REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

GOP House can't claim to speak for America

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Sunday, October 6, 2013 16:31
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Friday, October 4, 2013 2:32 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

One talking point frequently used by Republicans to justify shutting down the government while trying to overturn the Affordable Care Act is that the House and its Republican majority are more representative of Americans' views than President Barack Obama and the Democratic Senate.

That is preposterous and beside the point.

The ACA is law. End of story. The House Republicans' attempt to nullify a duly-enacted law violates the norms of our constitutional system. It is reckless economically and an egregious affront to our democratic form of government.

House Republicans have every right to press their views in Congress but not to threaten to blow up the U.S. and global economy by shutting down the government and threatening public default

We have elections for all three key players -- the president, the House and the Senate. If Republicans want to change the law, they must do it the old-fashioned way: Persuade the others to accept their position or win control of the White House and Senate.

House Republicans lost ground in the 2012 elections, lost the national vote for the House by over a million votes and retained a majority only because of favorable districting.

Obama won re-election by 3.9 percentage points and got an overwhelming victory in the Electoral College. Senate Democrats retained their majority despite having to defend more than twice as many seats as the Republicans.

House Republicans represent a distinct minority of public sentiment. They carelessly generalize from the echo chambers of their safe districts to the national electorate.

Polls show a majority of the public opposed to shutting down the government to kill or amend Obamacare. A majority of Americans also oppose its repeal or defunding.

Moreover, a significant portion of those who don't like the law say it doesn't go far enough.

But public opinion doesn't matter at this point. The Constitution provides for an orderly process of making laws and building agreement between chambers of Congress and branches of government.

Blackmail, extortion, hostage-taking and brinksmanship are the tools of terrorists, not legislators. http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/04/opinion/mann-shutdown-congress/index.htm
l?hpt=hp_t4


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Friday, October 4, 2013 2:43 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...







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Friday, October 4, 2013 3:54 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
The ACA is law. End of story. The House Republicans' attempt to nullify a duly-enacted law violates the norms of our constitutional system. It is reckless economically and an egregious affront to our democratic form of government.


It is the law of the land...but hardly the end of the story. You see, the ENTIRE Affordable Care Act was enacted by Congress, signed by the President, and upheld by the Supreme Court. This includes those parts the President has chosen to delay or ignore by his selective and arbitray issuing of exemptions to unions and businesses that support his Party as well as the President's unilateral delay of large portions of the bill such as the employer mandate.

Also, many things are the law of the land until they are not. Slavery, segregation, compulsory military service, etc. If Democrats respected the 'law of the land' we'd be a land of outlawed abortions and no gay marriage anywhere. Oh, and no drinking allowed...cause it was the law of the land. Laws can change, especially when they don't work.

As for the shutdown...President Obama won the election running in part at least on Obamacare. People should accept that fact and respect that he has a mandate to enact it as best he can.

Likewise at the exact same moment and in the same election 234 Republicans in the House were also reelected, most if not all promising to reduce, replace, or eliminate Obamacare and people need to accept that fact and respect that they have a mandate to eliminate or modify Obamacare as best they can.

In other words this impass was the fight the American people chose to have in 2012 by choosing divided govt largly on this issue. Lets have the fight now and be done with it. Oh, and the next fight is over spending and it starts in about 2 weeks.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Friday, October 4, 2013 4:47 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:

In other words this impass was the fight the American people chose to have in 2012 by choosing divided govt largly on this issue.



Bullshit. Its what a minority chose. The vast *majority* rejected the GOP.

Yes, many republicans were re-elected, mostly to gerrymandered districts. The party as a whole was trounced.

Numbers don't lie - lawyers do.



"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, October 4, 2013 6:29 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The vast majority of Americans do not want the product being shoved up our collective asses by this administration.

More and more are seeing how insanely destructive this bill ( i'll never call it a law, get over it ) is to our economy.

It will be repealed.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, October 4, 2013 9:39 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The vast majority of Americans...l


Neither side can claim a vast majority and both sides have a claim to a mandate. That's the result of a split election result. The difference is 2% more or less out of 125 million voters.

I would argue that the impasse is the result of neither party being in the minority. Until the American people make up their mind, we get what we pay for.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Saturday, October 5, 2013 9:44 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Unfortunately, and let me word it carefully lest it end up in his signature, I am forced to agree with some of what the previous poster wrote.


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Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:59 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
I would argue that the impasse is the result of neither party being in the minority.

I would argue that John Boehner and his leadership team have no real idea how to resolve the fiscal showdown.

They are only trying to survive another day, hoping to maintain unity as long as possible so that when the Republican position collapses, they can capitulate on two issues at once — financing the government and raising the debt ceiling — and head off any internal party backlash against Boehner.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, October 5, 2013 12:51 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quite possibly a very astute analysis, Second. Poor Boehner's sure been screwed and unable to control his party, I've felt sorry for him more than once.


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Sunday, October 6, 2013 3:59 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


How do you explain that it's working in Massachusetts, or that Kentucky is going full steam ahead after having a 6 month study by Price Waterhouse?

In Mass, it was implemented by a conservative republican, you may have heard of him, Romney, he ran partly on this issue and was soundly trounced. That was a mandate by the people, who happened to be Americans. Remember voting? So that means, no matter how you or anyone spins it, the American people chose the president to continue as Head of the Country and backed his goals. Which includes the ACA, or as you put it Obamacare.

By the way, when Romney proposed the ACA in Mass, he was praised by democrats such as Ted Kennedy, for implementing health care reform. The president used his model as the basis for the national ACA and even recruited Romney's top advisors. So what's different?

Here's an excerpt regarding Employer Requirements:

EMPLOYER REQUIREMENTS UNDER MASSACHUSETTS LAW

"Current Massachusetts law requires employers with 11 or more full-time equivalent employees (FTE) to make a “fair and reasonable” contribution to their employees’ health insurance or pay a Fair Share Contribution (FSC) of up to $295 per employee per year to the state. “Fair and reasonable” is determined by the following requirements:
1.
Percentage of Full-Time Employees Enrolled: At least 25% of full-time employees are enrolled in the employer’s health insurance plan, and the employer is making a financial contribution to that plan.
2.
Premium Contribution Standard: The employer provides at least 33% of the premium cost of the individual health insurance plan offered to full-time employees.
Employers with 50 or fewer FTEs need meet only one of these requirements to avoid an annual assessment of up to $295 per employee. Employers with 51 or more FTEs need to meet both requirements or have at least 75% of full-time employees enrolled in the employer’s health insurance plan.1 The FSC requirement currently generates approximately $18 million in annual revenue for Massachusetts."

Hmmmmm, that sounds a lot like forced enrollment, doesn't it. Yet, it's been state law since 2006. Massachusetts is still there last I looked and the ACA has not yet been repealed, as far as I know. Oh, and another thing, NO DEATH PANELS!

I got this from the MassHealth website:

"All the above mentioned populations will be eligible for new
programs under the ACA with similar or richer benefits as
compared with the benefits they receive today."

"With similar or richer benefits"

So please, tell me again how the ACA is bad for America, when it is alive and well and thriving in Mass. Go ahead, explain that!

I'll wait...................


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The vast majority of Americans do not want the product being shoved up our collective asses by this administration.

More and more are seeing how insanely destructive this bill ( i'll never call it a law, get over it ) is to our economy.

It will be repealed.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall


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Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:31 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Shiny, darlin', 'yer talkin' to RAP, remember? Are you actually, seriously, asking him to answer real, valid questions or make some kind of argument for his position? You're asking him to EXPLAIN his stance?

Better gird your loins for a rant about "partisan temper tantrums", "Kool-Aid", how stupid/delusional you are, how you're ignoring the points, off on a tangent, etc., etc., 'cuz it's comin' at 'ya, quicker'n shit...



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