REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Obama casts Republicans as party of the rich

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Thursday, November 10, 2022 07:39
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Saturday, July 17, 2010 4:34 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Or just being obstructionist?

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE66G0LD20100717?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a
49:g43:r4:c0.043503:b35760698:z0


Quote:

"They say we shouldn't provide unemployment insurance because it costs money," chided Obama.

"So after years of championing policies that turned a record surplus into a massive deficit, including a tax cut for the wealthiest Americans, they've finally decided to make their stand on the backs of the unemployed," he said.


Ouch.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Saturday, July 17, 2010 9:17 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Yup, it's true. Also, Boehner claims that tax cuts like Bush's cuts for the top 2% of the richest people DON'T have to be funded or paid for, because they actually INCREASE revenue, and don't cost anything at all.

So if we just eliminate all taxes immediately, we'll raise revenue so high we'll magically eliminate all deficits and erase the national debt, right?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Saturday, July 17, 2010 9:30 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



When's the last time you were hired by a poor person?


The Lefties are out in full force, trying to save their hides come November.

Racial division - check

Class warfare - check






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Saturday, July 17, 2010 10:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Let's see you make a GOOD argument for why the Republicans have blocked unemployment funding because it's "not paid for", yet make the argument that tax cuts should never have to be paid for? I love that one, it really tickled me.

Also, find me a few rich people who aren't Republican, and I might just be interested. Because unless you can do both, it's just more

I'll wait...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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Saturday, July 17, 2010 10:59 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Yup, it's true. Also, Boehner claims that tax cuts like Bush's cuts for the top 2% of the richest people DON'T have to be funded or paid for, because they actually INCREASE revenue, and don't cost anything at all.

So if we just eliminate all taxes immediately, we'll raise revenue so high we'll magically eliminate all deficits and erase the national debt, right?



Of course Kwicko! Don't you see it: the wealthy get those tax cuts and immediately use that extra money for wages so they can hire new workers. They would NEVER just buy a bigger yacht or build a bigger boathouse on their summer home, or get another liposuction for those love handles. They'd certainly never put that money into junk real estate bonds with their favorite wall street big bank, hoping to make to make out big so that new boathouse can have its own swimming pool and bowling alley attached.

The rich haven't been doing any of that, which is why after several years with these tax cuts in place the economy is chugging along happily and no one is unemployed...

Um... oops. Maybe not.

Also:



http://www.offthechartsblog.org/whose-deficit-is-it-anyway/

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Saturday, July 17, 2010 11:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Welfare generates no $.

Governments can only take $ from its citizens, or borrow money. It never generates wealth.

Hand outs, welfare, unemployment.... doesn't matter what you call it, comes from the Gov't via the 2 methods above.

Quote:

Also, find me a few rich people who aren't Republican, and I might just be interested. Because unless you can do both, it's just more


AlGore
Bill Gates
George Soros
John ( I served in Vietnam ) Kerry
The entire Kennedy clan
Nancy Pelosi....


I ain't got all day. You get the idea.

Niki, you just asked a very, very stupid question.

Just so you know.




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Saturday, July 17, 2010 12:28 PM

MAL4PREZ


Let's just clarify the situation: W gave tax cuts to the wealthy and within a bare handful of years the economy crashed due to those same wealthy abusing their wealth, creating new and foolhardy methods of high stakes gambling on Wall Street. And the solution is to CONTINUE handing our money to the wealthy? Because this time they'll opt to go humanitarian and create jobs with it?



-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Saturday, July 17, 2010 12:31 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Let's just clarify the situation: W gave tax cuts to the wealthy and within a bare handful of years the economy crashed due to those same wealthy abusing their wealth, creating new and foolhardy methods of high stakes gambling on Wall Street. And the solution is to CONTINUE handing our money to the wealthy? Because this time they'll opt to go humanitarian and create jobs with it?






Nothing you stated in the above post is anywhere near the truth. Most of those wealthy sub prime tycoons were Democrats. Handling WHOSE money ? Come again? Did you just say we're handling OUR money to the wealthy? OH, please! That's...well,rich!






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Saturday, July 17, 2010 12:43 PM

MAL4PREZ


Oh gawd! That smell again! It's like a sewage truck hit a skunk that'd been eating garlic, then left the corpse out in the desert for a few days.

Blech!

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Saturday, July 17, 2010 12:44 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Most of the low-income people I know are Republicans. Even those on government assistance. The fact that this is not logical doesn't seem to make it any less the case.

I also add that many of the Tea Partiers/Ron Paul Libertarians I knew in 2007-2008 were low-income chaps.

--Anthony



Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Saturday, July 17, 2010 1:00 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Most of the low-income people I know are Republicans. Even those on government assistance. The fact that this is not logical doesn't seem to make it any less the case.

Regardless of party, I think it's sounder economics to reduce the wage divide, rather than increasing it. I never mentioned party: the fact is, the wealthy, whoever they may be, have had their tax cuts for several years. Look where it took us.

Time to try something different. Time for the much much larger part of the population to have more of their wages to keep. The job creation follows: they spend more, jobs must be created to serve them.

It doesn't take extra employees to build the 60 ft yacht rather than the 55, or to invest $400K in those mortgage stocks rather than $350K. It does take more employees to build and sell 2,000 more TVs, or serve 10,000 more dinners at the local strip mall restaurant.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Saturday, July 17, 2010 1:38 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I don't think we disagree, Mal. I was just disputing the rich Republican theory.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Saturday, July 17, 2010 1:48 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yup, stupid question. Of course there are rich Democrats. Told you I was rummy today. If I had the energy I'd see what the ratio is to rich CORPORATE Republicans to Democrats, but it's not worth it.

Mal4 makes the argument for me, I'll let it rest at that.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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Saturday, July 17, 2010 7:47 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Class warfare - check
Huh! I guess there's a reason for guns after all!

Ready, aim...

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 4:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Huh! I guess there's a reason for guns after all!
Ready, aim...

Wow. Where are all the pro-gun peeps around here? I woulda thought they'da been here going "FUCK YEAH!!!" Looks like they're only for guns when it looks like nobody's gonna shoot back. Heh!

Quote:

Welfare generates no $. Governments can only take $ from its citizens, or borrow money. It never generates wealth. Hand outs, welfare, unemployment.... doesn't matter what you call it, comes from the Gov't via the 2 methods above.
Rappy:
Quote:

Capitalism doesn't generate wealth. CEO's can only take $$ from the workers, or create fictitious money in banks. It never generates wealth. Profit, bonuses, golden toilets... doesn't matter. Comes from the people via force.


Rappy, I saw from your post on racism/ discrimination that you can be quite a reasonable fellow, so let me talk to you reasonably and hope to get a similar response.

What is "wealth"? It's not money, that's for sure. Because we all agree (I think) that money is a fictitious entity... it only has value because we all agree that it does. There is nothing "intrinsically" valuable about green pieces of paper or bytes in a computer (or shiny pieces of metal or cowrie shells for that matter).

No, money is used to represent wealth, but it is not itself "wealth".

So, what IS wealth?

Wealth is things... houses, cars, refrigerators, food, clean water. "Wealth" isn't created by capitalism, because capitalism doesn't create things. In capitalism, you can make money on money without ever having created a single thing: you can speculate in diamonds for example, or screw people out of rent money, or loan out money you don't have without a single house, car, or refrigerator having been built. No... WORK creates things. "Toyota" doesn't "make" cars, PEOPLE do. (Sounds like a Chevron commercial, doesn't it?) Neither government NOR corporations "create wealth"; all they do is take money from the people who do the REAL wealth creation, so on that score they're even.

What is "the economy"? It's also NOT money. It is the production, exchange, use, and consumption of things. Again, money is a convenient marker which facilitates that exchange, but if I print another hundred billion dollars have I expanded "the economy"? No, not really! All I've done is devalued money.

So, what about money anyway?

Well, the problem with money is that it CONCENTRATES. It's like gravity: the more you have, the more you have. And when a lot of money collects in the hands of a few people, the real economy slows down. Concentrated money is like blood pooling in the heart... it doesn't do any good unless it's circulating.

The purpose of re-distributing money is actually to keep capitalism afloat. If you want to see what happens when you DON'T redistribute money, look at Mexico: a lot of very poor people, a few unimaginably wealth people... and not much going on, economically-speaking. Per capita GDP is low. In general, you will find that the greater the spread of income between rich and poor, the lower the per capita GDP. Maximum profit and maximum wealth inequality is actually very short-sighted capitalist thinking because that runs over a cliff over a few decades. It's only been the application of Keynesian economics ... the redistribution of wealth... which has prevented the "Kondratieff Winter" and the collapse of the economy. But it's been working so well that capitalists assume success was due to capitalism itself. Gotta tell ya... even Greenspan had to retract that notion.

GREENSPAN: I WAS WRONG
www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/24/economics-creditcrunch-federal
-reserve-greenspan


I knew the economy was in deep shit when it hit an inequity of money distribution not seen since 1929.

That is not a coincidence! Inequitable distribution past a certain point brings on economic collapse. We've been through this four times as a nation... you'd think the capitalist wanna-be's would learn. My tagline for the years preceding the meltdown (September 2008) was "Let's party like it's 1929". I removed the tagline because my prediction came true. If you really parse the evidence like you say you do, then you should parse that.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 5:06 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Capitalism doesn't generate wealth. CEO's can only take $$ from the workers, or create fictitious money in banks. It never generates wealth. Profit, bonuses, golden toilets... doesn't matter. Comes from the people via force.



If you're paying any CEO for the work you do, then you're in the wrong job. No business takes $$ FROM WORKERS. The lack of basic business understanding boggles the mind here.

That one response by you, that CEOs take money from workers, shows me that any attempt to converse w/ you on this matter, is pointless.

You clearly have no clue what you're talking about, at all.





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Sunday, July 18, 2010 5:07 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Let's see you make a GOOD argument for why the Republicans have blocked unemployment funding because it's "not paid for", yet make the argument that tax cuts should never have to be paid for? I love that one, it really tickled me.

Also, find me a few rich people who aren't Republican, and I might just be interested. Because unless you can do both, it's just more

I'll wait...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off




Only in the mind of a crazed liberal do tax cuts have to be paid for..they are just tax cuts. We pay for spending not cuts. There is an underlying presumption of ownership of persons property in that logic that can only be fostered in the mind of a delusional whore. Niki2 try this out...cut spending and cut taxes it's called budgeting. Tax cuts do not get paid for it just means we have less to spend.

-------------------------------------------------
Niki2 YOU lean Libertarian? Are you smoking crack again? You are as much a libertarian as I am a Liberal whore. You wouldn't know a thing about personal liberty if it was fucking you in the ass....Well, it's true...

As for being swayed or changing beliefs based on what these clowns say. Nope. You would have to be fucking brain dead to be influenced by this group of nutjobs. I gave up years ago even trying to debate these idiots. Really, where is the honesty and integrity? We have NIKI2 saying she leans libertarian. How in heaven can you debate that without telling her she is a foolish idiot?







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Sunday, July 18, 2010 5:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Of course the owners take wealth from the workers. Owners, as owners, produce nothing. If the "owners" were gone, the factories could keep on churning out cars, or windows, or refrigerators... really, nobody would notice the lack (except the owners of course!) In fact, things would probably work a lot more smoothly... there would be more reinvestment in new technology and less perks up at top, better wages and less speculation, higher aggregate demand and more production, more savings and less credit.
Quote:

The lack of basic business understanding boggles the mind here. .. You clearly have no clue what the fuck you're talking about, at all.

Predictably, you haven't addressed any of my points substantively so I expect that you know little - if anything- about economics. I really think you should read up on economic theory. Grab ANY classic on economics, I don't care which Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith, The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money by Keynes, or even The Worldly Philosophers by Heilbroner. These guys are dyed-in-the-wool capitalists, but they say much the same as I do. Expand your scope of thought and dare to tread where capitalist theorists have gone before.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 5:56 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Capitalism doesn't generate wealth. CEO's can only take $$ from the workers, or create fictitious money in banks. It never generates wealth. Profit, bonuses, golden toilets... doesn't matter. Comes from the people via force.



If you're paying any CEO for the work you do, then you're in the wrong job. No business takes $$ FROM WORKERS. The lack of basic business understanding boggles the mind here.

That one response by you, that CEOs take money from workers, shows me that any attempt to converse w/ you on this matter, is pointless.

You clearly have no clue what you're talking about, at all.




No CEO *EARNS* hundreds of millions of dollars per year. There is nothing that he has CREATED with his own hands that is worth that much money. Generally, it's made on the backs and hard work of underpaid employees, many of whom are then thrown out of work because of the "business understanding" of money-hungry CEOs, anxious to cash in and cash out, and who gives a fuck about the "small people" anyway.

Any CEO getting paid hundreds of millions of dollars per year IS being paid by the workers, because there is simply no way anything HE does brings that much money to the company. Only the work of the workers can bring that kind of money to the company, unless the CEO is doing something illegal and/or unethical.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Sunday, July 18, 2010 6:08 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

...cut spending and cut taxes it's called budgeting. Tax cuts do not get paid for it just means we have less to spend.


Which means you have to "pay for" the tax cuts, in that you have to find where to spend less. Bush never even tried. Hell, Republicans have joked about it, how they never saw the need to pay for their spending under the Bush regime. They never made a peep about deficit spending when the Bush deficits were topping a trillion a year (and neither did you).

They've also not offered a single spending cut that would directly "pay for" the making the Bush tax cuts on the top 2% of the richest people permanent.



AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Sunday, July 18, 2010 6:11 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Administration sets wages. Ergo they set their own exhorbidantly high, rather than anything more equal which recognizes that workers actually MAKE things profits are based on. Thus they are "taking" money from their workers. Simple as that.

As to tax cuts, the current GOP's main stance is the deficit. Tax cuts (especially for the rich) affect the deficit. If they were truly interested in cutting the deficit they would recognize that tax cuts lower revenue, which means they add to the deficit. They should be paid for in order not to do that, if they actually cared about the deficit. The rest is the usual bullshit and irrelevant. End of story.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


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Sunday, July 18, 2010 6:11 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

...cut spending and cut taxes it's called budgeting. Tax cuts do not get paid for it just means we have less to spend.


Which means you have to "pay for" the tax cuts, in that you have to find where to spend less. Bush never even tried. Hell, Republicans have joked about it, how they never saw the need to pay for their spending under the Bush regime. They never made a peep about deficit spending when the Bush deficits were topping a trillion a year (and neither did you).

They've also not offered a single spending cut that would directly "pay for" the making the Bush tax cuts on the top 2% of the richest people permanent.



AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.




That is not paying. Buying less is not paying..again you have a presumption that the government has a right to peoples property and a certain tax level is concrete and any cut to said has to be paid for...Typical liberal...you are a lost case....and gay.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 6:30 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.



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Sunday, July 18, 2010 6:31 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Yup, it's true. Also, Boehner claims that tax cuts like Bush's cuts for the top 2% of the richest people DON'T have to be funded or paid for, because they actually INCREASE revenue, and don't cost anything at all.

So if we just eliminate all taxes immediately, we'll raise revenue so high we'll magically eliminate all deficits and erase the national debt, right?



Of course Kwicko! Don't you see it: the wealthy get those tax cuts and immediately use that extra money for wages so they can hire new workers. They would NEVER just buy a bigger yacht or build a bigger boathouse on their summer home, or get another liposuction for those love handles. They'd certainly never put that money into junk real estate bonds with their favorite wall street big bank, hoping to make to make out big so that new boathouse can have its own swimming pool and bowling alley attached.

The rich haven't been doing any of that, which is why after several years with these tax cuts in place the economy is chugging along happily and no one is unemployed...

Um... oops. Maybe not.

Also:



http://www.offthechartsblog.org/whose-deficit-is-it-anyway/

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left



That's an amazing chart, were the Bush era tax cuts that big?? I always assumed it was a symbolic and tactical thing (tax cuts to the wealthy) for the Dems to raise all the time. Fucking hell.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 12:25 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Siggy, I was gonna make a comment about how Guns have better range than pitchforks and torches, but I was wiped out, was a hectic night on the job last night, just a flood of those minor things which happen in the screwball hours of the night, and I hadda run off to another site to deal with a vehicle lockout so one of the clients guests could get them and their kids home, meh.

As for the core of the discussion at hand, I know I bring it up often, but again, I mention Mondragon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

Which has it's roots in Catalonian Anarchism, when they *did* throw out the bosses and the CEOs, resulting in not only a tremendous boost in productivity, but also in the happiness and economic situation of the population as a whole.

Keyesian and Austrian "economics" are just as ficticious as the "divine right of kings" and "better men" and "born better/born bad" - it's all fucking apologist bunk for an exploitive system based on a kind of classism that people have been trying to make excuses for ever since Plato started doing so.

I love how these pricks whine about entitlements and welfare, while supporting CEOs and execs who do damn near nothing and live so extravagantly by redistributing the actual WORK of the employees and the proceeds thereof to themselves - with military force in the offering should anyone care to make an issue of it.

Just because we put a polite veneer over it and pretend it's not exploitative debt-slavery doesn't mean that isn't what it is, what it has been ever since Feudalism, the Truck System, Company Store, and nowadays via the sneakier method of mandatory debt and inflation.

And till folks realize and admit it, ain't nothin gonna change.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, November 10, 2022 7:39 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Obama-Appointed Judge Tosses Out Colonel Vindman’s Lawsuit Against Trump’s Inner Circle

https://www.shorenewsnetwork.com/2022/11/09/obama-appointed-judge-toss
es-out-colonel-vindmans-lawsuit-against-trumps-inner-circle
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