REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A thread for JSF

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 23:58
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Monday, October 11, 2021 9:15 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

JSF: Having first pregnancy just for the purpose of interrupting it via abortion is what actually INCREASES the risk.
What is so magical about a "first" pregnancy ending in abortion, as opposed to a second, or third? Isn't it just the total number of years being pregnant and breastfeeding the important factor? I see no biological mechanism for that "first pregnancy" trope. And since 30% of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortions, have "they" also studied the effect of THAT? That's beyond a woman's control and is certainly a very common experience.

IIRC, most cancers are generally considered to be some natural process, but run amok, or in the wrong place/tissue, or unreigned reaction or hormonal situations.
First pregnancy is the first full cycle of powerful hormone storms, in specific stages, over a specific time frame. When this cycle is interrupted in a way evolution did not anticipate, the hormone sequence, which is supposed to stop or counter whatever the prior hormone release did, is disrupted. Uncontrolled hormone release sequence results.
I do not recall that the full term but stillborn was specifically identified as increasing risk, but subsequent studies would indicate that the lack of breastfeeding would increase risk.

The studies I recall had indicated that miscarriage was equally increasing risk as induced abortions, but now I read that other studies have indicated miscarriages are not as high risk - perhaps evolution has found a way to work around that.
Remember, this was all supposed to be about the first pregancy, as I recall - much of what I am reading now does not differentiate between first and any other following pregnancy. I have not heard specifically of any study which stated that non-first pregnancies had any effect on risk, whether they were completed births, or stillbirths, or miscarriages, or induced abortions.


Quote:

Link a credible study, or be done.

You have spent the past 30 years erasing, scrubbing, obfuscating that facts, remember? Hard to find the stuff you scrubbed.

But let's try one of your beloved .gov sites:

https://www.cancer.gov/types/breast/abortion-miscarriage-risk

Excerpts:
The relationship between induced and spontaneous abortion and breast cancer risk has been the subject of extensive research beginning in the late 1950s. Until the mid-1990s, the evidence was inconsistent. Findings from some (politically correct) studies suggested there was no increase in risk of breast cancer among women who had had an abortion, while findings from other studies suggested there was an increased risk. Most of these studies, however, were flawed in a number of ways that can lead to unreliable results.

Early age at first term birth is related to lifetime decrease in breast cancer risk.

The additional long-term protective effect of young age at subsequent term pregnancies is not as strong as for the first term pregnancy.

One of the particiapants was not adequately PC, and was more interested in solving brest cancer than in perpetuating breast cancer like the rest of the participants and other deniers:
The participant remains "convinced that the weight of available evidence suggests a real, independent, positive association between induced abortion and breast cancer risk." In a general statement, the participant noted that the workshop summary report contained no comment of dissent.





Persistence in other searches:
https://abortionrisks.org/index.php?title=Cancer_Risk_Associated_With_
Abortion


"Between 45-50% of U.S. women undergo induced abortion of their first pregnancy each year. It is well established that an early full-term childbirth has a protective effect against breast cancer in women."

"The researchers also stated that " data suggested an increased risk associated with abortion contrary to the reduction in risk associated with full-term births.""

"Data gathered from an international-case control study of breast cancer and age at birth found that there was a 3.5% increase of risk for every one year increase of age at first birth. "

"In a case-control study involving eight population-based cancer registries in the United States, it was found that the age at first full-term pregnancy exerted a strong influence on the risk of breast cancer."

" those with a history of abortion exhibited a 29% increased risk if the incomplete pregnancy occurred before first birth"

"In a reversal of the NCI panel opinion that abortion was not linked breast cancer, this new study (including leading researchers who previously questioned the link) identifies abortion as a consistent risk factor, associated with a 40% increased risk"

" an induced abortion before a first full-term pregnancy was 2.06 times more likely to result in breast cancer compared with controls"

"In a series of 63 pregnant patients at the Mayo Clinic, a 5-year survival of 43% was reported in the interrupted pregnancy group compared to 59% in the full-term pregnancy group. "

"A meta-analysis of 28 published reports which included specific data on induced abortion and breast cancer incidence concluded that there was an independent risk of 30-50% for breast cancer as a result of induced abortion."

"Among women who had been pregnant at least once, the overall risk of breast cancer among women who had experienced an induced abortion was 50% higher which was statistically significant. "

"It is well known that a second major round of breast tissue growth occurs during the first trimester of a woman's first pregnancy; that full development of this tissue into secretory cells requires a full-term pregnancy, that pregnancy promotes the vascularization of breast tissue, and that a woman's breast is qualitatively transformed by her first full-term pregnancy, resulting in a much higher ratio of differentiated to undifferentiated cells--If a woman's first pregnancy resulted in a first trimester abortion, the dramatic rise in undifferentiated cells that takes place during the first trimester would not be followed by the marked differentiation occurring during the second and third trimesters. The consequent sharp rise in the number of vulnerable cells would thus elevate the breast cancer risk."

"In a study of genetic markers in premenopausal breast tumors, it was found that tumors from patients with any abortions before a first full-term pregnancy were 26 times more likely to show amplification for the INT2 gene which was an indication of faster tumor growth and lower survival."

"n a Canadian study of 154 pregnant women with breast cancer, 20% of the 116 patients who carried their children to term were ultimately cured of their cancer, 40% of the 13 patients who spontaneously aborted were cured, but none of the 21 patients who had a "therapeutic" abortion survived. It was concluded that a "therapeutic" abortion did not confer any benefit and may reduce survival."

" the multiple logistic estimates of the odds ratio for breast cancer among women under 40 years of age, between 41-49 years and over 50 years was 1.5, 2.8, and 4.7 respectively among women with a history of induced abortions compared to women with no history of induced abortions."

"Those with a history of induced abortion as determined by fetal death records had a 1.9 odds ratio compared with controls."

"a first- trimester abortion before a first full-term pregnancy was associated with a 2.4-fold increase in risk of breast cancer."

" A new study done on women in Turkey who had abortions had a 66 percent increased risk of contracting breast cancer. Women having a spontaneuous abortion, or miscarriage were not at an elevated risk."



https://rtl.org/educational-materials/abortion-breast-cancer-link/

"One study which appeared in the International Journal of Epidemiology in 1989 and relied on New York state medical records reported that abortion increased a woman’s risk of getting breast cancer by 90%."

"In 1996, Dr. Joel Brind combined the statistics from 23 different worldwide studies and found a 30% increase of breast cancer risk among women who chose abortion after already giving birth and a 50% increase of breast cancer risk among women who chose abortion before giving birth."

"A study done on African-American women by researchers at Howard University showed that African-American women over 50 were almost 5 times more likely to get breast cancer if they had abortions compared with women who had never received an abortion."

"It is also universally recognized by experts that having a first full-term birth at an early age lowers a woman’s risk of getting breast cancer. Another study published in the Lancet found that breast feeding is another way women can lower their risk of breast cancer. (5) Women who abort their first pregnancy don’t get the protective effects of a first full-term pregnancy and don’t receive the protective effects of breast feeding."



https://www.cmf.org.uk/resources/publications/content/?context=article
&id=1088


"The majority of studies published since 1957 do in fact show a clear association; but there is also clear evidence of attempts to cover this up through ignoring, concealing or misclassifying incriminating data. "

"The earliest study linking induced abortion with later development of breast cancer was published in Japan in 1957.[4] Women who had had abortions carried a 2.6 relative or 160% increased risk compared with women who had not had abortions."

"Data is deliberately concealed: An Australian study looked at risk factors, including abortion, for breast cancer but failed to report on the abortion factor.[11] The data only came to light in another small 1995 metaanalysis by a French group; they looked at the Australian figures and calculated a 160% increased risk of breast cancer after abortion.[12] In fact abortion was the strongest risk factor but the original researchers had concealed their findings."



I need to list others next time.

OK. Others:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7932822/

"Among women who had been pregnant at least once, the risk of breast cancer in those who had experienced an induced abortion was 50% higher than among other women"


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8712194/

"Among women who had been pregnant at least once, the risk of breast cancer in those with a prior induced abortion was 20% higher than that in women with no history of abortion "


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8405211/

https://www.bcpinstitute.org/

https://www.abortionbreastcancer.com/

"In a California lawsuit filed in 2001 against Planned Parenthood Federation of American for falsely advertising the alleged safety of abortion, Angela Lanfranchi, M.D., a New Jersey breast surgeon, declared under oath that she has had private conversations with leading cancer specialists from Harvard, the Miami Breast Cancer Conference and the American Society of Breast Surgeons. They told Dr. Lanfranchi that they are aware that abortion causes breast cancer, but they would not say so publicly because it is 'too political.' [22] See her statement here."


http://www.abortioncancer.com/

https://www.bcpinstitute.org/uploads/1/1/5/1/115111905/complications-c
hapter7.pdf




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Tuesday, October 12, 2021 9:50 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Oh... you filled it in.

I thought a thread with the title "A thread for JSF" and a blank post was a joke that I just wasn't getting or something.

Out of the garden where it doesn't belong is a good thing. Maybe the title should be changed after the point is made though.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Wednesday, October 13, 2021 9:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Gorram thing logged me out halfway through

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Wednesday, October 13, 2021 10:28 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:

JSF: Having first pregnancy just for the purpose of interrupting it via abortion is what actually INCREASES the risk.

SIGNYM: What is so magical about a "first" pregnancy ending in abortion, as opposed to a second, or third? Isn't it just the total number of years being pregnant and breastfeeding the important factor? I see no biological mechanism for that "first pregnancy" trope. And since 30% of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortions, have "they" also studied the effect of THAT? That's beyond a woman's control and is certainly a very common experience.

JSF: INIIRC, most cancers are generally considered to be some natural process, but run amok, or in the wrong place/tissue, or unreigned reaction or hormonal situations.
First pregnancy is the first full cycle of powerful hormone storms, in specific stages, over a specific time frame. When this cycle is interrupted in a way evolution did not anticipate,

This is the first problem. Evolution doesn't "anticipate", it is ADAPTIVE. The environment changes and the organisms adapt (or not!) to the new environment. If evolution was able to " anticipate" there wouldn't be so many extinct species. It may seem a small point, but... Humans no longer live under the same conditions that the did eons ago.
And how far back do you want to set the evolutionary pointer, anyway?

Quote:

JSF: ...the hormone sequence, which is supposed to stop or counter whatever the prior hormone release did, is disrupted. Uncontrolled hormone release sequence results.
I do not recall that the full term but stillborn was specifically identified as increasing risk, but subsequent studies would indicate that the lack of breastfeeding would increase risk.

Sounds a little hazy on the specifics.

Quote:

The studies I recall had indicated that miscarriage was equally increasing risk as induced abortions, but now I read that other studies have indicated miscarriages are not as high risk - perhaps evolution has found a way to work around that.
Maybe, maybe not.

Quote:

Remember, this was all supposed to be about the first pregancy, as I recall - much of what I am reading now does not differentiate between first and any other following pregnancy. I have not heard specifically of any study which stated that non-first pregnancies had any effect on risk, whether they were completed births, or stillbirths, or miscarriages, or induced abortions.
So we're relying on your memory of something you read decades ago.


Quote:

SIGNYM: Link a credible study, or be done.
And this is where you whip your dick out to prove your conservative bona fides and you start spoiling for a fight...

Quote:

JSF: You have spent the past 30 years erasing, scrubbing, obfuscating that facts, remember? Hard to find the stuff you scrubbed.


MOI? Who the fuck do YOU think you're posting to? *I* have done no such thing.

Quote:

JSF: But let's try one of your beloved .gov sites:

https://www.cancer.gov/types/breast/abortion-miscarriage-risk

Excerpts:
The relationship between induced and spontaneous abortion and breast cancer risk has been the subject of extensive research beginning in the late 1950s. Until the mid-1990s, the evidence was inconsistent. Findings from some (politically correct) studies suggested there was no increase in risk of breast cancer among women who had had an abortion, while findings from other studies suggested there was an increased risk. Most of these studies, however, were flawed in a number of ways that can lead to unreliable results.

Early age at first term birth is related to lifetime decrease in breast cancer risk.

. OK, so let me pick nits.

This doesn't say what you think it does. All it says is that early age of COMPLETION of pregnancy is associated with risk reduction. It doesn't require that the first TERM pregnancy be the very first. Maybe the woman had a spontaneous -or induced - abortion at 19 and a term pregnancy at 20. It would still be an early first TERM pregnancy.

So I'm going to skip most of the rest of that while you think about bit.

Also, I'm curious: how young is "young"? 14? 16? 20?


Quote:

JSF: One of the particiapants was not adequately PC, and was more interested in solving brest cancer than in perpetuating breast cancer like the rest of the participants and other deniers:
The participant remains "convinced that the weight of available evidence suggests a real, independent, positive association between induced abortion and breast cancer risk." In a general statement, the participant noted that the workshop summary report contained no comment of dissent.

it would have been helpful if you had separated your comments from the study.


Quote:

Persistence in other searches:
https://abortionrisks.org/index.php?title=Cancer_Risk_Associated_With_
Abortion


"Between 45-50% of U.S. women undergo induced abortion of their first pregnancy each year. It is well established that an early full-term childbirth has a protective effect against breast cancer in women."

If you had quoted this honestly, you would have included

Quote:

It was estimated that women having their first child under age 18 have only about one-third the breast cancer risk of those whose first birth is delayed until age 35 or more

Again this is age at first TERM BIRTH, not age at first pregnancy.


Quote:

"Data gathered from an international-case control study of breast cancer and age at birth found that there was a 3.5% increase of risk for every one year increase of age at first birth. "
Nothing in there about abortions.

Quote:

"In a case-control study involving eight population-based cancer registries in the United States, it was found that the age at first full-term pregnancy exerted a strong influence on the risk of breast cancer."
Nothing in there about abortions either.

Quote:

" those with a history of abortion exhibited a 29% increased risk if the incomplete pregnancy occurred before first birth"
The full quote is

Abortion and breast cancer risk in seven countries," K.B. Michels et. al.. Cancer Causes and Control 6: 75-82,1995

Quote:

A study by researchers at the Harvard School of Public Health found that among parous women, those with a history of abortion exhibited a 29% increased risk if the incomplete pregnancy occurred before first birth (1.16-1.36, 95% CI) Spontaneous and induced abortions were grouped together.



I'm going to skip ahead.

Quote:

"It is well known that a second major round of breast tissue growth occurs during the first trimester of a woman's first pregnancy; that full development of this tissue into secretory cells requires a full-term pregnancy, that pregnancy promotes the vascularization of breast tissue, and that a woman's breast is qualitatively transformed by her first full-term pregnancy, resulting in a much higher ratio of differentiated to undifferentiated cells--If a woman's first pregnancy resulted in a first trimester abortion, the dramatic rise in undifferentiated cells that takes place during the first trimester would not be followed by the marked differentiation occurring during the second and third trimesters. The consequent sharp rise in the number of vulnerable cells would thus elevate the breast cancer risk."

"In a study of genetic markers in premenopausal breast tumors, it was found that tumors from patients with any abortions before a first full-term pregnancy were 26 times more likely to show amplification for the INT2 gene which was an indication of faster tumor growth and lower survival."

"n a Canadian study of 154 pregnant women with breast cancer, 20% of the 116 patients who carried their children to term were ultimately cured of their cancer, 40% of the 13 patients who spontaneously aborted were cured, but none of the 21 patients who had a "therapeutic" abortion survived. It was concluded that a "therapeutic" abortion did not confer any benefit and may reduce survival."

No mention whether this was a first pregnancy or not.

But this is a slippery correlation: Did the pregnant women abort or spontaneously abort bc their chemo was so rugged that it would kill or deform the fetus? Is this A causing B, or B causing A?

Blah blah blah... data is conflated, but there is at least a proposed mechanism to investigate, which is the growth of undifferentiated breast tissue. Seems like that should be the place to start.

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Wednesday, October 13, 2021 11:38 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Here is an answer, altho perhaps not THE answer, and certainly one that won't satisfy JSF
Quote:

By far the strongest study to date on the association between breast cancer and abortion was a population-based cohort study made up of 1.5 million Danish women born April 1, 1935, through March 31, 1978. [27] Of these women, 280,965 (18.4%) had had one or more induced abortions. After adjusting for potential confounders of age, parity, age at delivery of first child, and calendar period, the risk of breast cancer for women with a history of induced abortion was not different from women who had not had an induced abortion (relative risk [RR] = 1.0; 95% CI, 0.94-1.06). The number of induced abortions in a woman’s history also had no significant relation to risk of breast cancer.

A statistically significant increase in risk was found among the very small number of women with a history of second-trimester abortion. Results from this population-based prospective cohort provide strong evidence against an increase in risk of breast cancer among women with a history of induced abortion during the first trimester. Comparable results have been observed in a large cohort of women in China [28] and the California Teachers Study. [29] Taken as a whole and accounting for the limitations of the case-control study design, the available evidence does not support any important relation between induced abortion and risk of breast cancer.

However, a 2018 meta-analysis of 25 studies in the English language literature up to December 10, 2016, indicates there is no association between induced abortion and breast cancer risk. [25] A subgroup analysis suggested that induced abortion may raise the risk of breast cancer in parous women but not in nulliparous women. [25]



https://www.medscape.com/answers/1697353-195942/how-does-abortion-affe
ct-a-women39s-risk-for-breast-cancer


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Wednesday, October 13, 2021 11:52 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The protective effect of pregnancy.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15987443/

(No mention of abortion)

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Wednesday, October 13, 2021 11:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


This was interesting.
The focus seems to be on stem cells.

Quote:



cancer is a first magnitude problem of public health worldwide. There is increasing evidence that this cancer is originated in and maintained by a small population of undifferentiated cells with self-renewal properties. This small population generates a more differentiated pool of cells which represents the main mass of the tumor, resembling the hierarchical tissue organization of the normal breast. These cancer stem cells seem to share a similar phenotype with their normal counterparts but they display dysfunctional patterns of proliferation and differentiation, and they no longer respond to normal physiological controls that ensure a balanced cellular turnover. The origin of these cancer stem cells is controversial; it is not well known if they are originated from normal stem cells or from more differentiated progenitors where a de novo stem cell program is activated by the oncogenic insult. Here we review the origin of breast cancer stem cells and their role in the pathogenesis of cancer development, together with their implications in breast cancer progression, treatment and prognosis.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18220924/

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