GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Imponderables: Leader Of The Pack

POSTED BY: NVGHOSTRIDER
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 10:01
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 9444
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Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:08 PM

NVGHOSTRIDER


Okay ladies and gents, preferred method of child reading as seen in the animal world. Eagles and wolves mate for life, Lions opt for communal arrangement; so what would you ideal method be?

Previous thread:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=38753&m=713459#top

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The country is making a big mistake not teaching kids to cook and raise a garden and build fires.
-Loretta Lynn


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Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:22 PM

MSA


Well I think you need minimum 2 people to raise a child and it wouldn't hurt to have more help. Babies are hard hard work...

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:35 PM

LEOPARDFLAN


Ah darn, missed the firsties :[

I would say go communal, like with the lions. That way the rents don't have to suffer all the time for their kid, lolz

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Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:45 PM

ZEROKIRYU


Quote:

Originally posted by LeopardFlan:
Ah darn, missed the firsties :[

I would say go communal, like with the lions. That way the rents don't have to suffer all the time for their kid, lolz


Nah, particularly because other peoples kids can be bastards, I know this for a fact.

Oh no, the zombies killed god!

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Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:48 PM

LEOPARDFLAN


Well, that means that the lions 'on duty', so to speak, could teach all the kids good manners! Right?

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Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:22 PM

ZEROKIRYU


Quote:

Originally posted by LeopardFlan:
Well, that means that the lions 'on duty', so to speak, could teach all the kids good manners! Right?


No one can teach these kids good manners, trust me.

Oh no, the zombies killed god!

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Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:26 PM

LEOPARDFLAN


Ah.. but if you were able to get a chance at them while they were still young and impressionable, then you could make them behave, right?

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Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:38 PM

ZEROKIRYU


Quote:

Originally posted by LeopardFlan:
Ah.. but if you were able to get a chance at them while they were still young and impressionable, then you could make them behave, right?


One can't say that with certainty because, and I think msa will back me up on this, what works for one child might not work for another.

In this day and age it won't work, with there being so many different opinions on how to raise a child. What one person considers is okay for their child, another might not.

Oh no, the zombies killed god!

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Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:43 PM

MSA


Children behave when their parents teach them expected behavior
Example " when you are in the library you use this voice ( demonstrate voice tone) and we walk slowly and remember to put books back"
Praise and reward appropriate behavior, provide consistent consequences for inappropriate behavior and bingo... well behaved kids. It's actual work which is why you see so many bratty kids... it's the Malcolm in the Middle problem.
In Malcolm you see the mom notice other family's kids behave and she becomes irate and constantly yells at her kids for their failure to behave, but you never notice her rewarding good behavior, explaining what behavior she expects, or teaching them what she wants them to do. A lot of parents lack the understanding and skills which is why Nanny 911 is so popular yet so many parents don't get that the reason she can get the kids to behave isn't magic, it's simple explanation of the rules and expectations followed by consequences either good or bad for their behavior
It's not easy since you have to work on it all the time from when they are young... the word behave means jack.. what you mean by it is I want these kids to demonstrate these behaviors in these situations.
Kids replicate whatever behavior they see. If they are in a situation where parents swear all the time and are rude to others... kids will do the same and yelling at them won't fix that. You have to demonstrate what behavior you want and explicitly teach it and provide reinforcement of the behavior you desire and the kid will make mistakes. You have to be patient and continue to re-teach and reinforce desired behaviors without being unkind or yelling. It's the only way to get kids who " behave"
And yes what works for one kid won't work for another in terms of motivation or reinforcer. You have to individualize and play to strengths... if the kid is good at being social then reinforce socially... Also some kids are more skilled than others. You have to figure out what the kid can and can't do and help them get better at the expected behaviors.
So if all the people who have contact with the kid have the same system then it works.... it's great for parents to get some help but it ends up defeating the purpose if the other care givers have different standards or reinforce different behaviors
To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:01 PM

LEOPARDFLAN


Ah, I see. Both of you make perfect sense, and I'm not that unhappy about being proven wrong

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Wednesday, July 1, 2009 4:12 AM

MSA


Well raising kids who act appropriately and are responsible takes a lot of very hard work. A lot of people somehow think that if you have them and just sort of let them do whatever then yell when they screw up that the kids will do better... sadly not so much.
Plus I think a lot of people just didn't grow up with good parenting examples ( I blame the permissive 70's do whatever you want attitude) and once you don't have a good example it's harder for you to know what to do. So you just bumble along and are frustrated it doesn't work.

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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Wednesday, July 1, 2009 5:55 AM

BLACK12AKYTCA


You're right, again (as usual, lolz)..


Stan- Mobbex is playing lunch and Aky is making a guitar

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Wednesday, July 1, 2009 6:57 AM

RHYIANAN


Quote:

Originally posted by MsA:

So if all the people who have contact with the kid have the same system then it works.... it's great for parents to get some help but it ends up defeating the purpose if the other care givers have different standards or reinforce different behaviors



Working in a daycare when I was a teenager really reinforced this. We had one parent that was adamant that we could not tell her child "no". Instead, we were supposed to simply tell the little girl "stop". The daycare compromised by telling every child "no, stop it" so that everyone knew that the behavior displayed was inappropriate. The compromise was necessary for the children to learn by each other's example as well as from the adults. Other than that, we tried to individualize the best we could, but sometimes it was difficult considering the structure and function of the daycare. Sometimes a particular child wasn't a good fit with us, but did very well somewhere else.

We also had children that ran wild at home and therefore were not well behaved at all. Their parents were usually outraged that their children were put in time out more often than the other children, thinking that the kids were singled out for some reason. I found that the younger children were easier to deal with than the older ones, but they were also more confused by the different set of rules. If they had started with us from a young age, they learned to use one set of rules at home and another at the day care. Once they hit school age without that kind of training, it was usually hopeless to try and get them to behave unless the parents were exceptionally great.

I loved working with the kids, but I don't think that I'd be able to do it all the time. In the four years I spent at the day care, I met more parents that should never have had children than competent parents. At times it seemed like an uphill battle, since the parents didn't seem to care what their children did, or they taught them things that were completely off the wall. I'll never forget trying to explain to a child that she could have severely hurt another kid, only to hear the response "I don't have to care what happens to him because he's not related to me". That is what her parents taught her, that it doesn't matter if you paralyze or kill another person unless they are related. My summers nannying kids were better (can I use nanny as a verb?), since I was there all the time and was able to keep things consistent. The parents were wonderful and we all did everything we could not to contradict each other. I didn't have to fight against what their parents were doing, and it was all around a better experience.

*edit* This makes it sound like all parents I've dealt with are awful, which isn't true, just that the parents that would not parent were more plentiful. There were many great children that I loved, who had wonderful parents.


I'm a leaf on the wind

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Wednesday, July 1, 2009 8:38 AM

MSA


Rhyianan I understand completely. there are some really good parents out there, but when you do child care or teaching you run into so many people who just have no idea how to parent or whose ideas about acceptable are so far off. I actually had to explain to a friend of mine why it was unacceptable to let his 3 year old say the f word.. I know he just thought it was funny, but when the kid gets to school the kid is going to be in constant trouble and be given consequences when he has no idea why it's wrong... eventually I got him to understand how letting the kid do that would be viewed by others and how many problems it would cause his kid in school settings and once he realized it he was able to change it.

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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Wednesday, July 1, 2009 9:38 AM

ZEEK


I think the mate for life thing is just easier logistically. It is too difficult to find a group that is full of like minded people who are all focused on the same goals. It's hard enough to get two people on the same track. At least with two people it's easier to compromise.

Besides I don't think I'd be the alpha male of many groups. So, big no to that.

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Wednesday, July 1, 2009 12:59 PM

MSA


Aww I think you'd be the Alpha Zeek;)
But yes two people works well...also better to discuss with each other all the things you need to before hand.

Example we decided that Baby John can go on group dates when he's 14 and dates by himself when he's 15



To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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Thursday, July 2, 2009 4:07 AM

SOLARFLARE


Quote:

Originally posted by MsA:
I actually had to explain to a friend of mine why it was unacceptable to let his 3 year old say the f word..



Wow. I'm just in awe that you had to explain this. I shouldn't be surprised...

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Thursday, July 2, 2009 4:40 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by MsA:
dates by himself when he's 15


That's all well and good but I'm going to hope that he meets another person to go on the date with him.

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Thursday, July 2, 2009 5:42 AM

MSA


LOL one can hope, but since he'll have his daddy's good looks and charm I'm sure our big problem will be making sure there's only one other person on the date

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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Friday, July 3, 2009 7:02 AM

ZEEK


Everybody off today? Sleeping in is so nice.

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Friday, July 3, 2009 7:26 AM

MSA


DOn't taunt the pregnant lady... I miss sleeping sooooo much

HUGS Zeek I'm glad you got to sleep in :) So what are your plans for the 4th weekend??



To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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Friday, July 3, 2009 8:01 AM

ZEEK


BBQ and fireworks. Any time not consumed by those activities will be used to play online poker.

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Friday, July 3, 2009 9:37 AM

FREELANCERTEX


bbq at Harkness state park (beautiful beach, more of a park than a beach, complete with really old mansion (with gardens) and stone amphitheater where many weddings are held) with the dad's side of the fam on sunday, if only THE FRAKING RAIN WILL STOP


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Friday, July 3, 2009 9:45 AM

MSA


When you play online poker...do you win real money??

ooh picnic is good...sorry about the rain though..send it our way

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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Friday, July 3, 2009 10:36 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by MsA:
When you play online poker...do you win real money??


Yep I play the massive .10/.25 tables.

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Friday, July 3, 2009 1:02 PM

MSA


oooh well we know who will be financing our tropical island retreat:) HUGS

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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Friday, July 3, 2009 3:26 PM

MSA


NVG here:

Actually kind of a laid back day today. Tonight I have a few drinks, hunt terrorists via Rainbow Six Vegas 2, cook some stirfry for the womans and myself, and assemble the crib.

Damn. I better get crackin'.

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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Friday, July 3, 2009 6:26 PM

BLACK12AKYTCA


I CAN'T WAIT UNTIL TOMORROW!!!

We bought so many pretty fireworks....


Stan- Mobbex is playing lunch and Aky is making a guitar

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Saturday, July 4, 2009 6:29 AM

ZEEK


Happy 4th!

Remember your firework safety.

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Saturday, July 4, 2009 7:20 AM

FREELANCERTEX


what. a dumbass. ><;; not to mention it looks really painful, but that's his fault :P

happy fourth everyone ^_^


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Saturday, July 4, 2009 8:08 AM

ZEEK


I have no idea what he was doing or what he expected to happen, but I smile every time I see that explosion.

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Saturday, July 4, 2009 8:13 AM

BLACK12AKYTCA


Pretty...


Stan- Mobbex is playing lunch and Aky is making a guitar

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Saturday, July 4, 2009 12:07 PM

FREELANCERTEX


i mean, what was he *trying* to do?? i'm not even gonna ask what he was thinking cuz i know he wasnt XD

lolz, Black12 ur evil

but seriously that belongs on failblog.


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Saturday, July 4, 2009 12:11 PM

BLACK12AKYTCA


Well, yes, I am (generally, that's a side effect of being a pyromaniac XD). I don't think I even wanna know what he was thinking, though..

And you're right, tex, that definitely belongs on Failblog XD.

So you like calling me Black12 rather than RF now, do ya?


Stan- Mobbex is playing lunch and Aky is making a guitar

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Sunday, July 5, 2009 1:00 PM

FREELANCERTEX


@_@ didnt know it was u RF. will u stop changing ur frickin username?

whats the significance of this one?


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Sunday, July 5, 2009 4:11 PM

BLACK12AKYTCA


Will it stop being humid in KS? Same answer XD

See my log for that, it's a bit long and I don't feel like repeating myself :P


Stan- Mobbex is playing lunch and Aky is making a guitar

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Monday, July 6, 2009 4:44 AM

ZEEK


*head explodes*

There should be a mandate that idiotic emails cannot be sent on Monday mornings.

The moronic bean counters at my company are furious because they asked us to reduce cost of some product testing. So, we told them that the reason the testing costs so much is they're doing it right before the product is ready to be released where it's a huge pain to change anything. The problems we run into don't have to wait until the end to be tested so if they ran a smaller test early on for these problems then our later test could be shorter and most likely wouldn't end up in huge issues. All they hear is "pay for another test cycle". There are notes flying around with bolded sentences basically screaming that we are under no circumstances supposed to push to spend more money.

OK idiots, but you asked how to save money and we told you. Don't blame us that you can't look at the big picture.

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Monday, July 6, 2009 5:13 AM

MSA


Oh Zeek... HUGS I'm sorry they're stupid

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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Monday, July 6, 2009 12:11 PM

ZEEK


*head explodes again*

This has been a crazy day from the get go but now someone is playing an mp3 of a bagpipes version of "amazing grace" somewhere on my floor. No one needs bagpipe music in an office! If you like it get some headphones!! I don't really like yelling at adults but if this goes on much longer I'm going to have to hunt this jerk down.

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Monday, July 6, 2009 12:56 PM

MSA


Oh sweety that sucks big time

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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Monday, July 6, 2009 2:50 PM

AVERYFINECOMPANION


I dislike bag pipes, a lot.

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Monday, July 6, 2009 2:58 PM

ZEROKIRYU


Quote:

Originally posted by averyfinecompanion:
I dislike bag pipes, a lot.


They're alright, in small doses.

Oh no, the zombies killed god!

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Monday, July 6, 2009 3:10 PM

NAVYSEILS


Quote:

Originally posted by averyfinecompanion:
I dislike bag pipes, a lot.



People play them all the time out in the streets here. It's always the same tune. I'm thinking bagpipes can only play the one song.

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Monday, July 6, 2009 3:31 PM

MSA


or maybe all the songs sounds the same on the bagpipes....

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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Monday, July 6, 2009 4:10 PM

BLACK12AKYTCA


No, not really- I've heard lots of different songs from bag pipes (and I <3 bag pipes!)


Stan- Mobbex is playing lunch and Aky is making a guitar

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Monday, July 6, 2009 4:38 PM

NAVYSEILS


I actually dont mind them too much, which is just as well, cause they're loud and all over the town drowning out the sound of hobos with penny whistles and accordians. I'm still not convinced there's more than one song though. Ok maybe two... sometimes I hear them throw the flower of scotland in there too.

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Monday, July 6, 2009 4:56 PM

BLACK12AKYTCA


It's not the fault of the bag pipe, it's the fault of the players :P


Stan- Mobbex is playing lunch and Aky is making a guitar

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Tuesday, July 7, 2009 4:14 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by zerokiryu:
They're alright, in small doses.


I agree. Which is why people should not force them on others. Luckily the "music" stopped after a couple more minutes. I'm hoping for a head explosion free day. *crosses fingers*

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Tuesday, July 7, 2009 4:24 AM

MSA


NVG here:

I am actually a big fan of historically illicit articles, including bagpipes. Yet, I think they are more widely accepted in a musical ensemble.

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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Tuesday, July 7, 2009 7:30 AM

MSA


Hey all...MSA again.

NV has just assembled the crib YAY!! It's so darling:) Once the bedding gets here and we get everything put up I'll take pics for you all:)

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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