REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Corona Plague was Sweden’s controversial ‘herd immunity’ strategy correct all along? Controversial COVID-19 No Lockdown strategy ‘vindicated’

POSTED BY: JAYNEZTOWN
UPDATED: Sunday, November 22, 2020 11:47
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Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:12 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Covid 19 coronavirus: Sweden's controversial virus strategy 'vindicated', say experts
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=
12364331

Coronavirus: Sweden bucks pandemic trend, still refuses to recommend face masks
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3099672/coronavirus-swe
den-bucks-global-trend-refusing-recommend-face


A herd immunity coronavirus strategy can be 'dangerous,' experts say
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/a-herd-immunity-coronavirus-s
trategy-can-be-dangerous-experts-say/ar-BB18ztE8?li=BBnba9O


Editorial: Coronavirus 'herd immunity' is just another way to say 'let people die'
https://news.yahoo.com/editorial-coronavirus-herd-immunity-just-100023
261.html


Denmark and Sweden responded differently to the pandemic. How did they fare?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/denmark-and-sweden-responded-differe
ntly-to-the-pandemic-how-did-they-fare


Sweden’s disaster in disguise
It is wrong to blame Sweden’s Covid-19 death toll entirely on its lighter lockdown and attempt at herd immunity.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/swedens-disaster-in-disguise

Trump adviser reportedly wants to let COVID-19 spread, repeat Sweden’s mistakes
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/08/trump-advisor-reportedly-pushi
ng-herd-immunity-idea-lambasted-by-experts
/


Johan Giesecke, Sweden’s “Herd Immunity” Strategist gets WHO promotion
https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2020/09/11/johan-giesecke-swedens-herd-
immunity-strategist-gets-who-promotion
/
Sweden's 'Herd Immunity' Mastermind Gets Promoted by WHO


https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/sweden-embraced-herd-immunity
-while-the-uk-abandoned-the-idea-so-why-do-they-both-have-high-covid-19-fatality-rates/ar-BB18ocS2

?
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/pariah-state-no-longer-architec
t-swedens-covid-19-strategy-shows-lockdowns-werent


https://news.yahoo.com/why-a-herd-immunity-approach-to-covid-19-could-
be-a-deadly-disaster-153057073.html

,

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/coronavirus-sweden-controversial-
covid19-strategy-vindicated/news-story/bc4dcf3f8327c4a86734a4659e394ec5

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Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:35 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Their "strategy" would be considered "correct" only if you accept at least twice the number of deaths as similar nations (Norway, Finland) that followed different strategies.

There was a cost in human lives, which shouldn't be overlooked.

The reason to slow down the viral spread wasn't to eradicate the virus, but to give the medical community a chance to catch up and develop effective treatments. (Development of a vaccine was never the endpoint, as it would take far too long, and economies couldn't endure lockdowns for that length of time.)

Now that many clinical trials have been conducted worldwide, nations can let up on lockdowns without an explosion of deaths.

As I have posted to SIX many times, it's always been a question of how much cost to save how many lives. Sweden simply decided not to expend much effort to save lives, sacrificing their old people in the process. And Swedes, in general, were OK with that.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, September 12, 2020 4:33 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Whatever.

The economy is trashed. Hope it was worth the old and dying people.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, September 12, 2020 4:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Whatever.

The economy is trashed. Hope it was worth the old and dying people.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIX, the economy was trashed over a decade ago. Once manufacturing and production went overseas, everyone was left with meaningless schiess jobs. Making beautiful cups of capuccino or running people around in your car ... or taking out a loan to get a meaningless college degree... doesn't count as an economy.

The virus just made ALL of our fundamental weaknesses - economic, healthcare, financial, social, governmental - tragically obvious.

And it was going to be a shit sandwich no matter what. Even nations far better-positioned than we were to handle the pandemic had problems, either with excess deaths or economic downturn, or both.

Deal with it and stop whining like a spoiled child.

How do we fix what's broken? Where do we go from here?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, September 12, 2020 5:15 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hey Signy

For what it's worth, this is what I think's going on with Sweden.

If you look at Sweden and Washington State, they have something in common - their outbreaks, by random luck, started in nursing homes. If your general population isn't well-connected to your nursing homes, it's possible to defeat the virus by simply isolating that part of society even further and, basically, walling them off to meet their own fate. (And wall-off they did! Nursing home patients weren't given supplemental oxygen, or prone positioning, or sent to the hospital. Instead, they were given morphine and left to die from days-long increasing suffocation. As a result of the outbreak starting in nursing homes and being relatively confined to them, according to the most recent figures I could find from Sweden - May 2020 - nursing homes were responsible for 50% of COVID-19 deaths.) And, of course, as I have pointed out a number of times already, Sweden is a country structurally socially-distanced - a third work from home, half work from home in the cities, and most of Sweden's households are single-occupant younger generation ones (ie no multi-generational families in one home). In addition, Sweden has overall a far healthier population, with an obesity rate of only 21% as compared to the US rate of 36%, for example. Even more, Sweden isn't close to the levels needed for herd immunity.

That's as compared to say NYC where the virus emerged full-blown into the general population. You can get a feel for general population spread v nursing home spread by the fact that in the US 40% of deaths occurred in nursing homes as compared to Sweden's 50%. In the US, that's a difference of 20,000 deaths at this point, which is far beyond any random fluctuations and points to basic structural differences between the two countries. That, and the US as a whole has a far more unhealthy and vulnerable general population due to obesity, hypertension, etc, leading to an increased death rate in the general population overall.




ETA:

To discuss this further, graphs showing RATES - of new infections, of new deaths etc - are simply that: RATES.

Looking at rates alone can be very misleading. For example, if a country has 1 COVID-19 infection and gets another COVID-19 infection, the rate of new infections has gone up 100% !!! But the overall numbers are still low, and manageable.

OTOH if there are a million COVID-19 infections, and 20,000 more people get infected overnight, the rate of new infections is only 2% but (obviously) the situation is completely out of control.

So one needs to look at *new* infection and death rates in the context of total numbers and percent of population, to see what they do and don't mean.

Then there's the concept of R0. R0 is the natural, unmitigated increase of a contagion, that I'll call natural R0. And natural R0 relates to controlling the virus because herd immunity is calculated from it.

But I can see where what looks like the natural R0 might be different in different countries and in different groups in those countries. And that's not because the virus is different, or the people are different genetically or demoraphically, but because the patterns of people interacting are different. I'd expect that a society where people are traditionally isolated across the population would have a lower population R0, whereas the spread between people in contact with each other (families, tribes) would be much higher, all within the same population.

But apparent R0 is also tracked as a measure of success in controlling the spread. For example, if, through diligent efforts, the reported apparent R0 drops in a population, it's not (generally) because the virus changed. It's because people are changing the spread of the virus by changing their behavior. *The only thing holding the virus in check is the new behaviors.* Even at a lowered apparent R0, the virus still remains in the population, ready to bounce back should behaviors change to allow it.

So as has been repeated many times in many articles, the only way to *ultimately* control the virus is through herd immunity, either through infection, or vaccination. Well, there's also the option of eradication, like with smallpox.




How does all this relate to Sweden?

The natural R0 of SARS-CoV-2 is much higher than Sweden's apparent R0, and that has to do with Sweden's naturally socially isolated society. So the rates in Sweden are a misleading indicator for many reasons, which have to do with Sweden's luck in having the epidemic start in socially isolated nursing homes rather than exploding in the general population; as well as the natural existing social isolation of Sweden's society; and its demographics of having a younger, healthier population.

And that the RATES of new infections and new deaths is dropping doesn't address Sweden's to-date total or future total number of infected or dead. SARS-CoV-2 has already taken per capita many more lives in Sweden than its nearest Nordic neighbors. And it will ultimately persist in Sweden, as it will everywhere, until herd immunity or eradication is reached. Eventually COVID-19 will take its toll.

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Saturday, September 12, 2020 6:15 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, see, what Sweden did with it's old people is exactly what SIX has been advocating all along: euthanasia. (Eu = good, thanas = death. Good death. Or maybe just death, without the good part of relief of suffering.)

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, September 12, 2020 7:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


But, what goes around, comes around. And that's especially true for SARS-CoV-2. It's not going to happen to just 'them'. It'll come to you, too.

And that's what makes the new data about persistent, even permanent, heart and lung damage, even in young people, even in mild cases, so concerning. This could be the medical depth charge waiting to go off.

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Saturday, September 12, 2020 8:03 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Oh. The horror. *yawn*

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, September 24, 2020 2:37 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Boris Johnson took advice from Sweden's no-lockdown scientist before rejecting tougher coronavirus restrictions
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/boris-johnson-took-advice-from-sw
edens-no-lockdown-scientist-before-rejecting-tougher-coronavirus-restrictions/ar-BB19nhrC


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

There was a cost in human lives, which shouldn't be overlooked.





I agree Sweden in its arrogance seems to have killed A LOT of its older people
but some are looking at the model again, maybe wondering about allowing it to spread in schools so stronger kids devolp immunity?

Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:


And that's what makes the new data about persistent, even permanent, heart and lung damage, even in young people, even in mild cases, so concerning. This could be the medical depth charge waiting to go off.



This seems to be a worry, some people although healthy are not fully recovered 100% and they might have long lasting damage it seems.

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Thursday, September 24, 2020 3:46 PM

REAVERFAN

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Monday, October 19, 2020 12:01 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

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Tuesday, October 20, 2020 7:07 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

There was a cost in human lives, which shouldn't be overlooked.

Quote:

Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
I agree Sweden in its arrogance seems to have killed A LOT of its older people
but some are looking at the model again, maybe wondering about allowing it to spread in schools so stronger kids [develop] immunity?

Sweden has a lot of its elderly population naturally isolated from young people. (Whether you think that's a good social structure or not is up to you.) On top of that, after its care-home debacle, Sweden added a lot of extra protections for those centers.

Most countries have a lot of multi-generation dwellings, and elderly and vulnerable people (those who have other risk factors besides age) who will otherwise get exposed in the course of daily living, like going shopping.

To be a viable strategy, you need to protect the vulnerable from the rest of the population who you've decided to let get infected. If you don't have that, Sweden's model falls apart as a consideration.

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Wednesday, October 21, 2020 10:32 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yes, there is something DIFFERENT about Sweden. Something that makes it NOT A GOOD MODEL for other nations. It's NOT their "herd immunity" program, it's the fact that they isolate their vulnerable elderly. Also, as a rule, their exposed population overall is fitter and healthier than .... say... the USA's. So even as Sweden's number of new cases is rising sharply their new deaths are at zero.

UNLIKE SWEDEN, in the USA, many young adults are livng with mom and/or dad. That means that the USA has multi-generational households. So even tho the United States is unwittingly, and slowly, following Sweden's example, with the # of new cases rising dramatically (like in Sweden) the #of new deaths isn't at "zero" and is unlikely to ever go to "zero".

As I was posting about the Swedish curve versus other nations, JSF said that I was forgetting age factor. I WAS NOT. The infection fatality rate and the case fatality among the over-70s is STILL VERY HIGH https://reason.com/2020/09/29/the-latest-cdc-estimates-of-covid-19s-in
fection-fatality-rate-vary-dramatically-with-age
/ and as far as I can tell has not budged downwards much. And there are still millions of vulnerable elderly people still around, so it's not as if the virus had already "reaped" the population of vulnerable and/or elderly.

So we still have plenty more deaths to go if we're to reach "herd immunity" (assuming that that ever happens and that SARS-CoV2 doesn't behave like an ordinary cold and infect people over and over.) because - unlike Sweden - we don't isolate our elderly from the virus, like they do.

In thinking about the different curves between #new infections versus #new deaths (or #new hospitalizations) and how they vary from nation to nation, I think the dramatic USA death spike at the beginning without the attendant dramatic infection spike was, as KIKI said, due to two things:

1) Lack of testing in the very beginning. Tests were is such short supply that even if you were suffering greatly with Covid at home, you didn't get tested. Imagine that the #new infections curve, at the very beginning of our epidemic, was 30-80X HIGHER than is portrayed, to account for the #of people not tested. The death to infection curves would look a lot more normal.

2) The infection hit the elderly cohort first.

There's no "X" immunity out there, and the virus is still the same and still whacking off the old and vulnerable. We have not reached "herd immunity" and are still about 90% away from it.

And so BTW is Sweden. They, too, are not anywhere near "herd immunity". Tellingly, SWEDEN has not done at recent random serological testing, but as of Mya, in Stockholm, with the highest infection rate, the serological tests indicate about 10%. Even if they've doubled that since then, they've still got about 80% to go

https://swprs.org/studies-on-covid-19-lethality/

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/10/17/covid-19-the-case-ag
ainst-herd-immunity
/

https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2020/10/12/letter-from-sweden-covid
-coronavirus/ideas/dispatches
/






-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Wednesday, October 21, 2020 1:45 PM

REAVERFAN


The pursuit of herd immunity is a folly – so who's funding this bad science?
Links between an anti-lockdown declaration and a libertarian thinktank suggest a hidden agenda
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/18/covid-herd-immun
ity-funding-bad-science-anti-lockdown


As we approach one of the most important elections in the history of western democracy (itself described as a referendum on lockdown), we should be asking who funded this piece of political theatre, and for what purpose. The American Institute for Economic Research (AIER), where the declaration was signed, is a libertarian thinktank that is, in its own words, committed to “pure freedom” and wishes to see the “role of government … sharply confined”.

The institute has a history of funding controversial research – such as a study extolling the benefits of sweatshops supplying multinationals for those employed in them – while its statements on climate change largely downplay the threats of the environmental crisis. It is a partner in the Atlas network of thinktanks, which acts as an umbrella for free-market and libertarian institutions, whose funders have included tobacco firms, ExxonMobil and the Koch brothers. Our questions to the AIER about its relationship to the three signatories went unanswered, but it has posted a number of articles about the declaration and herd immunity on its website.

These are not the names one would associate with sound public health policies. But the trio of scientists who fronted the declaration were able to put the weight of the world’s most prestigious academic institutions behind their statements – Stanford, Harvard and Oxford – giving the declaration a sheen of respectability. The views of these scientists about lockdown and the pursuit of herd immunity are no doubt sincerely held (though, notably, not published in any peer-reviewed scientific articles), but they are falling into a trap set by the right.

Rightwing free-market foundations and institutions have long attempted to savage the public reputation of well-intentioned policies such as those aimed at curbing ecological threats and limiting smoking. Some of the tactics these organisations have used in the past are those we see at play in the Great Barrington declaration: discredit the scientific consensus, spread confusion about what the right response is and sow the seeds of doubt. It seems that lockdown restrictions aimed at bringing the virus under control are merely the latest target in this rightwing stealth campaign.

The science is clear: attaining herd immunity to coronavirus via uncontrolled infection is a fringe view, peddled by a minority with no evidence to back up their position. What’s less certain is the political and economic interests that lie behind this declaration. Let the debate begin on those.
---
Looks like Koch is up to his old tricks again.



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Monday, November 16, 2020 1:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Looks like Sweden's "herd immunity" not so successful after all...

Quote:

Sweden sets new ‘absolutely necessary’ Covid-19 restrictions, limits public gatherings to 8 people
16 Nov, 2020 15:29

The Swedish government has announced new coronavirus restrictions will come into force for four weeks to limit socializing in the run-up to Christmas, amid soaring infections and falling compliance with current guidelines.

In a digital press conference on Monday, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said there had been concerning developments in the spread of Covid-19 in Sweden and that new restrictions are needed.

From November 24, gatherings of more than eight people will be banned for a month. The previous limit was 300 people.

Lofven called on Swedes to do their “duty” and take “responsibility” in slowing the spread of the virus. He also told people not to attend parties or dinners and to refrain from visiting the gym or cinema.

“These are very intrusive measures that are unparalleled in our history, but they are absolutely necessary to limit the infection,” the PM said.

This spring we saw a great compliance. Advice and recommendations were enough for most people to keep their distance and cancel plans. Now compliance is lower.

Lofven said the ban on group gatherings was justified because of rising Covid-19 cases, and that the guidance outlined by the health authorities was no longer being taken as seriously by some people. As a result, Sweden needed to move from recommending social distancing to bans.

The PM reiterated his government’s strategy in holding off on the more strident measures put in place elsewhere in Europe, claiming “we don't believe in a total lockdown, we believe the measures being implemented in total will have an effect.”

Last week, the country moved to ban the sale of alcohol after 10pm.

Sweden received a lot of international attention earlier in the year when it chose not to lockdown the country in response to the first wave of the coronavirus, unlike many other nations.

However, subsequent research showed Sweden suffered a very large number of deaths, taking into account its population size. Neighboring countries, such as Finland, had been considerably more successful in preventing fatalities.

Research from John Hopkins University highlights that Finland has recorded 6.69 deaths per 100,000 from Covid-19, whilst Sweden has registered 60.53 fatalities per 100,000.


https://www.rt.com/news/506879-sweden-covid19-restrictions-infections-
groups
/
And indeed, according to divoc-91, on a per-capita basis Sweden is right up there with the USA.

https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Monday, November 16, 2020 8:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Looks like Sweden's "herd immunity" not so successful after all...

Quote:

Sweden sets new ‘absolutely necessary’ Covid-19 restrictions, limits public gatherings to 8 people
... concerning developments in the spread of Covid-19 in Sweden and that new restrictions are needed

Apparently because ...
Quote:

compliance is lower.
Quote:

... subsequent research showed Sweden suffered a very large number of deaths, taking into account its population size. Neighboring countries, such as Finland, had been considerably more successful in preventing fatalities.

Research from John Hopkins University highlights that Finland has recorded 6.69 deaths per 100,000 from Covid-19, whilst Sweden has registered 60.53 fatalities per 100,000.

Quote:

And indeed, according to divoc-91, on a per-capita basis Sweden is right up there with the USA.
https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/


Yeah, sorry to say I stopped looking at Sweden a long time ago when I realized they had a lot of deaths per capita and their model couldn't be applied very generally anyway.

But anyway, going to the 91-DIVOC link, it looks like Sweden's exponential 'cases' rise began roughly 77 days ago (11 weeks), which would put it at early September, when the weather starts to get cooler and school resumes.

And as night inevitably follows day, 'deaths' follows 'cases', though timing and intensity vary over place and time. Looking at Sweden's 91-DIVOC curves again, the exponential rise in 'deaths' started about 35 days ago (5 weeks).

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Tuesday, November 17, 2020 3:48 PM

REAVERFAN


The right-wing case for Sweden’s pandemic response has completely collapsed
https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/right-wing-case-swedens-pandemic
-response-has-completely-collapsed


Right-wing media have championed Sweden’s “low-scale” approach to the coronavirus pandemic as an alternative to stricter government mandates deployed in the United States. On Fox News, pundits argued that Sweden’s policies would allow its population to swiftly reach “herd immunity” and questioned why the U.S. was “locking down” instead. Now that country is rushing to tighten restrictions following rapid increases in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths that are far in excess of those of its neighbors.

Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Lofven announced on Monday a reduction in the limit on public gatherings from 50 people to eight, citing lack of voluntary compliance with health recommendations to the public, after last week announcing plans to ban alcohol sales after 10 p.m. nationwide. “It is a clear and sharp signal to every person in our country as to what applies in the future,” he said at a press conference. “Don’t go to the gym, don’t go the library, don’t have dinner out, don’t have parties — cancel!”

The country’s COVID-19 caseload has spiked dramatically in recent weeks, vastly outpacing its neighbors and approaching that of the U.S., and hospitalizations and fatalities have inevitably followed.



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Saturday, November 21, 2020 8:40 PM

REAVERFAN


Covid-19: Sweden's herd immunity strategy has failed, hospitals inundated
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-swedens-herd-immunity-strate
gy-has-failed-hospitals-inundated/N5DXE42OZJOLRQGGXOT7WJOLSU
/

With numbers exploding, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven has been forced to swallow his pride and admit that he got it wrong.
---
Just like the US and Russia, except their leaders never admit when they're wrong.



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Saturday, November 21, 2020 10:01 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Thanks for agreeing with Signy and me.

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Saturday, November 21, 2020 10:14 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Thanks for agreeing with Signy and me.

Back at 'cha, Russian trolls.

It's fun to watch your fail trainwreck.



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Saturday, November 21, 2020 10:26 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Monday, November 16, 2020 1:08 PM
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Looks like Sweden's "herd immunity" not so successful after all...

Monday, November 16, 2020 8:05 PM
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
it looks like Sweden's exponential 'cases' rise began roughly 77 days ago ... the exponential rise in 'deaths' started about 35 days ago ...

Thanks for agreeing with Signy and me.

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Saturday, November 21, 2020 10:36 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Thanks for agreeing with Signy and I.



FIFY

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, November 22, 2020 12:01 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Nope.

Remove the name Signy, since it makes no difference to the grammar.

What is grammatical? Thanks for agreeing with I? Or, thanks for agreeing with me?

https://www.wikihow.com/Choose-Between-%22I%22-and-%22Me%22-Correctly

But THANKS for correcting me, and being wrong! ( ... just because you're in a shit-fit about COVID-19. )

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Sunday, November 22, 2020 12:06 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


OK Karen.

Fuck your Covid.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, November 22, 2020 12:29 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.





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Sunday, November 22, 2020 1:28 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Who's scared of any of that?



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, November 22, 2020 2:32 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.




I apologize to everyone for starting a thread to keep up with facts about SARS-COV-2, and driving JACKAREN over the edge with too much reality.

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Sunday, November 22, 2020 6:05 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
OK Karen.

Fuck your Covid.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



SIX, stop being a dick. If you can't discuss the topic without name-calling, then you obviously can't discuss the topic because you have nothing to say.

Stop being like WISHY, REAVERBOT, SECOND etc. You're better than that. Usually.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Sunday, November 22, 2020 6:56 AM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
OK Karen.

Fuck your Covid.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



SIX, stop being a dick. If you can't discuss the topic without name-calling, then you obviously can't discuss the topic because you have nothing to say.

Stop being like WISHY, REAVERBOT, SECOND etc. You're better than that. Usually.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

Oh, the irony!



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Sunday, November 22, 2020 9:14 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Seems like its done, the admitted the flaw in this strategy

Although I would not be surprised to see if some of the West in some non-official off the record strategy, adopts some kind of herd strategy maybe for immunity among healthy people in the schools or University / College ... Sweden has reversed the decision maybe to save face after a year long disaster?

Why is Finland coping so well with the coronavirus crisis?
https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-finland-sweden-role-model/a-55664117

Sweden reports record daily cases; Madrid to seal itself from other regions for 10 days
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/nov/20/coronavirus-live-ne
ws-china-has-given-1m-people-sinopharm-vaccine-us-cdc-warns-against-thanksgiving-travel?page=with:block-5fb7da578f08f7cc12bd8cec


Sweden introduces tighter restrictions to halt surging coronavirus cases
https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/sweden-introduces-tighter-restric
tions-to-halt-surging-coronavirus-cases/ar-BB1aZF5k



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Sunday, November 22, 2020 11:47 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
OK Karen.

Fuck your Covid.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



SIX, stop being a dick. If you can't discuss the topic without name-calling, then you obviously can't discuss the topic because you have nothing to say.




I've already said everything that needs to be said on the topic, and she's the one attacking me. Take a look at the timeline on the three threads regarding the issue last night. She threw the first insult.

Kiki doesn't need to be bringing that shit into the garden.

Covid is bullshit. She can keep her paranoid delusions in with the rest of the thrash threads on this board.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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