FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Which one is your least favourite Firefly episode?

POSTED BY: KHYRON
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 14:07
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 20230
PAGE 3 of 4

Friday, May 26, 2006 8:42 PM

KAIN


Well if you have to pick a least favorite episode of the best show ever....The Message, but just becuz u know it was the funeral scene for the series and it's depressing.

Kain

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, June 3, 2006 3:57 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


War Stories, by far. How do I loathe thee? Let me count the ways:
Book's line at the snatch scene. Laser sights? He can tell that from the wounds? Ridiculous. He could have said that all three were shot in the face, without even time to duck. That calls for either a Magic Bullet, or three marksmen. So much talent not often found on a ship; more likely a space station.
Niska (who is familiar with the works of poetical psychotic dictators), and his professional torturer, decide to torture Mal & Wash, together (ie at the same time), but oriented so they can't see each other. Even if Niska was just a Sadist, the professional should have known this is the least effective scenario. Better to torture them separately; much better to torture one in view of the other.
The torturers never interrupt the dialogue betwixt Mal & Wash.
When Zoe ransoms Wash, she helps him from Niska's Skyplex. Wash slumps to his knees shortly after entering Serenity, yet when Zoe says Niska will torture Mal for days, Wash stands up and shows no further effects from the torture. Obviously, the torture wasn't serious.
Wash flies Serenity into Niska's Skyplex without slowing down. Not only does this not damage the Skyplex, nor even Serenity, but the airlocks get a good seal. No, this must be what "Ridiculous" feels like.
*** Why can't Joss or Tim ask for advice when they get into something they know nothing about? (eg shooting, torture, physics, anything involving action) ***
Mal is tortured to death, then resuscitated. Yet upon being left alone for a minute, Mal is able to arise, without making a sound, and strike Niska with enough force to knock him down.
And lest we forget, the crew stole medicine on a Core world, then fled to the Rim to fence it. They'd already sold some of it, perhaps most, and been paid. Why the !@#$%^&*()_+{}:"<>? did they go to the world Niska's Skyplex orbits?

This episode never really took place. It's all Wash's wet dream. Sure, the ep contains the most comprehensive, and concentrated, depiction of Wash's character (his weakness, petulance, selfishness, jealousy, cowardice, and inability to appreciate anyone's responsibilities on Serenity, not even his own), but that's a tad too concentrated for me. War Stories has no redeeming value.

Quote:

Originally posted by Khyron:
so is The Message, even though I thought there was some great drama (and a great musical score accompanying the funeral scene), but there were just too many loop holes in that one to make it enjoyable. Had the story been written in a way that avoids those loopholes but arrives at the same conclusion, then this might have been one of my favourites.


The last 8 minutes makes me forget the problems with the third 1/4, but I heartily endorse your last point.

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, June 4, 2006 9:58 AM

HURRICANEEZ1


I would say "Safe" but the ending was so cool that I cant put it down there. "Yeah...but she's our witch...now cut her down" is a classic line.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, June 5, 2006 7:00 AM

MRSU


I'm a 2-week-old fan and only watched the series twice - so far. :)

But I guess I already have the episode which I like the least: that would be "Message".
I think Tracey is very creepy and unpleasant: both to look at and to listen to. I want to fast-forward him all the time as he gets to my stomach. Him being "dead" and stuffed with all those organs doesn't help either.

Also I'm in the camp with those who think that Kaylee is being mean with Simon, and not only in this episode. She comes off looking more fool than him, plus he doesn't mean to offend with his goofs, but she does - when she retorts to him. I understand that she is young and insecure, and of course young people can hurt each others feelings a lot when dating - that's the part of growing up. I guess I'm just so past this stage that I can't remember how it was - and sympathize. :)

I like the final scene and the music there. But what spoils it for me a bit is that Simon there looks like young John Cleese from some early Monty Python.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, June 5, 2006 4:06 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


Quote:

Originally posted by sneaker98:
Why are so many people hating The Message?


A lot of (other) folks complain that Mal should have explained the plan to Tracy. What really bugs me is the basic setup for the ep: Tracy decides to stiff one organ smuggler for a better deal from someone else? What makes him think the new buyer would even try to revive him? Like Khyron, I'm sure a far better setup could have been written that still led to the same ep. But I don't see how the ending could've worked if Mal had explained the plan to Tracy.

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, June 5, 2006 4:12 PM

ELWOODMOM


I'd have to say that my favorite episodes are Ariel and War Stories. I wasn't able to watch Heart of Gold in its entirety, there was a flaw on my DVD set.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, June 5, 2006 5:30 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


Quote:

Originally posted by usagivindaloo:
The Message,
2) Look, I know that Simon is awkward and inept at talking to women, but jeez, Kaylee was a real bitch to him in this episode.
...snip...
But no, she treats him horribly for the rest of the episode until the very end. Which would be OK if the episode at least indicated that Kaylee is WRONG for behaving this way, that the mature response would be to giggle at Simon's awkwardness and let it pass! This complaint is also relevant in Safe (another of my least favourite episodes) and Jaynestown (though there it is redeemed by the scene in his room where he explains his politeness is his way of showing respect to her... did she just forget that?)


Wow, I never thought of that. Wonder if Joss did?

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 11:43 PM

AGENTROUKA


I'm really not sure...


EVERY episode, even the very best, even "Out of Gas" has its plotholes, but with the very best you don't notice so much.



I guess the ones I re-watch the least are:

"Shindig" - Atherton was made so pointlessly wooden! Why couldn't they have let him stay charming and made it a real "win" for Mal, as opposed to him being the obvious better choice because "Ath Is Evil!" That was... stupid. Mainly because it makes Inara look stupid, which we know she is not.

"Our Mrs. Reynolds" - I love Saffron, and it has great character moments and hilarious bits, but I just can't get over the ridiculousness that no one on that boat questions the validity of a marriage that takes place without one party knowing about it. Meh. Instead they all blame Mal as if he's always been the posterchild for slavery or such. Huh?

"Heart of Gold" - again with the wooden villain. And Mal's showdown with Burgess... Gah. I can't watch it it's so silly and really takes away from the brilliance of the character development that takes place in that episode.
I mean, they have such great moments there and then? Battery jokes? Funny-looking horse-riding?


But that's it. All other episodes dazzle away their (fewer) shaky parts with the brilliance of everything else.



One thought for "The Message":
What if Mal's not telling Tracey about the plan was intentional? The moment Tracey pulls that gun on them in the cockpit, Mal decides that he a threat to Serenity, nothing more nothing less, and there is exactly one course of action left to follow: eliminate.
It's stupid because it ends up endangering Kaylee, but it really is the only hand-waving reason I can come up with that explains Mal's not opening his mouth and explaining the plan, AND it adds a nice, twisted, dark shade to the action and Mal's fatherly gentleness once Tracey is no longer a threat. *g*

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 29, 2006 2:10 PM

JREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by YT:
War Stories, by far. How do I loathe thee? Let me count the ways:
Book's line at the snatch scene. Laser sights? He can tell that from the wounds? Ridiculous. He could have said that all three were shot in the face, without even time to duck. That calls for either a Magic Bullet, or three marksmen. So much talent not often found on a ship; more likely a space station.
Niska (who is familiar with the works of poetical psychotic dictators), and his professional torturer, decide to torture Mal & Wash, together (ie at the same time), but oriented so they can't see each other. Even if Niska was just a Sadist, the professional should have known this is the least effective scenario. Better to torture them separately; much better to torture one in view of the other.
The torturers never interrupt the dialogue betwixt Mal & Wash.
When Zoe ransoms Wash, she helps him from Niska's Skyplex. Wash slumps to his knees shortly after entering Serenity, yet when Zoe says Niska will torture Mal for days, Wash stands up and shows no further effects from the torture. Obviously, the torture wasn't serious.
Wash flies Serenity into Niska's Skyplex without slowing down. Not only does this not damage the Skyplex, nor even Serenity, but the airlocks get a good seal. No, this must be what "Ridiculous" feels like.
*** Why can't Joss or Tim ask for advice when they get into something they know nothing about? (eg shooting, torture, physics, anything involving action) ***
Mal is tortured to death, then resuscitated. Yet upon being left alone for a minute, Mal is able to arise, without making a sound, and strike Niska with enough force to knock him down.
And lest we forget, the crew stole medicine on a Core world, then fled to the Rim to fence it. They'd already sold some of it, perhaps most, and been paid. Why the !@#$%^&*()_+{}:"<>? did they go to the world Niska's Skyplex orbits?

War Stories has no redeeming value.




I'd have to agree with YT here. War Stories is my least favorite. Niska's quoting of Shan Yu right after Book and Simon's discussion of the dictator was a little too neat and tidy. And Niska's hammy performance doesn't help.

The episode seemed a little desperate to me - torture, lesbian sex, a gun-slinging shoot-em-up finale, etc. It was the first episode I watched where I really felt the writing was sub-par. Sure, other episodes have plot holes, but I can overlook them because the basic writing and the characters are so good. But I felt like this episode was playing a little too fast and loose with the characters. Mal telling Wash he's going to sleep with Zoe during the torture scene left a bad taste in my mouth, even though it was justified by him keeping Wash awake. I dunno, it just seemed like this episode wasn't trying as hard as some of the others.

I also agree that many of the action scenes in the series could have used a little more expertise (does it bother anyone else that during flashback scenes of the war, Mal is always shooting from the hip, something that a trained soldier would never, ever do?)

But hey, I'd still probably rather watch this episode than just about anything else on TV. Except for new episodes of Firefly.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, July 1, 2006 7:29 PM

EXODUS


I found Jaynestown to be my least favourite episode. I never really liked the idea of Jayne being a hero nor did I like the planet they were on and the people that inhabited it. I never really hated this episode, it was just not as appealing as the other episodes.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, July 1, 2006 8:05 PM

THEVERSE51


"The Train Job" - as I posted on another thread I'm a relatively recent Firefly convert (around 3 months). I had seen the show advertised but even as a scifi fan it didn't really catch my interest and I only saw parts of a couple of shows in the middle of their run. After I rented the series and the movie and was hooked I was amazed that "The Train Job" was the first episode aired. Talk about cliches, and you're pretty much dropped right into the middle of the series despite some of the usual good writing in some scenes. I guess that one of the reasons I don't like this episode is due to FOX's screwup in airing it as the first one without any background.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, July 6, 2006 10:54 AM

RAKARR


Shindig for me... That was easy... I'll even go as far as saying I hate that episode....

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, July 6, 2006 11:05 AM

FIREFLYFAN16


I hate Our Mrs. Reynolds

It's okay. I'm a leaf on the wind.-Wash

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, July 6, 2006 11:07 AM

FIREFLYFAN16


I hate Our Mrs. Reynolds

It's okay. I'm a leaf on the wind.-Wash

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, July 6, 2006 11:07 AM

FIREFLYFAN16


I hate Our Mrs. Reynolds

It's okay. I'm a leaf on the wind.-Wash

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, July 6, 2006 11:11 AM

MSG


ok sweety we get it, you don't like that episode:)

Anyway, I guess I'm just terribly uncritical. I really love them all.
EDIT- ok I want to change my answer a bit...I like Ariel, but it upsets me ( the whole Jayne thing) so I am less likely to watch it:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, July 6, 2006 12:57 PM

TITIWAI


It has to be Safe. I hate the whole witch burning thing, it is so stupid.

San Nakji for President!

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 14, 2006 7:50 AM

ROCKXWL


Bushwhacked

"What'd you all order a dead guy for?"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, July 18, 2006 10:08 AM

THEMANTHEYCALLMATT


I'm not fond of Heart of Gold, but not because of what Mal did or the issue of parental rights or any of that stuff. I just thought it was kinda boring and not very good.

I also dislike the Message. Here, it's not about the storyline. I think it was wonderfully written. My reason for disliking it is that I absolutely HATE Tracey. His stupid whiny little voice and the way he manipulates Kaylee both just make me want to crawl out of my skin. Maybe it would have been okay with a different actor who didn't sound so whiny when doing a "dying voice". That said, I LOVE the teaser portion. The whole first scene is just awesome. Jayne's hat, River and the ice planet, Simon making a fool of himself, Wash's "My god, it's hideous! Oh, and there's something in a jar". All spectacularly shiny. That scene makes the episode worth it to me. Also, the funeral scene at the end almost brings a tear to my eye.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, July 20, 2006 8:19 AM

ALLISA


Shindig - the sword thing was just too....medieval - if they had wanted to keep it in the character of Firefly Verse Shindig would have the the ripoff of Samaruai

and I thought HoG was hilarious! esp Jayne ;)

You know what the chain of command is here? Its the chain I go get to beat you with to show you whose in command!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 21, 2006 2:21 PM

ONNAHINLI


safe by far. i really hated the whole shes a witch we gotta brun her up part. the one thing i did like was the bit of sheperd book(god his character has me stumped and it drives me nuts) and seeing how some of the other characters react to the thought of leaving river nad simon behind.

"I dont know. If i wanted schoolin' i would've went to school"
-Jayne

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, July 23, 2006 4:51 PM

WOLFPOET


Heart of Gold IS a good episode: "Say hello to your daddy, Jonah." *shoots* "Say goodbye to your daddy, Jonah."

Personally, I think Ariel is the worst episode. The plot is great, but that thing that makes your face bleed until you die.... even though I'm fascinated with blood it just freaks me out too much.



"We will rule over all this land, and we will call it... this land."
"I think we should call it YOUR GRAVE!"
"Oh, no, sudden yet inevitable betrayal."
-Wash

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 8, 2006 11:13 AM

TWILIGHTJACK


In brief defense of The Message:

"You mailed your ugly business to us, Tracey, and I will go to hell before I see you turn around and bite us for the favor."

Why didn't Mal tell Tracey about the plan? I've always felt that the line above outlines the reason pretty clearly. Tracey serves as a kind of foil to Simon here; both of them came aboard Serenity to get away from someone, and both did so under false pretense, trapping the crew in the middle of their troubles. The difference comes in how the two characters respond to the situation.

Although Simon bargains River's freedom against Kaylee's life in the pilot episode, he never presumes the help of the crew as his right. At all points, Simon is very aware of what he is risking, what he is paying, what he is getting himself into. He doesn't ever cross the line into the trap of demanding the crew's assistance as his due and proper. Also, he's defending his sister's life, not his own. His own life he would gladly throw away to protect River. In fact, in playing chicken with Mal over Kaylee's life, it's also his own life he's bartering away-and he knows it.

Tracey runs the opposite course. In the pilot episode, before Mal knows about River, he describes Simon as thinking his life is the only thing that matters. Of Tracey, that's completely true. He threatens the entire crew, including Kaylee (about whom he had professed to care), without even a pause to question or trust or even think about other options. Whether wrong or right, Mal's opinion here is that Tracey's actions dictate that he doesn't deserve an explanation. Furthermore, if you study the scene, Mal gives Tracey every opportunity to choose another way. He goes so far as to say that they're still trying to help Tracey and that the bullet wound "can be seen to." The one thing Mal doesn't do is explain the plan, because to do so validates Tracey's betrayal. For Mal, that's a matter of principal. His crew is family, and you don't turn on your family, no matter what. Tracey threw himself upon Serenity's mercy, and that--combined with Mal and Zoe's history with Tracey--marked him as potentially family as well, at least temporarily. Tracey betrayed that to save his own skin; he gets more than a small chance to come to his senses, but no explanation until he shows some regard for someone other than himself.

"You don't know me, son, so let me explain this to you once. If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed."

If we see the parallels between Simon and Tracey, it seems that Mal is good on his word.

Those who disagree with Mal's take on Tracey's action can easily see this as a fatal flaw of the episode, but knowing Mal's opinions regarding loyalty and family, I don't see any flaw here.

"No, son, you murdered yourself. I just carried the bullet awhile."









By the way, my least favorite episode was Safe. I love everything about the interactions between the characters; I love the first revelations of Book's secret life; I love Simon's overwhelming self-sacrifice on his sister's behalf. I just can't get past the burning at the stake. It does nothing to enhance our understanding/enjoyment of the story. Point of fact, it knocks my suspension of disbelief sideways every time. I don't have a problem with religious fanatics deciding that River's a witch. People fear and hate what they don't understand. It's the whole burning at the stake thing that ruins it for me. A different method of witchy execution would have fixed the whole thing for me, kept it novel and fresh. As it is, I cringe all the way through that scene until the Big Damn Heroes show up and rescue the scene from tackiness. Still, it ruins a perfectly good episode, in my opinion.

I love Heart of Gold, by the by. Sure, it's the Seven Samurai. I love the Seven Samurai. Mal/Inara goodness abounds. I totally buy Mal sleeping with Nandie, since I don't go in for the puritanical Mal theory that I keep seeing. He was more than ready to bang Saffron like a screen door, although ethical considerations of her "innocence" gave him significant pause. As far as the villain and main plot being uni-dimensional, consider this: without any member of his crew in danger, Mal is willingly assuming the role of the Big Damn Hero without it being forced upon him (for what some could say the first time since the war). The bad guy is irredeemably bad because this is the first time that we've seen Mal unequivocably good. It marks an important turning point for the character (or it could have, if Inara hadn't announced her departure immediately following). To me, it is a fascinating episode, in that the crew truly embraces a notion of themselves as heroes for the first (and last ) time.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 8, 2006 11:34 AM

AKREDHEAD


Um...so do you like any episodes? <---sarcasm.

I like "War Stories" because Wash and Mal have so much interaction and you learn more about Wash.




Quote:

Originally posted by Wolfpoet:
Heart of Gold isn't such a bad episode: "Say hello to your daddy, Jonah. *shoots* Say goodbye to your daddy, Jonah."

Personally, I think Ariel is the worst episode. The plot is okay, but it just freaks me out too much... just that thing that makes your face bleed until you die. Objects in Space and War Stories aren't so great either.



"We will rule over all this land, and we will call it... this land."
"I think we should call it YOUR GRAVE!"
"Oh, no, sudden yet inevitable betrayal."
-Wash




NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 8, 2006 11:39 AM

AKREDHEAD


I too looooved Heart of Gold...

I have like...almost zero empathy for Inara in that episode...here's her chance to say something...do something...

Can we blame Mal who apparently hadn't had sex in awhile...for sleeping with a smart, beautiful, powerful woman who, like him, is the keeper of girls like Mal is the captain of his crew?

I was genuinly happy (and turned on) for Mal...he deserved a good lover even if it was for a brief moment.

But then...I believe sex has more than 2 purposes in life...it doesn't have to be about love or procreation...it can be stress relief, affection, friendship, revenge, liberation...etc.

Quote:

Originally posted by TwilightJack:
In brief defense of The Message:

"You mailed your ugly business to us, Tracey, and I will go to hell before I see you turn around and bite us for the favor."

Why didn't Mal tell Tracey about the plan? I've always felt that the line above outlines the reason pretty clearly. Tracey serves as a kind of foil to Simon here; both of them came aboard Serenity to get away from someone, and both did so under false pretense, trapping the crew in the middle of their troubles. The difference comes in how the two characters respond to the situation.

Although Simon bargains River's freedom against Kaylee's life in the pilot episode, he never presumes the help of the crew as his right. At all points, Simon is very aware of what he is risking, what he is paying, what he is getting himself into. He doesn't ever cross the line into the trap of demanding the crew's assistance as his due and proper. Also, he's defending his sister's life, not his own. His own life he would gladly throw away to protect River. In fact, in playing chicken with Mal over Kaylee's life, it's also his own life he's bartering away-and he knows it.

Tracey runs the opposite course. In the pilot episode, before Mal knows about River, he describes Simon as thinking his life is the only thing that matters. Of Tracey, that's completely true. He threatens the entire crew, including Kaylee (about whom he had professed to care), without even a pause to question or trust or even think about other options. Whether wrong or right, Mal's opinion here is that Tracey's actions dictate that he doesn't deserve an explanation. Furthermore, if you study the scene, Mal gives Tracey every opportunity to choose another way. He goes so far as to say that they're still trying to help Tracey and that the bullet wound "can be seen to." The one thing Mal doesn't do is explain the plan, because to do so validates Tracey's betrayal. For Mal, that's a matter of principal. His crew is family, and you don't turn on your family, no matter what. Tracey threw himself upon Serenity's mercy, and that--combined with Mal and Zoe's history with Tracey--marked him as potentially family as well, at least temporarily. Tracey betrayed that to save his own skin; he gets more than a small chance to come to his senses, but no explanation until he shows some regard for someone other than himself.

"You don't know me, son, so let me explain this to you once. If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed."

If we see the parallels between Simon and Tracey, it seems that Mal is good on his word.

Those who disagree with Mal's take on Tracey's action can easily see this as a fatal flaw of the episode, but knowing Mal's opinions regarding loyalty and family, I don't see any flaw here.

"No, son, you murdered yourself. I just carried the bullet awhile."









By the way, my least favorite episode was Safe. I love everything about the interactions between the characters; I love the first revelations of Book's secret life; I love Simon's overwhelming self-sacrifice on his sister's behalf. I just can't get past the burning at the stake. It does nothing to enhance our understanding/enjoyment of the story. Point of fact, it knocks my suspension of disbelief sideways every time. I don't have a problem with religious fanatics deciding that River's a witch. People fear and hate what they don't understand. It's the whole burning at the stake thing that ruins it for me. A different method of witchy execution would have fixed the whole thing for me, kept it novel and fresh. As it is, I cringe all the way through that scene until the Big Damn Heroes show up and rescue the scene from tackiness. Still, it ruins a perfectly good episode, in my opinion.

I love Heart of Gold, by the by. Sure, it's the Seven Samurai. I love the Seven Samurai. Mal/Inara goodness abounds. I totally buy Mal sleeping with Nandie, since I don't go in for the puritanical Mal theory that I keep seeing. He was more than ready to bang Saffron like a screen door, although ethical considerations of her "innocence" gave him significant pause. As far as the villain and main plot being uni-dimensional, consider this: without any member of his crew in danger, Mal is willingly assuming the role of the Big Damn Hero without it being forced upon him (for what some could say the first time since the war). The bad guy is irredeemably bad because this is the first time that we've seen Mal unequivocably good. It marks an important turning point for the character (or it could have, if Inara hadn't announced her departure immediately following). To me, it is a fascinating episode, in that the crew truly embraces a notion of themselves as heroes for the first (and last ) time.




NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 8, 2006 12:45 PM

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN


I'd have to say The Message. It's not that I think that the episode is a bad one it's just the one I like the least. Heart of Gold comes in second.

"Well, my days of taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 8, 2006 6:48 PM

WOLFPOET



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 8, 2006 7:12 PM

WOLFPOET


All Firefly episodes are good, but Joss Whedon sometimes just does TOO good a job of scaring people... the first time I saw the Reavers I didn't sleep all night... but it was still compelling.

"We will rule over all this land, and we will call it... This Land."
"I think we should call it YOUR GRAVE!"
"Curse you, sudden yet inevitable betrayal."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 8, 2006 7:51 PM

TERRI


Jinkies, I know I sound like the requisite beaming Browncoat, but I love all the eps. Like, I can't even think of one that I wouldn't want to watch over and over again. And I can't see one that everbody on tv, shouldn't love. I get the almost overwhelming urge to go post by post and tell you all what's great about the episodes that you don't like. But everybody's entitled to their opinion. I do appreciate the fact that people aren't afraid to go up against such a topic that could become a trap for hostility. Trust me, naming the worst Brendan Fraser movie (whom I love) was hard, but once I faced that wall and conquered it, I was finally able to say that I didn't like Encino Man. *sniff* And maybe *sniff* some of you can relate to how hard that was to say.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, August 13, 2006 7:12 AM

KINGOFALLLONDINUM


I like all the episodes. Each one I enjoy immensely and each one has great moments in it.

But there are some I like more than others.

I love Jayne, but oddly enough I find the episode Jaynestown to be the one I watch the least.

There are great moments in that episode. Jayne is funny and shows some depth. The song is great.

But there is something about his old partner coming back that strikes me as a little contrived. I don't like that character, Stitch. He's too much, for lack of a better word, a cartoon to me.

And the magistrate's son standing up to him after Inarra gives the "I chose you..." speech, well, just seems kind of cliche to me.

Again, I like that episode, but it is the one I watch the least.

Interesting, Heart of Gold I love. And yes the villain in that could be characterized as kind of cartoony. But there is something about his conviction. Mal sums up best when he says there's nothing worse than someone who thinks he's right with God (or something like that). That makes Burges truly frightening. At least to me.

But of course the real reason I love HoG is the Mal/Inarra relationship. We see depths to that relationship in the episode. We see that another person recognizes their feelings for each other.

It fascinates me that Nandi would sleep would Mal knowing he is in love with Inarra. Does she use that to seduce him in some way? But then later when she sees Inarra's reaction she says if she would have known Inarra felt that way about Mal, she wouldn't have. She thought it was just Mal who had feelings for Inarra. Not the other way around.

I love that stuff.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:02 PM

BROWNCOATSAWAY


i don't have a least favortie episode i mean some are better than others, but they are all great. if i have to say anything negative i would have to say that i found wash and zoe's marriage a bit unnatural not because of the racial issue because i would love to see mal and zoe get it on, but just no chemistry there for me. not the kind of man i see zoe with

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, October 21, 2006 5:56 AM

DAGS


Heart of Gold.

The thinly veiled "Women have more right to children than men" social programming was insulting.

The story didn't make sense. If the man had a barren wife and wanted a child, wouldn't he have just paid the whore to have the child? Naddie said the girl slept with many clients. So we're supposed to buy that these whores just have sex until they get pregnant and then have the baby and raise them in the whorehouse while they return to whoring? Why weren't there more kids? Was this girl special in that she didn't use birth control? None of the other girls had babies. The whole thing seemed like she was a surrogate mother who backed out on the deal, not someone who was treated badly.


The only good parts were Jayne and his woman and Inara finally stepping into the trap she'd laid for herself regarding Mal.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, November 7, 2006 10:46 PM

NEVERMORE


Shindig, Jaynestown and War Stories are probably my three favorites.

My least favorites are prolly The Message, Bushwhacked or the Heart of Gold. I dunno exactly why, nothing i can put my finger on, just ones i enjoyed least than others.

no... thats not true.

When I'm watching them I enjoy them just as much, they are the ones that for some reason, when I'm selecting which episode to watch, I wonder if I should skip.

thats wierd.

lol.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, January 2, 2007 9:50 PM

KEVINGREY


Hard to pick a "least", but if I had to, it would probably be Shindig.

I guess, for me, it was just the "hokey" nature of Inara interfering with the fight, yet no one crying foul when Mal took the advantage to win.

Though, it was probably the fact that I knew it was coming all along.

In actuality, I was hoping that the night before the duel, Inara was going to show Mal some ancient swordplay trick, with a defense that was unlikely to be in Wing's repertoire and that Mal, though ungainly and otherwise supremely over-matched, would suddenly surprise Wing with, having practiced it singularly all night.

To me, it would have been more interesting than the "sudden" and "unexpected" (yeah right) bid by Inara to save Mal's ass and Wing's undisciplined, "Oh really? Let me stare at you for five minutes not realizing that I'm about to be beaten," response.

The only thing that saved the exchange for me, was Mal's treatment of Wing at the last. Funny that.

Having torn it to shreds, let me say that while my "least favorite" episode, it yet contains the saving grace of my favorite River moment when she confronts Badger. Priceless.

Which just goes to show what happens when you try to pick your "least favorite" million dollar diamond.







NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, January 5, 2007 1:05 AM

TATHRASEVENTEEN


My least favourites would by Jaynestown - I don't know what it is, but I just don't see Jayne the way everyone else does - and The Train Job, but only because it felt so rushed.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 8, 2007 2:12 PM

BEANS


edit - prolly bushwacked

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 8, 2007 2:22 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


I gotta say Heart of Gold for one very simple reason: The love scene with Mal and Nandi; it just always felt tacked-on and unnecessary, plus IMHO it didn't fit with the rest of the series the scene with Inara and the unnamed guy was necessary because it established her profession; but this one wasn't and it didn't serve to establish anything that couldn't have been by just leaving the sex implied.

woo, I finnaly got my one and only Firefly rant out, YAY ME! (runs and hides from thw women who loved that scene and are after his blood)

Why is the rum always gone?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 8, 2007 5:21 PM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE


Actually for me it was Heart of Gold too. I agree with Guy that that scene really wasn't neccesary...
Also, the story wasn't as good as the rest, the "bad guy" person seemed too shallow and one-sided, which wasn't like most of the other villains.

---------
Love keeps her in the air when she outta fall down, tells you she's hurting before she keels. Makes her a home.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 8, 2007 5:26 PM

PUMAMANREDUX


Dunno why but i have passed over Heart of Gold, Shindig, Safe and Our Miss Reynolds ....

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 8, 2007 7:36 PM

FASTMOVER


Our Mrs. Reynolds is actually one of my favorites because it's so interesting ti see the crew get played. I always feel uncomfortable with what Jayne did on Ariel, and I have to agree about The Message. The ship chase scene was pretty cool, though. Heart of Gold was a bit sappy, and I had always liked Firefly because they never overdid the love stories. Out of Gas was not so much bad, as hard for me to watch because it was tough seeing that proud ship and its proud crew stranded like that.

I am evil, I am sly, and if you get eaten no one will cry.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 8, 2007 9:05 PM

BEKKAHTHEFIREFLYFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by minra:

I had to tack this on to this "worst episode" thread as well.

Gold was easily the dumbest espisode of the bunch. It just does not mesh with the character Mal and what the whole crew is. They are scrounging for jobs all the time and they are *forced* to look out for number-one 90% of the time just to survive.

Who is Mal? "He's not an evil man... He hasn't lost his moral compass completely. He has just given up on the idea of the decency of human nature. Or that anything is worth fighting for, except the next meal and the people around him." ~Joss Whedon

Yet in Heart of Gold, Mal and the entire crew of firefly, risk DEATH in a deadly firefight - a western-style shootout because one hooker doesn't want to give up her baby. (cue Madonna song). The core of the conflict is this, and there's no exposition whatsoever to the interesting and real issues surrounding parental rights in a situation like this.

Instead, we get an entire firefly crew who is willing to kill, and be killed, as a favor.

We see the townsman whose barren wife won't give him a kid, which is reasonable motivation to seek a mother via a third party, yet the story is written to portray him with a shallowness that requires laser interferometry to measure. Why? They could have written him as the hardass town boss who has a valid motivation, but who botched negotiations with the whore. Or she could have been a surrogate who breached contract. All potentially interesting stories leading up to the conflict are ignored. There's not a fair protrayal of two legitimate interests in a conflict (something that Firefly does quite well in the alliance vs browncoat conflict).

To top it off, *it is assumed* that a woman has a higher claim to parenthood of an infant than a man. The attitude of this episode, the whole mental frame of reference is drenched in unjustified feminazi self-righteousness.

It's a mindless hackneyed cliche. It's just a dumbed-down good gals versus bad guys western bang-bang shootemup.

In defense of the producers, i see this as a protest against Fox, who had just cancelled the series during ep 12. To me this episode is a frustrated Firefly ranting at the lameness of the TV world "You want dreck? We can give you dreck! Here! See?"



I love the fact that you want there to be no stereotypes in a country town. And I love that you tag a woman's right to keep her baby OVER the right of some psycho with a big laser (who has, at that point already been shown saying to one of the girls 'get on your knees... this is what a woman should be to a man') ... that you tag THAT as 'feminazi'.
Are you this bigoted in your whole life, or are you just an idiot on forums?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, January 9, 2007 5:20 PM

CORNBREAD


My least favorite episode is the one where all of the overcritical dorks sit at home on their computers and tear apart a beautiful work of art presented in 14 parts. And one BDM.


But it's still better than anything else on tv. So that makes my statement and critique ok.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, January 10, 2007 3:53 AM

MISTERSOLIDUS


I'll go with many on this one: Heart of Gold.

My reason? I found the story to be dumb, but the sweet fight at the end kind of made up for it. Kind of. Not completely...


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, January 15, 2007 3:59 AM

CERIDWEN1977


My least favourite episode is War Stories, not because it is less appealing but because of the torture scenes which bring out a less appealing side of myself - they are really hard to watch because they are so graphic IMO yet at the same time they are so funny with the banter between Wash and Mal you can't help watching them. I can't believe something so sick could be so enjoyable. Oh and I have never been so overjoyed at a bad guy getting his just desserts only shame that Mal didn't manage to hurt Niska

They weren't cows inside. They were waiting to be, but they forgot. Now they see sky, and they remember what they are.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 1:29 AM

LEXAN


Shindig was probably the weakest of the bunch. I was surpised by this, as it was an episode penned by Jane Espenson, one of the best Buffy writers. Shindig just didn't seem to have as strong character relations, dialogue and insight into the series as the others have. All the Mal/Inara stuff was rather off and didn't really ring true to the characters...it was too ordinary and predictable. Not how I thought either of them would act.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:13 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Heart of Gold is definitely up there in my favorites. I was never a Mal/Inara shipper (please don't flame me), I never bought their chemistry, and both of their attitudes annoyed me to no end. They were never honest or open with each other, they just danced around and pretended and had all kinds of silly teenaged angst about it. To me, Mal's liason with Nandi (which seems to be the problem most people have with this episode) was totally logical. Nandi was direct with him, they had some good chemistry and some similar sensibilities. They actually liked each other and could communicate, on top of being attracted to each other. So that I had no problems with at all. The western showdown and doing the job as a 'favor' also made sense. Yes, they were always struggling to make end's meet, but Mal always roots for the underdog because he is one. i.e. "You're my kind of stupid." A 'senseless' showdown like this one not only followed a Western theme, but also the theme of Serenity Valley and fighting for the freedom to live. Only this time they won. There was also a brilliant deconstruction of the Goddess themes in this episode in 'Finding Serenity', which I highly recommend to anyone who hasn't read it.
And Rance did NOT deserve that baby just because he wanted it. Nandi was right when she said he wasn't fit to raise a cactus plant.
All in all, I adore this episode for many of the reasons others seem to have a problem with it.
I also have to defend Safe, because I think it's a brilliant episode. I could go point for point, but that could take days. There's nothing I don't like about it; it never fails to get a reaction out of me.
My two least favorite episodes after first burning through the series were Train Job and The Message, but both grew on me after the second viewing. they left me a little cold at first, but after I watched them again I just caught more and more nuance in them and enjoyed them a lot more. I think the science in The Message is a little... far-fetched, but it is science fiction, after all.
The episode I watch the least might be Our Mrs Reynolds, but that's because it's not quite as fun to watch when you know what's coming. It's good in a lot of ways, and has a lot of things going for it other than the element of surprise, but the surprise was a big deal the first time I saw it...
Damn good television.

[]

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:46 AM

SHINYED


Pressed on the issue, I'd have to say "Bushwhacked" is my least favorite episode.

There isn't much action, the crew gets caught by the Alliance, and one transforming Reaver seems to cause havoc amongst all those heavily armed soldiers.

That said, in this episode and all the others, there are many, many great moments & conversations...the little things, whatever they are, that make Firefly so unique and enjoyable.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, February 25, 2007 7:21 PM

BAGHEERA


Of all the episodes, I'd almost certainly have to go with Bushwacked.

There are definately episodes that have worse scenes in it, but those episodes also had better scenes in them.

Bushwacked is entirely forgettable, with no scenes or lines that stand out in my mind, and of all the episodes, I skip over it the most to get to the "good ones". The second one I skip over is Safe, but at least that ends with the "BIG DAMN HEROES, SIR." which almost makes the whole lousy episode worthwhile. (as well as showing some nice scenes of the characters in town, and Book plays a rare part in an episode for once).

I agree that Heart of Gold's plot is cliched, but well... thats kinda what Firefly is all about... taking what would otherwise be a cheap cliche and imbuing it with the shows character and emotion. Maybe Heart of Gold didnt succeed as well as some of the other cliched episodes did, but it DID have some decent scenes. The tangled web between Mal and Inara is brought up... the worst part of the show, imo... isnt the cliched plot... but how they build up how great the big bad evil guy's technology is... and the hovercraft and superscoperlasergun turn out to be little better then tin cans.

The Message easily had some of the worst scenes in the whole series, imo, but it also had some of the best, which kinda justifies it. Not only do I find the premise behind organ smuggling kinda weak to begin with... (ie... they cant smuggle the new-hightech-valuable organs... but they CAN smuggle his old organs through to replace them when they need to retrieve the smuggled organs ? issues....issues...) and then there's the "we'll spend weeks chasing this guy across the galaxy to recover our goods, but when we see he's shot AND STILL BREATHING WITH A MIRACLE DOCTOR ON BOARD we simply back off without bothering to confirm that he dies and the goods are worthless." but well... it was funny.. and funny goes a long way ... "so... who ordered the dead body ?"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, February 25, 2007 9:09 PM

AGENTROUKA


"Heart of Gold".

It's the one I just can't bring myself to rewatch - and not because of thee Mal/Inara tragedy, but because of the ridiculously lazy cardboard bad guy and resolution to the plot. I was thoroughly disappointed.

The only thing that saves it is the Mal/Inara aspect, for me, because it's just so deeply tragic. Inara rejects Mal because she can't be tied down, Mal's heart cracks and he spends a night with Nandi essentially pretending it's Inara, Inara's heart breaks finding out, Mal's heart cracks thinking she doesn't care at all, Inara's heart cracks seeing her beloved friend die, she's honest with Mal for once only to utterly break his heart the next sentence. Ow ow ow.


I love the constellation because it's... just all about love, for Inara, Mal and Nandi alike, but I cannot rewatch this episode without forcing myself simply because everything around it is so very very bad.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, March 7, 2007 9:05 PM

NONSTOP


Safe

The whole witch aspect threw me off a bit. I still enjoy it's place in the overall story though.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Itinerary for Serenity during the 9 months of Firefly/Serenity.
Thu, June 20, 2019 20:39 - 21 posts
Map of the Verse discussion
Tue, June 4, 2019 20:51 - 170 posts
The Savant Crew
Wed, May 15, 2019 13:47 - 32 posts
Who Was Your Favorite Friend of Our BDH?
Wed, April 24, 2019 00:26 - 3 posts
Everything Wrong with “The Train Job”
Wed, February 6, 2019 18:20 - 4 posts
Where is the location for the scene at the end of "Trash"
Mon, December 24, 2018 23:42 - 4 posts
Christmastime
Mon, December 24, 2018 13:48 - 1 posts
"Mal, bad... in the Latin" what does it mean?
Sun, August 5, 2018 23:02 - 31 posts
Who Was Your Favorite Character That Died In The Verse?
Thu, July 26, 2018 06:15 - 6 posts
Have Mal's Contacts Been Discussed?
Fri, July 20, 2018 09:13 - 5 posts
What's Your Favorite Scene or Dialogue Featuring Zoe Washburne?
Tue, July 17, 2018 13:49 - 8 posts
5mmo Offer King of Avalon Resources At Affordable Price
Sun, May 20, 2018 22:18 - 1 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL