REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Pakistan

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, May 24, 2012 16:27
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Tuesday, November 29, 2011 7:07 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I didn't notice anyone posting about the air strike...I wonder why? Now THAT is truly a real world event!
Quote:

Tensions among Pakistan, Afghanistan and the United States jumped a notch Monday, with Pakistan's prime minister warning there would be "no more business as usual" with Washington after NATO aircraft killed two dozen Pakistan troops.

Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani told CNN in an exclusive interview that Pakistan is re-evaluating its relationship with the United States in light of the airstrike, which NATO called a "tragic unintended" event. He said the South Asian nation wants to maintain its relationship with the United States so long as there is mutual respect and respect for Pakistani sovereignty.

Asked directly if Pakistan is getting that respect, Gilani said: "At the moment not."

"If I can't protect the sovereignty of my country, how can we say that this is mutual respect and mutual interest?" he asked.

The Pakistani Taliban urged Pakistan to respond in kind to the airstrike, while a top adviser to Afghan President Hamid Karzai warned that Afghanistan and Pakistan could be on a path to conflict.

In his CNN interview, Gilani highlighted incidents such as the killing of the Pakistani troops and a U.S. raid into Pakistan to kill Osama bin Laden as violations of his country's sovereignty.

"You cannot win any war without the support of the masses ... and such sort of incidents makes people move away from this situation," he said.

Pakistan is a vital land supply route into Afghanistan for the United States and its allies, and a key partner in the battle against al Qaeda and its aligned jihadist movements. But Pakistani authorities turned back 300 trucks carrying NATO supplies and fuel into Afghanistan on Monday, and the prime minister said his government had not yet decided whether to boycott an upcoming Bonn conference on the future of Afghanistan.

Details of Saturday's deadly raid remained unclear Monday, and the chief of U.S. forces in the region named an Air Force general from the military's Special Operations Command to lead an investigation. Gen. James Mattis ordered the investigating officer, Brig. Gen. Stephen Clark, to report back to him by December 23.

According to two senior U.S. officials with direct knowledge of initial reporting on the incident, the probe is focusing on what coordination failures occurred before the airstrike.

One of the officials said initial reports indicate U.S. and Afghan forces said shots were fired across the border from Pakistan, noting that it is a known tactic of insurgents to fire into Afghanistan from very close to Pakistan border checkpoints because they believe it will give them sanctuary. The United States believes the Pakistanis "were called" before NATO opened fire, the official said, but he added that "at this point, we just don't know exactly what coordination was done."

A NATO official said Afghan troops were working with elements of U.S. Special Operations forces in a combined mission on the Afghan side of the border.

Pakistani military spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas denied the reports that Pakistani troops had prompted the attack Saturday by firing on the NATO helicopters. Speaking by phone to Pakistan's Geo TV News, Abbas said NATO helicopters fired first on the Pakistani military checkpoints.

Abbas said the soldiers notified Pakistani military headquarters, which informed NATO authorities immediately. The spokesman said Pakistani soldiers fired at the NATO aircraft in retaliation.

Speaking in London, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Martin Dempsey, acknowledged that the U.S.-Pakistani relationship was "troubled." But he suggested it would survive once the two nations work through the "real tragedy" of the Pakistani deaths.

"We've had other moments before," Dempsey said. "I'm hopeful that with the relationships we've built leader-to-leader and worked at over the past years, that we can find our way forward. But I understand the anger. I understand the concern."

The White House offered its condolences to Pakistan, while State Department spokesman Mark Toner said Washington was concerned about the impact the incident could have on relations with Pakistan.

"The relationship is vitally important to both countries. We both face a shared threat from extremists. ... We're taking this very seriously," he said.

A U.S. official who spoke on condition of anonymity told CNN that Pakistan remains a "critical" partner in counterterrorism, "and we do not anticipate significant changes in that relationship."

The Pakistani Taliban appeared to try to widen the rift Monday. A spokesman for the fundamentalist Islamic movement, Ihsanullah Ihsan, said in a phone call to CNN that the U.S. will infringe on Pakistan's sovereignty and continue operations on Pakistani soil in the coming days.

Ihsan said Pakistan must respond in kind to the NATO attacks, and he warned that the Pakistani Taliban will continue jihad as long as Pakistan remains an ally of the United States.

In Kabul, meanwhile, a senior adviser to President Karzai said Afghanistan and Pakistan may be on a course toward military conflict.

Ashraf Ghani said the link between Pakistan and the assassination of a former Afghan president had united his country "against interference."

Ghani accused Pakistan of harboring and assisting the insurgency in Afghanistan, and said his country's neighbor probably helped the suicide bomber who killed former Afghan President Burhanudin Rabbani in September.

"The assassination of President Rabbani has gelled the nation together against interference. And one or two more actions could put us in an irreversible course (toward) conflict. And we've shown through our history that we are a match for any invader," he said.

The two nations have been trading accusations in the border regions in the past few months, with Pakistan accusing the Afghans of harboring militants and Afghanistan claiming Pakistani shells have hit Afghan territory.

But on Sunday, a spokesman for Karzai urged Pakistan to come to the Bonn conference, which is being billed as a chance to start a reconciliation process in Afghanistan.

"We want Pakistan to participate in that. We want Pakistan to be part of the solution in Afghanistan," Aimal Faizi said. http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/28/world/asia/pakistan-us/index.html

"Where do we go, from here?"

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Tuesday, November 29, 2011 7:20 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Our withdrawal is well overdue.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Tuesday, November 29, 2011 1:15 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



So, Mr Nobel Peace Prize is killin' more of our S. Asian Muslim brothers, is he ?

I keed, I keed!

Lotta finger pointin' going on. But friendly fire..I guess it happens.



"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Tuesday, November 29, 2011 9:43 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Uh Oh, this sounds like trouble.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Saturday, April 28, 2012 9:08 AM

OONJERAH



Pakistan wants apology for U.S. border killings
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012-04-28/pakistan-us-talks/
54601734/1


ISLAMABAD (AP) — American attempts to rebuild its relationship with Pakistan
appear to be stuck on the issue of a U.S. apology for killing 24 Pakistani border
troops last November.

U.S. officials visited Pakistan on Friday for talks on rebooting the relationship,
but left without any agreement. A statement Saturday from the Pakistani
president's office said Asif Ali Zardari told the visiting U.S. officials that
Washington needed to help Pakistan reach "closure" over the killings of the
soldiers on the Afghan border by following recommendations by the Pakistani
parliament.

The parliament has asked Washington to apologize for the incident. The United
States has expressed regret, but has declined to specifically say it is sorry.

Pakistan shut U.S. and NATO supply lines to Afghanistan to protest the deadly
U.S. air strikes, cut most contacts with Washington and ordered American drone
aircraft to leave a base in the south of the country. The U.S. wants Pakistan
to reopen the supply lines, preferably ahead of a May 20-21 summit of NATO
leaders in Chicago.

The Defense Department has said U.S. forces — given what information they had
available to them at the time — reacted in self-defense and with appropriate
force after being fired upon from the direction of the Pakistani border in the
Nov. 26 incident.

The visit by Mark Grossman, who is Washington's envoy for Afghanistan & Pakistan,
was his first to Pakistan since the November incident.

Pakistan used the border incident to try to extract better terms from Washington,
which sees Pakistan as an essential — if unreliable — ally against al-Qaida and
vital to the sustainability of any peace deal with insurgents fighting in neighbor-
ing Afghanistan.

The border deaths were the latest in a series of incidents over the last 18 months
that severely damaged U.S.-Pakistani relations. The killing of two alleged Pakistani
assailants by CIA security officer Ray Davis in Lahore in January 2011 and the
U.S. Navy SEAL raid that killed Osama bin Laden in Pakistan in May, without
Pakistani permission, also contributed to the decline.

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Sunday, April 29, 2012 11:39 AM

OONJERAH



Pakistan reveals efforts to hunt down Osama bin Laden =>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/29/pakistan-efforts-hunt-osam
a-bin-laden


For almost a year, Pakistan's security establishment has been in a state
of deep fury and embarrassment over the killing of Osama bin Laden. But
its annoyance, US diplomats note, has not been directed at how the world's
most wanted man could have lived inside the country for so long, but rather
at how a US team could have got in and out of its territory undetected.

So far, there have been no arrests of sympathisers who might have helped
Bin Laden move around Pakistan undetected before settling in the town of
Abbottabad. Authorities appear more concerned with investigating what they
see as a gross violation of sovereignty that badly damaged the prestige and
reputation of the powerful Pakistani military.

The only known arrest has been of Dr. Shakil Afridi, who worked in Abbot-
tabad as part of the CIA effort to try to pinpoint the al-Qaida chief.
A Pakistani commission investigating Bin Laden's death recommended Afridi
be charged with "conspiracy against the state of Pakistan and high treason".




. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.


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Sunday, April 29, 2012 11:40 AM

OONJERAH



U.S. drone strikes resume in Pakistan; action may complicate vital negotiations =>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/us-drone-strikes-resu
me-in-pakistan-action-may-complicate-vital-negotiations/2012/04/29/gIQAIprqpT_story.html


ISLAMABAD, Pakistan— The United States resumed drone missile strikes
against Pakistan-based militants Sunday for the first time since the
nation’s parliament demanded an end to such attacks as one of several
conditions for fully normalizing relations with the United States.

The strikes, which have for years infuriated the Pakistani public, killed
four al-Qaeda-linked fighters in a girls’ school they had taken over in
the North Warizistan tribal agency, security officials there said.

Pakistan’s foreign office condemned the attacks.

Even though few of Pakistan’s leaders seriously expected the United
States to stop its eight-year-long drone war against extremists, the
resumption of the strikes may complicate efforts to repair perpetually
strained relations between Washington and Islamabad at a particularly
sensitive time.

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:34 AM

OONJERAH



Senate committee cuts Pakistan aid over conviction =>
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g1BkaLuKXvE1gWEJSjTR
W2bZsezQ?docId=b35bff82804641bba498bf7aaffcac44


WASHINGTON (AP) — A Senate panel expressed its outrage Thursday over Pakistan's
conviction of a doctor who helped the United States track down Osama bin Laden,
cutting aid to Islamabad by $33 million — $1 million for every year of the physician's
33-year sentence for high treason.

The punitive move came on top of deep reductions the Appropriations Committee had
already made to President Barack Obama's budget request for Pakistan, a reflection
of the growing congressional anger over its cooperation in combatting terrorism.
The overall foreign aid budget for next year had slashed more than half of the pro-
posed assistance and threatened further reductions if Islamabad fails to open over-
land supply routes to U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan.

Pushing aside any diplomatic talk, Republicans and Democrats criticized Pakistan one
day after the conviction of Shakil Afridi. The doctor ran a vaccination program for the
CIA to collect DNA and verify bin Laden's presence at the compound in Abbottabad
where U.S. commandos found and killed the al-Qaida leader in May 2011.

The United States has called for Afridi's release, arguing that he was acting in the
interest of the United States and Pakistan . . .



. . .
=========================
I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it. ~Charles R Swindoll

If I have to react to others all the time, then they own my mind more than I do.
If I let others tell me how to feel, I lose my ability to choose happiness.
If I let others tell me who I am, I've vacated self-definition.
Finally, I realized how foolish I was to give others such

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:58 AM

BYTEMITE


You know... Osama Bin Laden was kind of a scum bag, but if some guy who'd taken the hippocratic oath and everything was acting as a doctor running a vaccination clinic in America just to take DNA samples for a foreign government's assassination programs, I'd want that asshole convicted too.

The US doesn't have diplomacy, it has hostages, guns, and demands.

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:09 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Byte:

The US doesn't have diplomacy, it has hostages, guns, and demands.



Mind if I borrow that for my new signature?


About foreign spies running vaccination clinics, CTS has convinced me of this one: Vaccines are a weapon of war. I would consider anyone in such a business to be an automatic suspect of being another Mengele. I don't a vaccination specialist, I mean someone running one in a foreign land while being a spy for your enemy. It's a great way to get in on genocide. Just saying it's not an innocent post, not after what we did in africa and the former ussr.

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:27 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
You know... Osama Bin Laden was kind of a scum bag, but if some guy who'd taken the hippocratic oath and everything was acting as a doctor running a vaccination clinic in America just to take DNA samples for a foreign government's assassination programs, I'd want that asshole convicted too.

The US doesn't have diplomacy, it has hostages, guns, and demands.


Ayep - and remember what I said about WHY vaccination programs overseas are not trusted, and how they have bloody good reasons for it, resulting often enough in the double whammy of epidemics from not vaccinating, AND vaccine caused epidemics as well, plus fear of medical experimentation or other chicanery ?
Yeah, not helping the credibility cause there, is it now ?

Also, drones ? THIS.

Groups Concerned Over Arming Of Domestic Drones
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/05/23/groups-concerned-over-arming
-of-domestic-drones
/

When you consider SWATTING(1) via spoofed numbers and other prank bullshit, and how ridiculously unsecure the control channels of these damn drones are, how long before some hacker takes over an armed drone for a prank or petty revenge on someone ?

Remember also what I said about the dickheads of this world handing us the very means to defeat them.
He who controls skynet, controls the social order.

-Frem
(1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatting

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