REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

My thoughts on the Middel East

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Saturday, May 2, 2015 15:25
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3680
PAGE 1 of 1

Monday, August 11, 2014 12:58 PM

THGRRI


My insights into why the critics on the far right are wrong. They always want to jump in feet first as the winds change direction in the Middle East. A place where moods, politics and loyalties change as easily as the sands shift with the winds. George Bush sold the world on Iraq and the Middle East being ripe for Democracy. So we invested Billions, even trillions out of our treasury. We saw thousands of American soldiers die and around 45 to fifty thousand wounded. Well Iraq has collapsed. The conservatives here will say it is Obamas fault for not leaving troops behind. Iraq is sovereign and they told us to leave. He had no choice. Even if we were still there, we would be playing out the role of being Maliki’s private army. An army to keep in check the various sects who Maliki strong armed out of the military and from places of power within his administration. No, that is not a good role for us to play. Iraq fell apart because the politics within Iraq was not right. The people of Iraq were not ready to come together to create an inclusive government. Lesson 1, pouring lots of guns, money and troops into a Middle Eastern country will not work in terms of stabilizing it.

The next thing we tried was limited air strikes with no boots on the ground in Libya. After we achieved our objective, it too fell apart because the politics within the country was wrong. The people could not come together to create an inclusive government. So limited air strikes will not work to stabilize a Middle Eastern country. Two strategies tried and failed.

Without learning the lessons of these two wars the Republicans are all over the President for not arming the rebels in Syria. They blame him for the development of ISIS as though arming the middle class in Syria would lead to victory. A victory over a trained army supplied and supported by Russia and Iran. Easy to say arm the freedom fighters in Syria but we don’t know who they are. We cannot find many who are not crazy to whom we should give weapons. There is no one there who has a planned out agenda we can get behind. With that the thousands who flock to Syria to fight are all radical. You don’t see moderates leaving home to take up the cause. Syria too, is a country that has the same make up as the rest of the Middle East. So why do some believe that had we armed a few school teachers this would end in success? One good thing is Hamas was helping to prop up the Syrian government and they just got the snot kicked out of them by Israel. This will hinder the support they can provide to the Syrian government.

Addressing what’s happening in the Middle East means we need to be very selective and calm. ISIS could be rolled back rather quickly with air and intelligence support from us provided to the right people. The moderate leaning Muslims across the Middle East (of which there are many more than radicals) have to make up their mind they have had enough. They have to stand up in mass. The Sunnis will decide they do not want to live like ISIS demands and will route them as they did Al Qaeda. We will help them as we did before but they have to be ready. The Kurds have been our best allies there and we should continue to support them. As that transpires and Iraq picks new leadership things will shift again. One telltale sign the moderates may have had enough is the lack of support for Hamas across the Arab world.

To all those out there who have criticized the United States for not helping to force change in the past, perhaps living with the devil you know looks a little more like good policy than it did a week ago. We can no more create a country of our choosing in the Middle East with our army and money as we can stand by and do nothing. One thing is for certain. At least 1 in 10 of the radicals who head the Middle East to fight come from Europe. They better wake up and help form a collation that works together to determine who we assist and how we help the Middle East through its transition. It’s London and France that are going to get it the worst when these radicals return home. They have been napping for a generation now, and as well as in the Middle East they need to act decisively with Russia as well. The smart money has always been on the Arab Spring taking about 10 to 20 years to work itself out. Thank god for the NSA, we are going to really need them now.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 1:39 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


The similarities to Vietnam are scary. How long do we prop up a weak and corrupt regime that we think is on our side, but is only loyal because we'll do the heavy work and let them cruise along; then collapse when we expect them to carry on the job by themselves?

No matter how much we hope and claim so, their values do not match ours. ALL sides there are anti-American and pro-Iranian, it's just a question of degree, and how much they have to pretend to agree with us to get us to keep doing the work and sending the money.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 1:58 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

…New
The similarities to Vietnam are scary. How long do we prop up a weak and corrupt regime that we think is on our side, but is only loyal because we'll do the heavy work and let them cruise along; then collapse when we expect them to carry on the job by themselves?



We are not going to prop up anyone. We will assist the Sunni Kurds to the North who have always been our allies. We will assist the Iraqi army when they join with the Sunni’s in territory now controlled by ISIS to route ISIS but probably only sparingly until then.

Quote:

….New
No matter how much we hope and claim so, their values do not match ours. ALL sides there are anti-American and pro-Iranian, it's just a question of degree, and how much they have to pretend to agree with us to get us to keep doing the work and sending the money.



Many of the Muslims in the world who like us most live in Iran. Don’t mistake Middle Eastern government’s attitudes for those of its people. Most Arabs do want stability and freedom. It is just their understanding of what freedom means varies from ours. If anything good comes from ISIS it may be that more Muslims see the need for a separation when it comes to church and state. That to follow scriptures to their purist form may not be so desirable.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 5:27 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Point of fact, Obama pulled us out, we were not told to leave. The focal point of all this was the Status of Forces agreement between Iraq and the US.

He was far more interested in keeping a campaign promise over a war he never thought we should have started than keeping peace in the region.

As for recent events in Iraq, standard operating procedure for Barry - blame anyone but himself. He was TOLD about what was going on with ISIS, and yet he didn't care. Not his problem. Any screw up taking place in Iraq was , in HIS view, a direct result of Bush's failed policy, and Barry could care less.

And now he's trying to say it was 'bad intel' which kept him from knowing just how bad ISIS really was. This is the same ISIS group that Obama himself referred to as the JV team, in comparison to al- Qaeda.

Effing moron ...

Also, as for Syria, it's pretty simple. We backed the wrong " rebels ". You see, it's not so simple to draw a clean line between Asad and those trying to overthrow him. We would have done well enough to simply back the FSA ( Free Syrian Army ) but noooo. We insanely backed the Muslim Brotherhood supported thugs, which turn out to be - SHOCKER ! ISIS. Blame can be spread around well enough ( Maverick McCain, I'm looking right at YOU ! ) , but the fact of the matter is, Barry is the President. His ties to the Muslim Brotherhood clearly have had a role in all this, and blood is on HIS hands.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 5:48 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Point of fact, Obama pulled us out, we were not told to leave. The focal point of all this was the Status of Forces agreement between Iraq and the US.

He was far more interested in keeping a campaign promise over a war he never thought we should have started than keeping peace in the region.

As for recent events in Iraq, standard operating procedure for Barry - blame anyone but himself. He was TOLD about what was going on with ISIS, and yet he didn't care. Not his problem. Any screw up taking place in Iraq was , in HIS view, a direct result of Bush's failed policy, and Barry could care less.

And now he's trying to say it was 'bad intel' which kept him from knowing just how bad ISIS really was. This is the same ISIS group that Obama himself referred to as the JV team, in comparison to al- Qaeda.

Effing moron ...

Also, as for Syria, it's pretty simple. We backed the wrong " rebels ". You see, it's not so simple to draw a clean line between Asad and those trying to overthrow him. We would have done well enough to simply back the FSA ( Free Syrian Army ) but noooo. We insanely backed the Muslim Brotherhood supported thugs, which turn out to be - SHOCKER ! ISIS. Blame can be spread around well enough ( Maverick McCain, I'm looking right at YOU ! ) , but the fact of the matter is, Barry is the President. His ties to the Muslim Brotherhood clearly have had a role in all this, and blood is on HIS hands.



Nope not accurate. The only other alternative to leaving was to leave our troops subject to Iraqi laws. If they accidently killed civilians they would have to face an Iraqi court. They are sovereign now and get to make the rules. We would be occupiers if we denied them that and that is not what this country is about. With that being the case we had to leave. The troops their protecting our citizens will only get involved to defend themselves and for training purposes and are constricted by rules of engagement.

That adds up to having no choice. And if you read what I said to start this thread, if we were still there we would be little more that Maliki's puppets. Creating tons more resentment against us by the Sunnis. Who is ISIS and Al Qaeda. When the hostilities we had Sunni friends. Still do in the Kurds.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 5:53 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Thanks for the WH party line, but I'm not buying it. The only folks who wanted us out completely were those who support ISIS.

How's that working out for the DEMOCRACY of Iraq now ?

Obama wanted NO troops in Iraq. NONE.

Mitt ?


http://launch.newsinc.com/share.html?trackingGroup=91074&siteSecti
on=breitbartprivate&videoId=26500512

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 5:57 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Thanks for the WH party line, but I'm not buying it. The only folks who wanted us out completely were those who support ISIS.

How's that working out for the DEMOCRACY of Iraq now ?




You can state your opinions Rappy but you can't change the facts. Research anywhere you like and you will find what I said to be true.

"The negotiations foundered over the U.S. demand that American troops receive legal immunity for their actions, a request Maliki was ultimately unable to sell to the anti-U.S. elements of his governing coalition after a war that many Iraqis believe has permanently altered their country for the worse".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/all-us-troops-to
-leave-iraq/2011/10/21/gIQAUyJi3L_story.html

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 6:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


It's not true. And there in lies the error of your thinking.

If what you said WERE true, then I can see how you'd arrive at the conclusion you did. But it isn't. You're buying the admin's line, and until you educate yourself , there's nothing more I can say on this matter.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 6:04 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's not true.

Simply find a quote from a reasonably reputable source stating that our troops would have been under U.S. laws whist staying & prove your point then.


But you can't.

Sorry, try again. This has been debunked. Once again, you are demonstrably in error, and ensconced in the endless anti-whom-you-hate bullshit. Feel free to go on, and prove yourself more the idiot than you have already (Heh, if that's even possible at this point).
You proved me right here.
Thanks.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 6:04 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's not true. And there in lies the error of your thinking.

If what you said WERE true, then I can see how you'd arrive at the conclusion you did. But it isn't. You're buying the admin's line, and until you educate yourself , there's nothing more I can say on this matter.



As I said, research it for yourself. If you think something this big could be factually wrong then it would have to have gotten by the press and everyone else. There is no way to hide whether this is true. Way to many people were involved in this decision. Even the Republicans chalk it up to him not trying hard enough. Really, Really, if the Iraqis wanted us there they would have just agreed to it.

"The negotiations foundered over the U.S. demand that American troops receive legal immunity for their actions, a request Maliki was ultimately unable to sell to the anti-U.S. elements of his governing coalition after a war that many Iraqis believe has permanently altered their country for the worse".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/all-us-troops-to
-leave-iraq/2011/10/21/gIQAUyJi3L_story.html

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 6:09 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's not true.

Simply find a quote from a reasonably reputable source stating that our troops would have been under U.S. laws whist staying & prove your point then.


But you can't.




It's called going to bat for what is right. Many in Iraq wanted us there, many did not. Obama never wanted us there, and summarily got us the hell out, which resulted in ISIS waltzing in , just like they did.

See above link. Question already answered.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 6:11 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's not true.

Simply find a quote from a reasonably reputable source stating that our troops would have been under U.S. laws whist staying & prove your point then.


But you can't.




It's called going to bat for what is right. Many in Iraq wanted us there, many did not. Obama never wanted us there, and summarily got us the hell out, which resulted in ISIS waltzing in , just like they did.

See above link. Question already answered.



All the Iraqis had to was sign, they said no rap it's that simple. You can blame the President it's your right, but you are still wrong.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 6:12 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Hillary Clinton, Siding With Republicans, Criticizes Obama's 'Don't Do Stupid Stuff' Iraq, ISIS, Syria Policies

In a lengthy foreign policy interview for The Atlantic, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton echoed many of the same critiques of President Barack Obama's "don't do stupid stuff" foreign policy mantra recently offered by Republicans.

"Great nations need organizing principles, and 'Don't do stupid stuff' is not an organizing principle," Clinton told Jeffrey Goldberg in the interview conducted early last week and published Sunday.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/hillary-clinton-siding-with-republic
ans-criticizes-obamas-dont-do-stupid-stuff-iraq-isis-syria-policies-124670
/






And per Iraq, Obama didn't WANT an agreement. That's the point you're missing. He wanted out, entirely.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 6:16 PM

CHRISISALL


Go on proving nothing, Crappy, you do it so well.

Sorry, try again. This has been debunked. Once again, you are demonstrably in error, and ensconced in the endless anti-whom-you-hate bullshit. Feel free to go on, and prove yourself more the idiot than you have already (Heh, if that's even possible at this point).
You proved me right here.
Thanks.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 6:17 PM

THGRRI


Hillary wanted us to go into Iraq in the first place. The colossal mistake that started this. I would say to Hillary what Bill Clinton said about the gripes of Cheney and Obama not working hard enough to clean up his mess. Hillary is running for President and she sees which way the wind is blowing. She better hope in two years she is not defending herself again about saying what she is saying now. So far Joe Biden is the one who called it right.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 6:17 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

And per Iraq, Obama didn't WANT an agreement. That's the point you're missing. He wanted out, entirely.

Doesn't matter, that's not the issue, except in you own little mind.

Sorry, try again. This has been debunked. Once again, you are demonstrably in error, and ensconced in the endless anti-whom-you-hate bullshit. Feel free to go on, and prove yourself more the idiot than you have already (Heh, if that's even possible at this point).
You proved me right here.
Thanks.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 6:22 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Hillary wanted us to go into Iraq in the first place. The colossal mistake that started this. I would say to Hillary what Bill Clinton said about the gripes of Cheney and Obama not working hard enough to clean up his mess. Hillary is running for President and she sees which way the wind is blowing. She better hope in two years she is not defending herself again about saying what she is saying now. So far Joe Biden is the one who called it right.



Also wanted to add...

NBC’s David Gregory had some unpredictably harsh words for the White House during an interview with Senator Dick Durbin on Sunday, noting that “a big, expansive terrorist threat that has amassed” under President Obama’s watch.

The “Meet the Press” host spoke with the Illinois Democrat over the limited air campaign ordered by the president to blunt the advance of ultra-violent jihadists in northern Iraq. Gregory requested the senator’s insight as to how the United States found itself again involved in the region.

“Is the problem that the Obama administration — wanting to be something other than President Bush – got out of the business of confronting terrorism on a big, global scale and just dealt with it in a more limited way?” he asked. “Is it an underreaction to the terrorist threat?”

Durbin tried to steer the conversation specifically back to Iraq, but Gregory cut him off. ”I’m talking about the terrorist threat!” he said. “I’m talking about fighting terrorism.”


“The Obama team said, ‘We are not in the business of a global fight against terror, we’re fighting al-Qaida in limited forms,” the NBC host continued. “This is a big, expansive terrorist threat that has amassed on his watch.”

http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/10/david-gregory-slams-obama-big-expans
ive-terrorist-threat-amassed-on-his-watch/#ixzz3A7mhv6Al


And this gem...

Top NBC reporters Chuck Todd and Andrea Mitchell turned on President Obama over his excuses for Iraq’s unravelling on Sunday, with Todd claiming he never tried to secure a 2011 troop agreement with the Iraqi government and Mitchell calling the White House’s bad intelligence excuse “a farce.”

The pair unloaded on the Obama administration during Sunday’s “Meet the Press,” calling it aimless and needling its excuses for the sudden surge of ultra-violent jihadis in northern Iraq.

As American bombs again fall on that country, President Obama responded to criticism that we should have left troops inside Iraq after 2011 by claiming the Iraqi government pushed the U.S. out.

“But, this president ideologically did not want to use more influence to –” host David Gregory began.

“Look, this was not an administration that was eager to tell [Iraqi Prime Minister] Maliki, ‘Oh, you don’t want a status-of-forces agreement?’” Todd agreed, explaining how the White House failed to pursue any agreement that would have left a stabilizing force.


“I’ve been trying to figure out this man’s doctrine now for six years,” Todd continued. “He doesn’t have one . . . He pushes and pulls between the idea of democracy first and stability first . . . Now he’s trying for stability first, and I think in this case he’s struggling.”


http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/10/nbcs-todd-mitchell-sour-on-obama-ove
r-iraq-excuses-a-farce/#ixzz3A7nCs1fS





Ever Obama's biggest fans , now we see even THEY are starting to see the Emperor has nothing on.

Took 'em long enough.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 6:25 PM

THGRRI


Rappy this last post by you is a good post. I have to go out but will address it in about an hour or so. Hope you check back.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 6:27 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

And per Iraq, Obama didn't WANT an agreement. That's the point you're missing. He wanted out, entirely.

Doesn't matter, that's not the issue, except in you own little mind.




Me and TEA PARTY fan David Gregory, huh?


You're such a boob.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 6:50 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Well, you've outed yourself AGAIN, Rappy, Good Job!

PROTip: Timestamps!
A little patience goes a long way!

-Frem

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 7:18 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Well, you've outed yourself AGAIN, Rappy, Good Job!

PROTip: Timestamps!
A little patience goes a long way!

-Frem



So YOU'RE what going crazy looks like !


I take a bit o' comfort in the knowledge that you're so bat guano crazy, you see things which simply are not true, and obsess over things like sock puppets.

What ever gets ya through the day, chief.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 7:24 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

]Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Well, you've outed yourself AGAIN, Rappy, Good Job!

PROTip: Timestamps!
A little patience goes a long way!


I've been wondering why he's been doing this. He's actually done a better than average job with the alternate character, just minor if apparent-to-us slip ups. But reasonably good jobs coming up with anti-Rap arguments. Is it a compulsion or something?
If I were new to a board & was told I sounded like someone else and saw that it was true, I'd alter it a bit to not be confused with the other person. But again, that's a real reaction, not a made up slip-up.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 7:30 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Et tu, Chrissy ?

ROFLMAO !

What a bunch of maroons ! Stop it, you're kilin' me !

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 7:46 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

]Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Well, you've outed yourself AGAIN, Rappy, Good Job!

PROTip: Timestamps!
A little patience goes a long way!


I've been wondering why he's been doing this. He's actually done a better than average job with the alternate character, just minor if apparent-to-us slip ups. But reasonably good jobs coming up with anti-Rap arguments. Is it a compulsion or something?
If I were new to a board & was told I sounded like someone else and saw that it was true, I'd alter it a bit to not be confused with the other person. But again, that's a real reaction, not a made up slip-up.


Well, I find it offensive to my villainous pride that he's so goddamn desperate he can't even manage the pretense properly, at least *PRETEND* the sockpuppet isn't himself, hold off for fifteen-plus minutes befoe posting the jackboot salivation party, you know ?

But no, he's so hell-bent on trying to prove he isn't ALONE, unwanted, unwelcome, and so thoroughly deluded that no sane person would ever agree with his madness that he quickly rotates though the self-fellating logins in such a fashion as is obvious to all who can count to eleven without taking their shoes off, and it reveals him utterly for the slime that he truly is and always has been.

-Frem

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 7:47 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

]Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Well, you've outed yourself AGAIN, Rappy, Good Job!

PROTip: Timestamps!
A little patience goes a long way!


I've been wondering why he's been doing this. He's actually done a better than average job with the alternate character, just minor if apparent-to-us slip ups. But reasonably good jobs coming up with anti-Rap arguments. Is it a compulsion or something?
If I were new to a board & was told I sounded like someone else and saw that it was true, I'd alter it a bit to not be confused with the other person. But again, that's a real reaction, not a made up slip-up.


Well, I find it offensive to my villainous pride that he's so goddamn desperate he can't even manage the pretense properly, at least *PRETEND* the sockpuppet isn't himself, hold off for fifteen-plus minutes befoe posting the jackboot salivation party, you know ?

But no, he's so hell-bent on trying to prove he isn't ALONE, unwanted, unwelcome, and so thoroughly deluded that no sane person would ever agree with his madness that he quickly rotates though the self-fellating logins in such a fashion as is obvious to all who can count to eleven without taking their shoes off, and it reveals him utterly for the slime that he truly is and always has been.

-Frem



Can't let this one get away.


Tooo precious !

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 7:54 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:



Tooo precious !

well put.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 7:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:



Tooo precious !

well put.



I know. That's why I put it.


Find it funny that Niki always accused me of 'stalking', when ever my replies to her posts followed TOO close to hers, or I happened to be the first one to reply to her threads.

Now the 'evidence' of sock puppetry is apparently the same thing.

By Frem's and your genius powers of deduction, I'm Niki !!

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 7:59 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Quote:

By Frem's and your genius powers of deduction, I'm Niki !!
You're just too stupid.
Later player.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 8:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Rappy this last post by you is a good post. I have to go out but will address it in about an hour or so. Hope you check back.



Come along now, it's been far more than 15 minutes. Time to reply.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 9:03 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

....Rappy
NBC’s David Gregory had some unpredictably harsh words for the White House during an interview with Senator Dick Durbin on Sunday, noting that “a big, expansive terrorist threat that has amassed” under President Obama’s watch.



David Gregory is a good reporter. A lot of good reporters have questioned Obamas strategies. A lot of good Democrats and Republicans have as well. That’s fair and important. Honest men should have honest discussions. Knowing what to do in the Middle East is always guess work at best. Arming Sunni fighters in Syria who you have no knowledge of is not a viable option. If Sig is right and the Saudis shipped arms indiscriminately into Syria, then much of the blame belongs with them. A lot of reputable people say Obama sent a bad message when he drew a red line in the sand and the Syrians crossed it. They say he looked weak by not doing a few fly byes and dropping a few bombs. I personally think he showed a needed flexibility in accepting the offer of the Syrians to give up all their chemicals weapons instead. I think that shows great sense. He also realized those who would criticize him for not bombing would not take the hard vote in congress to back him up. That’s why he put it to them to decide. All the same people you quote here agreed they would not back him.

Let’s not forget we have tried arming some so they make take care of themselves. We know them as the Iraqi army. We even fought side by side with them, trained them, just to watch them drop their guns and flee. Now ISIS has rockets and tanks. The loudest critics are always the same critics and so far there judgment has been abysmal.
Quote:

….Rappy

The “Meet the Press” host spoke with the Illinois Democrat over the limited air campaign ordered by the president to blunt the advance of ultra-violent jihadists in northern Iraq. Gregory requested the senator’s insight as to how the United States found itself again involved in the region.



Sorry but the video is blocked by my tracking protection so I won’t be watching it. I have glanced at the text though. David suggests Obama wants another approach than the one Bush took. Kerry said we should see this as a global law enforcement problem while running for President himself, and I agree. Yes we needed to go into Afghanistan but not to nation build. That was a mistake. Iraq was a master stroke of insanity so I agree that Obama should try as he has to tone it down. David is also missing the point that Iraq is the problem as Durbin wanted to explain. You cannot come up with a fix if you do not understand the problem. Had we not gone into Iraq there would be no ISIS there. You need to understand that to understand why we should not get to heavily involved elsewhere. How about we not make the same mistake and we try a different approach. Don’t forget, the press needs to create anxiety to attract viewers. I say we have some time and as Obama said, let’s not do something stupid.

Quote:

....Rappy
“Is the problem that the Obama administration — wanting to be something other than President Bush – got out of the business of confronting terrorism on a big, global scale and just dealt with it in a more limited way?” he asked. “Is it an underreaction to the terrorist threat?”



We have been doing some serious terrorist fighting since 911. Most of the problems we encounter today are because of mistakes made by us in how we’ve gone about it. Obama has taken out more of al Qaeda than bush has and he got Bin laden. I might add he did it at a fraction of the cost in lives and treasure as well. I say we take a breath and listen to our military and advisers. Not the war mongers Gram and McCain. Had we not gone into Iraq the American people might have more of a stomach to be more aggressive. Until now they wanted nothing to do with helping Syria or anyone else.

Quote:

….Rappy
“The Obama team said, ‘We are not in the business of a global fight against terror, we’re fighting al-Qaida in limited forms,” the NBC host continued. “This is a big, expansive terrorist threat that has amassed on his watch.”



When, rap when did Obama said this. I think he is trying to tone it down. The Muslim countries we are dealing with will only produce more fighters as we ratchet up the rhetoric. Trust to the fact that Obama gets daily briefing by the military and advisors so he knows better than you and I what we are up against.

Quote:

….Rappy
Top NBC reporters Chuck Todd and Andrea Mitchell turned on President Obama over his excuses for Iraq’s unravelling on Sunday, with Todd claiming he never tried to secure a 2011 troop agreement with the Iraqi government and Mitchell calling the White House’s bad intelligence excuse “a farce.”



Andrea Mitchell is a very good reporter but she is in the pocket of Hillary Clinton. She always has been and she always gets the best access to the Clintons because of it. Hillary is speaking out and Mitchell is following her lead. I agree with Todd to the extent it sounds like an excuse but I have heard a hundred other reporters and analysts say everyone they spoke with was completely caught off guard by ISIS. Think about it, the Iraqis were so caught off guard several thousand routed several hundred thousand. Everybody forgets that. Why would Obama have insights to see that coming when no one else did?

Quote:

….Rappy
The pair unloaded on the Obama administration during Sunday’s “Meet the Press,” calling it aimless and needling its excuses for the sudden surge of ultra-violent jihadis in northern Iraq.



What they say might have merit but I hear the nay sayers nay with little regard for what they suggest he should have done, as having been tried already and resulted in things only getting worse. I think there is a bit of pilling on here.

Quote:

….Rappy
As American bombs again fall on that country, President Obama responded to criticism that we should have left troops inside Iraq after 2011 by claiming the Iraqi government pushed the U.S. out.

“But, this president ideologically did not want to use more influence to –” host David Gregory began. “Look, this was not an administration that was eager to tell [Iraqi Prime Minister] Maliki, ‘Oh, you don’t want a status-of-forces agreement?’” Todd agreed, explaining how the White House failed to pursue any agreement that would have left a stabilizing force.



I don’t think so. He tried but Maliki wanted us out. Why, because we keep pushing him to have an inclusive government. You can clearly see by what he is doing now that he needed us out so he could stay in power. It’s pretty obvious and Obama may have sensed staying was just not an option. I trust him on that. Besides, I do not want our military to be Maliki’s sock puppets.

Quote:

….Rappy
“I’ve been trying to figure out this man’s doctrine now for six years,” Todd continued. “He doesn’t have one . . . He pushes and pulls between the idea of democracy first and stability first . . . Now he’s trying for stability first, and I think in this case he’s struggling.”



Todd has been around a long time. He has seen the old guard operate for many years now. He hears the gripes of that same old guard now because they have their way of seeing things. I am glad we are not rushing into the next war blindly as we have been doing. Which as I said, created much of the problems we are dealing with today. As far as I am concerned Obama has not fucked things up nearly as bad the previous administration did or as Gram and McCain would have us do again. Maybe I see this as what it is and as I fear many do not. Something the Middle East has to take the lead in fixing and it will take many, many years.

Besides, if we over extend ourselves before our allies show up to the fight, they will not show up at all. As with the Ukraine, we need to be patient.

Good post Rappy. It was worth discussing without the usual poke in the eye shit.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 10:12 PM

THGRRI


Hey Rappy;


Thanks for the signature. I will use it a bit and let it go. As for your post where I found it, you are definitely tea party/libertarian. I have to say reading your statement about you having loyalties only to yourself and not to this country, shows me you have no right what so ever suggesting someone else go off to war to protect your sorry ass. You need to shut the fuck up about Obamas foreign policies. They are none of your business. As a matter of fact, anything Obama or any government offical does is none of your business. Why should it be? You have no loyalties to this country. As stated by you. I think you should not have a picture of George C Scott in uniform portraying Patton as your logo. I'm sure Patton would slap your ass silly if he were here. He'd probably say "your nothing but a god dam coward" and then try to shoot you.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 10:44 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Nice follow up to this...

Quote:

Good post Rappy. It was worth discussing without the usual poke in the eye shit.


Psycho much ?


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 11:07 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Nice follow up to this...

Quote:

Good post Rappy. It was worth discussing without the usual poke in the eye shit.


Psycho much ?




You need to go up one and you will see my first post. The one you are looking at came after I followed a link into your past. Piss poor if you ask me to suggest we do all this shit in the Middle East when you claim to have no loyalties to this country at all. That being the case our guys dying is fine so long as their is no cost to you in taxes or anything else.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 11:12 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



What 'link to my past' are you referring ?

I never claimed any such thing as you are suggesting, so utterly out of context and unrelated to this thread, I have no idea what in the sam hill you're yammering about.

Glad ya like the River sig. One of my all time favs.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 11:17 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

What 'link to my past' are you referring ?

I never claimed any such thing as you are suggesting, so utterly out of context and unrelated to this thread, I have no idea what in the sam hill you're yammering about.

Glad ya like the River sig. One of my all time favs.



Give me a minute I will find and post it here. While I do so check out my promised response to the post I enjoyed.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 11:19 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I'm less inclined to carry on a civil discussion w/ those who name call and wish I'd be shot for things I don't believe or things I never said.


Hope you understand.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, August 11, 2014 11:24 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'm less inclined to carry on a civil discussion w/ those who name call and wish I'd be shot for things I don't believe or things I never said.


Hope you understand.



I do understand. I went back and found the post Fern posted a link to and in reading it again realized my mistake in what you said. Here is the part I misread and what set me off. In fact reading it again I kind of agree to this passage.

I was wrong and I do apologize.

We belong to ourselves. No country, no political party, no religion, no company owns us. We might say we have no choice to stay w/ the crappy job, but we're kidding ourselves. There are 2 things we have no choice in, being born, and dying. All we do in between is basically up to us.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=37576


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:30 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'm less inclined to carry on a civil discussion w/ those who name call and wish I'd be shot for things I don't believe or things I never said.


Hope you understand.



I do understand. I went back and found the post Fern posted a link to and in reading it again realized my mistake in what you said. Here is the part I misread and what set me off. In fact reading it again I kind of agree to this passage.

I was wrong and I do apologize.




Thanks for saying so , and thanks for going back and actually READING what I had said, and not what you THOUGHT I had said. Too often, ( and we all do this ) people are predisposed to think the worst or best in others simply because of false perceptions or simply because of how they see others react , and simply follow suit.

' If he's for it, I'm agin it ', or that sort of nonsense.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:37 PM

THGRRI


Yep and I don't like when it's done to me. If wrong it's best to admit it, especially if someone has been wronged. Also I feel if you don't you lose all credibility.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, August 15, 2014 8:49 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Meanwhile...

EXPERT: Obama's Reconciliation With Iran Helps Fuel Middle East Mayhem


On Friday July 25, as war raged in Gaza, John Kerry delivered a draft ceasefire agreement to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who then presented it to his security cabinet for consideration.

Because the proposal granted Hamas a significant political victory, acquiescing, up front, in a number of the terrorist group’s key demands.

While failing even to mention Israel’s two primary concerns of infiltration tunnels and rockets—the ministers unanimously rejected it.

When unnamed officials leaked the document to Israel’s habitually left-leaning press, along with an account of the government’s thinking, a firestorm of indignation erupted—not, however, at Netanyahu but at the American Secretary of State. The views of one highly respected journalist were typical. Kerry’s proposal, he wrote, “raises serious doubts over his judgment. . . . It’s as if he isn’t the foreign minister of the world’s most powerful nation but an alien who just disembarked his spaceship in the Middle East.”



Read more: http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/iran-at-saban/posts/2014/08/13-doran-ob
ama-middle-east-policy-danger-to-allies#ixzz3ASpTBRVK




Short verion of all this - the admin is utterly incompetent and in way over their heads.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, August 15, 2014 10:05 AM

THGRRI


Do not underestimate Israel’s agenda and what happens if you threaten that. Kerry must have as did Obama. They must have given Israel the impression they don’t get to call all the shots as to how we Americans are to behave. No other nation is more responsible for Israel’s continued existence. We have suffered many terrorists’ attacks, lost many lives and too much treasury over the years because of it. It’s bullshit for them to say shit to us when they don’t get everything they want. Even in this last war with Hamas we backed them to the hilt. The problem is, some of the weapons we supplied come with rules of engagement. They are violating those rules. Have you heard about that or just about them complaining about Kerry to shut him up and push him aside? Already Israel has admitted to some so called leaked documents being false. I am referring to phone transcripts that were forged between Obama and Netanyahu.

I don’t know about you but if Israel cannot make peace happen then we should, or cut back our support dramatically. Enough is enough and I don’t want to have this country experience another 60 years of this shit. Now I back not letting Hamas gain any credit for any gains the PLO may get out of this, but it is time for Israel to make things happen. I don’t care how but they need to get it done. And they should have to do it with Kerry. How is it they get to dictate to us who they will speak with? Kerry is Secretary of State and they should have to continue to deal with him. I think part of pushing peace should be in the form of letting Israel see Americans are losing patience. Not just this administration but the American people as well because administrations change.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 2, 2015 11:34 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI: Monday, August 11, 2014 12:58 PM


My insights into why the critics on the far right are wrong. They always want to jump in feet first as the winds change direction in the Middle East. A place where moods, politics and loyalties change as easily as the sands shift with the winds. George Bush sold the world on Iraq and the Middle East being ripe for Democracy. So we invested Billions, even trillions out of our treasury. We saw thousands of American soldiers die and around 45 to fifty thousand wounded. Well Iraq has collapsed. The conservatives here will say it is Obamas fault for not leaving troops behind. Iraq is sovereign and they told us to leave. He had no choice. Even if we were still there, we would be playing out the role of being Maliki’s private army. An army to keep in check the various sects who Maliki strong armed out of the military and from places of power within his administration. No, that is not a good role for us to play. Iraq fell apart because the politics within Iraq was not right. The people of Iraq were not ready to come together to create an inclusive government. Lesson 1, pouring lots of guns, money and troops into a Middle Eastern country will not work in terms of stabilizing it.

The next thing we tried was limited air strikes with no boots on the ground in Libya. After we achieved our objective, it too fell apart because the politics within the country was wrong. The people could not come together to create an inclusive government. So limited air strikes will not work to stabilize a Middle Eastern country. Two strategies tried and failed.

Without learning the lessons of these two wars the Republicans are all over the President for not arming the rebels in Syria. They blame him for the development of ISIS as though arming the middle class in Syria would lead to victory. A victory over a trained army supplied and supported by Russia and Iran. Easy to say arm the freedom fighters in Syria but we don’t know who they are. We cannot find many who are not crazy to whom we should give weapons. There is no one there who has a planned out agenda we can get behind. With that the thousands who flock to Syria to fight are all radical. You don’t see moderates leaving home to take up the cause. Syria too, is a country that has the same make up as the rest of the Middle East. So why do some believe that had we armed a few school teachers this would end in success? One good thing is Hamas was helping to prop up the Syrian government and they just got the snot kicked out of them by Israel. This will hinder the support they can provide to the Syrian government.

Addressing what’s happening in the Middle East means we need to be very selective and calm. ISIS could be rolled back rather quickly with air and intelligence support from us provided to the right people. The moderate leaning Muslims across the Middle East (of which there are many more than radicals) have to make up their mind they have had enough. They have to stand up in mass. The Sunnis will decide they do not want to live like ISIS demands and will route them as they did Al Qaeda. We will help them as we did before but they have to be ready. The Kurds have been our best allies there and we should continue to support them. As that transpires and Iraq picks new leadership things will shift again. One telltale sign the moderates may have had enough is the lack of support for Hamas across the Arab world.

To all those out there who have criticized the United States for not helping to force change in the past, perhaps living with the devil you know looks a little more like good policy than it did a week ago. We can no more create a country of our choosing in the Middle East with our army and money as we can stand by and do nothing. One thing is for certain. At least 1 in 10 of the radicals who head the Middle East to fight come from Europe. They better wake up and help form a collation that works together to determine who we assist and how we help the Middle East through its transition. It’s London and France that are going to get it the worst when these radicals return home. They have been napping for a generation now, and as well as in the Middle East they need to act decisively with Russia as well. The smart money has always been on the Arab Spring taking about 10 to 20 years to work itself out. Thank god for the NSA, we are going to really need them now.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 2, 2015 11:45 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Wow.

We agree on almost everything.

I'm shocked my own self!

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 2, 2015 3:25 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Regurgitating the incompetence of last year serves you little.
Perhaps you should review the wisdom of last year from The Leader of The Free World and the other people who had a clue:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Meanwhile...

EXPERT: Obama's Reconciliation With Iran Helps Fuel Middle East Mayhem


On Friday July 25, as war raged in Gaza, John Kerry delivered a draft ceasefire agreement to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who then presented it to his security cabinet for consideration.

Because the proposal granted Hamas a significant political victory, acquiescing, up front, in a number of the terrorist group’s key demands.

While failing even to mention Israel’s two primary concerns of infiltration tunnels and rockets—the ministers unanimously rejected it.

When unnamed officials leaked the document to Israel’s habitually left-leaning press, along with an account of the government’s thinking, a firestorm of indignation erupted—not, however, at Netanyahu but at the American Secretary of State. The views of one highly respected journalist were typical. Kerry’s proposal, he wrote, “raises serious doubts over his judgment. . . . It’s as if he isn’t the foreign minister of the world’s most powerful nation but an alien who just disembarked his spaceship in the Middle East.”



Read more: http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/iran-at-saban/posts/2014/08/13-doran-ob
ama-middle-east-policy-danger-to-allies#ixzz3ASpTBRVK




Short verion of all this - the admin is utterly incompetent and in way over their heads.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall


Plus, do you still rely so heavily upon your spell checker app that you cannot make a legible topic title?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Puerto Rico - U.S. Virgin Islands
Wed, December 13, 2017 03:39 - 140 posts
The Evidens
Wed, December 13, 2017 03:16 - 736 posts
God bless Alabama
Wed, December 13, 2017 03:09 - 9 posts
Game Companies are Morons.
Wed, December 13, 2017 02:55 - 55 posts
this is what a starving polar bear looks like
Wed, December 13, 2017 01:41 - 6 posts
Male Role Models
Wed, December 13, 2017 01:38 - 118 posts
Accusing Someone You Disagree With Of Being A Russian Troll Is Admitting You Have No Argument
Wed, December 13, 2017 01:30 - 110 posts
What about North Korea?
Tue, December 12, 2017 23:15 - 36 posts
Dow @ 20K. Time to jump off!
Tue, December 12, 2017 20:39 - 125 posts
Lynch. Comey. Dirty Debbie. Hillary. The FBI-DNC link, and the DOJ, again. It's one giant deep state clusterfvck
Tue, December 12, 2017 16:57 - 68 posts
Putin Orders Withdrawal Of Russian Troops During Surprise Syria Visit
Tue, December 12, 2017 14:52 - 4 posts
Trump's Swamp Thing
Tue, December 12, 2017 14:46 - 20 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL