to benefit themselves.

As beneficiaries of the status quo, of course neither Hillary nor the party have any interest in changing the system to benefit the 99%.

So instead of trying to unite people to foster the common good, they focus on creating multiple special status victimhoods. For example, you'll find that in the the DNC platform LGBT Rights, Disability Rights, Agricultural Communities, Poverty / Communities Left Behind, Honoring Indigenous Tribal Nations, People of the Territories, and Puerto Rico all get their own special sections of special mention. And let's not forget Student Debt, Minority-Serving Institutions, Women and Girls, Young People, Religious Minorities and Refugees, which also get their own sections. And I'm sure if i looked harder, I'd find more.

What could be so terribly hard about setting a goal that everyone, regardless of sex, age, health, race, religion, location, culture or background will all have opportunities for meaningful employment that supports a secure lifestyle?

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Sunday, October 15, 2017 5:19 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

No, that makes Jill Stein my candidate. Or maybe Gary Johnson. Or Darrell Lane Castle (Constitution Party), or Rocky De La Fuente (Reform Party), or Evan McMullin (Independent), or Gloria Estela La Riva (Party for Socialism and Liberation).

After all, I didn't discuss them either.

Logic fail much, SECOND?

Fail much yourself, Russian Troll? You can't even say which one you voted for. If you had voted in the election, you wouldn't be so coy about it now. So, real quick, make up an answer. Doesn't matter which candidate, nobody will believe it anyway, you big phony American who is actually from Russia.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, October 15, 2017 5:21 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, to start to summarize what's been wrong with Hillary for years, and by extension, what's wrong with the Democratic party:

No, let's mention one of Trump's complex blunders from this week:

Just before the Iranian Nuclear deal was signed, the Republican controlled Congress—which had no say in the matter, since it was not a formal treaty—passed a law called the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act. This law requires the president to certify, every 90 days, that Iran is still in compliance. If he certifies otherwise (in other words, if he acknowledges that Iran has been caught cheating), Congress could vote within 60 days to reimpose the sanctions.

The Republicans who wrote this law thought they were pulling a fast one: Iran was certain to cheat; President Obama or Hillary Clinton (his most likely successor) would be put in the embarrassing spot of admitting it; and Congress would destroy the deal. But, as the inspectors have reported time and time again, Iran is not cheating. Even Trump has had to certify twice that Iran was in compliance—and he was getting sick and tired of it. The most recent time he signed the certificate, he said that he probably wouldn’t do it the next time.

The 90-day deadline is this Sunday. Iran is still in compliance. So what did Trump do? He decided to decertify Iran anyway and to invent reasons why.

If our face-off with North Korea is to end without war, it will require some sort of diplomatic settlement. But how can North Korea believe any deal Trump would sign or guarantee he would make, if he pulls out of the Iran deal, even though Iran is abiding by its terms?

More at www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2017/10/why_trump
_s_iran_speech_was_one_of_the_most_dishonest_and_dangerous_ones.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, October 15, 2017 5:41 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, to start to summarize what's been wrong with the Democratic party:

So instead of trying to unite people to foster the common good, they focus on creating multiple special status victimhoods. For example, you'll find that in the the DNC platform LGBT Rights, Disability Rights, Agricultural Communities, Poverty / Communities Left Behind, Honoring Indigenous Tribal Nations, People of the Territories, and Puerto Rico all get their own special sections of special mention. And let's not forget Student Debt, Minority-Serving Institutions, Women and Girls, Young People, Religious Minorities and Refugees, which also get their own sections. And I'm sure if i looked harder, I'd find more.

What could be so terribly hard about setting a goal that everyone, regardless of sex, age, health, race, religion, location, culture or background will all have opportunities for meaningful employment that supports a secure lifestyle?

I'm a rich, white Texas gun-owner. I can pass as a Republican. That is how I know what Republicans believe. To summarize: "Why can't the Democrats treat white people better than the niggers, queers and Mex-skins? We are better!" This comes from the mouths of Republicans who have been beating down niggers, queers and Mex-skins all their lives. There is an article about how that works at the Business Insider:
www.businessinsider.com/racial-wealth-gap-in-the-us-is-astounding-2015
-3

Or a more recent article, more focused on one race, at:
www.epi.org/blog/the-racial-wealth-gap-how-african-americans-have-been
-shortchanged-out-of-the-materials-to-build-wealth/

This information applies to Republicans in all states, not just Texas. Some Republicans I am familiar with in Nebraska and Utah are exceptions. And good for them! Even better, those exceptional Republicans would not vote for Trump.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, October 15, 2017 10:20 AM