REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

16% of US science teachers are creationists

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 03:00
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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:45 AM

MAL4PREZ


It helps to know the definition of dark matter, since it is much less mysterious than the name would suggest. It simply is matter that we can't see.

The observed rotation rate of galaxies cannot be explained by the amount of matter we can see. Add up all the visible stars, dust, etc in a galaxy, and calculate the gravitational force from this visible matter and see if it can make the outer edge spin as fast as it does. (This is all first year physics stuff btw. Kinda cool that basic principles yield such a crazy result!) The matter we see cannot cause such fast rotation. There must be something in galaxies which does not emit light (dark) but has mass (matter).

Sure, we don't know that dark matter actually is, and there are strange theories out there from MACHOS to WiMPS. But the fact remains - galaxies contain matter that we can't see. Hence, dark matter. It exists, and the basic definition of it really isn't that complicated.

Anthony - well said re science and religion!

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:46 AM

MAL4PREZ


double double

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:53 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

It exists


Hello,

Toil and trouble. ;-)

All of the available evidence suggests its existence.

I think there may be one or more competing theories, though? Not in wide acceptance. Quantum Gravity, I think? Not sure what it all means.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:35 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Quote:

It exists


Hello,

Toil and trouble. ;-)

All of the available evidence suggests its existence.

I think there may be one or more competing theories, though? Not in wide acceptance. Quantum Gravity, I think? Not sure what it all means.



Certainly, there are competing theories, some quite esoteric. What I'm trying to get at is that in principle it's not so complicated. It might simply be lots of dark planets like Jupiter, or burned out stars that don't emit enough light for us to detect them (MACHOs). Or it could be some crazy weird particles (WiMPS) or even some strange property of "empty" space. But I think what happens is the weird theories get talked up because they're weird, and then people who like to view science as a "belief system" point to the bizarreness as some indication that dark matter is a crazy fever dream with no evidence.

Not so. The evidence is quite straightforward. Something we can't see is exerting a gravitational force in the universe. We don't know what it is, so we call it dark matter.

I was just slightly involved in a MACHO research project, which is the extent of my practical knowledge of this. What I think would be cool though, is if the dark matter effect were some kind of property of space, and somehow related to Hubble's expansion. I can't explain how that would work, because I really have no idea, but it seems like it'd be cool. And somehow logical.

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 12:25 PM

LILI

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.


Made me think of this:




Facts are stubborn things.

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:41 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So hey little Rappy, do you want to keep running away from the threads where you're HI-lariously wrong?

Carter raised taxes?
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=52174

how Chicago is SO VIOLENT and it's ALL the fault of democrats organizing communities?
The fruits of community organizing
http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=52073
46 Hurt, 8 Killed in Violent Chicago Weekend ( Not recycling Memorial Day Weekend story )
http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=52199

how it is that you mistake a MICHIGAN lawmaker for a member of Congress and THEN claim that Congress has been around 225 years!!?
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=52256&p=2
The Congress somehow manages to survive some 225 years w/ out the word 'vagina' uttered on the floor, or in the records, and NOW it's a terrible affront to women to ask for some measure of decency and decorum?

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:52 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Thank you BDN

I think we do in fact view this the same way....

Forgive me if I'm putting words in your own mouth, but given the context you put it in, I'd like to further explain where I'm coming from......


Religious people think.... "Wow... there's a lot in the world that can't be explained. Since there is a 2,000 year old book out there that explains it, and my parents believed in it, I will blindly have faith that whatever "bald spots" it covers are true just because".

Science people think... "Wow... as far as we've gotten today, there's a lot in the Universe that can't be explained. We have theories everywhere, but how do we make them cohesive and not fight against one another? Ahhhhhhhh! Dark Matter!!!!

The Ultimate placeholder!

The Ultimate Deus Ex Machina!"




May I submit that Sciences' "Dark Matter" IS Religions "God"......

Nothing more, and nothing less than a convenient "place holder" to explain away all that can't be explained until something better comes up.



Hell... I'm open enough minded to believe that Dark Matter and God both exist and that they're both the same "thing".....

Find any yahoo on either "side" willing to admit that is a possibility.






In the "North", They pondered the same questions about the "bald spots".......


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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:10 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

May I submit that Sciences' "Dark Matter" IS Religions "God"......


Hello,

I don't think they are quite comperable, and I'll tell you why.

No amount of new evidence or information will cause God to be removed or replaced. It is in the nature of religions (those where God is featured) to make the questioning of God a Bad Thing.

However, new evidence and information can cause Dark Matter to be removed or replaced. It is in the nature of science to accept the questioning of assumptions.

Science is the process of seeking answers. There is often a hope that the answers found will help solve problems, though science itself is merely a process for understanding the universe.

Religion (at least those centering on a God) is the process of believing an answer that has already been given, and trusting in that answer to solve problems. There is no quest to understand the universe in religion, only a quest to follow the will of the creator. This will is usually outlined in an immutable document.

I think there is more room for growth and change in Science. It's Searching versus Believing, to my mind. I say this as someone who believes (religion) but refuses to stop searching (science.)

--Anthony





Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:24 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Hey Anthony....

You're right, and you're wrong.....

Ask any "Old Testiment" believers what they think about "New Testiment" believers.....

My dad was Agnostic and my mom was a "twice a year" Catholic. I grew up celebrating the good ending to Footloose. The Simpsons' Ned Flanders would consider the ending to Footloose a porno movie.

God has ALWAYS evolved..... just ask the Lent practitioners who eat Fish on Fridays.....

Old Testiment God would have thrown a lightning bolt up their ass for that....



Most of your observations otherwise, if not all of them, I either agree with fully or contemplate all the time on. I have no answers, nor will I EVER have any answers that would convince anyone but myself to believe differently. I'm an Agnostic, like my father, but I truly want to believe that there is a reason for all of this and there is an underlying excuse for how horrible people in general are.

We're supposed to be sentient beings, no matter if we were "made" or just an accident over billions of years, but here we are......

We suck....

Humans suck...

We are the worst thing that has ever happened to this planet, and "Dark Matter" forbid us to ever find a way to colonize our shit on other planets.




I'm sure I sound crazy here, but I really hope that we're living in a world where all the 6 billion people who were neither rightous enough to find Nirvana nor depraved enough to find Hades are just floating here in limbo. To us, it seems like life as it should be, but for all of us here, it's our final test.....

What will we make of it?

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:38 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Religious people think.... "Wow... there's a lot in the world that can't be explained. Since there is a 2,000 year old book out there that explains it, and my parents believed in it, I will blindly have faith that whatever "bald spots" it covers are true just because".

Science people think... "Wow... as far as we've gotten today, there's a lot in the Universe that can't be explained. We have theories everywhere, but how do we make them cohesive and not fight against one another? Ahhhhhhhh! Dark Matter!!!!



And then Jack thinks... Oh, wait. No, he really doesn't. Jack has decided that thinking big thoughts makes his brain hurt, so he doesn't think, he drinks. Yes, he's really advancing humanity, isn't he?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:40 PM

MAL4PREZ


six - did you read my post? There is nothing religious or belief-based about dark matter. It is a logical theory based on a very straight-forward observation of reality. The fact that it is incompletely understood does not make it a matter of faith. There is something out there exerting a gravitational force, but we can't see it because our "eyes" are limited right now. Not long ago we couldn't detect or understand electrons, but they still existed. They weren't god. They were still just electrons.

Such is dark matter. Someday we'll have better "eyesight" and we'll know what it actually is. It may require a shift in our fundamental understanding of things, but that's not bad. In fact, that's the whole beauty of science. We don't need to cling to any kind of doctrine, and we don't need some mythological robed figure to tell us what to think. We will figure out The Truth by continuing to observe reality with as unbiased a view as we can, and we'll be willing to let go of ideas that don't match our observations of reality.

No, I don't really expect you to understand. Your posts lately are so bitter and emotion based that I'd wager you and reality are not seeing much of each other these days. Kind of gets in the way of grokking the universe for what it is if you're wearing glasses that are mirrored on the inside. All you seem to be able to see is a reflection of your own bitterness.

Goodness, that's got to be a sad world to live in.

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 6:01 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Logical theory to me equates blind faith.....

One side strives to believe in one thing, and the other, well.... the other.....



What is reality Mal4P?????

For all we know, it could be upturned on us tomorrow.....



As I said before, I know plenty of things that I KNOW about that I'd be happy to help people with here. These are FACTS and I can vouch for them. Not only do I have an arsenal of How To Do things, but I can tell you a lot of How NOT To Do Things along the way.

In the mean time....

There's this meaningless BS going on.....

Even Einstein knew that his theories and ideas were only circumstantial... if His A+B=C theory today worked, there's no accounting for the unforeseen "D" swooping in and bastardizing the whole equation....

Good for him though, for making us all live under the constant threat of Nuclear skin cancer for the rest of humanities life. Glad he straightened that out for us. Thanks Einstein. Thanks Science.

I just hope that "D" swoops in someday and makes his reciepie for a bomb do nothing but grow flowers when it explodes.








And as for the rest, if there is a god, what makes you think I'd mindlessly bow to him?

I gave up the best job I ever had by picking too many battles and fighting for my friends and co-workers through two buy-outs. I was single and just saving money..... Most of the issues I couldn't care two shits about, but my "work family" was struggling with the changes. In the end, I was a "bad apple" and tossed aside. To this day, they still envy me for not NEEDING that job........

Job was only beholden to God when he actively made a point to Satan that somebody with nothing will be the most faithful......

I say, bring it.... oh, robed and bearded figure..... make an example of me!!!!!



When he tells me that the people I have known and loved for more waking hours than sleeping hours over the last 4 years will not be able to take care of themselves anymore, I'll then tell God to go fuck himself in the ass.



Of course that will never happen.....

But I took an "American Government" course back when I was 20 and it was all bullshit..... I paid my good money to get a course in how American Government worked, and all I got was a full-time advertisement for Democrat politics by a tenured teacher who made no small attempt to even hide how much he hated Republicans.....

Maybe that's my biggest reason for even posting here....

If that single teacher is the exception to the rule that I've been basing my ideas off of all other union teachers off of for the last 10 years, that's my bad..... I just don't believe it since 90% of the rich white elitists graduate with near zero college debt and go on to preach the government is good line....


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
six - did you read my post? There is nothing religious or belief-based about dark matter. It is a logical theory based on a very straight-forward observation of reality. The fact that it is incompletely understood does not make it a matter of faith. There is something out there exerting a gravitational force, but we can't see it because our "eyes" are limited right now. Not long ago we couldn't detect or understand electrons, but they still existed. They weren't god. They were still just electrons.

Such is dark matter. Someday we'll have better "eyesight" and we'll know what it actually is. It may require a shift in our fundamental understanding of things, but that's not bad. In fact, that's the whole beauty of science. We don't need to cling to any kind of doctrine, and we don't need some mythological robed figure to tell us what to think. We will figure out The Truth by continuing to observe reality with as unbiased a view as we can, and we'll be willing to let go of ideas that don't match our observations of reality.

No, I don't really expect you to understand. Your posts lately are so bitter and emotion based that I'd wager you and reality are not seeing much of each other these days. Kind of gets in the way of grokking the universe for what it is if you're wearing glasses that are mirrored on the inside. All you seem to be able to see is a reflection of your own bitterness.

Goodness, that's got to be a sad world to live in.




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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 4:45 AM

STORYMARK


Golly, another rant about his job status, tied to some borderline batshit crazy notions.

Do you use a form for your posts these days, Jack?

You're welcome to equate logic with "blind faith" in your mind if you so choose. But don't be surprised when you're laughed at for not getting it by such a wide margin.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 5:13 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Hey, I got a question: If we start teaching creationism/intelligent design (after all, the Judeo-Christian theory), don't we have to start teaching OTHER religious theories of creation also?

I'm not sure what Buddhists, Confucians, or other current religions believe on the subject, but I do remember being taught, as literature, the Greek/Roman version, and the Norse. Whole lotta those ancient "primitive" religions had a grumpy old guy who lived on a mountain, threw lightning bolts, split himself in two, went to war with himself, created the Earth as an egg, watermellon or pumpkin, then hatched man out of it, created woman, had a big flood, established good and evil.

Don't they ALL deserve equal time, if we accept creationism as a valid theory? If not, why not? Just because the J/C's got the votes?

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 7:31 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Golly, another rant about his job status, tied to some borderline batshit crazy notions.

Do you use a form for your posts these days, Jack?

You're welcome to equate logic with "blind faith" in your mind if you so choose. But don't be surprised when you're laughed at for not getting it by such a wide margin.


"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"




Well, if he's not telling you about his awesome house or his credit score, really all he's got left to brag about are his trips to the glory hole, his great abs, and his giant pecs.

Hey, I may have just found that thing that Jack can't face about himself that forces him to get shitfaced drunk every night.

(That's not a homophobic comment, Jack; I accept you for who and what you are. I just wonder why you can't accept yourself.)



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:36 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Don't they ALL deserve equal time


Hello,

I think so, just not in science class. Science class is about science.

The other stuff can be covered in philosophy, world history, sociology, or any number of other categories.

I actually used to really enjoy all the various religions we were exposed to in my history class, during the time we were studying the history of various cultures. (Religion is often an important key to understanding a civilization.)

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Thursday, June 21, 2012 3:07 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Golly, another rant about his job status, tied to some borderline batshit crazy notions.

Do you use a form for your posts these days, Jack?

You're welcome to equate logic with "blind faith" in your mind if you so choose. But don't be surprised when you're laughed at for not getting it by such a wide margin.


"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"




Well, if he's not telling you about his awesome house or his credit score, really all he's got left to brag about are his trips to the glory hole, his great abs, and his giant pecs.

Hey, I may have just found that thing that Jack can't face about himself that forces him to get shitfaced drunk every night.

(That's not a homophobic comment, Jack; I accept you for who and what you are. I just wonder why you can't accept yourself.)



Yep, I'm gay... you got me figured out Kwick. Man..... why didn't I think about that before!!!!!!

Thank you Kwick! Now I can finally quit drinking and with that saved money I can buy some leather assless chaps and with this new outlet for my oral fixation I can give up smoking altogether too!

If only it were that easy man...

I've got problems, that much is for sure but, sadly, barking up the tree of my sexuality isn't going to help me get to the bottom of them.

Any other theories?



And yes, my paid for house is awesome and my credit score is awesome.... but my pecs are no more than passable these days, and I'm sure that my six-pack is still somewhere under the 15lbs of beer fat.


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Thursday, June 21, 2012 3:46 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Now I can finally quit drinking and with that saved money I can buy some leather assless chaps and with this new outlet for my oral fixation I can give up smoking altogether too!



All chaps are assless...that is all.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, June 21, 2012 3:51 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Now I can finally quit drinking and with that saved money I can buy some leather assless chaps and with this new outlet for my oral fixation I can give up smoking altogether too!



All chaps are assless...that is all.



Thanks Girlfriend! (And I won't even ask you how you know that Nick)

See Kwick!

Learning something new about this lifestyle everyday, Sister!

Maybe I can even kick my addiction to beef after I get my fill of this brand new world of protein intake?????




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Thursday, June 21, 2012 4:45 AM

MAL4PREZ


Six: Reality is what we observe. What we REALLY observe, not the few strange little twisted trickles that manage to seep through that seriously self-focused filter you've got wrapped around your head. I mean, really? Yet another rant about your trials? Sorry, your troubles have no bearing on what defines science, and moves this conversation exactly no where. What is the point of trying to talk reality with you when all you see is "ME ME ME ME ME"?

Do you read your posts? I admit, I don't get through them anymore. I gave up after one of your Obama rants a few weeks ago that started with one half-assed misrepresented bit of news then spiraled into a bitter exposition of your deep hated. Basically, you were saying that Obama is bad because you hate him so much. (Probably, posts like that, and the above, are what happens when you're in your cups.)

NewOld: of course not all half-assed ideas of creation belong in science class. It does no good to compound a mistake by making lots more. I do see what you are getting at. Of course, the zealot religious people won't get it. One thing I've learned from RWED is that True Believers absolutely cannot apply logic in this way. They are so stuck in believing their God to be the Truth that they cannot draw parallels between themselves and other belief systems. They cannot draw a line with all belief systems on one side and observation-based science on the other. In their logic, it is only the Right (themselves) and the Wrong (everyone else). So to them only ID should be taught because only ID is the Truth. And all that evidence showing that ID is wrong? Well...

This reminds me of a long ago conversation on RWED about evolution, and I'm still bummed that a particular religious poster left in the middle of it. We got to the point where I asked how he explained all those fossils in museums around the world, like the fossils that show gradual changes as a species evolves. I still really want to know where he thinks those come from. Does he think that scientists sit in their basements, making bones out of paper mache? How else can he explain their existence, if he thinks evolution is completely false?

I don't understand how people live in this kind of denial. Perhaps they just don't let themselves think about it. Maybe that's part of why this poster left - he just couldn't let himself think about that question too deeply.

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Thursday, June 21, 2012 5:01 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Actually, NewOld, that's an excellent question! Of course, given this is a "Christian nation", the creationists would dismiss such a concept, but wouldn't it be fun to compare some of the other religions' beliefs...it would certainly show how ridiculous they ALL are, no offense intended to any creationists.

For example, one of the Hindu beliefs is thatitstarted with the sacrifice of the primal man, named Purusa. His body was the entire universe. The lower quarter of his body became the earth; the rest became the heavens. The various castes of humans came from parts of Purusa's body: his arms became the warriors; his legs the commoners, and his feet the serfs.

As to Buddhism, it's a long and complex explanation, but the simple version is that our world is created by awareness - the awareness of the beings that inhabit it. Evolution only gives a kind of history of how that illusion unfolds. (For the longer version: "The Buddhist view is that everything emanates from the Primordial expanse of Openness Clarity Sensitivity and is illusionlike- never really coming into existence, but the illusion is created by infinite intricate connections that are not anywhere and not in time. Time and space are part of the illusion that is emanating from that Primordial expanse". See what I mean?) There are others who believe in a kalpa ("cycle") of beginning; by beings who populated the universe in the previous kalpa are reborn; eventually, the universe dissolves; all living creatures return to the soul life, and the cycle repeats.

Even more interesting, there are differences WITHIN THE CHRISTIAN FAITH! Evangelicals and Catholics, of course, believe in Creationism. Yet Roman Catholic parochial schools have taught the theory of evolution as a probable fact for many decades. Some Protestan denominations have theistic evolution (a.k.a. called "process creation", or "multiple creation".) In this belief system, God originally created the universe. Later, God used evolution as the technique by which new species develop (is that "Intelligent Design?"). Mormons are straight Creationists (Bruce R. McConkie asked how could a Mormon obtain "comfort in the theoretical postulates that mortal life began in the scum of the sea..."). So in fairness we should be teaching ALL of those, even if only Christianity is accepted.

Quite a conundrum, if it were a matter of logic. Of course, it's anything BUT that...


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Thursday, June 21, 2012 5:35 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

As a Christian, I have always found the usual creationist myth to be so limiting and inconsistent. It's much better to imagine it as a loose metaphor designed to impart some kind of idea rather than a literal description of creation.

I much prefer to imagine God as a 'thing' that existed before linear time was a concept, who expanded himself into a universe- creating the laws of physics as we understand them in the very process of his expansion. An entity outside of linear time, he could see and understand the progress of each particle or unit of energy throughout its entire lifecycle, and direct his expansion so precisely as to become the universe he wanted to see. Including all the particles that became Earth and all those particles and processes that became life and all the life that became humans. And because he existed outside of linear time he knows the past and the future as colors on a painting- And because he expanded himself to make the universe, he is everywhere. And in everyone.

The planned expansion may have included the eventual manifestation of entities that would contain a piece of his awareness, be able to examine the world from a different perspective, and communicate his favored concepts and ideas to the rest of himself. Prophets, sons of God, miraculous manifestations of power.

Well, that's how I imagine things. Needless to say I interpret the Bible rather loosely and non-literally. Evolution to me isn't a contradiction of God, but rather a damn impressive example of his power. That he can push a domino at the dawn of time- in a place before time- and have everything fall the way he needed it to fall to create the universe he wanted to manifest.

This is what I imagine when I read, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

--Anthony




Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Thursday, June 21, 2012 7:04 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
I don't understand how people live in this kind of denial. Perhaps they just don't let themselves think about it.


Here is an interesting article called "The Science of Why We Don't Believe Science" that I think a few folks here might enjoy: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/denial-science-chris-moone
y



What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Thursday, June 21, 2012 7:48 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:

This reminds me of a long ago conversation on RWED about evolution, and I'm still bummed that a particular religious poster left in the middle of it. We got to the point where I asked how he explained all those fossils in museums around the world, like the fossils that show gradual changes as a species evolves. I still really want to know where he thinks those come from. Does he think that scientists sit in their basements, making bones out of paper mache? How else can he explain their existence, if he thinks evolution is completely false?

I don't understand how people live in this kind of denial. Perhaps they just don't let themselves think about it. Maybe that's part of why this poster left - he just couldn't let himself think about that question too deeply.




That was AntiMason, wasn't it? Yeah, that guy was a gem. And not the kind that's created over millions of years by heat and pressure, either. ;)


What really boggles my mind is how many of those creationists and young earthers are in the oil business. Where exactly do they think all that oil came from? Is it just God's Miracle Juice™? Do they imagine that their god just miracled that shit into the ground to make them rich?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, June 21, 2012 8:02 AM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE


Fascinating article PR, u think they used RWED as a test study?

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Thursday, June 21, 2012 8:20 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Here is an interesting article called "The Science of Why We Don't Believe Science" that I think a few folks here might enjoy: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/denial-science-chris-moone
y




Good article, PR. for those who don't want to read the whole thing, here's a tidbit from page 1.

It's a "basic human survival skill," explains political scientist Arthur Lupia of the University of Michigan. We push threatening information away; we pull friendly information close. We apply fight-or-flight reflexes not only to predators, but to data itself.

We're not driven only by emotions, of course—we also reason, deliberate. But reasoning comes later, works slower—and even then, it doesn't take place in an emotional vacuum. Rather, our quick-fire emotions can set us on a course of thinking that's highly biased, especially on topics we care a great deal about.

Consider a person who has heard about a scientific discovery that deeply challenges her belief in divine creation—a new hominid, say, that confirms our evolutionary origins. What happens next, explains political scientist Charles Taber of Stony Brook University, is a subconscious negative response to the new information—and that response, in turn, guides the type of memories and associations formed in the conscious mind. "They retrieve thoughts that are consistent with their previous beliefs," says Taber, "and that will lead them to build an argument and challenge what they're hearing."


I have to say, this is bang-on what I've observed. So maybe I'm emotionally pre-determined to accept it.

Off to read the rest...

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Thursday, June 21, 2012 8:31 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
That was AntiMason, wasn't it? Yeah, that guy was a gem. And not the kind that's created over millions of years by heat and pressure, either. ;)

You're right - antimason was the center of that particular debate. I remember now that he brought up the same anti-evolution lame arguments a year or so later, and when I linked to the old thread and the old questions he promptly disappeared again. Go figure!

But I was actually feeling sad about Causal leaving. Nice, rational, interesting person. And yet, when God came up for discussion and wasn't treated as a worship-worthy truth, but a theory to be questioned, this big emotional wall came up. He could not handle the questions that were asked, so he left.

I've come to realize my own bias on the matter: I view most religion as indoctrination. Not the kind of thing Anthony posted above, which I think is a lovely way to view the universe (though it's not my own take.) It's nice that it's uplifting, but leaves him open to questions and new ideas. The bad type of religious training gives itself away quickly: can it handle being challenged? Or does that emotional denial come up?

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Friday, June 22, 2012 4:50 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Six: Reality is what we observe. What we REALLY observe, not the few strange little twisted trickles that manage to seep through that seriously self-focused filter you've got wrapped around your head. I mean, really? Yet another rant about your trials? Sorry, your troubles have no bearing on what defines science, and moves this conversation exactly no where. What is the point of trying to talk reality with you when all you see is "ME ME ME ME ME"?

Do you read your posts? I admit, I don't get through them anymore. I gave up after one of your Obama rants a few weeks ago that started with one half-assed misrepresented bit of news then spiraled into a bitter exposition of your deep hated. Basically, you were saying that Obama is bad because you hate him so much. (Probably, posts like that, and the above, are what happens when you're in your cups.)



This isn't 4 years of this BS... but 12 years of it.

I posted just as much about how I HATED GWB as well.... get over yourself about that.

I could be completely sober and say that Obama was our worst president ever, and GWB is a very close second.....

The only reason Jimmy Carter comes in as third is because he never had the balls to be the Wendys that overthrew Burger King.....

I hate Obama

I hate GWB

If I wasn't shitting diapers when I was born, I would say the same about Carter.....


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Friday, June 22, 2012 7:12 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Perhaps they just don't let themselves think about it.
Yup, that's pretty much how I view organized religion, as a way to blindly accept what one is told without having to think about it and face the possible dichotomies. And yup,
Quote:

I view most religion as indoctrination
That's what indoctrination is, brainwashing people into accepting whatever they're "fed".

I pretty much share your feelings about Six; I rarely read his posts anymore. Too much over-the-top craziness, repeated personal exposition of how he's so great, and blind hatred, not worth my time. Aside from which, given how little we see of Raptor lately, I can't help wondering...

Also, excellent article Rose, thank you. The excerpts Mal4 put up pretty much embody the pertinent statements, and yes, that's what I've observed as well.



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Sunday, June 24, 2012 2:39 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Dude Niki, I totally know where you come from...

Jack is totally out of line fucking his ass with a Romeney crucifix daily because he's a mindless REAGANot....

Seriouslly Niki....

You just don't read my posts because I don't read your BS woman's lib posts by some strap-on;vibrator wearing self-plea surer diatribes as your own words....

If you have words to say to me, I'll read them, as I always do. Forgive me for not reading 3 pages of your bullshit, 3rd party, meaningless, feminist quotes.

Don't put the end of this thread on me....

Put it on whatever mindless, man hating, lesbians you're posting from....

I think you're smarter than that....

Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:

Perhaps they just don't let themselves think about it.
Yup, that's pretty much how I view organized religion, as a way to blindly accept what one is told without having to think about it and face the possible dichotomies. And yup,
Quote:

I view most religion as indoctrination
That's what indoctrination is, brainwashing people into accepting whatever they're "fed".

I pretty much share your feelings about Six; I rarely read his posts anymore. Too much over-the-top craziness, repeated personal exposition of how he's so great, and blind hatred, not worth my time. Aside from which, given how little we see of Raptor lately, I can't help wondering...

Also, excellent article Rose, thank you. The excerpts Mal4 put up pretty much embody the pertinent statements, and yes, that's what I've observed as well.


]


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Sunday, June 24, 2012 4:34 PM

MAL4PREZ


Pathetic. You don't like what someone says, so you call her a lesbian, as if that's grounds for dismissing what she has to say. As if her sexual status, lesbian or not, has anything to do with anything.

You're really pretty sad Six. I hope you find your way, because if you ever had a Way you are far from it right now. You are one desperately lost lamb. May the Powers save you from yourself.

Once you've slept it off, that is.

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Monday, June 25, 2012 7:30 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Uhmmm... Jack?

You know how you got sand in your pussy about not wanting personal stuff dragged from one thread to another?


You're doing it. You're treating this like it's your own personal "Let's Offend Niki" thread. I thought you thought you were above such things.

Niki agrees with you. That doesn't make her a lesbian or a dyke, or anything else, except someone who disagrees with you (and is willing to put up facts and figures to show why).

Similarly, even *IF* she were a lesbian, that doesn't render her opinions null and void, does it? Are you advocating that gay and bisexual people SHOULD be treated as second-class citizens and have fewer rights?





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Monday, June 25, 2012 8:52 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


But you are more than okay with several posters calling Jack a pathetic, drunk, sockpuppet?
RWED, where hypocrisy knows no bounds.

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Monday, June 25, 2012 10:04 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Actually Kwick, I never called her a lesbian... not even once.....

I just said that her posts are derived from man-hating lesbian posters with biased daddy issues, which is true.

From our history of discussions, Niki is a proud hetro-sexual who has "beaten the curve" and remains married in her silver-to-golden years.

We live in a world now that (Western) "men", through science, aren't needed other than being milked for child creation. It's a sad fact, but it's true. Once the idiots in the Middle East are 2 generations indoctrinated by MTV soft core porn and no longer wish to die by fire in the name of Allah and the 72 virgins that await them in death, the male-female "war" is over.

That IS the world we're living in. Only God, if there is one, can judge us after the fact. Don't look at me to be the "John Conner" here. I'll be the first to line up for a woman dominated world. It's what I dreamed and fantasized about since I was 8, and I can even post a youtube timeline of all of the cartoons and tv shows that poured that idea in my head up until now.

At the same time though, I just really think it's amusing that I'm saying this on the very year in a public forum that the Aztec's calendar "ran out"....


Here's jack, slavishly eating twat while having one eye to the sky looking for evidence of "The Rapture".

I'm quite sure that I'd still be here when and if it happens. Just wondering how many friends and family I'd be missing then....

Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Uhmmm... Jack?

You know how you got sand in your pussy about not wanting personal stuff dragged from one thread to another?


You're doing it. You're treating this like it's your own personal "Let's Offend Niki" thread. I thought you thought you were above such things.

Niki agrees with you. That doesn't make her a lesbian or a dyke, or anything else, except someone who disagrees with you (and is willing to put up facts and figures to show why).

Similarly, even *IF* she were a lesbian, that doesn't render her opinions null and void, does it? Are you advocating that gay and bisexual people SHOULD be treated as second-class citizens and have fewer rights?





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy




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Monday, June 25, 2012 10:34 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


FOR RIONAIRE

Evolution of one 'type' of organism into another 'type' in the laboratory:


Multicellular Life Evolves in Lab


More than 500 million years ago, single-celled organisms on the Earth’s surface began forming multicellular clusters that ultimately became plants and animals. Just how that happened is a question that has eluded evolutionary biologists.



But scientists in the Univ. of Minnesota’s College of Biological Sciences have replicated that key step in the laboratory using natural selection and common brewer’s yeast, which are single-celled organisms. The yeast “evolved” into multicellular clusters that work together cooperatively, reproduce and adapt to their environment – in essence, precursors to life on Earth as it is today.

Their achievement is published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

It all started about two years ago with a casual comment over coffee that bridging the famous multi-cellularity gap would be “just about the coolest thing we could do,” recall postdoctoral researcher Will Ratcliff and associate professor Michael Travisano, both from the Department of Ecology, Evolution and Behavior.

So they decided to give it a try. Then came the big surprise. It wasn’t actually that difficult. Using yeast cells, culture media and a centrifuge, it only took them one experiment conducted over about 60 days, says Travisano, who is senior author on the PNAS paper.

“I don’t think anyone had ever tried it before,” says lead author Ratcliff. “There aren’t many scientists doing experimental evolution, and they’re trying to answer questions about evolution, not recreate it.”

Despite their modesty, the achievement has earned praise and admiration from evolutionary biologists around the world.

“To understand why the world is full of plants and animals, including humans, we need to know how one-celled organisms made the switch to living as a group, as multicelled organisms,” says Sam Scheiner, program director in the National Science Foundation (NSF)’s Division of Environmental Biology. “This study is the first to experimentally observe that transition, providing a look at an event that took place hundreds of millions of years ago.”

Funding for the research was obtained in February 2011, with coauthors R. Ford Denison and Mark Borrello, adjunct and associate professors, respectively, in the Department of Ecology, Evolution and Behavior.

Ratcliff and Travisano gave the scientific community a glimpse of their discovery at a conference last summer and have subsequently been invited to talk about it at other meetings. The PNAS article represents the first time full details about the research have been disclosed. “The article provides us with the first opportunity to show the breadth of evolutionary change that we’ve observed,” Travisano says.

In essence, here’s how the experiments worked. The two chose brewer’s yeast or Saccharomyces cerevisiae, a species of yeast used since ancient times to make bread and beer, because it is abundant in nature and grows easily. They added it to a nutrient-rich culture media and allowed the cells to grow for a day in test tubes. Then they used a centrifuge to stratify the contents by weight. As the mixture settled, cell clusters landed on the bottom of the tubes faster because they are heavier. They removed the clusters, transferred them to fresh media, and grew them up again. Sixty cycles later, the clusters – now hundreds of cells – looked roughly like spherical snowflakes.

Analysis showed that the clusters were not just groups of random cells that adhered to each other, but related cells that remained attached following cell division. That was significant because it meant they were genetically similar, which promotes cooperation. When the clusters reached a critical size, some cells essentially committed suicide (apoptosis) to allow offspring to separate. The offspring reproduced only after they attained the size of their parents.

“A cluster alone isn’t multiellular,” Ratcliff says. “But when cells in a cluster cooperate, make sacrifices for the common good, and adapt to change, that’s an evolutionary transition to multicellularity.”

In order for multicellular organisms to form, most cells need to sacrifice their ability to reproduce, an altruistic action that favors the whole but not the individual, Ratcliff says. For example, all cells in the human body are essentially a support system that allows sperm and eggs to pass DNA along to the next generation. Thus, multicellularity is by its nature extremely cooperative. “Some of the best competitors in nature are those that engage in cooperation, and our experiment bears that out,” says Travisano.

Evolutionary biologists have estimated that multicellularity evolved independently in about 25 groups. Travisano and Ratcliff wonder why it didn’t evolve more often in nature, since it’s not that difficult to recreate it in a lab. Considering that trillions of one-celled organisms lived on the Earth for millions of years, it seems as if it should have, Ratcliff says.

Maybe that’s a question they will answer in the future, using the fossil record for thousands of generations of their multicellular clusters, which is stored in a freezer in Travisano’s lab. Since the frozen samples contain multiple lines that independently became multicellular, they can compare them to learn if similar or different mechanisms and genes were responsible in each case, Travisano says.

The research duo’s next steps will be to look at the role of multicellularity in cancer, aging and other critical areas of biology.

“Our multicellular yeast are a valuable resource for investigating a wide variety of medically and biologically important topics,” Travisano says. “Cancer was recently described as a fossil from the origin of multicellularity, which can be directly investigated with the yeast system. Similarly the origins of aging, development, and the evolution of complex morphologies are open to direct experimental investigation that would otherwise be difficult or impossible.”

Travisano joined the College of Biological Sciences faculty in 2007. The multicellularity discovery adds to his record of "firsts" in experimental evolution over the past 25 years. Before joining the Travisano lab group, Ratcliff earned his Ph.D. at the College of Biological Sciences, with Denison as his adviser. Ratcliff has become something of a rock star on the academic conference circuit, and he won the W.D. Hamilton Award for best student presentation at Evolution 2011, the premier conference for evolutionary biologists.

Source: Univ. of Minnesota


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Monday, June 25, 2012 11:10 AM

PENGUIN








King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Monday, June 25, 2012 11:32 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:
But you are more than okay with several posters calling Jack a pathetic, drunk, sockpuppet?
RWED, where hypocrisy knows no bounds.



And you are more than okay with calling me worse than that. BDN, whose hypocrisy knows no bounds.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Monday, June 25, 2012 1:22 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Penguin:





Amen!

And then there's this.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/odd/loch-ness-monster-cited-by-us-schools
-as-evidence-that-evolution-is-myth-1-2373903



There are times I say to myself, "Self," says I, "this cannot possibly be real."

And then I remember that this is "Lousyana" we're talking about.

These are people who still use the old fallback position of "If people descended from apes, why are there still apes?" And I have to answer, "If you descended from your parents, how do you have parents?" They actively believe that family trees cannot branch.

And then I have to remind myself again: This is Lousyana. Their family trees never really did branch out very much.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Monday, June 25, 2012 7:19 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Actually Kwick, I never called her a lesbian... not even once.....

I just said that her posts are derived from man-hating lesbian posters with biased daddy issues, which is true.




Even *IF* that were true, again I have to ask, so fucking what? Is the argument invalid if the original statement came from someone gay?

If so, please go destroy your computer this very second, since Alan Turing was gay.


You have become exactly like PN, only without any supporting evidence.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 1:56 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:


Actually Kwick, I never called her a lesbian... not even once.....

I just said that her posts are derived from man-hating lesbian posters with biased daddy issues, which is true.



From what you've done in RWED lately Six, you are HARDLY one to dismiss anyone because of they might have "issues". (Which she doesn't - your whole premise of coming down on Niki here is laughable. She must have struck a nerve, huh?) But let's look at what you've been posting.

Sixstring the issue king ain't afraid to hijack threads with:
baggage baggage issue baggage
me me me me me

Which is fine if you really need to talk, because you surely are going through a rough patch and could use some help, but coming down on any poster in such a hypocritical misogynistic homophobic bullying way gets you exactly zero empathy from me. And if you don't like being called names, quit so perfectly fitting the bill of an immature, alcoholic, zero common sense asshole. Go back and read your posts again and you'll see what I mean. Nothing but complete self-absorbed asshat-ery.

Yeah, that's harsh. You earned it. Believe it or not, I can be quite friendly, but you'd need to quit acting the way you are to get any friendliness from this quarter.

Kisses.

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 5:08 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I don't have any problem with anyone being gay. I'm the least homophobic person I know.

Now gays with an agenda, specifically female man-hating gays, are another story.

Heterosexual white males have enough laws today doing everything in their power to bring us down. Aside from smokers of any race, sex, religion or creed, we're the most opressed demographic out there in this brave new world (aside from those rich enough to not be affected by affirmative action). We don't need to add to that docket articles written by bull-dyke man-haters becoming "fact" in the American mainstream.



Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:


Actually Kwick, I never called her a lesbian... not even once.....

I just said that her posts are derived from man-hating lesbian posters with biased daddy issues, which is true.




Even *IF* that were true, again I have to ask, so fucking what? Is the argument invalid if the original statement came from someone gay?

If so, please go destroy your computer this very second, since Alan Turing was gay.


You have become exactly like PN, only without any supporting evidence.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy




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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 5:16 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Hey Mal,

I didn't say Niki had any issues. I pointed out that articles she was drawing from were written by women who clearly have man-hating issues.

Aside from Byte, I'm probably the only one here who is really posting about all of the skeletons in my closet. It's actually quite liberating, to be honest. Thanks be to haken for allowing me a place to do such a thing, in a forum of my "peers" who I honestly have quite a bit of respect for, no matter how far right or left they lean.


Go ahead and call me things that I may or may not believe that I am. There's nothing you've "insulted" me with that I haven't wondered if it weren't true. You should probably add crazy to the list as well. I've heard that anyone who wonders if they're crazy actually isn't crazy, so I guess I got that going for me at least.

I love you M4P.

Kisses,
~6

Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:


Actually Kwick, I never called her a lesbian... not even once.....

I just said that her posts are derived from man-hating lesbian posters with biased daddy issues, which is true.



From what you've done in RWED lately Six, you are HARDLY one to dismiss anyone because of they might have "issues". (Which she doesn't - your whole premise of coming down on Niki here is laughable. She must have struck a nerve, huh?) But let's look at what you've been posting.

Sixstring the issue king ain't afraid to hijack threads with:
baggage baggage issue baggage
me me me me me

Which is fine if you really need to talk, because you surely are going through a rough patch and could use some help, but coming down on any poster in such a hypocritical misogynistic homophobic bullying way gets you exactly zero empathy from me. And if you don't like being called names, quit so perfectly fitting the bill of an immature, alcoholic, zero common sense asshole. Go back and read your posts again and you'll see what I mean. Nothing but complete self-absorbed asshat-ery.

Yeah, that's harsh. You earned it. Believe it or not, I can be quite friendly, but you'd need to quit acting the way you are to get any friendliness from this quarter.

Kisses.




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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 5:17 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Since my name came up so much in recent posts, I went back and read Sick's posts since I last posted (well, I skimmed them anyway).



All that from my three sentences about him? Yeah, I must have struck some kind of nerve with my little comments. Man has a talent for being irrelevant and obscene at the same time!

By the way, I'm bisexual. Where does the "women-hating", etc., etc., come from? Another thread about something? Interesting, if mildly so. Mostly, tho', the same I was reading before I "trash canned" his posts. More than anything else, -- irrelevant, repetitive, offensive shit over and over, mixed with some nonsensical "this is the way it is" statements like he's the end-all, be-all of information, which is so far from the truth it's laughable.

Nothing new here. "Better" men than he have gone after me, he just shows he has nothing to say...and says it at great length. Back to ignoring him...

(Thanx for the kind words, guys, you've pretty much got his number, in a nutshell.)


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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 1:03 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Hi Kiki, that to me sounds like a cooperative colony, like an ant colony, as opposed to a single organism of multicelled extraction. But thanks for thinking of me.

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:05 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Now I can finally quit drinking and with that saved money I can buy some leather assless chaps and with this new outlet for my oral fixation I can give up smoking altogether too!



All chaps are assless...that is all.



Thanks Girlfriend! (And I won't even ask you how you know that Nick)

See Kwick!

Learning something new about this lifestyle everyday, Sister!

Maybe I can even kick my addiction to beef after I get my fill of this brand new world of protein intake?????






By "lifestyle" you mean "has seen a western" or "knows what chaps are in the first fucking place".... right??

Otherwise, you might be providing yet more evidence of general ignorance.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 6:09 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Hi Kiki, that to me sounds like a cooperative colony, like an ant colony, as opposed to a single organism of multicelled extraction. But thanks for thinking of me."

Sort of an interesting distinction. What makes a dangerous bacteria, a parasite, or a predator all different? Only size and time. In any case, I'm not sure they are an ant colony, b/c in an ant colony all the 'tissues' - the different ants - are separate and not stuck together. Whereas in a sponge for example, they are stuck together with the different parts doing different things.

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 6:45 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Now I can finally quit drinking and with that saved money I can buy some leather assless chaps and with this new outlet for my oral fixation I can give up smoking altogether too!



All chaps are assless...that is all.



Thanks Girlfriend! (And I won't even ask you how you know that Nick)

See Kwick!

Learning something new about this lifestyle everyday, Sister!

Maybe I can even kick my addiction to beef after I get my fill of this brand new world of protein intake?????






By "lifestyle" you mean "has seen a western" or "knows what chaps are in the first fucking place".... right??




That was freaking epic. Yes, Jack, all chaps are assless, by design. What you wear UNDER THEM decides how much or little of your ass you show. Working cowfolk tend to wear pants under their chaps. Your mileage may vary.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:09 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

What makes any "theory" more important than the other?


see phoenixrose's explanation of theory. In order for it to be a theory, there has to be evidence.


Quote:

In the end, who really gives a flying F?

If dinosaurs of Evolution or dragons of WoW existed, that seems really cool.

If my ancestors were red-assed monkeys that threw shit at each other and fucked any female monkey not already pinned down.... cool...

If the world is only 6,000 years old today and the "bones" buried underneath were just tools of a god to see how we'd react to them..... cool....

In the end, it effects my life no different either way.



Wow. So if you're happy to throw scientific thinking out the door, then you'd be happy to walk out of your second floor window. Gravity is just a theory, right? I read somewhere that some dude with a big S can fly, so maybe that's true for all of us. That would be cool too, I guess...




Quote:


Since Science will NEVER prove or disprove "God", I think it's all the biggest red-herring and BullShit point out there when there are real issues to discuss.



evolution does not discount the existence of all religious thought. There are plenty of people who do not consider the bible to be literal, and to glean teachings from it without buying it all lock stock and barrel. It's only the vociferous religious right who demand that we consider it to be word for word, contradictions and all, true.

OOOps, I see that this discussion has moved on to er....I don't know really...Niki posting rabid man hating vitriol, according to 6 who also believes he is an oppressed minority because he is a white male.

Weird.


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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 1:43 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Odd that Jack thinks minorities are oppressed when he feels like HE is one of the minorities. The way righties go on about how good minorities have it in this country, you'd think they'd be happy to be part of a minority!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 2:58 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

Wow. So if you're happy to throw scientific thinking out the door, then you'd be happy to walk out of your second floor window. Gravity is just a theory, right? I read somewhere that some dude with a big S can fly, so maybe that's true for all of us. That would be cool too, I guess...






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