REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

What was wrong with the Islamonazism thread?

POSTED BY: SKYWALKEN
UPDATED: Sunday, December 19, 2004 14:20
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3116
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Saturday, December 11, 2004 8:28 AM

SKYWALKEN


http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=15&t=7539

I've been there and don't see why it was put in Troll Country. The only problem was that it was originally put in Other Science Fiction, but it could still simply be put in Real World Events.

There is nothing at all hatefull about that posting!

This ArielBerg person is not getting the proper respect he or she deserves.

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Saturday, December 11, 2004 9:04 AM

GHOULMAN


Good Goddess, you don't see where creating a bullshiet word like "Islamifascists" isn't derogatory, racist, and frankly, fascistic rubbish from an ignorant right wing mind?

Buy a frellin' clue.

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Saturday, December 11, 2004 9:28 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


The problem is that it wasn't titled "Neo-Con Nazism". Freedom of speech only goes so far any more. The author just chose the wrong people to villify.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, December 11, 2004 9:32 AM

SKYWALKEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
The problem is that it wasn't titled "Neo-Con Nazism". Freedom of speech only goes so far any more. The author just chose the wrong people to villify.



You're right. I forgot the double standards liberals play when it comes to Freedom of Speech.


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Saturday, December 11, 2004 9:54 AM

MOHRSTOUTBEARD


Yay! Generalizations are fun!

"You've just gotta go ahead and change the captain of your brainship, because he's drunk at the wheel."

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Saturday, December 11, 2004 11:39 AM

LIBERALSARESTUPID


Quote:

Originally posted by MohrStoutbeard:
Generalizations are fun!



Only when they're used towards pussies and faggots i.e. liberals and islamonazis!

There is nothing I hate more than a liberal.
- God

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Tuesday, December 14, 2004 4:57 PM

UNICORN


Liberalsarestupid: Wow. I'm honored to be in the presence of someone who speaks for a benevolent God. I'm truly awed by your hatred and authority. Please apologize to your God for my existence, okay?

To offer an unwelcome answer to the question as posted (after all, you guys hate liberal me without even knowing me, right?), I think what was wrong with the thread was two things:

First, the author of the original post offered NO source citations for any of that material and did not make it clear where provable fact stopped and the subjective material of opinion started.

Second, since the tone of the post seemed to try and pass itself off as strictly informational, it wasn't particularly responsible of the poster to leave out the other half of the information about Nazism and Islam, namely that not all or even most believers of Islam are fascists and Nazis, just as not all or even most Nazis and fascists are practitioners of Islam.

I have no 'liberal double standard' as I am aware of. I like everything in my brain to gel and not conflict; if there's information in there that's self-contradictory, then I reexamine, because it's my responsibility to do so.

All of that said, I'm not entirely sure I would have put the thread into the troll space. I would have posted my disagreement with its message and the reasons for that disagreement, as I have here.

Incidentally, there are any number of wonderful books on Islam, its beliefs and the people who hold them. There are actually some very progressive ideas in the Koran. And I think it's important, especially at this time of year, to remember that just as Islam was born out of the Bible, so was Christianity; after all, dears, Judaism was the parent faith to both. As siblings, then, those faiths will really have to learn how to get along.



There is no such thing as a weed.

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Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:12 AM

CONNORFLYNN


Quote:

Originally posted by Unicorn:

To offer an unwelcome answer to the question as posted (after all, you guys hate liberal me without even knowing me, right?), I think what was wrong with the thread was two things:

First, the author of the original post offered NO source citations for any of that material and did not make it clear where provable fact stopped and the subjective material of opinion started.

There is no such thing as a weed.



Actually, the individual posted several links, which if looked at are references..some factual some opinion based. It is similar to the concept of Judeofascism or Zionazism or Zionist entity. There are elements of truth for all. I don't think he was stating that ALL Muslims are Islamofascists. I think it is important to realize that the MAJOR players in the current militant movements of Islam do indeed hold several of the fascist beliefs that were explained.

I however believe that no movement forms without a reason. If we continue to stereotype all Muslims as Islamonazis or Fascists, we will do naught but lend fuel to the flame of hate that is building. The only way we can broker peace is to educate those that have not become brainwashed by hate and reach out to them. The world's youth are not so gullible as to throw caution to the wind and not listen to the voices of reason..eventually. The piece was informative, but completely useless. You can't befriend someone and meet eye to eye, if you ostrecize the same said person you are attempting to communicate with in terms of diplomacy.

In other words..you can't throw sand in someones eyes and then expect them to respect your opinions and listen to them.

An interesting article on Islamaphobia:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,719159,00.html

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Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:17 AM

DANFAN


Well said, Connorflynn

THIS is precisely the discussion/debate that SHOULD have occurred in the original thread... but was stopped in its tracks by moving the thread to the "forum of death."

As I believe Geezer pointed out a few posts ago... apparently there are some some groups of people about whom negative opinions can be examined and debated in this forum. And some groups of people that are exempt from such debate.

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Thursday, December 16, 2004 6:44 AM

UNICORN


I saw that the poster included links. That effectively places all responsibility for the posted information elsewhere, which I find to be dishonorable and cowardly, given the officious tone of the post.

My idea of citing sources (antiquated though it may be) is to credit specific information to the sources from which that information was taken. My point was that the line between fact and opinion was deliberately obscured by the poster, which I feel is irresponsible and even dishonest.

I still don't know that I would have removed the post from current events; I tend to have a high tolerance for material posted in public or semi-public fora, so long as dissenters may equally voice an opinion.



There is no such thing as a weed.

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Thursday, December 16, 2004 6:51 AM

UNICORN


Sorry for the double;
Connorflynn, you mentioned that there are indeed fascist beliefs held by certain Muslims. I would counter that by saying that there are indeed a few fascist elements in our own goverment as well at the present time. And that home-grown fascism has a much greater impact on me and mine than does that of those aforementioned Muslims.

There is no such thing as a weed.

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Thursday, December 16, 2004 7:10 AM

CONNORFLYNN


Quote:

Originally posted by Unicorn:
Sorry for the double;
Connorflynn, you mentioned that there are indeed fascist beliefs held by certain Muslims. I would counter that by saying that there are indeed a few fascist elements in our own goverment as well at the present time. And that home-grown fascism has a much greater impact on me and mine than does that of those aforementioned Muslims.

There is no such thing as a weed.



Well..to a degree I disagree with you, but you're entitled to your opinion. I'm not sure that calling the current US administration fascist is a counter to the fact that there are Islamic Fascist Movements. On the contrary, I think it reflects the constant circumnavigation of facts. We were discussing the plausibility of the post above regarding Islamic fascism Movements.

There's an element of fascism in every form of government. It's not inherent to the current administration. The militant Islamic movement didn't begin during Bush's reign. I believe Carter had a bunch of fun with it..and well we can mention the assassination of the Israeli Olympians and so on and so on. It has been brewing for decades. Most fascists aren't as BOLD about it as some of the Islamic media lovelies that have been publicly present since the 70's.

I'm still not sure where you're coming from in terms of the informational post above. I don't think the individual was necessarily writing a thesis paper, that required a full on reference list. I'm sorry you feel that the individual shouldn't be writing a post, because you feel he isn't qualified to.

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Friday, December 17, 2004 10:31 PM

SOUPCATCHER


I have no problem with the thread being put in Troll Country for the following two reasons:

The person who started the thread, ArielBerg, made no effort whatsoever to participate in the Fireflyfans community. This was their first and only post and it was posted less than three hours after they created an account. Immediately after they made the post they logged off Fireflyfans and have not returned since. Clearly they were not interested in starting a dialogue. The only inference I draw from this information is that they wanted to spam this website.

Secondly, as Shiny pointed out in the last post of the original thread, the entire posting was pasted from a Wikipedia entry:
Quote:

from http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=15&t=7539#97610
For those interested, here's the discussion for why this was removed from the Wikipedia (from which the original post was copied verbatim):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Islamonazism

And here's what Wiki now says about this topic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pejorative_political_slogans#Isla
mofascism.2C_Islamonazism


Jayne, your mouth is talkin. Might want to look into that.



The simple fact that this is unoriginal work copied from another site by a user who made no effort to be part of this community marks this as trolling, at least IMHO. So for those reasons I have no problem with the relocation of that thread.

This is absolutely unrelated to my opinions on the content of the original post. For me personally I have problems with a title that equates two large groups, Muslims and Nazis, and then only presents evidence of a relationship between a much smaller subset of one group. I would feel the same way about an article entitled Amerinazis based on the pro-Nazi rallies in Madison Square Garden and elsewhere in the United States that happened pre-WWII by groups such as the German-American Bund. Hell, you could even throw in the Pledge of Allegience as evidence of Amerinazism since the original salute was done stiff-armed-Nazi style. Fortunately, this went out of style for obvious reasons.



There are three kinds of people: fighters, lovers, and screamers.

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Saturday, December 18, 2004 10:18 PM

DAIKATH


As a christian and after the remarks with words like pussies, faggots and stuff I really feel the need to post this Bible qoute on here.

Quote:

8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=4&version=49

Please don't judge us according to poeple like them.

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Sunday, December 19, 2004 11:51 AM

INEVITABLEBETRAYAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Daikath:
Please don't judge us according to poeple like them.



I second that. I'm a Christian, too, and I'm just appalled at the pure hatred displayed by "Liberalsarestupid". We are not all the sort of malevalent bigots that he seems to be.

Just to add some additional words of wisdom, when asked what the two most important commands were, "Jesus replied: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself."

Oh, and one more thing. Liberalsarestupid: until you can come up with a chapter-and-verse citation for the assertion that God hates liberals, I suggest you not speak for Him. He's doin' just fine without you.

_______________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Sunday, December 19, 2004 2:20 PM

ROCKETJOCK


Quote:

Originally posted by InevitableBetrayal:
Quote:

Originally posted by Daikath:
Please don't judge us according to poeple like them.



I second that. I'm a Christian, too, and I'm just appalled at the pure hatred displayed by "Liberalsarestupid". We are not all the sort of malevalent bigots that he seems to be.

Just to add some additional words of wisdom, when asked what the two most important commands were, "Jesus replied: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself."

Oh, and one more thing. Liberalsarestupid: until you can come up with a chapter-and-verse citation for the assertion that God hates liberals, I suggest you not speak for Him. He's doin' just fine without you.



Bravo. I'm not a Christian, but, after studying the Bible, especially the parts in the red letters, I realized most people who profess to be Christians aren't either. Which makes it harder on the real Christians to do the job their messiah required -- you know, stuff like judgeing yourself before you judge others, and forgiving others their trespasses. And crazy liberal ideas like questioning authority figures.

Anyone who thinks Jesus of Nazareth was a voice of conservatism never read the book.

"Hermanos! The Devil has built a robot! Andale!" -- Numero Cinco

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